How much responsibility do you feel for mitigating others' mistakes?

[Keithambrose]

On 2/26/2025 at 9:24 AM, a-447 said:

"The big problem for Narita has always been the nearby farmers who have an extremely active lobby that not only delayed the airport's construction decades ago, but also significantly delayed the opening of the second runway"

There were clashes between the authoritative and an unholy alliance between the notoriously conservative farmers and radical left wing organisations. We watched it all on TV every day. 

For years after the airport opened security was very tight entering the airport; cars were stopped and searched and passenger documentation was thoroughly checked. Riot police hovered nearby and their heavily armoured vans were parked along the roads.

One stubborn farmer refused to sell his land so various taxiways were diverted around his farm. It is still there today,

 

Must get a tad of aircraft  noise, let alone pollution!

[a-447]

4 hours ago, unicorn said:

Assuming he was offered fair compensation for his property, if not celebrating pig-headed behavior is the western way of thinking, I'll take the western way! 😉

I admire his commitment to the land, which his family has probably farmed for generations.

To many farmers - and not just in Japan - that deep attachment is more important than money.

 

[unicorn]

29 minutes ago, a-447 said:

I admire his commitment to the land, which his family has probably farmed for generations...

I wonder how much he makes from the farm these days? I'm sure there were rules farmers had to follow during the time of the Shoguns and Emperors as well. Would the feudal lords be impeded by legal maneuvering? There is no wisdom in failing to adapt to change. Do you think he refuses to use the internet or cell phones because his ancestors did fine without them? Would you admire such a refusal?

[unicorn]

Here's a video about other stubborn homeowners throughout the world who refused to sell. None ended well for the homeowner. Many also had lots of local supporters who admired the "tenacity" of the stubborn homeowners. Of course, none of the "supporters" had a real stake in the situations. It was no skin off of these "supporters" asses when they cheered on the land owners. These "supporters" loved watch "David" defeat "Goliath," but cared not for the consequences. It's easy to cheer on when you have nothing to lose yourself. 

 

[unicorn]

[unicorn]

Stubbornness isn't unique to Japanese culture:

 

[PeterRS]

44 minutes ago, unicorn said:

Do you think he refuses to use the internet or cell phones because his ancestors did fine without them? Would you admire such a refusal?

You've already made your point which we all get - and a couple of posters who know Japan far better than you have explained why this farmer has acted as he did and continues to act as he does. Why do you now continue to mock him with silly cartoons? Why not instead learn some Japanese and go to Japan to check your western views with those of the average Japanese so that you can understand facts and not continue to be childish about it?

[unicorn]

48 minutes ago, PeterRS said:

You've already made your point which we all get...  Why not instead learn some Japanese and go to Japan...

No, you missed the point completely. My point is that there are stubborn people throughout the globe (which you can see if you'd watch those videos). There are examples in the US, the UK, etc. And all of the other land owners in Narita sold their property. It is a falsehood to say this is about "valiant Japanese culture." This is simply about stubbornness and failure to adapt to reality. And I've spent weeks in Japanese family homes. When I went, I was actually able to communicate in Japanese (didn't keep up with it, so no longer able). So your ass-umption was factually wrong. When you jump to conclusions without knowing the facts, you just demonstrate yourself as someone who forms his opinions first, then ignores any facts which don't jibe with his opinions. Something doesn't become true just because you want it to be true. Sounds like a certain orange-faced man I know about.

 

 

[PeterRS]

50 minutes ago, unicorn said:

No, you missed the point completely. My point is that there are stubborn people throughout the globe (which you can see if you'd watch those videos). There are examples in the US, the UK, etc. And all of the other land owners in Narita sold their property. It is a falsehood to say this is about "valiant Japanese culture." This is simply about stubbornness and failure to adapt to reality. And I've spent weeks in Japanese family homes. When I went, I was actually able to communicate in Japanese (didn't keep up with it, so no longer able). So your ass-umption was factually wrong. 

With respect, I was not wrong. I agree there are stubborn asses all over the world. And with your knowledge and experience of Japan you will be perfectly well aware that every Japanese will know this farmer is being stubborn - and indeed very un-Japanese. It's a country where for centuries the group has taken precedence over the individual. But this man is not merely an individual. His case about retaining his land struck a chord with vast numbers of Japanese people. It was that fact that made the government back off. It's nothing to do with a "valiant Japanese culture", as you call it.

