Bangkok Freshboys.... or?

[twisted123]

how many hours usually is long time?

[Keithambrose]

1 hour ago, twisted123 said:

how many hours usually is long time?

'A word means what I want it to mean'...  Alice in Wonderland 

[vinapu]

9 hours ago, twisted123 said:

how many hours usually is long time?

for me it means  till breakfast. I always ask my long time guys  if they want to eat something before we go to hotel and invite them for a breakfast in the morning.

About half declines  breakfast invitation but almost all are happy to have evening meal, no doubt their reasoning is ' more time I spend in restaurant , it leaves less time  to be with that boring old troll  ( i.e me ) in his room".

Since long time involves substantial outlay of money feel free to set your conditions. Boy will will free to invent some stupid excuses to do  less than agreed and / or leave earlier. My favorite excuse was short time boy  saying I need to go because I parked my motorbike in wrong spot and police may take it and asking for taxi money in the next sentence. 

[jason1975]

My personal interpretation of long time is sex at least twice. The first time is arrive in hotel room after coming back from bar. Then sleep. Wake up and second round of sex. After that breakfast is up to guy. Timing varies. Some guys leave at 6am. Some guys leave at 9am.

[vinapu]

23 hours ago, jason1975 said:

I am surprised that you wrote about the 10k tip you paid. When you told me about it in person last month after I asked you in private, I was sure you would not want to reveal it in public forum. Now that you have revealed it, I hope there were no nasty personal messages sent to you to scold you. 

I personally will not pay that much. The most I would pay would be 8k for long time for a model which is double of average rate of 4k for long time. Last year, I was crazy over Moonlight's Boss. But I consider myself happily settled down with my guy at the moment.

I'm glad you found guy you are happy with. 

I remember days you were salivating over Boss but it looks somehow you got over it and found better object of adoration.

Yes , I was expected that my (over)tip will create some reaction as nothing excites us more than other's money ,  but no,  it went unnoticed. Either fame of me me being guy which swears in 7 languages spread and did the silencing job or ,  most probably,  my trip report being long and boring made most stopping reading  and did not go that far.

Bkkmfj explained it perfectly in other post. After Jey Spa guy offered all night fun for 10000 and after much deliberation I decided to skip that option and to this day I'm not sure I did right thing,  this time I decided to get the  guy I  pursued for a good while at whatever cost will be . He looks great and I got great feedback from trusted forum friend and I'm happy I did . My  mind is at ease now. Was it worth? for ease of mind, definitely yes. For experience  I'd say yes as well. I got everything I expected.  Will I repeat ? not sure. While everything worked , I think bit chemistry was missing.

Will I pay again that much ? If I have money AND see the guy warranting it, answer is yes. 

But generally 5000 is max I'm willing to fork out for long time and truth to be told I know quite a few excellent guys who don't even expect that much.   

[jason1975]

2 hours ago, vinapu said:

He looks great and I got great feedback from trusted forum friend and I'm happy I did . My  mind is at ease now. Was it worth? for ease of mind, definitely yes. For experience  I'd say yes as well. I got everything I expected.  Will I repeat ? not sure. While everything worked , I think bit chemistry was missing.

Will I pay again that much ? If I have money AND see the guy warranting it, answer is yes. 

But generally 5000 is max I'm willing to fork out for long time and truth to be told I know quite a few excellent guys who don't even expect that much.   

Chemistry is difficult to predict. But glad you got what you wanted.

Even though I won't spend 10k on any guy for one night, I do end up spending 10k in one night when I off several guys and take them to karaoke or play pool. And there's also nights when I order a bottle of whisky in bar and give tips generously including garlands. They easily add up to 10k.

[macaroni21]

5 hours ago, jason1975 said:

My personal interpretation of long time is sex at least twice. The first time is arrive in hotel room after coming back from bar. Then sleep. Wake up and second round of sex. After that breakfast is up to guy.

That's my interpretation too, but nowadays, that's purely theoretical. I don't do long time anymore. I don't sleep well with a stranger in my bed and past a certain age, the self- inflicted expectation to have to cum again in the morning, a mere 6-7 hours after the last "episode", is more like a chore.

[macaroni21]

After years of being on this forum - membership being surely one of the pleasures of life - I reckon there are four "desires" among those of us looking for paid hookups. 

