macaroni21

Thanks @Jhynx for your public service. Good news indeed. Did you partake of their services?

@jason1975 are you seeing this first hand because you're in Bkk, or are your spy-boys giving you this Intel?

Maybe this is good time to explain the different entry requirements since, from time to time, I come across posts in this forum that suggests some confusion. The confusion partly stems from different terms used by different countries. Basically, for tourism purposes (I won't be touching on longer stays) there are 4 broad types: What is described here in the OP is the 4th, which I will call "arrival notification". I will come back to this later. The first of the terminology is the visa. This is approval before you can enter a country. Visas come in 3 variants. Traditional visas often come as a sticker in your passport or a pdf document. The tourist has to apply in advance and get one before making any firm plans for the journey. Example: US citizens visiting Vietnam; Turkish citizens visiting China. Some countries, e.g. US make it necessary to interview the applicant at a consulate before issuing a visa and for some countries, e.g. Pakistan or Nigeria, visa applications are quite often denied. Some destination countries offer an e-visa service, so the tourist does not need to travel to an embassy of a destination country to obtain a traditional visa. I think Cambodia has an e-visa system. Some destination countries offer "visa on arrival" to tourists from selected origin countries. This tends to be the case when the destination country does not have an embassy or consulate in the origin country. Visas on arrival are not guaranteed, so one can end up flying all the way there and still be rejected. The second terminology category is the Visa Exemption or Visa-free. If a destination country offers visa exemption to citizens of an origin country, it means the latter citizens can enter (subject to very rare immigration ban) visa-free for a set number of days. Thailand offers visa exemption to a long list of origin countries. In the past decade or a bit more, the US has instituted an "authorisation to travel" and the EU is implementing something similar this year. This is the third terminology category. This complicates the visa-exemption category, because even tourists who should otherwise be eligible to enter without a visa must first get an "authorisation to travel" before they travel. It is usually issued very fast via an online service but still requires lengthy form filling and payment. Once issued, it is valid for multiple entries over a set number of years. Lastly, there is the arrival notification. Regardless of what category one fell under (visa or no visa), some countries require all travellers to still complete an arrival notification in the days or hours before flying in. This usually includes a health declaration (that's why is is done only just before arrival).

Not having a proper desk or desk-height table in the room is very frustrating. After a few such experiences I now look very carefully at photos of rooms to see if there's a desk before I book.

Those absurd prices were what I experienced in my visit pre-Covid, though with a bit of hard bargaining (exhausting!) I recall being able to get a discount on occasion, and the distances I wanted to travel were always longer than the 1 km from Thapae Gate to the Night Market (I would walk that distance). That was why on this recent trip I was using Grab except the fixed-price taxi that I took from airport Arrivals to hotel. But my policy is usually that any distance less than 3km is to be done on foot, so even Grab wasn't used much. As an example of Grab costs, a 6-km trip last December cost 126 baht, though of course the pricing would vary depending on traffic conditions, availability of drivers, etc.

I find it hard to imagine a customer (or group of customers intending to share a bottle) going through "all outlined above" like a pre-flight checklist, so in most situations some costs may not be explained until the bill arrives.

Thanks @colmx , that was very helpful. It kind of confirms that the whole concept is obviously meant for a different demographic of a customer from someone like me!

Even though I have no interest in relocating to Cebu - and a gogo bar visit costing 190 USD has done nothing to change my mind 😱 - I find this journal by @bkkmfj2648 a fascinating, engrossing read. Thanks for sharing. One tiny question: is Mr B the same as Mr M?

Because most of us forum members (including me) are isolated in an English-speaking corner, we may be unaware of any chatter in Chinese forums. I have a suspicion that there is considerable word-of-internet-mouth in those forums, maybe including Korean and Japanese too, about BoyzBoyzBoyz and Fresh Boys in Bangkok which also draws a significant number of Chinese tourists. What is a mystery to me is whether the interest in these bars came from marketing publicity that these bars themselves initiated in these languages or if it grew organically because some early visitors became "influencers" in their native language forums. Once female visitors become the target market, the bar obviously has to change its product offer from selling sex to merely selling titillation and entertainment. I'm not surprised that the roster of boys would have changed too, to those who are 100% straight, only interested in girls, and maybe slightly revolted by the idea of even touching another man. These would be the boys who have no interest in earning money from gay men; they'd sacrifice that extra income just for the thrill of flashing their body parts to girls every night and getting half-soused. Don't every one of us know of this type? The super-straight jock-wannabe?

