Pope Francis Dies

[PeterRS]

This is a particularly sad day. I am not a Catholic but i believe Pope Francis was a force for good in our world bedeviled by wars, dictators, self-interested narcissists and all manner of other madness. I recall seeing the excellent movie "The Two Popes" some years ago when it had been suggested that many cardinals wanted Francis, the name he chose, to succeed John Paul II. I believe one reason for concern at the time was the role he had played in the troubles in Argentina. What a huge pity that the world was saddled with the ultra-reactionary Benedict instead of the pastoral Francis! May this most recent Pope rest in peace, and may his Church realise that a return to ultra-conservatism in the choice of his successor would be a dreadful move. Our world desperately needs another Francis, John Paul 1 or John XXIII - and definitely not a Paul VI, John Paul II or Benedict XVI.

[reader]

I, too, am hopeful that the Church will not return to ultra conservative rule. Francis was always concerned with the fate of migrant workers and in last diplomatic meeting reiterated their plight along with peace in Gaza.

During his term, he planned ahead for this day by expanding the College of Cardinals as detailed in this reference from Wikipedia.

Pope Francis (r. 2013–2025) created cardinals at ten consistories held at roughly annual intervals beginning in 2014 and for the last time on 7 December 2024. The cardinals created by Francis include 163 cardinals from 76 countries, 25 of which had never been represented in the College of Cardinals.^[a] His appointments include the first Scandinavian since the Reformation, the first from Goa since an episcopal see was established there in 1533, the first from Latin America's indigenous peoples, the first from India's Dalit community, and the first active head of a religious congregation.

Following the 2024 consistory, 110 of the cardinal electors had been appointed by Francis, 24 by Pope Benedict XVI, and 6 by Pope John Paul II. Each of Francis' consistories has increased the number of cardinal electors from at or less than the set limit of 120 to a number higher than 120, as high as 140 in 2024, surpassing the record 135 set by Pope John Paul II in 2001 and 2003. Since 2 June 2023, two-thirds of the cardinal electors have been cardinals created by Francis.^[3] The December 2024 consistory increased that to about 79%.

Francis shifted membership in the College of Cardinals away from Europe, making it all but certain that the conclave to choose his successor will be the first where Europeans do not account for a majority of electors.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cardinals_created_by_Francis

[PeterRS]

Reading articles about the Pope's death and possible successors, even though Francis had appointed so many new cardinals, it seems he fought the all-powerful Curia for most of his Papacy. He was also someone who frequently made his own decisions without extensive consultations. That might mean there is no group sufficiently loyal to the late Pope strong enough to counter the power of the Curia.

Newsweek states that the betting favourite at 3:1 is presently Cardinal Luis Antonio Tagle of The Philippines. He was a trusted member of Francis' inner circle and aged 67 he will have time on his side to continue Francis' reforms. As an aside, I recall that when I first arrived in Hong Kong, the head of the Church in The Phlippines was Cardinal Sin! 

https://www.newsweek.com/pope-francis-dead-papal-conclave-frontrunners-2035569

[vinapu]

14 hours ago, PeterRS said:

 

Newsweek states that the betting favourite at 3:1 is presently Cardinal Luis Antonio Tagle of The Philippines

there's old saying " one who enters conclave as a pope , leaves it as  cardinal ".

Last time when favorite was elected was back in 1939 with Pius XII chosen. 

[PeterRS]

1 hour ago, vinapu said:

there's old saying " one who enters conclave as a pope , leaves it as  cardinal ".

Last time when favorite was elected was back in 1939 with Pius XII chosen. 

Ha! I recall that John XXIII, as Archbishop of Venice, entered the conclave joyfully certain there was no chance of his becoming Pope! But that conclave was allegedly deadlocked and he emerged as a compromise candidate. He aways cut a very jolly figure!

Was Cardinal Montini also a compromise candidate when he succeeded John XXIII as Pope Paul VI? Although there were a lot of top people in the Church who actively disliked the reforms John XXIII was pushing through especially in calling the Second Vatican Council, it was thought that Montini would continue them. I believe he did to a certain extent, but he had always been a solitary figure and as his papacy continued, he withdrew more into himself. He became much reviled for his encyclical Humanae Vitae in which he affirmed the Church's condemnation of artificial birth control.

Yet he was unable, it seems, to shake off allegations of homosexuality. Although he condemned non-marital sexual relations, the French author Roger Peyrefitte (whose touching book "Special Friendships" about the deep love of two young boys at a Catholic boarding school really first awoke my interest in being gay) wrote about Paul VI's homosexuality in two of his books and later in an interview in a French magazine. Professor Franco Bellegradi, a Vatican insider, had alleged that Cardinal Montini had not only had homosexual affairs whilst serving in Milan, he had a lover who was an actor, Paolo Carlini, and it was because that lover had the first name Paul that he chose Paul for his Papacy. Although as Paul VI he called the allegations "horrible and slanderous insinuations", they later surfaced twice (the latest in 2006) that the Pope had been blackmailed to promote other gay men into positions of power in the Vatican. This is one of the allegations to come out of the VatiLeaks Affair, a report commissioned by Benedict XVI and presented to him in 2013, of the existence of a cabal of homosexual power brokers within the Curia. It has even been alleged in a Vanity Fair article that this was one of the reasons for Benedict XVI resigning. That long article is fascinating and I append it below.

