macaroni21

Very interesting intel. I can empathise with the poor leaseholder's decision. It sounds like one of those situations where the losses are smaller just paying the rent on unused space, compared to trying to open the business and losing money paying the rent plus bleeding red ink from operations. But what it means is that there is hope... though it is debatable how long it will take for Xi Jinping to change course. It only proves what I have said before. Lucky Boys was way too big a space. The business does not have the agility to adjust to circumstances that a smaller business would have.

Like Neyger and Vinapu, I travel at the back of the plane for leisure. I used to fly business class quite a bit but those were the days when others (company) paid the fare. I can appreciate the difference in service, but for me it all seems quite unnecessary. I'd rather spend the money on other things that are more important to me. It all seems quite unnecessary to me because I am lucky in a way. I am below average in height and I am able to keep my body mass index (BMI) under 25. So, an economy seat is OK for me. A premium economy would be plenty. One of the few blessings in life from being small-built. Other aspects discussed here are also unimportant to me. - Business class lounges? I don't want to sit while waiting to sit in the plane for the next several hours. I prefer to walk/explore the terminal, get some exercise while I can. - Nice food? I want to stay away from temptation to maintain my BMI. There's also the risk of bloating when air pressure is reduced at altitude, making sleep harder. - Drinks? Never really acquired a taste for that. I am no connoisseur of fine wines. A flatbed would be nice, I agree, but then I am able to sleep in a seat. I don't even own noise-cancellation earphones like Neyger. I have considered buying one, but my normal (wellpadded) earphones muffle cabin noise to a significant degree, and so far, they're good enough to help me sleep. Neyger's inflatable thing - I really don't know what to call it - is intriguing, but here's my question: How much huffing and puffing will it need to get inflated? In any case, I'm not sure that I would want to carry one more thing when my simple inflatable pillow seems good enough.

I was there last month. I was never directed to the service elevator, though I had previously read reports about that and was conscious of the possibility. However, I should add that the latest that I went back to Raya Hotel was probably around 11:30pm, at which hour I still used the front entrance and guest elevators. Perhaps those reports referred to the wee hours of the morning? Then again, nowhere did I see any signs put up by the hotel to alert guests that a detour might be required at some time in the night. So maybe it's no longer the case? By the way, my review of Raya was uploaded yesterday on my blog. https://shamelessmacktwo.travel.blog/2022/08/02/the-sequestered-fridge/

Last month, every trip I made between Jomtien and Pattaya, I used songtaews, and paid 10 baht each time, iincluding the time I went all the way to Terminal 21. On no occasion did I have to wait more than 3 minutes for a songtaew to come by. Likewise each time when I boarded a songtaew at South Pattaya Road x Second Road for the trip back to Jomtien, on no occasion did I have to wait more than 3 minutes for the vehicle to fill up with passengers and get going. I can't imagine why I would ever need to spend 60 baht or 100 baht.

They've dug up some 500 metres of Thappraya Road, starting from the South Pattaya Road junction towards Jomtien. It's normally a narrow two-lane road, but now there remains only one lane open to traffic. The authorities didn't see fit to turn that lane (temporarily) into a one-way street, diverting traffic away to other streets. Songtaews (what Gaybutton calls baht buses) crawl their way through this bottleneck, adding a further 20 minutes to what should normally be a 20 minute ride. I found it frustrating.

Yes! You reminded me! It was not the ambience I wanted, and to think they even made me pay for it. They should have been paying me.

You're not wrong. It was closed permanently. Then a Japanese buyer came along. I hope that poor sod is not a total fool, has deep pockets, has a proper business plan, and has the energy and willpower to make the plan happen. As someone who has an interest in business behaviour, I think it will make an interesting case study one way or another in the months/years to come.

Typo. 40-50 % female...

Physique-wise, you should be able to get someone like that from BoyzBoyzBoyz. However, nearly everyone has huge tattoos, so you need to adjust your criteria. BoyzBoyzBoyz audience is now maybe 40-50 female, so it can be hard to get a boy's attention. Alternatively, similar boys *may* be found at A-bomb on the Soi next to Boyztown. But fewer boys available there. As for massage, Paradise (same Soi as A-bomb, I think) may be your best bet but I didn't look closely, so not too sure. There's also Scandic massage in the Boyztown Soi, but the few times I have tried years ago, the service was hopeless and a waste of money. For your preferences, forget Jomtien. Stay in/ near Boyztown. Forget Sunnee. It's on life support. Even then, barely.