Your asssumption in this thread has always been that the man should have seen a sort of western reason about the benefits of selling his land. And you are correct in the western sense! I have no doubt he could have held out for a humungous amount of cash which could then have benefitted not only his family for generations and the farmers who did sell their land. For you have to remember that this man is still not alone. He has a great many supporters who agree with his action. In 2015 he turned down an offer of ¥180 million (US$1.7 million at the time and no doubt could have held out for considerably more). The anti-Narita movement is the longest running social movement in Japanese history. As author William Andrews points out, the struggle is "not just about the airport. It encapsulates the last gasp of the movement, the very last concrete struggle." And this is a struggle that has seen vast tracts of land seized by the government, many clashes with the police and not a few deaths. 

One question I have never seen answered is why the government decided on Narita as the site for its new international airport in the first place. It was initially a secret government decision and the original plan was that it have 5 runways. presently it has 2 and getting approval for the third which it wanted in time for the 2020/21 Summer olympics consumed such vast quantities of time and patience it is still not ready. Major demonstrations started within days of Narita being proposed back in 1966. Nobody wanted the main airport to be sited there. Yet government instrasigence peristed. Flying in to Narita from the north you see dozens of golf courses, all built some time after Narita opened. Could that land not have been considered?

 

 

[a-447]

5 hours ago, unicorn said:

Do you think he refuses to use the internet or cell phones because his ancestors did fine without them? Would you admire such a refusal?

The attachment and commitment to the farm land can on no way be compared to cell phones or the internet.

They didn't exist generations ago, so there is no attachment.

And at the end of the day, his refusal to sell has has no impact on anyone. The airport was finished and 99% of people travel oblivious the the fact that they are taxi-ing past a farm.

If the farmer is suffering from noise and pollution, that's his problem.

So it's all good.

[unicorn]

20 hours ago, PeterRS said:

..I was not wrong. I agree there are stubborn asses all over the world... every Japanese will know this farmer is being stubborn - and indeed very un-Japanese. It's a country where for centuries the group has taken precedence over the individual...

 He has a great many supporters who agree with his action. In 2015 he turned down an offer of ¥180 million (US$1.7 million at the time and no doubt could have held out for considerably more)...

One question I have never seen answered is why the government decided on Narita as the site for its new international airport in the first place...

Sorry, but you were wrong--by your own admission. You first said that the farmer's stubbornness was due to traditional Japanese values, then admitted in your post above that what he did was, in fact, "very un-Japanese" (your own words). You first said that the whole country was behind him, then scaled that back to say "He was a great many supporters" (which is probably true). Well, Luigi Mangioni, the man who murdered the health insurance CEO, also has "a great many supporters." He has, in fact, raised hundreds of thousands of dollars for his legal defense fund--though the GoFundMe website has refused to host his money begging requests. The fact that he has a great many supporters doesn't mean most people in the US admire murderers. Most Americans believe murder shouldn't be condoned just because the victim might be a heinous person. 

https://www.givesendgo.com/legalfund-ceo-shooting-suspect

https://www.nbcnews.com/tech/internet/gofundme-pulls-luigi-mangione-fundraisers-another-platform-featuring-o-rcna184044

"One of the internet’s most popular crowdfunding platforms, GoFundMe, is removing any campaign in support of Luigi Mangione, the man alleged to have shot and killed the CEO of UnitedHealthcare, while a Christian alternative is promoting one such fundraiser on its front page. GoFundMe is refunding donors who contributed to the campaigns. NBC News found three fundraisers that were posted to the platform and later removed.  “GoFundMe’s Terms of Service prohibit fundraisers for the legal defense of violent crimes,” a representative for the platform said in a statement...". 

I find it interesting that he could only get crowdfunding on a "Christian" crowdfunding platform. I suppose those Christians aren't familiar with the 6th Commandment.

https://biblehub.com/exodus/20-13.htm

I don't know if opinion polls have been taken in Japan regarding the "Narita farmer," but having ample supporters doesn't necessarily mean the whole country's behind him. The fact that you don't know why the Japanese chose Narita as an airport site is obviously irrelevant to the discussion. It looks like the farmer did, indeed, hold out for over ¥180 million, and that they called his bluff. I suspect he regrets his actions now. 

