Another 9-TEEN Massage

[a-447]

39 minutes ago, 10tazione said:

This raises the question: How can a country with such customs ever make progress in any area, let's take science or inventions for example? Any idea?

Those at the top make the decisions - everyone else just follows. So it's not as though nobody ever decides anything. The decision is usually a collective one so that no singular person can be blamed if something goes wrong.

I've often wondered where Japan would be today if they actually got their shit together and became more organised. Her competitors on the world stage should be grateful for the ongoing chaos.

[Keithambrose]

17 hours ago, Marc in Calif said:

Great photo!

The masseurs are men rather than little boys. 🙃

Some still count as twinks!  ☺️

[vinapu]

21 hours ago, a-447 said:

Yes, Peter. You're spot on.
 

At school we never asked questions; we sat there and absorbed what was being taught. We were never asked our opinions or to look at a problem and analyse it. All analysis was done by someone else.  We were specifically taught not to think, but to follow. There was certainly no chance to think out of the box, as the lid was shut tight.

Young people today are pushing back, but I think this is only during the short time between school graduation and when they finish university. As soon as they enter a company, they are dragged back into the system.

You can see this lack of thinking and decision-making in action every day in Japan.

The daughter of a friend is a high school teacher in Tokyo. I visited her school to give a talk to her class and afterwards I wandered around the gym during a sports lesson. 

Four kids were playing badminton. I asked if I could have a go and got the typical response - they held a meeting trying to decide what to do! Eventually, one of them approached me and politely refused. It's because they had to ask their teacher what to do, and she was nowhere to be seen.

The same happens if you go to a restaurant and make a small change to the menu.
 

Individual desserts were listed on a menu in a coffee shop. I ordered a piece of cake and asked for a scoop of icecream on top. As expected, the waitress was taken aback and didn't know how to reply. Here's a customer not sticking to the rules!  She went back to the counter, had a meeting with the staff and then came back and told me I'd have to order the icecream separately.

So I did. And when she brought my order to my table I picked up the bowl and tipped the icecream onto my cake!

"See? This is how it's done," I said with a smile.

But the lack of decision-making ability and thinking out of the box was there for all to see during the earthquake of 1995. Teams of rescuers with sniffer dogs arrived from various countries but were held up for a day at the airport, wasting precious time, because nobody would make the decision about what to do with the dogs! Had it been a western country I'm sure Quarantine would have said, just get the dogs down to the disaster area so they can do their job - paperwork can come later. But there was nobody in authority at the airport willing to make that decision by himself. Numerous meetings would have been held before the decision to release the dogs was finally made.

Yet there was time not long ago when Japan was world's second economy so something there must be done right

[daydreamer]

21 hours ago, a-447 said:

Yes, Peter. You're spot on.

At school we never asked questions; we sat there and absorbed what was being taught. We were never asked our opinions or to look at a problem and analyse it. All analysis was done by someone else.  We were specifically taught not to think, but to follow. There was certainly no chance to think out of the box, as the lid was shut tight.

 

21 hours ago, a-447 said:

You can see this lack of thinking and decision-making in action every day in Japan.

 

I concur with the comments written above by @PeterRS and @a-447 regarding the lack of independent thinking and the absolute avoidance of challenging superiors in Japan. 

I lived in Japan for nearly a decade, and I observed numerous examples of this behavior at work amongst Japanese co-workers over the years, during my time in Japan.

And, as @bkkmfj2648 said, this behavior extends to some other countries in Asia as well.

A stark example of the consequences of this mindset can be seen in the findings of the Korean Airlines B-747 aircraft that crashed into Nimitz Hill on Guam in 1997, on final approach, killing 228 people on board.  

The captain of the B-747 made some critical errors, and the two junior flight officers in the cockpit failed to challenge and overrule the captain's flawed decisions, leading to the airliner crashing into the mountain, within sight of the airport.

If the First Officer and Flight Engineer had challenged and overruled the Captain, a horrific loss of lives could possibly have been prevented.

Below are three key paragraphs from the findings section of the 226 page Aircraft Accident Report from the NTSB:

11. As a result of his confusion and preoccupation with the status of the glideslope,
failure to properly cross-check the airplane’s position and altitude with the
information on the approach chart, and continuing expectation of a visual approach,
the captain lost awareness of flight 801’s position on the instrument landing system
localizer-only approach to runway 6L at Guam International Airport and improperly
descended below the intermediate approach altitudes of 2,000 and 1,440 feet, which
was causal to the accident.