Once again, I find myself in admiration of the way Numazu expresses his thoughts, when he wrote in his 12 July 2022 post (in page 1 of thread: Bangkok Trip Report 2022: The wait is over. What was I waiting for?): He gave me an idea then, but it's taken me a while to get it done. In addition to creating a new map of the area showing gogo bars and massage parlours that are open post-Covid, I have also retrieved some old posts that illustrate what Numazu was saying about the contrast between what there is in Patpong 2 and what there was in Soi Twilight. As with most of the my reports, I record the prices too, and some might find it interesting to see what prices were 13 or 14 years ago when Soi Twilight was in its heyday. www.shamelessmacktwo.travel.blog The specific post with the new map: https://shamelessmacktwo.travel.blog/2022/08/01/memory-lane-and-a-new-silom-surawong-map-july-2022/

I have put up a new map at https://shamelessmacktwo.travel.blog/2022/08/01/memory-lane-and-a-new-silom-surawong-map-july-2022/ You will need to scroll down to the bottom of the post to see it. Hope it's useful to you.

Thanks @fedssocr Haha, I had tried searching for various word combinations except "Man".

@jason1975 I can't seem to find a Facebook page for New Twilight. Do you have the link?

My first thought in response to the opening post was this: To fly halfway around the globe, enduring an 18 - 20 hour flight and a 12-hour time zone difference, for only one week's vacation does not sound like a good cost-benefit equation. I don't know about you, but I have friends who need 3 - 4 days to adjust to the time zone change. Effectively, you're going to be 2 - 4 days short on account of flight time and sleep adjustment time. And then to fly all the way back.... If you can stretch your available time window, it can make a big difference. Other thoughts: 1. I agree with others that (for now) Bangkok is a good introduction to East Asia. In normal (non-Covid) times, I might have suggested Hong Kong or Taipei or even Shanghai, and certainly Bali would be on my shortlist too, but these are not normal times. 2. Culture there certainly is, and there will be customs that, closer to the time, you need to ask about on this forum e.g. long trousers, slip-on shoes, touching, etc. 3. Bangkok is a huge sprawling city with an estimated 10 - 11 million people. Traffic can be bad. Its metro system ('subway" to Americans) is not well developed and some destinations require a long walk (say, 1.5 km in heat) from the nearest station. 4. Because it is a huge sprawling city, you will need to select your hotel location with care. I recommend that you stay in the Silom-Surawong area, where the gay nightlife is. This avoid having to travel a long distance back to your hotel late at night. 5. But there are next to no "traditional" cultural sites in the Silom-Surawong area, so daytime travelling to the main sites cannot be avoided. 6. Forget about nature. Bangkok is one of the most built-up cities. I read somewhere that it has among the lowest ratio of green spaces to paved spaces. If, however, you have an interest in sewer rats, then Bangkok is the place for you. 7. Assuming you do not speak any Asian language, Bangkok will also be an easy introduction to Asia. There are cities that speak more English (e.g. Singapore where English is almost universal) but in the touristy areas, you can get by without having to learn even one word of Thai. 8. Part of culture is the food. You need to know what your tolerance for spiciness is, so that you don't make a huge mistake in ordering. Perhaps you can visit some Thai, Korean or Chinese Sichuan restaurants in your home city and figure out how much you can take. Allow of course, for the fact that in the US these ethnic cuisines would often have adjusted their levels of spiciness to Americans' palate. So what counts as "very spicy" in the US is "medium-low spicy" in Thailand. 9. For me, one of the problematic unknowns when visiting a place I have never been to before is to know the tipping culture (if any). It's quite amusing to me but I have met Americans who are shocked to learn that there are countries where tipping is almost unknown. (Not in the least suggesting that you're one of them, in fact, being on this board, you're probably better travelled than your average compatriot.) But my point is, no two countries have the same tipping culture, and if you wish, a discussion on this board about Thai expectations before you leave home may be useful.

Classic selection bias. Members tend to post when they've had an encounter ( I won't say it's bragging, because quite often the post is about a dud). Nothing to write about if there wasn't an encounter.

I agree with fedssocr - 7 weeks is a long time. Even when I travel for non-sex reasons, I find myself getting bored by the time I hit the 5th week. One temple or cathedral blends into another; one "fabulous" scenic spot starts to look just like the other "fabulous" scenic spot. Instead of town squares looking interesting, new and exciting, I start to notice dirt, squalor, beggars and scammers. With Thailand, since I have been here so many times, I know I will start getting bored by the 3rd week. I won't even last to the 4th or 5th week. So I keep my Thai trips to no more than 2 or 3 weeks. Our bodies are all different, even in younger years. Once out of my teens, I have not been interested in 3 times a day. Nowadays, despite all the attractions of Thai venues, I keep to a certain discipline to avoid burn-out. Every third or fourth day is sex-free. The body needs to recharge. I second gaybutton's advice: Try a legitimate Thai massage. Try a genuine foot massage. Go sightseeing. Go shopping. Try an out of the way, unfamiliar restaurant. I will add one more: Every third or fourth day, get a good night's sleep.

