Let me humiliate you, fuck you, rob you, and rape you. Then you'll help me rule the world. 😲

[stevenkesslar]

I don't get it.   Can anyone explain this to me?

One simple bumper sticker that makes some sense about what Trump is doing is this:  "The whole world against China."

Let's forget about the fact that Republicans, more than Democrats, championed the idea that trade and outsourcing and globalization are inherently good and fair.  Since billionaires like Elon Musk make more money doing it.  Let's also forget that maybe it doesn't make sense to dramatically reverse course after decades of building up China with trade and investment to now say, "Oh, geez.  We fucked up."  

What I really don't get is this.  If we assume the goal of the whole world against China is good, how does Trump plan to get there by humiliating, fucking, robbing, and raping the rest of the world?  Only a pathological narcissist like Trump would decide that bullying is the way to do this.

Jon Stewart recently had a good interview with Oren Cass, who as much as anyone is the intellectual promoting this idea of a new America First conservatism.  Cass is smart and interesting.  As Stewart noted, his first claim to fame was the 2012 Romney campaign.  Wasn't Romney a big promoter of free trade and global capitalism?  Cass thoughtfully ticked off all the arguments that make some sense:  America carries too much of the defense burden for the world, America is getting screwed  by everyone on trade, blah blah blah.   Let's also forget about the fact that all these pro-globalization and pro-China arrangements were put together decades ago by a country called ................... what's it's name?   Oh.  America!  As Cass noted, nations are allowed to change their mind every century or so.

But the core of the debate is that China is rising and has to be outorganized.  Many Democratic foreign policy intellectuals have also been pushing the idea that in a US v. China battle, China is likely to win simply based on size, state-funded innovation, and the hunger of a rising player.  While Biden was getting feeble, lots of foreign policy geeks in his Administration pushed Trump-like ideas for organizing the world against China.  Rahm Emanuel has been bragging that thanks to smart diplomats like him the US had China kind of on the ropes diplomatically as well as militarily.

So now the idea is that the way to build this "everyone but China" alliance is to hurt the economies of all our allies, ask them to pony up lots more for defense, and say nice things about Putin.  Only a narcissist like Trump would believe that if he just appeases Putin, Putin will forget about his strategic interest in allying with China against America and democratic institutions.   After all, democracy is hardly Trump's first love, either.

This seems like a good formula for helping China and Russia win by pissing off every ally we have, and hurting their economies while we insult them.

What am I missing?

 

[Suckrates]

Dont fret Sis, we are ALL missing something, and that something IS how this singular, foolish OLD man is being allowed and enabled to do all these BAD things to Americans AND the World order ?

Perhaps they assume this is the way its SUPPOSED to be now, that Trump can do anything with any consequence but face NO accountability when things go terribly wrong and people are Hurt ?   Because IF Trump was doing things truly wrong and illegal, SURELY people would STOP him, BUT THEY AINT, so Trump must be RIGHT, right ?

It is torturous and tormenting to ME everyday watching the the gall and entitlement of this insane man, and thinking about how HE will be delighted and enriched by watching so many people suffer, and then to still want MORE hurt !  

HIS goal is to be the Worlds RICHEST and most POWERFUL man.   He's not there quite yet, so we have a lot more coming our way.....  How can EVERYBODY in the World be WRONG except Trump ?    And now, if WE dont embrace HIS mindset,  we are destined for gulags in El Salvador, with no questions asked and without recourse.

So, to your question, NO I cant explain it, but I think I offered up "A concept of an explanation"....    that's gonna have to do for now !    

[stevenkesslar]

4 hours ago, Suckrates said:

So, to your question, NO I cant explain it, but I think I offered up "A concept of an explanation"....    that's gonna have to do for now ! 

[Stable Genius]

Don't forget that peaceful civil disobedience can now have an American sent to a foreign prison. As it has been throughout our history, civil uprising, including violence when provoked, is necessary to depose bad actors working against the American People and our Democracy.