1. A simulacrum of romance (possibly leading to a real relationship);

2. Quickie sex;

3. Quickie sex Latin American style, otherwise known as being pounded to injury by donkey dongs;

4. Massage with erotic finish.

If (1) is not a priority, longtime might not make any sense. Personally, (4) is my top priority followed by (2), so I don't miss not doing longtime.

[floridarob]

4 hours ago, vinapu said:

truth to be told I know quite a few excellent guys who don't even expect that much.   

Bingo.

[ichigo]

2 hours ago, macaroni21 said:

I don't do long time anymore. I don't sleep well with a stranger in my bed

Same same as me. I have done long time a few times (mostly at the request of the boy) but for me I much prefer short time.

[spoon]

3 hours ago, macaroni21 said:

After years of being on this forum - membership being surely one of the pleasures of life - I reckon there are four "desires" among those of us looking for paid hookups. 

1. A simulacrum of romance (possibly leading to a real relationship);

2. Quickie sex;

3. Quickie sex Latin American style, otherwise known as being pounded to injury by donkey dongs;

4. Massage with erotic finish.

If (1) is not a priority, longtime might not make any sense. Personally, (4) is my top priority followed by (2), so I don't miss not doing longtime.

Im in between 1 and 4. But not looking for a real relationship, rather for finding more regulars that are dependable

[vinapu]

4 hours ago, jason1975 said:

Chemistry is difficult to predict. But glad you got what you wanted.

Even though I won't spend 10k on any guy for one night, I do end up spending 10k in one night when I off several guys and take them to karaoke or play pool. And there's also nights when I order a bottle of whisky in bar and give tips generously including garlands. They easily add up to 10k.

to be honest , I'd rather spend 10 000 my way

[vinapu]

7 minutes ago, spoon said:

Im in between 1 and 4. But not looking for a real relationship, rather for finding more regulars that are dependable

+1

I like long time because it provided nice feeling of waking up in the morning with something hard in hand and it's not hard cash by the way

[jason1975]

56 minutes ago, vinapu said:

+1

I like long time because it provided nice feeling of waking up in the morning with something hard in hand and it's not hard cash by the way

I like long time too!

[bkkmfj2648]

10 hours ago, macaroni21 said:

4. Massage with erotic finish.

In the last year, I have seemed to moved from #4 to #1.

10 hours ago, macaroni21 said:

1. A simulacrum of romance (possibly leading to a real relationship);

I met my #1 (massage guy) because I liked his massages and I then commissioned him to organize 2 of my 3 to 4 weekly four hand massages for me.  He was so good at it I found myself falling in love with him.  But, it has not been easy - because the lifestyle of an "ex-money boy" is not exactly aligned with my lifestyle - especially when it comes to how we utilize the 24 hours in a day.  Often when I am waking up in the morning he is returning to his room to go to sleep after being up all night over on Jomtien soi 12.  So, this often creates friction - as I cannot do anything with him prior to 3pm.  But, where we are aligned - for the nightlife it is often great and so much fun.  It's those daylight hours that I long to have a partner with me.  A good friend of mine told me that I need 1 more boyfriend to fill in the gap for the daylight hours - I said, NO WAY, as I would go broke.....

So, I am not sure that this will last over the long run - even though I am envious of @Min and @jason1975 as they both seem happy in their relationships - as they were the ones who gave me inspiration to give my ex-money boy a try for "A simulacrum of romance......"

[macaroni21]

I'm not sure I could tolerate a regular who spends his time playing beach volleyball into the night. It would frustrate me no end.

I am quite happy to accept that I am an incorrigible butterfly. I would not want a relationship with any moneyboy in Thailand. I've had enough trouble maintaining a relationship in my home country with partners who share my own culture, language and of similar socio-economic status; I am almost allergic to relationships now.

But I have had regulars - I think @spoon mentioned such arrangements too. These are guys I see most times that I come to Thailand; we fully understand it is transactional all the same, but it's distinctly easier and more comfortable for both of us to be transacting with someone we know and see from time to time.

They don't last for very long; 2 - 3 years would be typical. for one reason or another, they vanish or they go back to their home towns and we don't see each other anymore, and soon lose touch. However, I can think of two of them who have definitely made something of their post-moneyboy lives - and I am so proud of them. Two more might have made something of their lives, but I lost touch with them quite soon after so I cannot be sure their new careers were sustained. 

