How much responsibility do you feel for mitigating others' mistakes?

[reader]

12 minutes ago, unicorn said:

Some might agree, but with 10,000 views, most apparently don't agree. This string has had far more views than almost any other in recent memory. Those who truthfully agree with that sentiment will simply stop viewing. 

Yet no one has indicated approval of your positions.

[unicorn]

2 minutes ago, reader said:

Yet no one has indicated approval of your positions.

If you disagree, feel free to indicate why (hopefully with some factual information, and not simply emotional ramblings). 

[reader]

1 minute ago, unicorn said:

If you disagree, feel free to indicate why (hopefully with some factual information, and not simply emotional ramblings). 

Because they’re based on a western bias. And I say that without emotion or rancor.

[unicorn]

6 minutes ago, reader said:

Because they’re based on a western bias. And I say that without emotion or rancor.

Well, perhaps said with the arrogance of someone who thinks only someone from the Far East could understand the thinking process of a Japanese farmer. However, he appeared to be the only holdout. So what you said is not only arrogant, but factually false as well. 

[Keithambrose]

29 minutes ago, unicorn said:

Some might agree, but with 10,000 views, most apparently don't agree. This string has had far more views than almost any other in recent memory. Those who truthfully agree with that sentiment will simply stop viewing. 

I was referring to the childish spat, involving MoA,  not to the underlying  subject  matter, which, I agree, is very topical.

[reader]

7 minutes ago, unicorn said:

Well, perhaps said with the arrogance of someone who thinks only someone from the Far East could understand the thinking process of a Japanese farmer. However, he appeared to be the only holdout. So what you said is not only arrogant, but factually false as well. 

You, @unicorn, are the essence of arrogance, the king of conceit, the depth of vanity.

And I say that with all emotion and rancor.

[unicorn]

5 minutes ago, reader said:

You, @unicorn, are the essence of arrogance, the king of conceit, the depth of vanity.

And I say that with all emotion and rancor.

Which is why it's impossible to have a mature, rational conversation with an angry baboon.

[reader]

5 minutes ago, unicorn said:

Which is why it's impossible to have a mature, rational conversation with an angry baboon.

Will serve you well to keep that in mind. 😏

[a-447]

"Well, if you don't agree with my sources, you're more than welcome to provide your own"

WTF???

Unicorn, did you fail English comprehension at school?

I'm doing exactly that! I'm agreeing with you- or rather, what is written on Wikipedia! 100%.

Yes, leftist political parties were involved in the demonstrations. Isn't that what I said - twice?

Give me strength!

[a-447]

Here's an interview with the farmer.
He backs up everything I've said,  and nothing you've said.

I've has enough of talking to a brick wall, so I'll let you carry on arguing with the BBC.
 

 

[vinapu]

do I understand whole problem correctly  ? Farmer wanted to sold an airport to communists but they did not buy because they did not have money nor expertise to run big airport ?

[unicorn]

10 hours ago, a-447 said:

...Yes, leftist political parties were involved in the demonstrations. Isn't that what I said - twice? ...

You appear to have a significant short memory problem. What you said was that the "whole country" was behind the farmer. If you truly believe that what you said was that only leftist political parties were involved (and are not simply lying), then you really should see a physician for evaluation of memory problems. Seriously. 

[unicorn]

9 hours ago, a-447 said:

Here's an interview with the farmer.
He backs up everything I've said,  and nothing you've said...

 

I've told you multiple times that I believe this farmer is a stubborn mule and most probably a liar. What might possibly lead you to think I'd find anything he says persuasive? That's the best you could come up with? How often do you buy his jet fuel-laced vegetables? Does the jet fuel add a certain je ne said quoi to the taste? Seeing the video just reinforces the ridiculousness of his current situation. What kind of a jackass would like to be in his situation?

[a-447]

"What you said was that the "whole country" was behind the farmer."

That's right. That was the sentiment at the time.

"what you said was that only leftist political parties were involved"

I never said that.  If you believe I did, please quote me.

"you really should see a physician for evaluation of memory problems. Seriously."

The farmer in the video proves that even after 50 years have passed, my memory is, in fact, perfect!

Unicorn, your breath-taking arrogance is summed up in these comments :

"probably a liar"

"What might possibly lead you to think I'd find anything he says persuasive?"

And all because he didn't agree with you in his interview!

Unbelievable.

[unicorn]

2 hours ago, a-447 said:

...

