hornyfrog

I answered à similar question in the “Over 65” subject thread here. Pix is the Brazilian version of Zelle in the USA. Pix is for quick transfer from Brazilian bank account to Brazilian bank account — but if you do not have an account here and thus no Pix, you can also use a remittance service like Wise or Remitly ot even Western Union to send money into a Brazilian’s account through Pix — for an additional add-on fee. It’ll just take more information from both parties (like name, address, address and number of bank), and it can take up to 24 hours for the money to be transferred and deposited. Most garotos, especially ones you don’t know and thus, they cannot trust you, will NOT be willing to accept being paid hours or a day after the programa is done. Tons of true tales about garotos not trusting gringos who tell them they will pay them or the money is on the way, and then that gringo skips town. So, remittance apps are normally NOT an option for the occasional tourist to pay their providers.

That’s good news. You are truly an outlier. It looks like Banco Rendimento has a Non-Resident Account that requires a CPF and a few other documents to open, but not a residency number like an RG. May I ask exactly you how long have you had this account — like how many years? You say “forever”. I strongly suspect that this is a relatively new development for this bank, like with the advent of digital app-based banking. Brief searching shows that other than Rendimento, only Santander and BTG Pactual are also offering non-resident accounts. NuBank has begun setting up some document waivers for its “high deposit” accounts, so that also might be a place to start if one is willing to start with and maintain what probably adds up to several thousand USD or Euros à month in a digital Brazilian bank account.

This isn’t quite correct. Although you first do need a CPF number to get a Brazilian bank account, you ALSO need a residency number. In other words, non-Brazilian citizens or non-residents can’t open Brazilian bank accounts. As a resident here in Rio, I have heard there might be one or two rare incidents of banks allowing tourists or non-residents to open an account, but I have yet to see that confirmed. These are like urban legends! Also, Pix is for quick transfer from Brazilian bank account to Brazilian bank account — but if you do not have an account here and thus no Pix, you can also use a remittance service like Wise or Remitly ot even Western Union to send money into a Brazilian’s account through Pix. It’ll just take more information from both parties, and it can take up to 24 hours for the money to be transferred and deposited (most garotos, especially ones you don’t know and thus, they cannot trust you) will NOT be willing to accept being paid hours or a day after the programa is done.

I get the idea behind charging the GP a few reais to work at the club. One: they are independent contractors by Brazilian law (although adult sex work is legal here, third-party procuring or pimping is outlawed), and as such, the entrance fee serves to separate the sauna business from the independent worker. Also, with the high risk of having any old ne’er-do-well walking in the club, you do need some kind of barrier to entry. Everyone should have some skin in the game. However, that entry fee for workers should be minimal. These kinds of clubs will fail without new youngbloods — and those kinds of guys in Brazil can’t afford much.

This should’ve read “one price for those with Brazilian IDs and another more expensive one for those without).”

If I were part of the 117 management team (definitely NOT my dream job!), I would: — Make the client entrance fees two-tier (one price for those with Brazilian IDs and another less expensive one for those without). Locals are the regular clients, and the less they have to pay to enter the club, the more they can spend on suites and at the bar. — Drop the garoto entrance fee to something more affordable (that wouldn’t cause the GPs to raise their programa prices on clients to cocer the additional entrance fees). — Offer GPs a work incentive: the top 3 GPs who book clients who spend the most / book the most time in suites will each get their entrance fees comped. This would encourage GPs to get clients to spend more in-house vs. just getting WhatsApp numbers and going offsite. The meat of the sauna’s money comes from clients spending money inside the club (in suites or at the bar) — not from GPs paying an entrance fee.

Just for clarification purposes… Coroa and bear / urso are not the same thing, although they can overlap in some cases. A coroa is a mature older man, regardless of physical appearance or sexual orientation. often admired for his maturity, life experience, financial stability. and/or charisma. and it doesn’t necessarily imply body type or hairiness, or even sexual attractiveness. It’s just a general, harmless, non-sexual descriptor of a mature-looking / -acting older man. Urso is bear in Portuguese. Like in North America, it refers specifically to a gay man who is larger, hairy, and has a rugged or masculine appearance. It’s more about physical traits and being part of that specific urso subculture within the gay community. A man could be both an urso and a coroa if he fits the descriptions of both terms — for instance, a mature, hairy, and rugged older man. And “urso” is used in Brazil far more than “bear” — though you can find more English speakers and global travelers who will use “bear”. Then, there’s “daddy”. A “coroa” can sometimes overlap with the concept of a “daddy” used in North America, but there are differences in connotation. In U.S. gay culture, a “daddy” is typically an older man who is seen as sexually desirable, often confident, nurturing, or protective. The term often carries a playful, flirtatious, or explicitly sexual or dominant undertone, often linked to a power dynamic. The coroa can but may not necessarily be viewed as a daddy — it really depends on the context and the individual’s vibe. While coroa can sometimes imply physical attractiveness (like the term “silver fox” in the USA), it doesn’t inherently carry the sexualized or dominant undertones of “daddy.” It’s important to note (especially in the context of the original post) that. in a country like Brazil with far more (socioeconomic) class delineation between rich and poor than in the USA, Canada or Western Europe, that the coroa and the daddy are almost always the financially stable providers. This is the case whether or not the younger / other partner considers himself a sex worker or not.

