OK. I agree to some extent with everything you're saying. But, let me say for one final time: Anyone, moving anywhere has to take submerging themselves into another language and culture very seriously indeed.

 

I will check out this learning method as before moving to the corporate world I was a teacher and the idea of effortless is a little hard to accept. You're right that literacy and language are not the same it was the statistic I could find and for lack of better information, I believe that a ven diagram would show an intersect of the two issues.

 

I have no doubt that tones will come for most of us. My German, for example. is rusty. I'm never sure if I'm switching into Mom's Wienerisch or high German. I do know that I'm horribly rusty as my parents are long gone. But, yes it would come and all the genders of words would work out.

 

Your last sentence is the only thing I heartily disagree with. Language comfort and acquisition is a retirement out of the country issue and must be given consideration.

 

Otherwise, this was a great chat and, everyone please forgive me, much for interesting to me than a discussion of the merits of the hunks at Moonlight or Jupiter. Please don't everyone pile on at once and I hope Vinapu does not read this. 

A final note from me:  Prof Noam Chomsky at MIT created the idea of a "Language Acquisition Device" which is supposedly innate.  His theory fell short of explaining why some of us can/do learn other languages and why some can/do not.    For all of Dr. Chomsky's learned speculation, it remained just that -- speculation.

OK. I agree to some extent with everything you're saying. But, let me say for one final time: Anyone, moving anywhere has to take submerging themselves into another language and culture very seriously indeed.

I won't disagree with that. That's what I do, and I mostly avoid hanging out with other western expats. 

 

 

I will check out this learning method as before moving to the corporate world I was a teacher and the idea of effortless is a little hard to accept.

Believe me, it works. As adults we do not lose the ability to effortlessly pick up language. The only thing we gain as adults is the mental capability to ask questions and pressure ourselves, which are things kids do not do when acquiring a language. If we switch of our intellect and just immerse in the language with comprehensible input ((as provided by AUA, sadly apparently the only place in Thailand and possibly the world to do so) we do pick up the language in the same way as children do, and that is effortless. I am living example that it does work. I am lazy and especially too lazy to study anything which involves self-discipline and homework etc. That's one reason I chose that program, because it promised to cater to my laziness, yet be effective. And so it was. Also, the result is that it feels rather natural to speak Thai. 

 

Anyway, thanks for the chat, too :-)

Anddy you should also remember that as you get older for most people learning, along with hearing, gets more difficult.

it must be true, my father used to say '  now when somebody says 'take it ' I can hear but when they say ' give me' I seem to be getting deaf '  

 

Otherwise, this was a great chat and, everyone please forgive me, much for interesting to me than a discussion of the merits of the hunks at Moonlight or Jupiter. Please don't everyone pile on at once and I hope Vinapu does not read this. 

he just did and you can sleep well,  Vinapu is not short of self esteem and understands that different people may have different interests and opinions .

 

While I can discuss merits of hunks  from those bars mentioned to no end , switch to twinks from Classic vs. XBoys and I rather watch paint dry so I got your point. 

 

I found that linguistic discussion above interesting and enlightening as well  and don't see any problem with thread being bit derailed as subject of speaking or not  language certainly can weigh heavily on decision of living in other country. Speaking from first hand experience , believe me.

 

If I was speaking Thai I certainly wouldn't admit it to bar and massage boys as this could be secret weapon - understanding what they are saying without them knowing that.

 

And don't assume they say bad things - at least on two occasions, at Arena and Tawan , boys not keen to go with me long time changed their mind after their colleague told them something and chances are it was not something unpleasant about me. 

While I can discuss merits of hunks  from those bars mentioned to no end , switch to twinks from Classic vs. XBoys and I rather watch paint dry so I got your point. . 

 

To be fair, you have actually set foot in places like Classic Boys, whereas I've never even considered setting foot in Tawan, based on what I see standing outside.       So you're even qualified to comment.