12. The first officer and flight engineer noted the ground proximity warning system
(GPWS) callouts and the first officer properly called for a missed approach, but the
captain’s failure to react properly to the GPWS minimums callout and the direct
challenge from the first officer precluded action that might have prevented the
accident.

13. The first officer and flight engineer failed to properly monitor and/or challenge the
captain’s performance, which was causal to the accident.

https://www.ntsb.gov/investigations/accidentreports/reports/aar0001.pdf

National Transportation Safety Board. 2000. Controlled Flight Into Terrain, Korean Air Flight 801, Boeing
747-300, HL7468, Nimitz Hill, Guam, August 6, 1997. Aircraft Accident Report NTSB/AAR-00/01.
Washington, DC

[a-447]

56 minutes ago, vinapu said:

Yet there was time not long ago when Japan was world's second economy so something there must be done right

Important decisions are made, of course, just like in any advanced economy  - but only at the top and only after long discussions which drag on forever.

Once a decision has been reached on an issue, a meeting is then called to ostensibly discuss that issue and, surprise surprise, a consensus is reached! And everyone can quickly move forward together in lock-step. 

And, of course, you'd have to mention the Japanese workers' diligence, exceptional skill based on a very good knowledge of what their job entails (knowledge gained from rote learning), attention to detail, willingness to work for lower wages than those in the West, dedication to the company over the family, blindly following instructions without dissent, no pesky interfering unions to worry about,..........the list goes on.

 

[PeterRS]

32 minutes ago, daydreamer said:

A stark example of the consequences of this mindset can be seen in the findings of the Korean Airlines B-747 aircraft that crashed into Nimitz Hill on Guam in 1997, on final approach, killing 228 people on board.

Another sad example is the August 1985 crash of another Boeing 747 in Japan after taking off from Haneda to Osaka with 524 on board. Some years earlier, that aircraft had suffered a tail strike which Boeing had repaired. Or assumed it had repaired. In fact the repair was faulty and some bolts holding the aft pressure bulkhead were omitted. 

12 minutes after take off there was rapid decompression. The aft bulkhead had broken away taking some of the tail vertical stabiliser and hydraulic power lines with it. This rendered the aircraft uncontrollable. With great skill, the pilots used the engines as a means of trying to regain some form of control. They were successful for a full 31 minutes. They almost managed to get the stricken aircraft near an airport but then crashed into a hillside at an elevation of around 1,500 meters.

The US AirForce base at Yokota had been monitoring the distress calls and prepared an emergency rescue team. Still in daylight, one if its helicopters spotted the crash site 20 minutes after the event. Unable to land because of the terrain, seeing no survivors the crew reported to their superiors and the Japanese authorities. The Japanese managers of the rescue team then decided not to mount any attempt to reach the aircraft remains until the following morning. When they arrived, they found four passengers alive. One of those rescued was an off-duty flight purser. She reported that throughout the night she heard screams from other passengers. It was perfectly clear to Japanese doctors that had the Japanese rescue efforts started the following evening, other passengers could have been saved.

But a decision had been made and no out-of-the-box thinking persuaded any of the team to question the manager's decision.

[a-447]

August 12, 1985 was a dark day in Japan - I remember it at though it happened yesterday.
 

Adding to the sadness was the fact that singer Sakamoto Kyuu of "Sukiyaki" fame (what a stupid title!) died in that crash.

He had many hit records in Japan, was a talented actor and TV personality. In fact, he was the first real TV star.

Here's something you may not know about him  - teenage boys related well to him as, like many of them, he suffered from terrible acne problems but carried on regardless!

 

[spoon]

Decisions made only by the top and the rest is just following orders. Sounds oddly familiar.... Isnt this whats military does?

[floridarob]

Nobody better ever complain about me taking a post off topic....

I didn't  come in beep beeping.....😝

[a-447]

3 hours ago, spoon said:

Decisions made only by the top and the rest is just following orders. Sounds oddly familiar.... Isnt this whats military does?

I imagine you are 100% correct.

And it makes sense, as there is strength in unity.

[a-447]

2 hours ago, floridarob said:

Nobody better ever complain about me taking a post off topic....