https://www.bangkokpost.com/thailand/general/2353912/capital-on-alert-for-monkeypox However, the Phuket Express reports that the patient was not a recent tourist but had been in Thailand since last year and overstayed his visa. https://thephuketexpress.com/2022/07/22/update-nigerian-man-confirmed-as-thailands-first-case-of-monkey-pox-being-traced-by-police-after-vanishing-act-was-on-overstay/#l61p26bpz01idete6ec

I am having a blast in Thailand, and if you've read others' reports, I think you will see that everyone who has made his way here in the last few months had a blast. I think your concerns about insufficient attractions in August can be put aside going by the experiences of those of us who have visited. I find myself faced with more places to visit and revisit than I have energy or time. Or libido either! There are some members here who can do 3 tricks a day. This is beyond me. But the message to take home is that there are enough options here for those voracious enough to do three tricks a day. Haha. Much depends on how much weight you give to the weather situation. Yes, there will be a difference, but unless a key objective is to get a tan ( e.g beach time in Pattaya), then I really don't think weather is any real impediment. I note you didn't mention Pattaya in your post, so maybe beach time is not in your plan anyway. I also understand the complications of arranging travel around available leave periods. I have a similar-ish problem. And my instinct is to grab whatever time I have within my work schedule and not wait in the hope of another slot months later. Slots and opportunities can vanish unexpectedly. By the way, what's a PTO employee? You asked what is our confidence level regarding Screw Boys reopening. It's really hard to say, but with each passing week, it gets more and more unlikely. Reopening can be a costly exercise. Many interiors have fallen into ruin in the last 2 years, and I noticed that several bars have had a complete refit recently. So, it doesn't come cheap for the owners. And if they did their market research, they might conclude that traffic to other bars remain poor and probably unprofitable. Good for us as consumers (more choice) but not so good for those having to put money in.

On second thoughts, this is not a good example of a tip either. It is kinda mandatory, after all, so it's more of a fee for time spent. A better example might be the 100 baht we give to a selected mamasan after he/ she gave us a good recommendation or extra information about a desired boy or helped translate...

Just in case my comments above are misinterpreted, when I say an extra 200-300 baht would be appropriate as the discretionary tip component for really good service, that is exactly what I mean. This tip component is not normalized. That is to say, in more than 50% of engagements, I do not add this tip. They get exactly what was agreed or what is the going rate. Only about one in three boys/masseurs get extra. That way the extra really represents an above average performance. Boys, in my experience, have been happy with my compensation either way. When they get extra, they show their delight.