The videos I gave links to showed multiple people who also held out in the hopes of coercing generous offers into even more generous ones. Interestingly, not one of those examples was Japanese. Behaving like an ass is, as you pointed out, "very un-Japanese" (and more "Western").

[PeterRS]

2 hours ago, unicorn said:

Sorry, but you were wrong--by your own admission. You first said that the farmer's stubbornness was due to traditional Japanese values, then admitted in your post above that what he did was, in fact, "very un-Japanese" (your own words). You first said that the whole country was behind him, then scaled that back to say "He was a great many supporters" (which is probably true). Well, Luigi Mangioni, the man who murdered the health insurance CEO, also has "a great many supporters."

I guess you do not read. I have NEVER written "the farmer's stubbornness was due to traditional Japanese values". I have NEVER written "the whole country was behind him". As for your comparison with Luigi Mangioni, there is absolutley zero comparison. He is not Japanese and he does not live in Japan!

What I have written is "Japan is Japan and trying to divine Japanese logic is all but impossible! I have always said that of Thai logic which in many senses is different from western logic, but I think Japan is even more difficult for westerners to comprehend." Yet you continue to reject this and confuse your own western values with those of people in Japan. No doubt you will continue posting silly childish cartooons which have nothing to do with the subject of one Japanese farmer in Japan. End of discussion on my part.

[a-447]

Unicorn, I find your comparisons between the farmer and cell phones and Luigi Mangioni very confusing and irrelevant. 

I was there when it all started, watched it for years and it certainly seemed like everyone was on the farmer's side. (But I didn't do a survey!)

Even today the farmer is unrepentant and doesn't regret rejecting the monetary compensation offered.

The location of Narita airport was chosen because it was a large area of flat land, it was far enough away from Tokyo to mitigate any forms of pollution and the government falsely believed the farmers would hand over their land without complaint. 

But the farmers were infuriated with the total lack of consultation with them and the total disregard for their connection with the land  - in fact, I recall them first finding out about the site on the nightly news! The government, which relied heavily on the notoriously conservative farmers' votes, panicked and quickly decided to forgo the eminent domain solution, opting for the traditional Japanese way of solving disputes, which is through negotiation.

And the result of that negotiation is the situation we see today.

As I said in a previous post, trying to enlighten westerners to the complexities of Japanese logic is something I shy away from with my friends.

It's too exhausting.

[unicorn]

5 hours ago, PeterRS said:

I guess you do not read. I have NEVER written "the farmer's stubbornness was due to traditional Japanese values". I have NEVER written "the whole country was behind him". As for your comparison with Luigi Mangioni, there is absolutley zero comparison. He is not Japanese and he does not live in Japan!

What I have written is "Japan is Japan and trying to divine Japanese logic is all but impossible! I have always said that of Thai logic which in many senses is different from western logic, but I think Japan is even more difficult for westerners to comprehend." Yet you continue to reject this and confuse your own western values with those of people in Japan. No doubt you will continue posting silly childish cartooons which have nothing to do with the subject of one Japanese farmer in Japan. End of discussion on my part.

 

5 hours ago, PeterRS said:

I guess you do not read. I have NEVER written "the farmer's stubbornness was due to traditional Japanese values". I have NEVER written "the whole country was behind him". As for your comparison with Luigi Mangioni, there is absolutley zero comparison. He is not Japanese and he does not live in Japan!

What I have written is "Japan is Japan and trying to divine Japanese logic is all but impossible! I have always said that of Thai logic which in many senses is different from western logic, but I think Japan is even more difficult for westerners to comprehend." Yet you continue to reject this and confuse your own western values with those of people in Japan. No doubt you will continue posting silly childish cartooons which have nothing to do with the subject of one Japanese farmer in Japan. End of discussion on my part.

I must apologize for one thing. It was not you, but rather @a-447 who wrote that the whole country was behind him, and you merely agreed. The lesson one can learn from Mangioni is obvious, however: just because someone has a bunch of (vocal) supporters doesn't mean that the majority of the population supports his actions. And, even if the majority were to support Mangioni or the farmer, that does not give them the moral high ground. This is not an East vs West issue. The farmer was a fool and self-centered. If he states he "doesn't regret rejecting the monetary compensation," then he's a liar as well. Of course, what would one expect a fool to say? Just like the many property owners from all around the globe shown on those videos, he tried to extort more money from his property than his neighbors received, and his bluff was called. After all that's happened, do you expect him to say "Oops. Silly me!"? Not likely. 