"what you said was that only leftist political parties were involved"I never said that.  If you believe I did, please quote me.

"you really should see a physician for evaluation of memory problems. Seriously."

The farmer in the video proves that even after 50 years have passed, my memory is, in fact, perfect!...

And all because he didn't agree with you in his interview!...

"...Yes, leftist political parties were involved in the demonstrations. Isn't that what I said - twice?..." .

After 50 years? That video is 4 years old. Twilight zone. He mentions how the pandemic was a relief for him. That made it clear, by inference, that the other times are unpleasant for him. In any case, truthful or not, his opinion is not relevant to the fact that he's simply a stubborn mule. 

One can argue whether or not, for example, Donald Trump truly believes Ukraine started the war with Russia, or whether he's spouting BS intentionally. Of course, no one can really know what really goes on in his mind (although one can make fair inferences). What it comes down to is that what he says is simply ridiculous, and that anyone with any knowledge of the subject knows that. 

Just about anyone looking at that video would think "Oh, dear. What a mess that farmer got himself into." In fact, the ridiculousness of situation seems to be the main point of the video. 

[a-447]

 

"After 50 years? That video is 4 years old"

Yes, but the story resulting in the 4 year old situation - and the situation today  -  of him remaining on the farm is 50 years old. It's called "background information". 

Things do not just happen in a vacuum - there's always a story behind events and that history is important to understand and explain what's happening now.

"Just about anyone looking at that video would think "Oh, dear. What a mess that farmer got himself into." 

So, now you are speaking on behalf of others, whose opinion you couldn't possible know. Such arrogance!

Nobody here has said that he got himself into a mess. And judging by the number of views you say this thread has received, that should tell you something. I guess readers believe the 2 people who were on the ground at the time and saw it with their own eyes, rather than the account of someone who was 10,000 km away and 50 years too late to the party.

Plus, the farmer himself never said he was in some kind of mess in the interview. (I know, I know - you reckon he's just telling lies, as it suits your version of what happened. How do you know he's lying?)

He said the amount of compensation offered was equal to working the land for 150 years. Yet he still didn't take it. And your Western logic can't understand it. ('Take the money, you stubborn fool! Take the money!'

Are you really that shallow Unicorn?)

Using Japanese logic, it's perfectly understandable. I've tried to explain it to you but it's obviously gone completely over your head. Either that, or you reject it because it doesn't suit your narrative. I think it's a bit of both. 

As for regrets, he had the chance to leave the farm, take the compensation and live a life of undreamed of luxury. But he didn't.

As for Covid bringing peace and quiet, that noise and pollution was obviously no more than an annoyance.

There are thousands of farmers living around the airport with its noise and pollution. Take a look on google maps.

[khaolakguy]

Will you two stop bumping this thread up the list above interesting topics!

The whole thread title was a misnomer as it appeared to be more about how some people take a gamble on transit times and nothing, or very little, about 'mitigating others' mistakes?"

The whole thread has been the biggest mistake and Unicorn goes back on the blocked list...........

If someone can remind me how!

[Keithambrose]

2 hours ago, khaolakguy said:

Will you two stop bumping this thread up the list above interesting topics!

The whole thread title was a misnomer as it appeared to be more about how some people take a gamble on transit times and nothing, or very little, about 'mitigating others' mistakes?"

The whole thread has been the biggest mistake and Unicorn goes back on the blocked list...........

If someone can remind me how!

I wonder what Freud would say?

[a-447]

2 hours ago, khaolakguy said:

Will you two stop bumping this thread up the list above interesting topics! 

I just checked the first page Beer Bar statistics and this thread has now garnered 12,200 views! The thread that came in second with 3,700 views was an Admin issue regarding the new url. Four topics came in third with 1,300 views each.

Asaik, the more popular a topic, the higher up the list it goes, so it is the members of the forum who are to 'blame', not Unicorn or myself.

I'm stunned that so many are interested in this farmer.

Perhaps it's because they like to read about the underdog and his fight against an arrogant, uncaring government - a simple farmer who stood up to the bully and won. 

That was the sentiment in Japan at the time.

[unicorn]

9 hours ago, a-447 said:

...Using Japanese logic, it's perfectly understandable. I've tried to explain it to you but it's obviously gone completely over your head...