I found Numazu’s analysis of Tawan’s branding most insightful. Indeed, there is a certain “time stood still” quality to our experiences at Tawan. The bar’s format has hardly changed. Even the newer premises are just as basic as the previous place. As Numazu put it, “Going to it nowadays is like getting into a time machine, harkening back to a Bangkok that was grittier, dirtier, and maybe more fun…” Numazu's analysis can be found at thread title “Bangkok Trip Report 2022: The wait is over. What was I waiting for?”, 24 July 2022, 9:59am. I had a similar thought when I walked in last week. I liked the familiarity of it, even though I am no muscle worshipper. I liked the easy-going character of the place where the guys just come up to you and say a few words without a mamasan swooping in to throw the “buy him a drink?” spanner at me. That said, Tawan does make a few concessions to modernity. The front-of-shop lighting is now more “dynamic”. There were about 15 guys in briefs except two in jockstraps. Most of the guys were in great form. It looked as if there was a competition they were preparing for, but the papasan said there wasn’t. When off the stage they might put a T-shirt on, but most of them stayed shirtless all the time. There weren’t many customers in the bar at about 10pm when I entered - perhaps ten (all Asian) – but because the bar is so small, barely 3 metres wide, it still looked active. At any given time, there were about 3 or 4 muscle guys on stage, which was no bigger than two dining tables placed end to end. The guys mostly just stood there and did nothing in particular. This was the part I thought the management should give more thought to. It’s not interesting enough for customers. But it’s always been like that, so I guess one could say why fix what is not broken? I was not bored, though. The papasan sat with me and we had a good conversation about the long shutdown brought on by Covid-19 and how everyone had to find other ways to survive. He shared a story about a Japanese customer (who had visited only the night before) who was stuck in Tokyo while his business in Thailand floundered. Discretion prevents me from repeating the details, but there must have been many small-time foreign investors in the same predicament. It made me think: As much as we might complain about being unable to visit our favourite destination(s) for two years, others with deeper financial stakes must have been tearing their hair out. On a different note, the papasan volunteered information about why they moved to the new shop, which is just across the street from the old one. Apparently, the landlord (of both the old Tawan bar and Sun Massage which were adjacent to each other) did not want to renew the lease for any of his tenants. The whole row, he said, now stood empty. Perhaps somebody is sniffing redevelopment potential, but frankly, with so much overbuilding in Bangkok, the property market already looks like a glut. At 10:30pm the show began. Once again, it was a throwback to the past. The first three items had cross-dressers doing lip sync numbers. Each was solo; there were no backing dancers because there simply wasn’t enough space on the stage. Then 3 guys came up to demonstrate some flexing. Two had outlines of hard-ons beneath their briefs. The third guy expertly positioned his dick to leave little to the imagination, with the glans peeping out over the waistband. There might have been one more act, but at this point, I wasn’t paying much attention to the show. I was more interested in making eye contact with one guy sitting quietly two metres from me. He seemed lost in his thoughts, and it proved unusually difficult to get his attention. I could have asked a papasan to tap him on his shoulder, but right when you needed one, no papasan could be found. Where were they? Through the corner of my eye, I noticed that the next act was the big cock show. About 6 or 7 guys came onto the stage briefly and then circulated among the audience offering a grope for tips. The trouble was that as soon as I tipped one (after a careful assay of his member with my hands), all the rest came to me like vultures to a carcass. I felt attacked. The fourth guy had my last 100-baht bill and I had to plainly tell the rest that there was no more money. Which was a good thing, because I had to get them away from me as soon as possible before the quiet guy left his seat. They were obstructing my line of sight with the object of my lust. I knew neither his name nor number, so it would not have been easy to tell a papasan who to summon for me should he disappear somewhere into the back of the shop. But he was still there after I shooed away the vultures, and finally, he noticed me beckoning him. “You not do show?” was how I opened my conversation with him. “Last time I do the jack-off show,” he replied. “But now, I don’t want to do anymore. I shy.” This is intriguing. I can understand the progression from shy to not-shy, but in the other direction? This is going to require a more extensive interview, and we made a pact to do it in my room. Drink (for customer or for boy): 400 baht. Off fee: 500 baht. Music volume: comfortable. The papasan also informed me that they had two short-time rooms upstairs. I forgot to ask about the charges but in any case, looking at how basic the bar is furnished, I’d have only the lowest of expectations for the rooms. In the daytime (not sure which hour to which hour) Tawan uses the rooms for massage services. “Some boys”, said the papasan, would be here to provide massages, but not all. He pointed to a guy near where I was seated as one of the usual masseurs. Bad move. That was the one guy who probably used the gym least. All of the sudden, I lost all interest in coming back tomorrow for a massage. That said, there might be others who would also be present in the day for massage, and who might be true hunks, but the papasan didn’t point them out to me.

While they like to call it a "tip", functionally, it is not. If the bar or massage parlour paid the boys a meaningful salary or at least a biggish commission*, then any additional amount we give to the host, gogoboy or masseur would, functionally, be a tip in that it would be a token of appreciation. In that form, it would be a smaller and more discretionary amount, e.g. the 100 baht we give to a boy who sat with us for 15 - 20 minutes in a gogobar without an off. (*I am fully aware that if the bars and massage parlours were to pay a meaningful salary, they might have to jack up their list prices... or they might have to stop paying the cops.) However, in the context of a gogoboy or masseur providing sexual services which the bar or massage parlour (officially) denies responsibility for, then it becomes a fee, not a tip. Fees are either negotiated, or, in the absence of a negotiation, based on some sort of going rate. My personal opinion is that TotallyOz's scale of remuneration (to be precise, he said "acceptable price") is on the high side. In his post 9:38am of 24 July, he said Bangkok Short time - 3,000 baht Pattaya Short time - 2,000 baht plus taxi While he is free to apply his own (generous) rates, as anyone is. I think the going rates are roughly 60 - 75% of those figures. We hear the mamasans in gogo bars say 2,000 baht would be expected for short-time. I think in Pattaya a mamasan would say 1,500? (not too sure here, perhaps others can share their experience). In the Bangkok massage places, my recent experience is that the managers are suggesting 1,000 to 1,200 baht, on average, for playtime at the end of a one-hour massage. Nine Massage actually says 1,000 on its website. And I also agree with you that performance must play a (big) part in what we finally fork out. So, the way I see it. there is a "fee" component and a "tip" component. Say, we take a gogoboy out from a Bangkok bar. Nowadays, it seems the expected fee is 2,000 baht. But if the guy gave us a great time, we may add 200 or 300 baht on top. That would be the tip component. Ditto n a massage parlour. The expected rate may be 1,000 to 1,200, but if we're on Cloud Nine after the session, we naturally feel an extra 200 - 300 baht is well-deserved.