[Keithambrose]

1 hour ago, unicorn said:

 

I must apologize for one thing. It was not you, but rather @a-447 who wrote that the whole country was behind him, and you merely agreed. The lesson one can learn from Mangioni is obvious, however: just because someone has a bunch of (vocal) supporters doesn't mean that the majority of the population supports his actions. And, even if the majority were to support Mangioni or the farmer, that does not give them the moral high ground. This is not an East vs West issue. The farmer was a fool and self-centered. If he states he "doesn't regret rejecting the monetary compensation," then he's a liar as well. Of course, what would one expect a fool to say? Just like the many property owners from all around the globe shown on those videos, he tried to extort more money from his property than his neighbors received, and his bluff was called. After all that's happened, do you expect him to say "Oops. Silly me!"? Not likely. 

Same thing happened  in Liverpool Street in London. Developers bought up a patch of land. There was a Turkish Restaurant that refused to sell, the Gallipoli, not a point of principle, he asked for more money. So, they built round him. The restaurant  was in the basement,  so life carried on. Ironically, he eventually  went bust. The building, which looks very Turkish, is still there.

[a-447]

7 hours ago, unicorn said:

just because someone has a bunch of (vocal) supporters doesn't mean that the majority of the population supports his actions. And, even if the majority were to support Mangioni or the farmer, that does not give them the moral high ground. This is not an East vs West issue. The farmer was a fool and self-centered. If he states he "doesn't regret rejecting the monetary compensation," then he's a liar as well. Of course, what would one expect a fool to say? Just like the many property owners from all around the globe shown on those videos, he tried to extort more money from his property than his neighbors received, and his bluff was called. After all that's happened, do you expect him to say "Oops. Silly me!"? Not likely. 

Err....you cannot equate "a bunch" with "the majority of the population". Simple maths.

Where did you get "the moral high ground " comment from?  In all the years since the riots this is the first time I've heard this expressiion, either in English or Japanese, in reference to this situation. But of course, here you are thinking with Western logic. Japan thinks with Japanese logic. There is no moral high ground from a Japanese perspective. 

It's interesting that you somehow know that he's lying when he says he didn't regret rejecting the compensation offered. How do you know that?

And where are your sources to back your claim that he tried to extort more money? 

As you have only spent a few weeks living in Japanese society I do not expect you to understand the cultural importance the land has to the farmer. Your Western logic says, take the money and run.

I don't know where you are from, but I wouldn't be surprised if it were a relatively young country (USA? Australia?) where farmers have not hear the time to develop their generational connection to their land.

[unicorn]

4 hours ago, a-447 said:

Err....you cannot equate "a bunch" with "the majority of the population". Simple maths.

Where did you get "the moral high ground " comment from?  In all the years since the riots this is the first time I've heard this expressiion, either in English or Japanese, in reference to this situation. But of course, here you are thinking with Western logic. Japan thinks with Japanese logic. There is no moral high ground from a Japanese perspective. 

It's interesting that you somehow know that he's lying when he says he didn't regret rejecting the compensation offered. How do you know that?

And where are your sources to back your claim that he tried to extort more money? 

As you have only spent a few weeks living in Japanese society I do not expect you to understand the cultural importance the land has to the farmer. Your Western logic says, take the money and run.

I don't know where you are from, but I wouldn't be surprised if it were a relatively young country (USA? Australia?) where farmers have not hear the time to develop their generational connection to their land.

I'm not the one who equated "a bunch" with "a majority." Quite the opposite: I argued how silly it was for you to claim that the "whole country" was behind the stubborn farmer, when, I suspect, it was only a vocal minority (like the vocal minority which supports Mangione). In fact, I'd be somewhat surprised to learn that even a majority of the country was behind him, but you're the one who made the claim that the country was behind him, so it's up to you to look up any opinion polls to support your dubious claim. 

