macaroni21

The reality is often more complicated or ambiguous than you make it sound. "Would rather" and "would rather not" are not always binary choices. Looks aren't everything. In a recent post -- sorry, I can't remember which one or by whom -- it was reported that a shop manager once said the good looking boys are the lazy ones. Not always true, I'm sure, but anyway we all have different ideas of what "good looking" means. I think many of us would have an experience of just going with the flow with whichever boy we get, not wanting to appear rude and hoping for the best. Politeness and giving face are virtues in themselves... though, yes, it can also be exploited by others trying to impose upon you. Many here would also have an experience in which, as the session progressed, it got better and better than we initially expected based on first impressions of the boy's appearance. These would be the times when, as the situation unfolded, one changed one's mind from would rather not to would rather. I wrote about one instance (https://shamelessmacktwo.travel.blog/2023/04/28/assigned-a-belly/) when the massage boy assigned to me had a body type that I would almost never choose but I went along with the decision ( based on the shop's roster). It turned out to be a wonderful session. I was glad I kept my initial thoughts/feelings in check

I have the same concern about confusion among the denominations in dark places, but my solution is slightly different. I fold notes that start with "5" into halves. So if a note is folded, it means it's either 50 baht or 500 baht. I would do the same with a 5.000-baht note, but I have never seen one. Does it exist? (it would be terrible nuisance to break, though).

Earlier, I wanted to post a link to a gay-for-pay murder but I just couldn't think of the right keywords to find the Youtube video I had watched a while back. I've now found it:

Between the sheer volume of female customers and the number of drinks they buy (Including boy drinks), there is enough revenue for the bar to be minting money. The bar does not have to rely on off fees. So even if offing hardly occurs, it's irrelevant. As for the boys, once again, the girls tip -- though reports are mixed as to how well or poorly they tip -- but perhaps through sheer volume of customers alone, the boys make enough. They don't need to be off'd, unless it's for the pleasure of cunt. There are successful "Magic Mike" type establishments around the world. They make money without "going all the way". One thing we must never do is to assume that women behave like men. They do not. In this area of sex, straight men and gay men are far more alike, and worlds apart from women (gay or straight). Women like the flirt; the fantasy of a minute's romance. If the boys deliver that (not sure these boys do, though), females will tip thousands of baht. Men think that flirting is a waste of time and money. If the cock is not satisfied, nothing else substitutes. Another observation worth making: females go to these bars in social groups; they rarely go alone (except Japan, but there's another dynamic there, something to do with absent husbands). For them, the entertainment's chief value is to cement the social bond between hens. Vocalisation (screaming) and getting drunk together is part of the social bonding. Men more often go singly than in groups. The value is in the hunt. Silence and stealth are part of the game. -- Re Japan, see https://shamelessmacktwo.travel.blog/2024/04/18/host-bars-that-arent-for-us/

Agree about the wisdom of separating the 2 priorities, though Jey Spa is not the place for any kind of good massage, so that leaves just the other objective.

Amazing... been quite regularly visiting Thailand for decades and didn't know this niche existed until now. Have never even heard of Banana State Fashion hotel. Thanks for the education!

Either BotTom or Bitchy Twink 🤪

This seems to be quite common among straight guys doing gay-for-pay work, and not just in Thailand. I think it's the same the world over. The wife is far more insecure about the possibility of an emotional relationship developing between a female customer and her husband than a male customer. Many years ago, I came across a story about a gay-for-pay guy eventually going into a relationship (and apparently a deeply emotional one) with a male customer and it took a long time before the wife figured out. Apparently, she just didn't understand the concept of bisexuality (he was); there was perahps also denial. She plotted murder when it finally dawned on her what happened. Alas, I can't remember whether she succeeded in her plans or not! As @vinapu has said many times, it's hard to imagine any gay-for-pay guy not being at least somewhat bisexual.....