Thanks for the intel, @garylim88. This explains the impossibly large number of boys pictured in the Line advertising of some shops.

For the last few days, I have been trying to search on this site for a post that had a video about the evolving business model for girlie bars in Pattaya, to no success. I am now begining to wonder if I saw the post on another forum altogether. But then, I don't visit any other forum much. It must have been about 2 or 3 months ago, and the attached video was perhaps 15 minutes long. It was made by a resident expat who clearly was in the know. The video spoke about salaries and commissions for the girls and how bar owners were discouraging offs. My main handicap has been that while I can roughly recall what was said in the video, I can't remember anything that was said in the introductory post, without which i can't think of any unique keywords to search with. If anyone can help find that link, it would be much appreciated.

Just as I was about to reach the slab block that housed Sabaidee Massage in its carpark floor, I noticed to my right a number of fire-damaged houses. It had been reported by @reader in https: // www.gayguides.com/forums/topic/37924-many-houses-destroyed-in-bangkok-blaze/#comment-335550, and there's even a photo of the blaze there from the Bangkok Post. I had read about it then, but didn't realise how close it was to Sabaidee's block. At its closest point, it would have been merely 4 or 5 metres from its back door. It's been a month since the fire and the houses have not been demolished. In my picture, the peachy orange wall on the left would be the boundary wall of the slab block. I tried to engage the Sabaidee manager on the disruption (if any) the business suffered as a result, but all he kept saying was "no problem, no problem." Perhaps he didn't realise I was asking about the past, and thought he needed to assure me that business is back to normal. He had sent me a ton of pictures via Line, but the photos of his masseurs had neither name nor number, and I didn't know how to specify which ones I was interested in should I wish to message back. So, without any prior booking, I showed up. He explained that I should have Lined back the pics of my shortlist and he would then tell me more about them. I hadn't thought of that, but surely, it can't be much more work to attach a name or number to each picture in the first place. It would have saved me (and probably other customers) a lot of puzzlement. Anyway, he then showed me five guys on his tablet which he said were "available". Four clearly worked out in gyms, one of whom was a definite W4M. Not quite competition standard but close. The fifth was an S3R- not much muscle - but he had the sweetest face. I told the manager W4M was my first choice and S3R was my second. He got onto the phone and managed to reach W4M immediately, only to be told that W4M was on his way to another appointment - one which the Sabaidee manager didn't know of. This suggests a considerable degree of fluidity in staff management. The boys are in fact freelancers who may work for other massage shops or have their own advertising. So S3R it would be. He was in the back of the shop and appeared within seconds. Let's call him Sucho. He led me up one floor to the next level which had about 8 or 9 massage rooms. I don't know about the other rooms, but the one assigned to me had an ensuite shower. It wasn't a fancy room, but not cramped either. There was enough space to move around the massage table. Sucho showered with me right at the start - that made a good impression already. His massage technique was average. There was a good deal of vigourous rubbing. Although he clearly knew several other strokes, he wasn't putting them to good use, or at the right spots. The exerted pressure was good and strong. As for coverage, it was originally not extensive enough, focussing mainly on the back of legs, back and shoulders. When I asked him to not forget the chest, arms and front of legs, he happily obliged. He knew what to do, but I guess bad habits of omission in a gay-sex kind of place quickly degrades a boy's standard programme. Although he was nude from the beginning, what was noticeable was that for a gay-sex kind of place, there was virtually no brushing during the massage. He wasn't skilled at the arts of seduction in that regard. That didn't deter me and we soon proceeded to Part 2. Nothing much to write home about but I left satisfied. He showered with me in closing. For a 90-miniute oil massage, the manager had earlier indicated a tip of 1,500 as expected. The house itself asked for 1,000 baht for "the room". Looking at the clock on my phone, I noticed that I had spent about 1 hour 35 minutes inside. One last point. When I asked Sucho which day of the week was his day off, he replied that he only worked at Sabaidee Spa 3 days a week. Apparently, the place has a kind of roster. I tried to ask Sucho where else he worked, but I couldn't quite understand the reply. He did volunteer that even on those days where he was "with" Sabaidee, he only got on average one customer a day. If this is the business model, I wondered if that meant that most of the numerous photos that Sabadiee Spa sent out might not represent actual availability on any particular day.