Every country, regardless of its culture, has its moral values and law. I notice that you consider yourself the ultimate arbiter of what's "Japanese logic" and what's "Western logic." I don't claim to be such an expert, but one thing I do agree with @PeterRS is that being a selfish boor probably represents rather "un-Japanese" behavior. After all, he was the only holdout. 

Of course, I have no way of proving that he regrets his intransigence. However, only an insane person would like to live in the middle of an airport, cut off from others, with a piece of land he can probably no longer sell. No telling what he could have made had he invested the money (even if only with real estate), but $1.7 million in 2015 is worth $2.28 million today, just accounting for inflation. 

It's also pretty dumb to claim I can't understand how a farmer could be attached to his land just because my country is "only" 250 years old. When my country began, Japan was under the Tokugawa shogunate. I doubt this farmer's ancestors owned the land then, and I seriously doubt that the concept of land ownership at the time of Tokugawa Ieharu 徳川 家治 was the same or even similar to what it is today. There are family farms that have been cherished for generations in the US just as in Japan. 

[a-447]

Let me go through your post, line by line. It is full of assumptions and inaccuracies.

The number of "vocal" supporters you referred to in relation to Mangioni can in no way be compared to the "majority of the population" of a country. As I stated above, I did not carry out a survey to see how many Japanese supported him, but the sympathy for him was overwhelming. (BTW, I haven't surveyed the population of Okinawa either, but I can say the feeling of the people there is that they want the US bases gone.)

"I suspect, it was only a vocal minority".

I admire your ability to 'suspect' from  10,000 kilometres away and after 50 years have passed! And also your ability to know that it was a minority, not a majority is impressive.

"so it's up to you to look up any opinion polls to support your dubious claim"

What opinion polls did you look up to support your own "dubious claims"?

"I notice that you consider yourself the ultimate arbiter of what's "Japanese logic" and what's "Western logic."

Not the 'ultimate arbiter' - I'm merely speaking from the point of view of someone who is in the  unique position of having experienced both over decades. You have experienced both but one was only for a few weeks. Hardly comparable.

"a selfish boor"

Well,  yes - 'selfish' in the sense that he was looking after himself. I can't comment of whether or not he is a 'boor' because I've never met him. But neither have you, so it's another example of you dealing in speculation - expressing an opinion about something you can't possibly know.

"I do agree with @PeterRS is that being a selfish boor probably represents rather "un-Japanese" behavior. "

I don't know much about Peter, but I do know he lived and worked in Tokyo. I'm guessing he was there for many years because his knowledge about Japan, its culture and its people is remarkable. 

He and I both know that, in general, Japanese are willing to sacrifice their own interests for the overall good of everyone else. I say ' in general' because it is not always the case. The Japanese are not masochists. If they feel strongly about something, they will put their own interests first, especially if, as in this case, they believe they have majority support.

"After all, he was the only holdout. "

I'm sorry, Unicorn, but you shouldn't make false claims based on ignorance of the situation. 

He was not the only one to hold out, and it is for this reason that the government had to move the original site of the airport 5 km away to the villages of Sanrizuka and Shibayama. In the end, half the farmers affected kept their land.

"Of course, I have no way of proving that he regrets his intransigence."

Well, in that case, don't make that claim. The fact that he turned down the compensation and is still farming the land today suggests he has no regrets, but neither you or I can know how he feels.

"However, only an insane person..."

Maybe his is. I have no idea as to the state of his mental health, and nor do you. Yet you are making this claim based on what you would do in the circumstances. 

"No telling what he could have made had he invested the money..."

Again, that's Western logic - grab the money and run because money is the most important thing in life. I explained earlier the Japanese logic behind his decision.

"I doubt this farmer's ancestors owned the land then,..."

They're you go, 'doubting' again. But this time, you're in luck - indeed, they did not own the land. Land ownership was introduced in Japan after the 1868 Meiji Restoration. 

However, unlike the US, Japanese society during the time of the shoguns was feudal. Farmers were just below priests but above artisans in the feudal heirachy, such was their importance in society. The land was farmed by pleasant families and it is from here that generational attachment to land began. The US experience is totally different, which is why I suggested someone from a relatively young country would not understand.

I mentioned earlier about the importance of knowing the Japanese language in order to understand their way of thinking. It goes for all countries and languages, not just Japan. 

Here's a very common expression which helps explain the farmer's thinking and beliefs:

七転び八起き (nana korobi ya oki) - fall 7 times, get up on the 8th. Hang in there when the going gets tough.