That was only because it was closed on its regular Tuesday, due to New Year’s Eve. Call that a “special event”.

The recent well-publicized unaliving of the straight American male tourist who picked up two female whores in Lapa and with his friend, brought them back to their AirBnBs where one of them OD’d on “Boa Noite Cinderela” happened on my side of Ipanema. But there have been a combination of true tales — both straight AND gay — that are resulting in the clampdowns. Brazil is a very class-conscious country, and these Zona Sul areas in Rio where the sex tourists come to play are also in or around the best, most expensive real estate in the city. The top percent that lives here and runs the city knows it goes on (they even partake in it themselves, in many cases!), but they’re saying, “take it elsewhere. Don’t shit where we eat and sleep.” Local whoremongers go to the love motels or leave it at the saunas / brothels. What we DON’T want is for Rio to become yet another one of those cities that severely restricts or even bans short-term rentals like AirBnB or VRBO. But it’s always the dummies with inconsiderate, careless disregard who screw it up for the rest of us.

I live and own in Ipanema. My entire building is 24/7 doorman and has a “guests can have no unauthorized guests” policy. A lot of the apartments in the “nicer” buildings in Ipanema, Leblon and the more desirable parts of Copacabana are starting to institute this kind of policy — for safety reasons. There have been some recent (some well publicized, some not very known but to locals) incidents prompting these concerns. The condo boards and management companies are getting stricter with short-term rental policies. I have a rental here I own and no longer rent to guests who plan to bring any “company”. In spite of this development, my rental remains booked at capacity, and there are probably still plenty of other places to short-term rent in and outside of the area that will allow guests to have visitors.

But I addressed this very point in my comment upthread: ”Mondays being the most common. Club 117 was still closed on Mondays back then and Junior Barbosa was still the manager and owner back then. This was happening both before and after the pandemic.” 2 decades of going to Rio. I can’t recall Club 117 ever being open on Mondays to the public. That could be the reason free cabin nights at Point 202 changed exclusively from Monday to Wednesday after all these years. Unless you’re privy to the internal business decisions there (maybe you are?), it’s really hard to definitively say that it won’t EVER happen since the free cabin day has been changed, added and subtracted a number of times over the years.

I’m just reading this. This is such an odd hill to want to die on! Yes, right now, at this moment in time, Wednesday happens to be the only free cabin night at Point 202, but in the very recent past (like in the last few years) 202 has had free suite days on days other than Wednesday — Mondays being the most common. Club 117 was still closed on Mondays back then and Junior Barbosa was still the manager and owner back then. This was happening both before and after the pandemic. Here are some still posted flyers from Point 202’s Facebook page showing “free suites on Monday” in 2020 and 2018 (“Segunda-feira” or “segunda” is Monday, and “suites liberdades” means “free suites” in Brazilian Portuguese).

As a permanent resident, homeowner and brick-and-mortar business owner here in Rio, let me assure you that there are other costs besides rent or mortgage or menu items — and all of those costs have gone up with inflation. Electricity, water, gas. This is going to hurt the Brazilian clients and the working boys the most. The boys will probably feel they have no other choice but to try to bump up their prices, to go with inflation and cover the increase in entrance fees for them. I think it’s foolish to think that the garotos’ programa prices will drop as a result (not that YOU who I’m responding to might be thinking this, just anyone who might be). However, I do agree that Monik should invest in sprucing up the place — starting with updating the suites! As a longtime, regular customer, I’d feel a lot better about the price increases if I could see that the money is going into bettering the client experience — which includes aesthetics. Those round beds, plastic mattresses and flimsy linens are just awful!

Yes, this is all true. Also it’s worth noting that 117 also raised the entry fee for the garotos from 35 R to 50 R. Not long before that, it was 25 R. Inflation is a serious problem here in Brazil. Will there be enough boys that can afford to front a 50 R entrance fee, not knowing in advance how or if they will earn it back? Keep in mind that many if not most of the boys travel a long way to work at the club. Also, Brazilian clients (who earn their money in the Brazilian currency) have always been the most consistent client base. They also will feel the squeeze of higher entrance fees and cabin fees (and probably drink / menu prices, too). How this will affect attendance or spending at the club remains to be seen. Then again, with prices rising everywhere in Brazil, and the exchange rate being less and less favorable for Brazilians, there may be no other choice for these venues to keep the engine running but to go with the trend of raising prices. It’s either this or close up shop.

Just curious. Are you a big fan of Prince? He famously substituted words in his song lyrics for numbers.