[Suckrates]

2 minutes ago, Stable Genius said:

Don't forget that peaceful civil disobedience can now have an American sent to a foreign prison. As it has been throughout our history, civil uprising, including violence when provoked, is necessary to depose bad actors working against the American People and our Democracy.

"Well, we're going in a Different direction NOW !"   😡

[PeterRS]

10 hours ago, stevenkesslar said:

Only a narcissist like Trump would believe that if he just appeases Putin, Putin will forget about his strategic interest in allying with China against America and democratic institutions.   After all, democracy is hardly Trump's first love, either.

Permit me to reprint here a post I made in the Beer Bar on Sunday. It reads - 

Americans, certainly those who voted for Trump, tend to forget that one of his key mentors was "one of the most reviled men in American history." He came to fame as chief counsel for the fiercely anti-communist Joseph McCarthy's Senate sub-committee in the 1950s. A lawyer of the most notorious kind, a tax cheat and swindler, he counted mobsters as well as Presidents among his clients. He was indicted four times for stock-swindling, obstructing justice, perjury, bribery, conspiracy, extortion, blackmail and filing false reports. Three times he was aquitted and the fourth ended in a mistrial "giving him a kind of sneering, sinister sheen of invulnerability."

Robert Cohen, a lawyer at one of his firms said, "He was the man to see if you wanted to beat the system.  He did whatever he wanted, and felt he was good enough at everything to get away with it, and he did it for a very, very long time." Another attorney in his office said, "Roy couldn't have given less of a shit about the rules." Cohn himself once was quoted in Penthouse magazine, "I decided long ago to make my own rules."

The quotes above and below are from Politico and come from a documentary made about him in 2019. The article continues -

He didn’t pay his bills, all but daring his creditors to sue him for what he owed—tailors, locksmiths, mechanics, travel agencies, storage companies, credit card companies, stationery stores, office supply stores. He didn’t pay people back, “friend or foe,” wrote his biographer, Nicholas von Hoffman, who reported that a captain of his yacht called Defiance “had a mental map” of “ports we couldn’t go into because we owed thousands of dollars.”

He didn’t pay his taxes, either, racking up millions of dollars in liens. Taxes, he believed, went to “welfare recipients” and “political hacks” and “bloated bureaucrats” and “countries whose people hate our guts.” He ceaselessly taunted the IRS, calling it “the closest thing we have in this country to a Nazi or Soviet-type agency”—subpoenas from which, he said, went straight into “the wastebasket” . . . 

Cohn became for Trump something much more than simply his attorney. At a most formative moment for Trump, there was no more formative figure than Cohn . . . Deflect and distract, never give in, never admit fault, lie and attack, lie and attack, publicity no matter what, win no matter what, all underpinned by a deep, prove-me-wrong belief in the power of chaos and fear.

Trump was Cohn’s most insatiable student and beneficiary. “He didn’t just educate Trump, he didn’t just teach Trump, he put Trump in with people who would make Trump,” Marcus, his cousin, told me. “Roy gave him the tools. All the tools.”

Roy Cohn, this extreme gay-bashing homophobe was secretly gay himself and was to die of AIDS aged 59. Six weeks earlier he had finally been disbarred as a lawyer. Trump certainly is not gay but in every other respect he is the near spitting image of hits mentor.

https://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2019/09/19/roy-cohn-donald-trump-documentary-228144/

 

All that said, there is little actual logic in Trump's actions against China - but then there is virtually no logic in much of what he is doing apart from "Look at me. I'm the great saviour." It is all so typical of Roy Cohn's methods.

As @stevenkesslar rightly points out, both Republicans and Democrats had the same objective for the following quarter century after the start of the 1990s. We're going to build up China's economy. At the same time we're going to enable the American consumer to get goods much cheaper than if they were manufactured in America or elsewhere. It will be good for the economy. Towards the end of this period, though, after China owned the largest portion of America's debt, it had sent rockets to the moon, it's economy was growing at rates unheard of in the west for more than a century, suddenly - and too late - American politicians realised that China had become a threat to its own growth. But it failed to realise that China's trade with the rest of the world had also grown rapidly. President Xi's Belt & Road initiative is one way it is expanding its export reach.