You're the one who's arrogant for believing that just because you explain your position, that you must be right. It is you who ignore the facts. I have shown examples of dozens of people who similarly turned down generous offers, mostly in the west, in fact, and none of them in Japan, and paid the consequence. It is you who ignores the fact that this was the only farmer (all of the rest were also Japanese) who rejected the offers. As another poster pointed out, the lone farmer's behavior was, in all appearances, quite "un-Japanese" (anti-social and pig-headed). It is you who claimed the "whole country" was behind him when, in fact, only a fringe political group supported him. You ignore all of the hard (and obvious) facts, while your only claim to being "right" stems from your assertion that only your opinion matters because of where you grew up. Sorry, but most other Japanese people apparently disagree with you. 

[unicorn]

5 hours ago, khaolakguy said:

...If someone can remind me how!

Oh, for God's sake, it's not that complicated (quite intuitive, in fact). Just click on your icon on the top right, then in the pull-down menu, click on "Ignored users." 

[a-447]

"just because you explain your position"

I'm not explaining my own position. I'm explaining the farmer's position.

"I have shown examples of dozens of people who similarly turned down generous offers.."

So what? How on earth is that relevant? Please explain.

"... and paid the consequence"

What consequence has he paid? He won the fight to keep his farm. That's all that mattered to his family. And for the last 50 years they have quietly gotten on with their lives.

"this was the only farmer (all of the rest were also Japanese) who rejected the offers"

Watch the video again. He said that 5 other farms remain within the airport precinct. And are you sure they were all Japanese? Nobody from say, the Cook Islands or from one of the where-the-fuck-a Stan countries, perhaps? 😂

And I will repeat my question, as you forgot to reply.

Why did the government move the original location of the airport if it wasn't for the refusal of the farmers to sell their land?

"...the lone farmer's behavior was, in all appearances, quite "un-Japanese" (anti-social and pig-headed)."

See my previous comment. Do try to keep up, Unicorn.

"It is you who claimed the "whole country" was behind him"

See my previous comments. Do try to keep up, Unicorn.

"only a fringe political group supported him."

See my previous comments. Do try to keep up, Unicorn.

"most other Japanese people apparently disagree with you"

See my previous comments. Do try to keep up, Unicorn.

And I've just seen one of my own previous comments :

"I've has enough of talking to a brick wall, so I'll let you carry on arguing with the BBC."

But I haven't had this much fun since my incident with the turkey baster! 😂😂

[unicorn]

3 hours ago, a-447 said:

"I have shown examples of dozens of people who similarly turned down generous offers.."

So what? How on earth is that relevant? Please explain.

 

You keep repeating yourself with your infantile large font, claiming to be too stupid to figure out how to adjust font size, yet able to figure out how to use bold face. You don't bring up anything new. Any idiot could figure out that the multiple examples of stubborn hold-outs around the world proves that the farmer's behavior is not something uniquely Japanese. You continue to ignore that the only two parties which supported the farmer have either disappeared completely in one case, and have only minimal representation in the National Diet in the other case. You are completely disinterested in actual facts. Your only "argument" is your arrogant (and racist) contention that only a Japanese person could understand the farmer's motives. You position is all BS, no facts.

[a-447]

30 minutes ago, unicorn said:

You keep repeating yourself with your infantile large font, claiming to be too stupid to figure out how to adjust font size, yet able to figure out how to use bold face. You don't bring up anything new. Any idiot could figure out that the multiple examples of stubborn hold-outs around the world proves that the farmer's behavior is not something uniquely Japanese. You continue to ignore that the only two parties which supported the farmer have either disappeared completely in one case, and have only minimal representation in the National Diet in the other case. You are completely disinterested in actual facts. Your only "argument" is your arrogant (and racist) contention that only a Japanese person could understand the farmer's motives. You position is all BS, no facts.

Complaining about font size is a first world problem.

"proves that the farmer's behavior is not something uniquely Japanese"

I never said it was.

"You continue to ignore that the only two parties which supported the farmer have either disappeared completely in one case, and have only minimal representation in the National Diet in the other case."

What has their disappearance got to do with anything? The fact that the farmer is still there after these parties disappeared should tell you something! It's totally irrelevant.

Your argument is that the farmer was only supported by 2 political movements and nobody else. If that were true, common sense would surely suggest that the government would not have given into him. The Japanese people were on the side of the farmer, as was portrayed at the time in the media. The government caved in to public pressure. (Have you ever heard of that happening before? I guess not).

You don't know that because you weren't there.

 

 

 

[unicorn]