macaroni21

Yes but MSense's 3050 (which includes 200 baht tip) won't buy you the stamp collection that Senso's 2990 buys you.

Yes, I am a city boy too. I have had a similar experience when in some kind of rustic resort. The night was too dark and the surroundings too quiet. It took me a long time to fall asleep.

I haven't been back to Manila in years, and I don't have first-hand information to answer your question, but Club Bath has a website (https://www.clubbath.com.ph/) and if you go to their FAQ page, it's very prominently stated their requirement for a vaccination certificate. It could be out of date (website not updated) but there's no knowing that unless someone has personally visited. That said, I have never held high opinions of Filipino facilities (main reason why I haven't been back recently). Perhaps I have been spoilt by what's available in Thailand, but the FIlipino places are usually basic and in need of upkeep. Club Bath, for example, does not even have a bath - neither pool nor jacuzzi.

Phew! Senso is more like it. When @bkkmfj2648 said @vinapu went to Msense, I thought somebody must have won the lottery. Have you seen the prices at Msense? Take a look: https://www.gowabi.com/en/provider/msense-spa-thailand#services

Exactly. That's why we need to make repeat visits to these places. But as always: so many places, so little time (or cash)! Ganymede Spa?

From the excerpts posted by @TotallyOz, a good number of twitter posts promote TCS Spa (for which I have a recent visit report at https://shamelessmacktwo.travel.blog/2024/06/15/in-faraway-bang-kho-laem/) What I find curious is that the posts in Massage Insider seem to show the TCS boys lifting their shirts or shirtless, as if indicating that bodies are available for exploration and erotic endings are on offer. However, my visit had the guy observing the strictest and most formal of protocols. He remained fully clothed, complete with long pants, throughout. I didn't make any move, nor did he. In such situations where the guy is so fully dressed, I find it awkward to make the transition to playtime. So my question to @bkkmfj2648 and others subscribing to Massage Insider is this: From those reports about TCS Spa, would "more than massage" be available? What about other places that Massage Insider has posts on, and also look high end, such as WabiSabi, MGallery, MSense Therapist, The Posh Massage, Mandel Spa, MenSpa X?

Banned by @reader on account of political incorrectness? -- I have personally used three terms when I speak or write. Interestingly, these three have different connotations of age and personality. Going from younger to older: A giggle of girls A bevy of girls/ladies A committee of girls/women... also connotes a certain stentoriousness (oops, reader comes to mind again 🤪)

I think Raya Hotel is not affected by any work (other than construction noise) because the unit that says "Space for rent" was not part of the hotel. That shop has been empty for a long time, since before Covid, I think. It may now have a new tenant. Dare we hope for a new gogo bar (with boys, not girls!) ?

Thank you. But let me overstay my welcome 🤪 and bore you with a bit more. All conventions evolve; but not only do they evolve inconsistently, they also vary by regional usage. The US states of Missouri and Mississippi are also named after major rivers, but to the best of my knowledge, they have never had "The" before their names. That's American usage. And mostly because of American reporting, it's getting rare to see reference to The Sudan. American news media generally refer to the country as Sudan. (But the Americans refer to The Philippines - so the yanks are not consistent either). This evolution is sped along because we have so little use for the historical term The Sudan referring to the vast trading hinterland of the Arab and North African world, such that most have forgotten about it. On the other hand, old usage can be very sticky. We still say The Netherlands, even if people today would be hardpressed to explain what the preceding geographical feature after which the country was named was (hint: "nether/nieder"). And one more thing about whether political entities saw themselves as territory or people, pre-feudal Europe also tended to see them as collections of people. Thus we speak of the King of the Franks, the Visigoths, the Huns, and maybe King of the Allemand (was there ever one?).

@pylonguy71 Any chance of some feedback how it went with your 16-hour stopover on June 5?