Of the two that I am proud of, the more recent one now has a steady, proper job with an airline. He's not cabin crew, but in ground operations, based in Suvarnabhumi. As for the earlier one, that was 20 years ago. He decided to leave the massage business and go back to his Isaan town. He enrolled in a nursing school and graduated as a certified nurse. He has done well ever since. He must be 50 years old now, and perhaps a senior nurse in a local hospital.

I can recall two others who also looked like they made a switch for a better career than sex work: One became a musican in a band, and last I heard, they were touring provincial towns perhaps singing at weddings. The other had to rush back to his hometown when his father had a stroke. Apparently the father ran a small motorocycle repair shop or something like that, and my moneyboy (whom I vaguely remember had a diploma in accounting or some such discipline) had to help fill the void in the business. A year later, a mutual friend told me my ex-moneyboy was now the boss. I haven't been in contact, and I wouldn't want to embarrass him by trying to keep in contact.

In short, I tend to choose level-headed people to be my regulars. They are level-headed enough to know that our relationship is not ever going to be a love relationship; they never ask for money beyond services rendered (if they did they would be cut off in an instant). But their level-headedness also means they are likely to keep control over their lives and they plan forward. That said, some others have just disappeared and I have no idea what they've made of their lives. But these four - the fact that they have moved on gives me a warm feeling.

 

[Lucky]

"He must be 50 years old now..."

My first trip to Thailand was in 1987. Assuming the guys I went with were around 20 years old, they'd be nearing 60 today. Wow.

[Min]

5 hours ago, Lucky said:

"He must be 50 years old now..."

My first trip to Thailand was in 1987. Assuming the guys I went with were around 20 years old, they'd be nearing 60 today. Wow.

You might've slept with his grandson without knowing it.

[PeterRS]

Like others, during my visiting butterfly days I fell in love quite a few times only to fall out again relatively quickly. But as a butterfly that never seemed to faze me. It was just par for the course. Now I realise that there are some - perhaps more than I realise - who do form lasting relationships with money boys that are rewarding in many ways without involving hard cash for services rendered. Some foreigners live here with their bfs; others have visited regularly over many years.

I do sometimes reminisce and wonder what happened to all those with whom I enjoyed such amazing times and on whom I had that mad sudden crush. I hope they have done well in life, and I hope none succumbed to AIDS which was not even on the horizon when I started visiting. I suspect, though, in both cases some did not fare as well as others.

I just wish that those in such a relationship now are able to compromise with someone who has a very different lifestyle. Maybe it will turn out that he will not be the one for you. On the other hand, all young guys have their own habits, likes and dislikes. It we never compromise, surely we lay ourselves open to never enjoying a meaningful, enjoyable and fun relationship, the more so when there is a very large age gap.

Oops, apologies! Sermonising!

[Ruthrieston]

When I moved to live in Pattaya in 2011 I was the proverbial butterfly, having three young gentlemen visiting each day, but in less than a year I fell in love. As he was less than half my age I paid for him to have a room, and I encouraged him to have a job, and he worked as a receptionist in a hotel. After six and a half years I discovered that he was gambling and he asked me to pay his debts a couple of times, which I did. But I then broke off with him as I could not trust him and could not afford to go on paying his debts. Then Covid hit and I continued to pay small amounts into his bank account until the pandemic lifted, then I stopped. Breaking up with him broke my heart and I cried for a year. Never again! 

[bkkmfj2648]

9 hours ago, macaroni21 said:

I am quite happy to accept that I am an incorrigible butterfly. I would not want a relationship

I was the same.  But, I notice as the years move forward, my butterfly wings have aged and don't give me as much flight like I had before when I was younger - because......

9 hours ago, macaroni21 said:

I am almost allergic to relationships now.

I am starting to reach that dreaded age when my mom's dementia started to commence - and in 2021 during the pandemic, she passed away from dementia.  Her mother (my grandmother) died from dementia and now my mother's sister (my aunt) is in full bore dementia mode.  So, my doctor told me to be alert - as this disease can be hereditary.

So, now living in the retirement community of Jomtien and frequently visiting the Jomtien Complex (aka Supertown) and seeing all of the elderly retirees here with their designated Asian "helpers" (as I observe from a distance - I do not know their actual relationships - so I gave them the label "helpers") they all seem sorted out for their eventual demise and death here in Thailand.