But back to 1978. When the allegations surfaced publicly the Prime Minister Aldo Moro, one of the Pope's closest friends, had been asked to intervene to help stop the rumours. It so happened I was in Rome in May 1978 meeting with a good friend who lived in Italy. We were to be having a very simple dinner at a restaurant on the outskirts of the city where my friend knew the owner, Angela. On the bus we noticed a lot of police sirens, and these continued througout our lovely meal. At the end, Angela refused to accept any payment. All she would say was, "This is a terribly sad day for Italy!" Moro had been kidnapped by the Red Brigades 55 days earlier. The evening we were about to have dinner, Moro's bullet-riddled body had  been found in the trunk of a car. Although the Pope was ill, it is thought the death of this close friend hastened his end. He died just three months later in August.

https://www.vanityfair.com/culture/2013/12/gay-clergy-catholic-church-vatican

[PeterRS]

Does any other image better represent Pope Francis' view on Donald Trump? Notice the distance between the two as well as the facial expressions!

Photo: Evan Vucci: Pool/AP

[macaroni21]

Trump's condolence statement on Truth Social (may God forgive me for even quoting it) was terse to an extent that it seemed forced and insincere. “Rest in peace Pope Francis! May God bless him and all who loved him!”

Whereas other leaders referenced Pope Francis' values, none of that from the orange man.

BTW, anybody watched the film The Conclave? Did you like the twist at the very end?

[a-447]

43 minutes ago, macaroni21 said:

BTW, anybody watched the film The Conclave? Did you like the twist at the very end?

I hated the twist.

It was forced, over-blown and, frankly, ridiculous. Many in the cinema, including me, laughed out loud.

The movie didn't need it.

[kokopelli3]

1 hour ago, macaroni21 said:

Trump's condolence statement on Truth Social (may God forgive me for even quoting it) was terse to an extent that it seemed forced and insincere. “Rest in peace Pope Francis! May God bless him and all who loved him!”

Whereas other leaders referenced Pope Francis' values, none of that from the orange man.

BTW, anybody watched the film The Conclave? Did you like the twist at the very end?

I did see The Conclave but the sound quality was poor and I didn't quite understand what they were saying. One person said the new Pope was a female?

[PeterRS]

2 hours ago, macaroni21 said:

BTW, anybody watched the film The Conclave? Did you like the twist at the very end?

I felt it was forced. On the other hand it was an interesting twist given the Church's views on women. But having a cardinal "in pectore" suddenly turn up for a concave could not happen in the Catholic Church. Cardinals only have the privileges of Cardinals once they are openly declared as such. Having a Cardinal with a diocese such as Afghanistan was also stretching credibility too far.

[a-447]

And now at hear that Trump is going to attend the funeral.

He'll turn it into a farce. He'll make it all about himself, aided by an irresponsible, complicit media.

The funeral will take a back seat to the Trump 'look at me' show.

[vinapu]

4 hours ago, macaroni21 said:

Trump's condolence statement on Truth Social (may God forgive me for even quoting it)

..............................

BTW, anybody watched the film The Conclave? Did you like the twist at the very end?

I wouldn't count on that forgiveness 

...................................

I did, in fact if was on the plane between Bangkok and Narita coming back from my last trip. I should say , while action developed I suspected it will turn kind of like it did but since I'm shy and modest man, far from boasting about anything,  I say nothing.

[vinapu]

25 minutes ago, a-447 said:

And now at hear that Trump is going to attend the funeral.

He'll turn it into a farce. He'll make it all about himself, aided by an irresponsible, complicit media.

The funeral will take a back seat to the Trump 'look at me' show.

lets see, it may be quite opposite to Trump ego being badly hurt by being awarded very scant attention, specially that he is not even a Catholic

[vinapu]

1 hour ago, PeterRS said:

 Having a Cardinal with a diocese such as Afghanistan was also stretching credibility too far.

not really as there's practice in Church to keep dioceses, once established , forever.

I recall from years ago our local bishop when was  appointed it was announced that he was already titular bishop of Leptis Magna , which as everybody but Trump knows,  is pile of Roman rubble   in Libya. By the way,  many scholars , including myself , it's considered best preserved ruin of Roman city. Question is , after recent troubles there , it may no longer be.

[unicorn]

On 4/21/2025 at 4:25 AM, reader said:

.... The cardinals created by Francis include 163 cardinals from 76 countries, 25 of which had never been represented in the College of Cardinals.^[a] ...