And here's one for you :

井の中の蛙大海を知らず (I no naka no kawazu taikai wo shirazu) a a frog that lives in a well can not know about the ocean.

And one more :

知らぬが仏 - Not knowing is Buddha. In other words, ignorance is bliss.

And one more (I can keep going, but you get the picture):

身の程 知らず - mi no Hodo shirazu. You are in way over your depth.

Unicorn, I'm not arguing with you - I'm simply explaining the situation to you from the point of view of an insider.

 

[unicorn]

Typing in a huge font is childish and doesn't make your argument any more persuasive. I, too, can bring up any number of proverbs from Western, Chinese, Japanese, Arab, or whatever culture to explain his behavior (or any other number of behaviors). The fact of the matter is that he was the only holdout, as in a number of other examples with which one can cull from around the globe. As I said, neither of us can know what's in the stubborn farmer's mind. What one can see is that he's either sorry or very foolish (or both). It is you who proclaimed, without any evidence to support it, that the "whole country" (your words) was behind the foolish farmer. That's pure fantasy and speculation on your part (you have declined providing evidence to the contrary, as I suspected). 

[a-447]

2 hours ago, unicorn said:

Typing in a huge font is childish and doesn't make your argument any more persuasive. I, too, can bring up any number of proverbs from Western, Chinese, Japanese, Arab, or whatever culture to explain his behavior (or any other number of behaviors). The fact of the matter is that he was the only holdout, as in a number of other examples with which one can cull from around the globe. As I said, neither of us can know what's in the stubborn farmer's mind. What one can see is that he's either sorry or very foolish (or both). It is you who proclaimed, without any evidence to support it, that the "whole country" (your words) was behind the foolish farmer. That's pure fantasy and speculation on your part (you have declined providing evidence to the contrary, as I suspected). 

"Typing in a huge font is childish and doesn't make your argument any more persuasive."

Wrong. Again.

The huge font is because I typed it into ipad Notes first and then copied and posted. That size font is probably not even available on this site.

"he was the only holdout"

Then explain why the government made the costly move to another location if you say it wasn't because many other farmers refused to sell. I'm dying to hear what you know to be the real reason is for that move. (What happens around the globe is irrelevant, as we are talking about Japan.)

"As I said, neither of us can know what's in the stubborn farmer's mind."

Actually, I think it was me who said that. You were the one claiming to be able to read the farmer's mind and thereby knowing how he feels about his decision, not me.

"What one can see is that he's either sorry or very foolish (or both)."

No, that's what you want to see. And you've just said that we can't see what's in his mind, so how do you know he's 'sorry'?

"It is you who proclaimed, without any evidence to support it, that the "whole country" (your words) was behind the foolish farmer. That's pure fantasy and speculation on your part (you have declined providing evidence to the contrary, as I suspected)."
 

There you go, 'suspecting' again.
I told you that I hadn't done a survey, but that it was the overwhelming sentiment in Japan at the time. How do I know that?

Because I was living in Tokyo at the time and you weren't.  

Because I watched it on TV every night and you didn't.

Because I was reading it in the media and you weren't.

Because I was talking to Japanese people and you weren't.

Now, please address the points I made in my previous post. You know, how you could suspect that something happened when it was  10,000 km away and 50 years ago. Or what evidence you have to support your claim that only a small minority supported him. Or how you can judge his feelings of regret. Our how you decided he was 'insane'.
You conveniently forgot to explain how you came to these conclusiions.

Unicorn, I'm loving this! But without explaining anything and just speculating and making wild, uneducated claims based on your own beliefs, instead of facts, makes you look a little foolish. 

[unicorn]

21 hours ago, a-447 said:

...I told you that I hadn't done a survey, but that it was the overwhelming sentiment in Japan at the time. How do I know that?

Because I was living in Tokyo at the time and you weren't...