Here goes: When we see the word "The" before what looks like a country name, it is generally because the word had been used to refer to a geographical feature well before the country even came about. In English, geographical features are typically indicated with the definite article "the". Thus, we speak of "the Alps", "the prairie", "the Danube", "the Arctic". I believe @Londoner is right in that the present state of which the city of Banjul is the capital takes its name from the river, known as The Gambia. The river was The Gambia, the same way we speak of The Volga, The Danube, The Ganges, The Mississippi, The Yangzi, The Chao Phraya. When is country is formed and takes its name from that geographical feature, English tends to be conservative and keeps the word "The" with it. If tomorrow, there is a realignment of borders and a new state is formed in the Danube basin, and the new state wishes to call itself after the river, we would refer to it as The Republic of The Danube. (not Republic of Danube). The pre-existing geographical feature does not need to be a river. "The Sudan" was for centuries the term used to refer to a vast, topographically flat (relatively speaking) area stretching from the Atlantic Ocean to the Red Sea, between the Sahara and the Bight (Gulf) of Benin inhabited by black-skinned people. It's an Arabic term, useful to the Arabs and North Africans to refer to the vast area to the south with whom they traded extensively. The modern state with the same name is a fraction of the size of the historical Sudan. But in the same conservative fashion, the English language would refer to the state as the Republic of The Sudan. In Southeast Asia, there is The Republic of The Philippines, for similar reasons. For hundreds of years those islands had been referred to by their Spanish name, "Las Islas Filipinas", named after King Philip II of Spain. It's similar to they way we refer to The East Indies or The West Indies or The Canary Islands. So when the Filipino republic was formed and it chose to take the name of the geographical feature, it kept the word "The" in its name, this being the English convention. In Southeast Asia too, there is a truly odd one which few people realise is odd. When Europeans (particularly the French) first met the top dog in region to the West of Vietnam and Northeast of the Kingdom of Siam, that big guy introduced himself as the king of all the Lao tribes. He said something to the effect that "I am the King of the Lao people, or King of the Laos." It was an interesting moment of culture clash. Europeans conceived of statehood as a political power controlling territory (due to their history of feudalism). The people were secondary. If they lived in the territory, OK, the humans would, as a consequence, come under the rule of the power. Elsewhere in the world, particularly Asia, rulers saw themselves as ruling over people. If the people lived in a territory, then indirectly the land would be brought under the king's power. And if the people moved around, the king still expected that the people remained his subjects wherever they went off to. Thus the big guy in Luang Prabang saw himself as ruler of the Lao tribes, just as the guy in Phnom Penh saw himself as ruler of the Khmer people. Today we seldom realise that the word "Laos" got corrupted along the way. Where it used to refer (in plural) to a collection of tribes and peoples, we now use it to refer to a defined territory - but only in English. The official name of the country is not Laos, it is The Lao People's Democratic Republic. They are still using the word "Lao" to refer to the people, not the land.

I think we have similar priorities. Location is key. Room size isn't all that important so long as it isn't cramped. (Quarter Hotel's standard rooms are cramped). Fancy amenities feel wasteful to me. Functionality is important too. I was once given an upgrade at Le Siam. When I got to the room, I saw that it had a bathtub. I dislike bathtubs and plastic curtains and more so if I am planning to host a boy and shower together. So I went downstairs again and asked the reception to reverse the upgrade. Give me back a normal or ordinary room (that's what they called it). These have shower stalls big enough for two. It took a while for them to understand my request.

Croom. I'm not 100% sure but its lights were on and it looked open the week that we were in Bangkok last month.

No, I don't. I have a serious problem with political correctness. In my circle of homo homies, we think life and language would be colorless and humourless if we didn't have hags, yobs, paddies, blackfellas, trannies, geezers, dumbblonds, gerontophiles and fatsos among us. Nor do we need to look far to see rice queens, potato queens, curry queens... And don't forget muscle marys.

The "system" in Japanese massage businesses is not always consistent. They vary from one shop to another. I don't know what your experiences have been, so it's not easy for me to explain how different Thailand is compared to your Japanese experiences - in other words, what's your baseline to which one should compare? Washing the client is indeed common in Japan - but that is really a manifestation of the Japanese concern about cleanliness; it is rarely done erotically. My experience in Japan is that some places have boys who can actually do a massage. Others use the term "massage" to mean something else. And some shops offer a service that is sort of in-between. Therefore I am not sure what you have in your mind as the Japanese style of services. However, your mention of body to body perhaps indicates the latter. Ditto, in Bangkok there is thai massage, there is oil massage, there is sort-of-massage, there is "massage", "four hands massage" and there is "Oh my God, massage!" The service style varies hugely from one shop to another. The quality of facilities also vary hugely, and in fact, most Thai facilities (and Vietnamese) are better than Japanese, though the Japanese facilities are still a thousand times better than what one finds in ("shouldn't this have been condemned by the Fire Department?") Kuala Lumpur or Manila. My blog has numerous posts describing many of these places and the "system" that comes with them. Some do not end in sexual activity. Regular visitors seldom realise how complicated the Bangkok scene may took to new visitors. So, let's get you better advice. But to begin, pick a category that most interests you and then the regulars on this board will guide you where to go. 1. Professional quality massage by trained and certified therapists. They remain in their clothes throughout the session. They ensure that your private parts are always covered and there is no touching. 2. Near-professional quality massage by trained therapists. They remain in their clothes, but may be prepared to give clients a handjob, after negotiating the rate (done in whispers) inside the room. 3. Near-professional quality massage by trained therapists. They remain in their clothes, but may be prepared to take them off and do considerably more, after negotiating the rate inside the room. 4. Hand movements that look a bit like massage, but are often directed at the nether regions in order to elicit arousal. The boy (I don't call them 'therapists' from this point on) is dressed or semi-dressed and may negotiate the rate inside the room if the shop's minimum tip rate is set too low. Once an agreeable rate is mutually accepted, the clothing tends to be flung off and he would likely climb onto the massage table (or floor mattress, if it's a low-budget kind of place) 5. Shops that make a clear a minimum tip that is higher than the "course" fee or room fee. The boy moves his hands to mimic a bit of massage (some boys don't even bother with this much pretence of a massage), but are often directed at the nether regions in order to elicit arousal. The room is likely to have a bed instead of a massage table. The boy begins the session either minimally dressed or totally nude. There is no in-room negotiation unless the client asks for something unusual - though more likely the boy simply says "cannot" to unusual requests, rather than negotiate. Body-to-body is not as common in Thailand as in Japan, Vietnam, Kuala Lumpur or Manila (where it is called "Nuru massage"). In Bangkok, you may get it in category 5 places. Another thing about Thailand is that categories 4 and 5 have wide pricing differentials, even if two shops offer similar services. The pricing differential is traceable to the several factors including (a) standard of facilities, (b) boys' physiques, (c) whether in tourist areas (thus aimed at tourists) or in more local parts of the city.