I don't mean to sound like a wet blanket, but what struck me about the video was how empty of customers the bar was. I think there were only 2 in the far corner.

I'm not sure what @reader meant by "know how to please" but this bar is a drinking and conversation bar. I think the boss frowns on zippers coming down. The front door is always open to the street.

I think I was the first to report this, in December 2023, if I'm not wrong. I had just observed a small argument between an unhappy customer and a mamasan. A few minutes later, I asked two mamasans (separately) what their off fee was and was given the same figure of 800 baht. After that, Vinapu and others got the same information from the bar independently.

I find this intriguing. I assume this is in Pattaya. What, do you reckon, would the lower-end gogo bars (girls) charge for a barfine? Any clue if the bar gives a cut of that to the borrowed girl? If not, how do you think such a rate developed? This may partly explain why BoyzBoyzBoyz is reaching for 1,050 baht.

I have not been to the other building. What's special about the rooms there?

@a-447 You might have been there more recently than I have. My last visit was five years ago. How time flies! Located at Street 330, I remember that it had a little garden out front, but I don't remember any garden bar.

I went to Google maps. Three locations are marked. One ("Hatha KHmer Massage") at Street 330 a stone's throw from the Tuol Sleng Museum, is marked as permanently closed. Another location, at Street 368 ("Hatha Khmer Massage by Man") is also marked as permanently closed. The third location is on Street 386 "Hattha Massage" - is this a mistake where once upon a time, sometime confused St 368 wth St 386 and dropped the pin at the wrong place? Or is this a brand new location? Or a previous, previous location? Their website - not that websites should be trusted since these businesses may not have the skills to update them - still says Street 330. For what it's worth, it is https://hathakhmermassage.com/ Facebook pages with the names "Hatha Khmer Spa" and "Hatha Khmer Spa I" use the same logo. One is at https://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100054588093749 with the most recent post dated 19 December 2024. The other is at https://www.facebook.com/hathakhmerspa, with its most recent post dated 18 June 2024 - something about a grilled whole hog. However, a post dated 9 June 2024 says: "Please inform everyone who is a customer of our Haththa Khmer Massage Shop, please inform that our Hath Khmer Massage Shop at Street 330 House No. 18, Beoung Keng Kang District IIII will continue to open as usual. To Hatha Khmer Spa, our shop has been suspended for a while, we will find a new location, we will provide more information later. And thank you for customers who continue to support Hatha Khmer Spa shop. Thank you" Now I vaguely remember that once upon a long, long time, they had a cruising sauna and a massage shop at separate locations. In short, I am confused too but if I have to make a guess, I think they've gone out of business.

Many Japanese hotels frown on joiners, that's why the agencies say "some hotels". They can't really say for sure which because they're not in control of the situation. That's why they offer their own rooms as well. They're not great, more like love-hotel basic.

Phetboy's cashflow problem may be unique to this shop, but considering how other shops are also discounting, it seems to me that the market for lower end massage may be over-supplied. Meanwhile we have those like Glam's and Aurora pushing the limits price-wise. I wonder how healthy they are too. When the massage business and their prices are as competitive as this, it's no wonder that more and more tourists prefer to hire from the massage shops rather than the bars. This is particularly so for the Asian tourists, as often pointed out. They may be more price sensitive than the Westerner who tends to use US or European prices as benchmark.

What's their Line ID and physical address?

Then it's some kind of record for best kept secret! But if a white striped vehicle can be chartered at any time to take a different route, and the driver happily takes on other unsuspecting customers en route, how can we rely on the white stripe to mean what it's supposed to mean? I recall reading about this too.