There you go again, stating I couldn't know what was going on because I wasn't there. However, unlike yourself, I look at these matters with an open mind, and suspected your statement that the "whole country" was behind the stubborn farmer was BS. Of course, you have failed to show any evidence to support your statement. So I did look the matter up, confirming my suspicion that your beliefs are just your own little fantasy:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sanrizuka_Struggle

"...The struggle was led by the Sanrizuka-Shibayama United Opposition League against Construction of the Narita Airport[1] (ja:三里塚芝山連合空港反対同盟, Sanrizuka-Shibayama Rengo Kūkō Hantai Dōmei), which locals formed under the leadership of opposition parties the Communist Party and Socialist Party. The struggle resulted in significant delays in the opening of the airport, as well as deaths on both sides. At its height, the union mobilized 17,500 people for a general rally, while thousands of riot police were brought in on several occasions...". 

I would hardly characterize 17,500 people as "the whole country." And, in examining how popular those two parties are in Japan, I discovered that the Japan Socialist Party doesn't even exist anymore, and that the Japanese Communist Party now has 11/248 members in the House of Councillors, and 8/465 members in the House of Representatives. So we're talking about a small (albeit vocal) minority. They're nowhere nearly even a plurality, much less "the whole country." 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Diet

So, you may stay in your fantasy world, while I deal with reality.

[Keithambrose]

1 hour ago, unicorn said:

There you go again, stating I couldn't know what was going on because I wasn't there. However, unlike yourself, I look at these matters with an open mind, and suspected your statement that the "whole country" was behind the stubborn farmer was BS. Of course, you have failed to show any evidence to support your statement. So I did look the matter up, confirming my suspicion that your beliefs are just your own little fantasy:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sanrizuka_Struggle

"...The struggle was led by the Sanrizuka-Shibayama United Opposition League against Construction of the Narita Airport[1] (ja:三里塚芝山連合空港反対同盟, Sanrizuka-Shibayama Rengo Kūkō Hantai Dōmei), which locals formed under the leadership of opposition parties the Communist Party and Socialist Party. The struggle resulted in significant delays in the opening of the airport, as well as deaths on both sides. At its height, the union mobilized 17,500 people for a general rally, while thousands of riot police were brought in on several occasions...". 

I would hardly characterize 17,500 people as "the whole country." And, in examining how popular those two parties are in Japan, I discovered that the Japan Socialist Party doesn't even exist anymore, and that the Japanese Communist Party now has 11/248 members in the House of Councillors, and 8/465 members in the House of Representatives. So we're talking about a small (albeit vocal) minority. They're nowhere nearly even a plurality, much less "the whole country." 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Diet

So, you may stay in your fantasy world, while I deal with reality.

This is getting really boring. 

[a-447]

Warning, Unicorn!

I'm cutting and pasting from Notes on my ipad again. (Just thought I'd get in early)

"There you go again, stating I couldn't know what was going on because I wasn't there."

Let me see if I've got this right. So you're saying that not being an eye witness to an event is the same as actually being there.I think you should tell that to media outlets who employ foreign correspondents at great expense. I'm sure they'd withdraw them immediately.

"..... the Communist Party and Socialist Party."

I've already told you that the conservative farmers aligned with their sworn enemies - the leftists. (And I didn't need Wikipedia!) Are you making a new point now? If so, what is it?

"I would hardly characterize 17,500 people as "the whole country."

Nor would I. 

Then again, I never suggested that 109 million people all turned up to Narita to protest. You've missed the point. 

"while I deal with reality."

No, you deal with speculation, illogical and irrelevant comparisons and forays into mind reading of a farmer you know nothing about.

You wrote this in one of your posts in this thread :

"When you jump to conclusions without knowing the facts, you just demonstrate yourself as someone who forms his opinions first, then ignores any facts which don't jibe with his opinions. Something doesn't become true just because you want it to be true."

I couldn't agree more!

Keithambrose wrote:

"This is getting really boring."

Not for me, Keith. Fighting against sheer ignorance can be fun at times!

 

[unicorn]

8 hours ago, Keithambrose said:

This is getting really boring. 

Some might agree, but with 10,000 views, most apparently don't agree. This string has had far more views than almost any other in recent memory. Those who truthfully agree with that sentiment will simply stop viewing. 

[unicorn]

4 hours ago, a-447 said:

...I've already told you that the conservative farmers aligned with their sworn enemies - the leftists. (And I didn't need Wikipedia!)...

Well, if you don't agree with my sources, you're more than welcome to provide your own. However, your opinions and statements seem to come from your overly-active imagination. So I will have to call bullshit on your completely unsupported statements.