I didn't  come in beep beeping.....😝

Although I didn't take this thread off topic, I plead guilty to participating in discussion which does not completely relate to the OP, but one which I think I know a lot about.

It's what happens all the time on discussion boards like this.

Once the topic has been exhausted, people move on  to something else - just like we do when having a normal conversation.

[bkkmfj2648]

20 minutes ago, a-447 said:

And it makes sense, as there is strength in unity

I think that it depends on how you define "strength in unity" and for what purpose that it is for?

For military purposes I would agree.

But for innovation and discovery purposes I would disagree.  Innovation tends to come into existence from outliers, non conformists, inventors, R&D, etc.

My previous employer had a very militaristic structure with a strong chain of command.  They wanted everyone to conform - which often put me at odds with the management.  For example, when the new IBAN legislation was implemented in the EU during the period 2014 - 2016 - some of my superiors were opposed to this new type of bank account.  They blocked me many times from implementing it for our organization.  So, I waited for an opportune moment - when they were all out of the office and for 1 working business day I instructed my team to use it for that day's daily payments.  It was a complete success and I was able to prove legally that our organization was now operating within this new EU regulation.

The next day I was called into the Director's office and threatened to be fired.  I barked back - go ahead and do it.  I will NOT work for an organization that is breaking the law after you forced all of us to sign fiduciary responsibility documents in our roles as Finance Officers.  He backed off and I was not fired.

The point of this story - is that sometimes you just need to stand up against Goliath the system and take a calculated risk, when it is failing, due to the need to follow antiquated procedures.  You should only follow the procedure when it is ethical, legal, and makes good business sense.   This was the only way that I could find peace to keep working in that over bureaucratic militaristic structure.

[floridarob]

1 hour ago, a-447 said:

It's what happens all the time on discussion boards like this.

I've been accused a few times of taking someone's post off topic.... and some one, not to mention any names,    @vinapu  came in beeping to point it out 😉

[vinapu]

5 hours ago, spoon said:

Decisions made only by the top and the rest is just following orders. 

sounds like household of me late aunt Katie 

[vinapu]

22 minutes ago, floridarob said:

I've been accused a few times of taking someone's post off topic.... and some one, not to mention any names,    @vinapu  came in beeping to point it out 😉

you sound like my late aunt Katie

[spoon]

2 hours ago, bkkmfj2648 said:

But for innovation and discovery purposes I would disagree.  Innovation tends to come into existence from outliers, non conformists, inventors, R&D, etc

But, there are tonnes of new innovation and discoveries that we enjoy today, comes from the military. GPS for example.

 But i agree, military style rules only work well if the top are doing well themselves. Any new innovation implementation would be very easy to be done in a military style ruling if it comes from the top, since they would face little to no objection to the changes. But if the top is a stubborn idiot, narrow minded asshat, then they are doomed

[daydreamer]

12 hours ago, spoon said:

But, there are tonnes of new innovation and discoveries that we enjoy today, comes from the military. GPS for example.

 But i agree, military style rules only work well if the top are doing well themselves. Any new innovation implementation would be very easy to be done in a military style ruling if it comes from the top, since they would face little to no objection to the changes. But if the top is a stubborn idiot, narrow minded asshat, then they are doomed

Certainly many new innovations and inventions have been pioneered by the military.  But these are the result of extensive research and development efforts, in specialized labs and proving grounds, not by common infantry troops.  

In military combat units, it would be detrimental to the mission of the unit to question orders or attempt to re-invent the plan of attack that superiors have directed.

[Travelingguy]

It never occurred to me to ask, but 9Teen always struck me as “barely legal.” Was that the intention with the name, or am I off base?

[vinapu]

1 hour ago, Travelingguy said:

It never occurred to me to ask, but 9Teen always struck me as “barely legal.” Was that the intention with the name, or am I off base?

judging by how their boys look like  one can safely say they are bit of distance for being barely legal, most look mid 20ties

[jason1975]

1 hour ago, Travelingguy said:

It never occurred to me to ask, but 9Teen always struck me as “barely legal.” Was that the intention with the name, or am I off base?

The guys are mid 20s and above. The 9Teen name is marketing genius by the owners. Everyone remembers 9Teen. Who remembers all the names of the other massage shops in Soi 6?