Francis was the first pope who earned my respect during my lifetime, and the first to embody Christian ideals. One would think that Francis would only appoint cardinals whose views lined up with his at moving the church along from a reactionary elitist institution to one which embraces all, especially the poor and disadvantaged, but that wasn't necessarily the case. In particular, I hope that Cardinal Peter Erdo isn't elected the next pope. This is from today's New York Times:

"...Cardinal Peter Erdo of Hungary, 72, an expert on canon law, is expected to be a front-runner among cardinals who long for a return to the conservatism of Popes John Paul II and Benedict XVI. John Paul II named the cleric archbishop of Eszterdom-Budapest in 2002, and the following year gave him a cardinal hat, making him — at 50 — the youngest cardinal at the time...". 

[PeterRS]

5 hours ago, unicorn said:

 In particular, I hope that Cardinal Peter Erdo isn't elected the next pope.

It's interesting - at least to me - that there seems a desire to swing back and forth when it comes to electing Popes. I mentioned six in an earlier post. John XXIII, John Paul 1 and Francis were all reformers and pastors. The successors of the first two were the conservatives Paul VI and John Paul II. Had there not been a reaction to Francis due to his time in Argentina, he would probably have followed John Paul II. Instead, the arch-conservative Benedict XVI who had vast Vatican experience topped the poll on he 4th ballot. 

I have also read that in past conclaves the Cardinals preferred older men who would not occupy the Chair of St. Peter for too many years.  So will they want another John Paul II who ruled for 24 years? On the other hand, surely some of them must have at the forefront of their thinking the horrendous sexual abuse scandals all of which occurred under older Popes? A younger Pope might just finally come to some resolution that gets this matter put to bed (sic) in some way.

[PeterRS]

Reverting to the topic of Pope Francis, I think we should remember that one of the reforms he had been working on - whether or not successfully, I do not know - was the Vatican Bank. Formed in 1942 with the declared aim of managing the Church's funds and for charitable works, almost from the get-go it became mired in scandal.

Many will recall that following the sudden death of Pope John Paul 1 - "the smiling Pope" - after only 33 days in the papacy *, all manner of conspiracy theories emerged, many of these made more believable by the circumstances following his death even the possibility that he had been murdered. A cover-up seemed to be going on. One theory suggested he had been so shocked at the corruption, scandal and appalling mismanagement of the Vatican Bank and the losses it had incurred that this spurred his fatal heart attack. On its own, this appears flimsy. Taken along with other scandals at the Vatican, perhaps it was not so.

The point, though, is that the Bank was involved in very shady dealings, with the Mafia lurking in the background. These came to light a few years after John Paul I's death in what became known as the Banco Ambrosiano affair. The Vatican became involved because it held a majority share in the Banco Amrosiano. This bank was accused of illegally chanelling funds out of Italy into shady overseas banks. Its Chairman Roberto Calvi was arrested and sent to jail for 4 years. Released on appeal, he fled Italy. Soon thereafer his lifeless body was found hanging under London's Blackfriars Bridge. Investigation after investigation followed in an attempt to find out the sordid details of what had happened. None was successful.

The Vatican attempted to reform its bank by placing trusted economist/bankers in charge. The first two such appointments were sacked for reasons that have never become clear. Still the scandals would not go away. Amongst others, in 2009 the Vatican Bank was being investigated for money laundering of US$180 million. This problem was fudged by Benedict XVI and landed on the desk of Pope Francis. He fired the Board and replaced it with a truly international Board of Directors. In his book "The Last Supper", which focusses primarily on the murder of Calvi, author Philip Willan touches on the reforms Pope Francis was trying to institute. He adds -

“I don’t doubt, though, that there are powerful forces ranged against the reformists. The recent scandals show how a habit of flouting the law had become deeply ingrained among senior Vatican bureaucrats and their friends . . . A thorough reform of the church’s business culture will not be either easy or quick, but I think Pope Francis and his team are serious about pursuing it.”

The question very few now know is how successful or otherwise the late Pope was in achieving that much needed reform.

https://www.worldfinance.com/banking/a-history-of-corruption-in-the-vatican-bank

* One of the most fascinating books I have read concerns the death of John Paul I and all the shocking mis-steps made by Vatican officials in its wake. "A Thief in the Night: Life and Death in the Vatican" by John Cornwell was a result of the Vatican finally opening its archives nine years later to a respected Catholic historian who, its leaders clearly believed, would finally put to rest all the rumours and conspiracy theories. Cornwell dispels them all but goes on to heap major blame on Vatican officials for willfully ignoring the obvious signs that John Paul 1 was seriously ill many days before his death. He finds that death was a direct result of "sins of omission" by the very people who should have been responsible for his life and health.

[floridarob]

On 4/21/2025 at 11:09 PM, PeterRS said:

Does any other image better represent Pope Francis' view on Donald Trump? Notice the distance between the two as well as the facial expressions!

Photo: Evan Vucci: Pool/AP

And this famous comparison, lol