Good luck, guys. It's going to be a challenge keeping up to date with Jomtien Complex - the businesses change so quickly.

Indeed, to those of us familiar with the sois of Bangkok and Pattaya, there is something so "off" about this write-up, the only plausible explanation is that it was an AI response to a query... and a salutary lesson not to be so trustful of AI.

@jimmie50 @zoomomancs you're assuming that Big Boy bar is there to be found. Maybe the simplest reason why @floridarob couldn't find it is because it's no longer there. 🤔

But they are, visibly more so than most other countries. They are efficient and well organised, and things run very well the way they are designed to run within their social and physical contexts, not the way we as outsiders would like them to do things. That is unrealistic.

Haha, at that very moment however, the word that came to mind was "drilling"..,

Mudik and Ramadan aren't festivals. The festival is Eid al Fitri which is at the end of Ramadan. Mudik is the migration of many urban folks back to their hometowns towards the end of Ramadan to celebrate Eid with their families. Naturally, they stay for a few more days, maybe a week, and then the migration goes in reverse back to the cities. This phenomenon is common across many Muslim countries with burgeoning urbanised centres, such as Malaysia and Egypt. It's analogous to the mass migration that takes place in the USA around Thanksgiving and Christmas. And all these migrations are nothing compared to the mass migration in China around the Spring Festival, where you may be literally trampled underfoot (I saw a news report once). Yup, would be useful to be aware of these festivals (in any country) and generally avoid the week before and after them.

Ah, @jimmie50 beat me to it. I was going to say the same thing. I recall a Burmese guy I hired thru Zeus explain to me that he was "legal" insofar as he was doing construction work in my hotel room, since his work permit was as a construction worker. To get such a permit one obviously needs a construction company to sponsor it (for a fee, no doubt). This might work for the Zeus guy since he wasn't tied to any specific location, but such a solution wouldn't work for Soda Massage or other shops in Jomtien Complex, since the boys are tied to a location, sitting in front of a shop all day.

I'm pretty sure it's a mix of 2 things: language proficiency and culture. Teasing no doubt exists in Thai society as in any society. It's deep within homo sapiens behaviour. But culture shapes the circumstances as to when it is appropriate to tease and when it is not. Just as different cultures have different rules as to when/who can use first names (or nicknames) as opposed to more formal names, or when/who may speak first in a social gathering, or eat first in a meal setting, or who one should greet first when entering a room, or even when/who can use "Vous" and "tu", so different societies have different unspoken rules about when/who is appropriate for teasing. Secondly, when someone says something to you in a foreign language which you are not entirely fluent in, even when it possibly sounds like teasing, you can never be quite sure what was intended. Or, it's very easy to misunderstand. So, quite often, one freezes and tries not to react at all. Basically, the safe rule is not to tease unless both parties are using the same language they're fluent in.

Indeed, timing is everything, but everywhere, not just Jakarta. Imagine someone going to Thailand for the first time and arriving smack in the middle of Songkran madness. Or some going to China or Vietnam during the lunar new year and discovering many places closed. At least you were flexible enough to exploit other opportunities. Count your lucky stars you were not like an old friend of mine stuck in Qatar. His "quick holiday from an extended layover" turned into a nightmare after arriving on Feb 26 or 27 (not sure about the date).

@RavenFlock if you're only going to be in Tokyo end April, this is far too early to book. The shops simply don't know who will be working. The boys they advertise mostly have day jobs or school. Japan is not Thailand, where many shops' boys work full-time in the sex trade either exclusively with one shop or with several shops. Rarely so in Japan. You may find managers willing to help you out by contacting a particular boy on your behalf far in advance and making a reservation, but if they do that, they're going out of their way for you, and you should appreciate that. Yet even so, the boy may cancel at the last minute. I have personally experienced it -- more than once, even though I booked only a day or two in advance. On one occasion, it was explained to me that the day job boss wanted him to work overtime. A more recent case had a college student having to stay late for a rescheduled class. Interesting that you mentioned Redline. A boy from that shop arrived half an hour late because he had to feed the rabbits/rats in the university biology department. See it from the boys' perspective: in many cases, their day jobs or school is more important than their night jobs. Japan is a rich country. What they earn from their night job is not as crucial to them as might be the case of a boy in Thailand with no other job. Also, in terms of the pecking order, many shops will see a foreign customer as low priority compared to a local customer, especially one who is regular. You shouldn't be surprised if they refuse to go an extra mile for you. So, moderate your expectations. And, as others have advised, take it easy and adapt to the Japanese way of doing things.