It's the strangest advertising strategy I have ever seen among the massage parlours. 🤣

So... if a business has been renting for 20 years, and the key money (as was indicated for Circus) is 900,000 baht a year, and it's paid in cash, then when the lease ends, the landlord is supposed to return 18 million baht, presumably in cash? (The landlord would have kept the interest earned). If the landlord does not declare to the tax authorities, does he even issue a receipt? How is the return of the accumulated key money at the end of the lease enforceable in a court of law, in the event the landlord balks at returning the 18 million?

I can't answer the question (when did V Club start) with any precision. But I believe my first visit would have been around 1997 or 1998 (and I remember the place fondly). I am fairly certain it was around those years because V Club was then in a stand-alone bungalow house along Phahonyothin Soi 7, and there was no Chakran sauna yet. I can see from a websearch that Chakran sauna opened in year 2000. That's why I reckon my first visit would have been a few years before that. Not long after my first visit, there was talk of a new sauna (Chakran) in the neighbourhood. Even then, VClub remained a separate business in its separate location for a few years more. Then it moved into Chakran's building perhaps by 2005 or so. Perhaps Chakran's owners bought V Club; or both businesses had always shared the same owner and the owner consolidated V Club into Chakran's building after the lease on the bungalow house ran out.

From time to time, I see mention of "bottle service" in this forum. Of course I have also seen customers in bars with trolleys beside them well provisioned with 75cl bottles, mixers, ice buckets, etc. Not being much a drinker myself, I have never been such a customer, so out of pure curiosity, here are some basic and naive questions for those who know much more about this. My understanding is that when a customer has bought a bottle and does not finish it in one visit, the bar will keep the bottle for him for his subsequent visit(s), by writing the customer's name or some other identifier on the bottle, and marking the level of liquid as well. 1. Is my outline understanding correct? 2. Is there a time limit for the customer's return? (Presumably, if there is, then after the time limit, the bar would either dispose of the bottle or use the remaining liquid in the bottle for their own house pour). 3. Is there any charge for the customer who returns and asks for this bottle. Does the customer get to return as many times as he likes (within time limit, if any) for free (i.e. no entry charge) if he has a bottle waiting for him on the shelf? 4. Presumably, each visit the customer is likely to order mixers. What sort of prices do the bars charge for mixers and any charge for ice, etc? (A single-drink customer would have to pay 400 -500 baht for a can of Tonic, Soda or Coca Cola. If a bottle customer asked for a similar can as mixer, is he charged at a different rate? 5. If the customer calls a boy to sit with him, and offers the boy a drink served out of the same bottle, does the bar charge nothing? (for customers who order single drinks, the bar would charge a boy drink and earn money from that; the boy also gets maybe 50 or 100 baht from the boy drink). 6. Can a boy refuse a drink out of the bottle, e.g. saying "I don't drink alcohol." What usually happens then? 7. Do mamasans help themselves freely to the bottle? Or must they first be explicitly invited by the customer to partake? (I have seen mamasans - sometimes two of them - drink considerably from bottles and I have often wondered what the understanding between customer and mamasan was, or was the mamasan helping herself liberally in order to exhaust the bottle as soon as possible, it being her job to help the bar sell more bottles/drinks?). Hoping some members here can help answer the above....

I have experienced at least one occasion when the songthaew I boarded in Jomtien heading towards Pattaya and which I intended to ride all the way to Boyztown, unexpectedly turned right into Pattaya Tai road in the direction of Third Road and Sukhumvit Road. Of course I had to alight quickly as did some other passengers. Fortunately I could walk the rest of the way to Boyztown, but the others had to catch another songthaew to continue their journey north for another 10 baht fare. Similarly, there was one occasion when I was headed to Central mall but the songthaew turned right into Pattaya Klang Road instead of continuing up Second Road. This time, thought I might walk the rest of the way to Central, until it started to rain when I had to resort to flagging down another songthaew and expend another princely sum of ten baht for a 2-minute ride to my destination. On these occasions, the first passenger must have negotiated the route with the driver, but all the subsequent passengers, myself included, simply assumed it would travel the full length of Second Road to the dolphin circus. Or maybe there was a sign on the windshield to indicate the unusual route except that tourists like me were illiterate fools.