Members stevenkesslar Posted February 17 Members Posted February 17 Donald Trump’s betrayal of Ukraine has emboldened Vladimir Putin and pulled the rug from under Nato allies Quote The global ramifications of last week’s watershed American capitulation will be widely felt. China will be emboldened by this spectacular, self-harming rupture inside the western alliance. It’s probably fair to say an invasion of Taiwan, threatened by President Xi Jinping, has moved appreciably closer. Russia’s rogue allies, Iran and North Korea, will also relish western disarray. Quote Is it too late to turn this around? Europe’s claims to be a global player have been torpedoed. America’s reputation as guarantor of peace, security and the UN-charter-based rule of law is shot. It’s a red letter day for the axis of autocrats and authoritarians everywhere. The Trump doctrine has been unveiled: might makes right, the weak go to the wall. Couldn't have said it better myself. So I'll ask this question. Both of these things are a permanent stain on the US. And neither are as bad as slavery. But which is worse: 1) the invasion of Iraq, or 2) the betrayal of Ukraine and our allies? In many ways the obvious answer feels like one. The Iraq invasion killed hundreds of thousands of people, at least, and set off a horrific chain of events. We broke it. With Iraq, the morally clear position seemed to be fierce opposition. To me, at least. It was easy for me to compartmentalize it as America at its worst. I can make a good argument for Ukraine being an even bigger stain. Because, at least in my eyes, this is what happens when America is at its best. Like allies all over the globe, we spent lots and lots of money, and opened our hearts. I think Europeans were actually more giving, and made more sacrifices. Because they opened their countries, homes, and schools. We did prevent Ukraine from being swallowed up whole, and losing the democracy Ukrainians clearly want. And if they could not win an actual victory, that is nobody's fault but Putin's, at least in my eyes. He broke Ukraine. And yet, here we are. Fickle and unreliable. That's us. vinapu 1 Quote
Members stevenkesslar Posted February 19 Author Members Posted February 19 Trump snaps back at Zelensky, blaming Ukraine for the war An absolute stunning betrayal of America, Ukraine, NATO, the EU, and the world. The template for all of this was January 6th. Once America decides the rule of law and and the values we have preached don't matter anymore, we are deeply fucked. And we deserve it. I don't even think our Lord and Savior can fix this one. He's the one who fucked it up. Quote
Members Pete1111 Posted February 19 Members Posted February 19 I can't understand how the US Aerospace and Defense industry is pro Trump. Maybe it's old thinking that Repubs increase defense spending. Yet will NATO buy American weapons after Trump shits all over them and Ukraine? Frankly, it seems Trump is fucking up a lot of trading partnerships, and potentially fucking up domestic businesses that rely on immigrant labor. When will the private sector revolt? Stable Genius and stevenkesslar 2 Quote
Members stevenkesslar Posted February 19 Author Members Posted February 19 10 hours ago, Pete1111 said: When will the private sector revolt? LOL. Are you kidding? This is a massive looting on behalf of special interest billionaire donors and Wall Street and corporate interests. Looting doesn't quite capture the intent. Because it is not just about the tax cuts. Wall Street and megabanks will be delighted that the consumer protections that helped working class Trump voters at agencies like the CFPB are being gutted. I'm a bit surprised, actually, that in polls people view the CFPB (huh? what's that?) more favorably than Musk. It proves a lot of people are paying attention. It's funny that Republican Senators are whining about how the cuts to USAID will hurt their farmers, who sell USAID the food that stops people from dying. Does anyone think Musk gives a flying fuck? He is an egomaniac who wants to save the human race by taking us to Mars. Putting food on the table? He sucks at that. The Democrats absolutely need to reconnect with farmers and labor. I went to college in Minnesota, and saw my college professor figure out how to end an era of Republican dominance and win a US Senate seat by fighting like hell for farmers and labor and the working class. That is what the Democratic Party (the Democratic Farmer Labor Party in Minnesota) used to be. Walz has done a good job at that. Both as a House member, who represented the district I went to school in, and as a Guv. He learned how to be a populist at Camp Wellstone. The Democratic Party needs to go back to its winning roots. Big business is not going to ride to the rescue. They will enjoy, and profit from, the looting. Quote
Members Pete1111 Posted February 21 Members Posted February 21 On 2/19/2025 at 11:52 AM, stevenkesslar said: LOL. Are you kidding? This is a massive looting on behalf of special interest billionaire donors and Wall Street and corporate interests. Looting doesn't quite capture the intent. Because it is not just about the tax cuts. Wall Street and megabanks will be delighted that the consumer protections that helped working class Trump voters at agencies like the CFPB are being gutted. I'm a bit surprised, actually, that in polls people view the CFPB (huh? what's that?) more favorably than Musk. It proves a lot of people are paying attention. It's funny that Republican Senators are whining about how the cuts to USAID will hurt their farmers, who sell USAID the food that stops people from dying. Does anyone think Musk gives a flying fuck? He is an egomaniac who wants to save the human race by taking us to Mars. Putting food on the table? He sucks at that. The Democrats absolutely need to reconnect with farmers and labor. I went to college in Minnesota, and saw my college professor figure out how to end an era of Republican dominance and win a US Senate seat by fighting like hell for farmers and labor and the working class. That is what the Democratic Party (the Democratic Farmer Labor Party in Minnesota) used to be. Walz has done a good job at that. Both as a House member, who represented the district I went to school in, and as a Guv. He learned how to be a populist at Camp Wellstone. The Democratic Party needs to go back to its winning roots. Big business is not going to ride to the rescue. They will enjoy, and profit from, the looting. Trump just told defense contractors the Pentagon must reduce spending by 8%, in each of the next 5 years. So yeah, I really wonder if defense and aerospace sector has buyers remorse. Trump is a lame duck president, so he might not worry too much. As long as he succeeds as a good power bottom for Putin, it seems he is on track for that piece of his agenda. stevenkesslar 1 Quote
Members stevenkesslar Posted February 21 Author Members Posted February 21 2 hours ago, Pete1111 said: Trump just told defense contractors the Pentagon must reduce spending by 8%, in each of the next 5 years. So yeah, I really wonder if defense and aerospace sector has buyers remorse. Trump is a lame duck president, so he might not worry too much. As long as he succeeds as a good power bottom for Putin, it seems he is on track for that piece of his agenda. The whole thing is a stunning betrayal. Both of people outside the US - like Ukraine and democracies everywhere - and to his own voters. It will take years to understand the consequences. But they won't be good. What we know now is that Putin is happy, and Xi is happier still. It is a huge incentive for Xi to invade Taiwan and bring war to Asia. Why not? The US is feckless. I assume the people around Trump who are smarter than him think of this as realist politics: defocus on Russia to focus on China. But even if I start with that premise, it makes zero sense to start that by saying, "See. If you invade and have a genocide, no problem." That is what Trump just did. I'm all for cutting waste in the military. I find it hard to believe you can cut 8 % a year for five years without fucking over veterans. That is assuming Trump means what he says. Which is, of course, always a bad assumption. Republicans have already figured out they can not cut Musk's taxes without also cutting the Medicaid and food assistance Trump voters use. GOP House members in swing Hispanic districts are already complaining about it. As you said, Trump can not run again. So maybe he just doesn't care if they piss off Hispanics and veterans. Maybe it is about retribution against all the things in the national and global order that Trump feels grievances about. Quote