Eh? A few months ago, I walked past. It had two hags on duty, one of whom was manicuring herself (i.e. sharpening her claws). Not one boy in sight.

I am assuming you mean the bars and massage places on the Silom Surawong area, and not the massage parlours further out, e.g. in Saphan Khwai or Onnut. If I were in your shoes, I would definitely move to a hotel in the same area, for one big reason: it's so much easier to pop back to the hotel room to wash up or pick up more cash before hitting another place, whereas depending on taxis or rides will put you at the mercy of Bangkok's notorious traffic. Even if you learn to use the light rail system, this system stops slightly before midnight. This map shows several hotels in the area : https://shamelessmacktwo.travel.blog/2023/12/07/map-of-silom-surawong-area-december-2023/

Thanks for saying the obvious. If one is running a business, one should be constantly trawling social media and elsewhere (plus getting feedback from customers) for ideas. One should also be looking not just at what other bars locally are doing but what bars in other countries are doing. I did give unsolicited advice to Paul when he was running the now-defunct New Twilight. Told him he should get his basics right: Aircon too cold. Music too loud. LCD screen too bright rendering his gogo boys into silhouette rather than showcasing the boys. Send his doorman further out to give out leaflets, and not just hope to pull in passersby (there were none to pull in, since they were located offside), etc etc. Needless to say, suggestions were not welcome.

@Olddaddy Be creative. You don't need a liquor licence to succeed. Have a special on the menu that offers tea. Customers are invited to a closet space behind the bar where their cuppa will be made specially for them. Boys tie the string of a teabag to their *ahem* little brother and jiggle the teabag in hot water by gyrating their hips. All your customers will become teetotallers in no time.

The thing about automation is that while it is possible (but not cheap) to buy/install it, the hard part is having the skills to maintain the hardware and software. That's the invisible difference between the West, China , Japan, Korea on one side and places like Thailand or Malaysia on the other side.

Most of us knew Sol Club wasn't going to survive. It had no imagination. Also, in its brief existence, did it even invest one baht in advertising and marketing? Even that huge column could have been turned into an asset if they knew how. I described a different floorplan and business model last November. https://shamelessmacktwo.travel.blog/2023/12/13/how-to-take-in-that-massive-thing/

Not sure I understand what you mean by "2 to 6+". Could you speak in terms of %, like what % of Chinese or Chinese-looking customers who walk through the door decide to turn around and leave? And are these more male or female?

Are you forgetting India and Kazakhstan? And if latest reports about bars being full of Chinese tourists are any indication, China too.

You could be on to something - Thai ways can be a total mystery to us outsiders. That said, to a western mind that relies on this strange thing called logic, I can't imagine what boundaries are left to be imposed by the cops. After all, the gogo bars already have full on f**king acts on stage, plus the conjoined couple then circulate among the audience, often with one partner on a customer's lap while the other partner pounds away. As @bkkmfj2648 mentioned a few days ago in this same thread, a good bar "creates customer participation in the bar and can allow for you to get up close and personal with the bar staff". I have long spoken about the need for smaller, more intimate environments, options for lap dancing in private booths (or at least curtained-off corners) and more joke-y performances that either pull members of the audience onto the stage or the performer(s) go down to a lucky customer. I have also spoken about the need for more exclusive male environments (as opposed to one with screaming girls in the audience) though such a suggestion makes @reader go apoplectic about discrimination. Instead, these bars think they ought to copy the success of Tiffany or Alcazar (and badly) or Fake Club. They don't for a moment realise that their could-be-loyal audience is completely different. Then when customer numbers fall, they raise their prices to make up. And wonder why customer numbers fall further. OK, the last bit about prices can be traced to the need for the police superintendent's wife to acquire jewellery.

I assume @sydneyboy1 was referring mostly to gogo bars when he wrote "bar crawl of all the usual haunts" and finding them "very quiet and dispiriting". When I triangulate his report with those of others - more positive sounding - the picture I get is that the gogo bars are their own worst enemies unable to attract customers despite increased foreigner traffic into the country. Now, why am I not surprised?