At one time or another, I go everywhere since you never know until you try. I like classic boys but loathe the mamasans there.  I've been to Jupiter and I appreciate their beauty but like a smaller, slimmer yet toned type. Tawan? Last time I was there the guys were muscular all right. But, seemed chubby, some fat - sort of muscled guys too fond of beer.

 

Yipes, I just remembered this is the retirement thread.

To be fair, you have actually set foot in places like Classic Boys, whereas I've never even considered setting foot in Tawan, based on what I see standing outside.       So you're even qualified to comment.

I don't discriminate between bars, have my preferences but there's no bar I'd would not be interested to enter.

 

Not only I was in classic few times but I also offed from there so sure I can say  word or two. I like their boys , they are just mostly not my type

Yipes, I just remembered this is the retirement thread.

 

No doubt someone will steer this back onto retirement very shortly.   

No doubt someone will steer this back onto retirement very shortly.

 

Your wish is my command. Just another piece of advice given to me many years ago, it was that if I ever moved to Thailand or the Philippines to retire it's best to keep my house here in Australia, that way if things don't work out in the chosen retirement country I would have something to return to.

We are engaged in pure speculation, which could go on interminably.  No one can say for sure why ex-pats do not learn to speak Thai.     I would still suggest that psychological factors and physiological factors must be considered since they are far from "rare". But I also do not have any evidence to support my view.

 

I suggest part of the reason is pure laziness! I immediately add that I only speak a little Thai and constantly kick myself for not learning more. Tones are common in English, it’s just that we use them for emphasis. I have friends who speak very good Thaii - not quite fluent but very close to it. I have an American friend who lives in Shanghai. He learned Mandarin Chinese at a langauge school in Taiwan and now also speaks Shanhainese and Canrtonese fluently. Lest you think they are the same, Mandarin has 4 basic tones whereas Cantonese has 9. Say the word “gow” in Cantonese and amongst others it can mean nine, a dog and a vital part of the male anatomy depending on the tone level you use. I understand British civil servants in Hong Kong pre the handover in 1997 had to take Cantonese courses and speak up to a reasonably decent level!

Before I retired, I had traveled around Asia and Europe.  So I knew exactly what place I wanted to retire to, and that place was Chiang Mai.  Once I got settled in, I made it a point to fall in love with every boy I met until I found one that could love back.

I would still be in Chiang Mai, but liked the idea of gay marriage, and the thought that US citizenship might be a good thing for a Thai man to have..  Will we return to Chiang Mai when he gets citizenship?  Maybe.

I can't resist going back to language for a moment. I found this in a piece called "the nine tones of hell" in the Los Angeles review of books.

 

"To outsiders, it seems half a miracle that the native Cantonese have learned to speak properly at all. I spent months puzzled by that miracle when my parents plopped me into Cantonese school for the first time in Grade 2, the fall after we moved to Hong Kong from Toronto in 1996. Maybe they assumed that because they spoke Cantonese to each other in front of their kids, I would pick it up naturally. Nope. I burst into tears in front of the whole class on day one, frustrated and flummoxed by my inability to communicate. I got in trouble for falling asleep in class because I couldn’t understand the teacher.

While English or French speakers can make a guess at pronunciation thanks to romanization, I had no way of knowing how to pronounce the characters in my Chinese textbook unless I memorized what my teacher said out loud. A handheld electronic Longman dictionary complete with speakers and a stylus became my savior. I would trace new characters (assuming I could guess the strokes correctly) into the keypad, and a robotic pronunciation would bleat back at me."

I can't resist going back to language for a moment.

 

I started a new thread for that, so we can carry on with the original topic here.

Before I retired, I had traveled around Asia and Europe. So I knew exactly what place I wanted to retire to, and that place was Chiang Mai. Once I got settled in, I made it a point to fall in love with every boy I met until I found one that could love back.

I would still be in Chiang Mai, but liked the idea of gay marriage, and the thought that US citizenship might be a good thing for a Thai man to have.. Will we return to Chiang Mai when he gets citizenship? Maybe.

You sound like a beutiful couple, I hope it works out well for both of you.