So, in light of the above, my heart is moving from the "incorrigible butterfly" to wanting a relationship, knowing that someone(s) will be able to take care of me IF I would also succumb to dementia.  So, I feel that I still have 6 years to find that person - hence my initial sense of urgency - as this person(s) would need to be eventually given control of my finances to facilitate the cash flows to allow for my care until my demise and their care for taking care of me.....

Since TRUST is the key operative word here - one needs time to understand who he can trust.  Can I manage it within the next 6 years?

So, my question to you @macaroni21 (and any other forum member) is:

by being "allergic to relationships", are you willing to accept to die alone or to not have anyone by your side to take care of you in your last fragile years ?

[floridarob]

1 hour ago, Ruthrieston said:

Breaking up with him broke my heart and I cried for a year. Never again! 

This is the part of the which costs more, sex for free or sex for money....

The broken hearts, lies, disappointments that accompanies free sex ..... you will pay for dearly.

[macaroni21]

42 minutes ago, bkkmfj2648 said:

So, my question to you @macaroni21 (and any other forum member) is:

by being "allergic to relationships", are you willing to accept to die alone or to not have anyone by your side to take care of you in your last fragile years ?

A key difference is that I have no intention of retiring in a foreign country least of all one that does not have infrastructure for aging. I have solid relationships with my blood family. Furthermore, in my home country there are legal systems for powers of attorney, retirement homes, subsidised medical care, etc. Sure, it won't be cheap like in Thailand, but I just can't see how trusting a moneyboy to somehow show reliability and financial responsibility is a better concept.

[PeterRS]

7 minutes ago, floridarob said:

The broken hearts, lies, disappointments that accompanies free sex ..... you will pay for dearly.

Sorry but I do not agree. Sure, that does happen and it can cost a great deal in emotional and other turmoil. But free sex does not always imply that the relationship will break down. Since my butterfly days, I have entered into this kind of relationship - but well aware that the large age gap might eventually result in heartache. Twice it has. The second time I almost swore off forming any relationship. And then my partner suddenly appeared by clicking on me on one of the apps I had intended to delete. I never thought it could develop in the longer term. It has for several years now and shows no sign of ending. I'll settle for this any day.

33 minutes ago, bkkmfj2648 said:

. . . my heart is moving from the "incorrigible butterfly" to wanting a relationship, knowing that someone(s) will be able to take care of me IF I would also succumb to dementia. 

I think dementia is one of those illnesses older gay guys living in Thailand fear most. I have one friend whom I knew even before moving to Asia and with whom I worked on many projects - he in London and me in Asia - over the years. He is one of the lucky ones. When his half Thai/halfEnglish partner was informed my friend had the onset of dementia in 2019, he made the wise move to relocate from the UK to Chiang Mai. Although my friend's memory is now totally gone, his partner still cares for him.

I think we should remember that there are several very pleasant facilities in what are normally called care homes in various parts of the country. I know of three just outside Chiang Mai. One of my clients (straight) recently enrolled a dear gay friend approaching 80 in one after his boyfriend of several years, having learned about the onset of dementia, disappeared with their car and several valuables from their home. She tells me that her friend is very happy there and the fees are incredibly inexpensive. The homes run a shuttle minibus service to Chiang Mai several times a day and when he first moved, he was still able occasionally to be part of the gay scene. No longer, alas, as the illness has progressed. The important point is we don't have to be alone! 

[bkkmfj2648]

8 minutes ago, PeterRS said:

I think dementia is one of those illnesses older gay guys living in Thailand fear most.

yes - this is my number ONE worry and it is now more so than where will my next orgasm come from.

As @macaroni21 mentions - I could also move back to my home country - but I could not afford to - as my mother's monthly dementia costs in an assisted living care center specialized for dementia was around $10,000 USD per month.  I could never afford this.  Also, I visited her in this center many times and to live there would be like to go back into the closet in your last years of life.  Why go back into the closet when I fought so hard in the 1980s to come out of the closet?

So, I will stay here in South East Asia - as that is what I can afford and I would not need to be put back into the closet - at least here in Thailand.

I want dignity in those last years and to be part of an elderly gay retirement community.

@PeterRS do you know of any end-of-life care centers that are outside of Chiang Mai?  Perhaps here in Chon Buri ?