I'm not sure why you're specifically saying "independent providers" but many "prostitution shops" as the Japanese call them, provide outcall services. If it's discretion that's important to you, wouldn't that work just as well? Nor am I sure what you mean by "professional". The outcall guys provided by these shops are "professional" in the sense that they do sex work for a living. Or do you mean something else by that term?

I second @PeterRS's advice: 150 minutes seems too long. We often imagine the kind of person we want when we book, but the person can turn out differently, incompatible with what we're hoping for. 90 minutes should be enough for a first time. If you like that person, you can always book a second appointment.

I must have missed that post. But if it said that Jam specialises in darker complexioned guys, did it occur to you that boys can be made to look darker because of camera settings, studio lighting and editing? 🤪

I've also seen this phenomenon in several cities in China. I remember particularly well a barber shop with a massive basement (spanning the basements of several adjacent shops) which was a complete bathhouse + massage services.

You know you're not likely to get brown skin in Japan, right?

Another business with a physical shop and with your type of boys is Danshi Gakuen (DG), and they have in-house rooms. However, their rooms do not have ensuite bathrooms, and they have a complicated system where the boy has to use the intercom to ask permission from what I call air-traffic control before he walks you down the corridor to the common bathroom. This is to ensure that no customer ever bumps into another customer. For this reason, which I consider an inconvenience, I don't advise DG. Also, DG is a bit further from metro stations (though still walkable) than Tokyo Kids. If I remember correctly, they also advise Shinjuku San-chome station -- the one with more than ten exits.

Oops, I clicked SEND accidentally. As you can see, it can get confusing because they seem to have two Shinjuku shops. I advise the dark blue one, because I have used it before and I know for a fact that they have a physical shop (I attached the pic above). Also, it tells you to get there using Shinjuku Gyoenmae metro station which is a smallish station with only three exits. You won't get too lost. Any of the 3 exits will work for you to get to the shop. Make sure you have data roaming and Google Map on your phone. The shop itself has rooms within, but if they are fully occupied, then you still go to the shop, meet the boy and then the boy will walk you to a hotel room nearby. The Shinjuku ni-chome (2-chome) location of Tokyo Kids -- the black tab -- I have never used before. I don't know if they have a shop, or if they use nearby hotels only. If they don't have a shop, they will tell you to meet them at some street location. As a first timer in Tokyo, there's too much of a risk getting lost within the labyrinth of streets. But it can be done if you get a detailed map from them and you also have a detailed map of the metro stations and their exits. I don't advise it, especially when their nearest metro station is Shinjuku san-chome (3-chome). This is a very cmplicated station with well over ten exits. Anybody trying this station for the first time has a 99% chance of getting lost. There is also Ueno branch on Tokyo Kids (brown tab above). I add this as an option because from Narita Airport, there is an express train to Ueno station (shorter time than the train to Shinjuku Station). However, I have never used the Ueno branch before, and I don't actually know where in Ueno (a large city by itself) it is. If you're at Haneda Airport, then Shinjuku is nearer to you than Ueno. I also mentioned Dojo in my above message but I don't think Dojo has a shop. Instead they will tell you to go to a specific location to meet the boy. As with Tokyo Kids' ni-chome location, there's too much of a risk getting lost within the labyrinth of streets if there is no shop to go to.