The other issue is that China's trade with the USA is now little more than 3% of the country's GDP. The effect on employment will be greater as 10-15 million jobs depend on US exports. And China is presently grappling with major edonomic problems of its own. Once its major driver of growth, the real estate market has all but collapsed and the country has stopped issuing unemplyment figures of young graduates because the number has increased beyond 20%. These problems will take years to resolve. 

But we should never forget that whereas the USA is dependent on four-year election cycles when much can change policy-wise relatively quickly, China has always looked at the long term. When to comes to a fight, I for one will not bet against China.

[stevenkesslar]

On 4/14/2025 at 9:18 PM, PeterRS said:

When to comes to a fight, I for one will not bet against China.

Nor would I.

I think of Cohn as an important figure in Trump's life.   But to extend the point, it's possible to look at Cohn as a sort of key to unlocking an understanding of Trump.

It helps explain a few things. 

First, why Trump will fail - if the job is winning a trade war or a global power struggle with China.  Cohn was great at getting away with shit, as you note.  And that alone gave him a certain type of respect and notoriety.  But that kind of respect doesn't build alliances.  Cohn did not build NATO.  He was best at attacking and conning people.

Second, it helps explain why some of America is attracted to Trump.   Fear and loathing, basically.  Cohn played a useful role when people were scared of Communists and Evil Gays and wanted an attack dog.  Thankfully, Ike was POTUS and McCarthy and Cohn were just relatively minor players.   The GOP Establishment could control it as a useful side show.  No such luck this time!

The simple but I think key problem is that you don't form alliances by bullying people.  Or at least by bullying people most of the time.  China has their own problems with the same. Including the coercive aspects of Belt and Road.  But it seems clear already that Trump's bullying and abdication of strategic and shared democratic interests is just sending lots of nations to China.

[Suckrates]

41 minutes ago, stevenkesslar said:

Nor would I.

I think of Cohn as an important figure in Trump's life.   But to extend the point, it's possible to look at Cohn as a sort of key to unlocking an understanding of Trump.

It helps explain a few things. 

First, why Trump will fail - if the job is winning a trade war or a global power struggle with China.  Cohn was great at getting away with shit, as you note.  And that alone gave him a certain type of respect and notoriety.  But that kind of respect doesn't build alliances.  Cohn did not build NATO.  He was best at attacking and conning people.

Second, it helps explain why some of America is attracted to Trump.   Fear and loathing, basically.  Cohn played a useful role when people were scared of Communists and Evil Gays and wanted an attack dog.  Thankfully, Ike was POTUS and McCarthy and Cohn were just relatively minor players.   The GOP Establishment could control it as a useful side show.  No such luck this time!

The simple but I think key problem is that you don't form alliances by bullying people.  Or at least by bullying people most of the time.  China has their own problems with the same. Including the coercive aspects of Belt and Road.  But it seems clear already that Trump's bullying and abdication of strategic and shared democratic interests is just sending lots of nations to China.

 

Total destruction by Trump will come way before his FAILURE does. 

[stevenkesslar]

1 hour ago, Suckrates said:

 

Total destruction by Trump will come way before his FAILURE does. 

Interesting and thoughtful Politico article that goes through the debate about whether any of this makes sense. 

Trump wants to make a deal with China. Here’s how he’s trying to make that happen.

As much as I have never been a huge fan of fabulously rich and smug Wall Street titans, I think the common sense award of the day goes to Jamie Dimon.

Quote

Interestingly, JP Morgan Chase CEO Jamie Dimon, whose recession worries helped spur Trump to dial back tariffs last week, applied new pressure in an interview on Tuesday, urging Trump and Xi to begin talks sooner rather than later.

Translation:   "While you bluster your way through the volatile and poorly thought out one-man Trump Tariff Show, asshole, the rest of us will pay for the destruction with a recession."

 

[Stable Genius]

Good to see that Saddam Hussein's interior decorator has found a new gig.

 

 

https://www.wsj.com/politics/policy/trump-white-house-oval-office-gold-touches-6018016d?st=RZUib8&reflink=desktopwebshare_permalink