Yes, by “I live here” I meant in Rio, not in the hot tub, Point 202 or any other sauna. Though I suppose it would be possible to attend the sauna so much that it could practically become your residence, I’m not aware of any client who has actually pulled that particular trigger yet. (A few working garotos have stayed temporarily in rooms at the saunas before. I think that would require a special arrangement with the manager or owner.)

Hi, long time Rio resident / expat here. This whole back and forth about whether or not there is higher pricing for gringos / tourists is never going to be solved. The answer is: “it all depends”. (1) It depends on who the garoto is. Some garotos price themselves higher than some others — usually because they look like male supermodels or are built like professional athletes, or are hung like a Shire horse — and the market has already taught them what price point they can command. (2) It depends on who the client is. Often, like with many other kinds of services, regular clients get reduced rates. A client that may not be seen ever again, or at the most only once or twice a year, or who may not see him regularly but also doesn’t provide him fringe benefits like gifts and Western Union, probably should not expect this kind of discount for a programa. Also, like it or not, looks / attraction as well as age, charm and personality, do matter to quite a few of the garotos — whether “straight”-identifying or not. The extremely rare superstar client that resembles something like George Clooney, Henry Cavill, Ricky Martin or Idris Elba would get this “discount.” But the overwhelming majority of us clients not blessed with such physical gifts aren’t in this category, and have to flirt with our wallets instead. (3) It depends on what the client wants out of the programa. Asking a garoto to do more performative or more “difficult” or unusual sex work in a short programa — especially for a visiting, rare client — is more likely to increase the cost. Remember, these are human beings, not machines. Yes, there are some garotos who want take advantage, act like scoundrels and charge foreigners more just because they’re gringos and might be naive or unaware of the current market. There are also some who will charge the same, no matter who the client is or what is done during the act. But the price is also to be negotiated and agreed upon in advance, each garoto charges his own price, and he is not obliged to charge the same price as the others, nor is he obligated to charge each client the same. The guys all are independent contractors, not employees of the saunas. The client goes into this knowingly and willingly. It seems like the problem arises when clients take these pricing differences personally. Hey, I’ve also seen the reverse occur: garotos getting upset when they somehow find out that a client paid another garoto more than him! So, it all evens out, I suppose… Gringos / tourists paying more has always been part of “the game.” It’s not like how it is with gentrifying-areas real estate prices; it’s more like tourist-area restaurants or gift shop two-tier pricing. It doesn’t seriously affect local pricing, and locals already know about the two-tier system. Gringos also try to “game” the system themselves by getting local pricing on what basically amounts to only a few dollars, euros or pounds difference between the two. Hope this helps.

Thanks.

Thanks.

Yes, I have. I live here. It’s used about 50% of the time when it’s operable, but it’s often not operable — like with the hot water in the showers.

The airport in Porto Alegre, the main city in Rio Grande do Sul, has been closed since May due to the terribly, deadly flooding in the region. Reports are that it will not re-open until December, at the earliest. https://www.argusmedia.com/en/news-and-insights/latest-market-news/2574807-brazil-s-porto-alegre-airport-to-stay-shut-to-dec

Fair enough. That’s actually the best we all can hope for — an even, fair exchange.

I said before, I think I posted at the other similar board, that in reality, in all my years of being in this sauna scene, there have been only a few charmed-life clients that the guys really, really are into and want to have sexy time with. Like I can count them on one hand and still have some fingers on that hand left. The rest, the overwhelming majority, to some varying degrees, are walking, traveling wallets and Papas Noel (Santa Clauses). I understand it’s good for the ego to feed into the fantasy and delusion of it all that these beautiful young studs like us for us, and many of them are very good at playing as if they do (those are the best at their jobs). But falling for the “hooker with a heart of gold” story or getting a savior complex over these working guys down here is falling into the most common trap. One of my best friends here in Brazil is an older, retired garoto de programa. He keeps it real with me about these guys whenever I am on that proverbial ledge, and reminds me that their job is to get the dinheiro and presentes from the clients, and as friendly as everything seems, that’s always going to be the nature of the relationship. Give and take — you give, they take. You can be a kind client without being a fool with your money or your heart. And if you still decide to be “generous” and give into their asks, then Dear God, give with absolutely no expectation at all and don’t give anything close to what you can afford to lose.

Thanks. I used real life examples. 🙂

I think you meant to type you feel “exploited”? Because that makes more sense. I’ve been living here in Brazil full-time for several years now, and I can tell you that the asking from the boys / garotos is never-ending. The reasons for needing the dinheiro or the presente can run from the very very stereotypical (“sick grandmother”) to the very practical (“need a new iPhone to replace my broken phone”) to the very creative (“want to buy an açaí cart to become a beach vendor”) to the brutally honest (“I need a new watch to look good for the ladies at the discoteca on Saturday night”). No matter the reason, it’s best just to say no, politely and firmly. The first reason is because once you say yes, the asks never end and usually they increase in value and complexity. Also, it’s a numbers game with these boys. They all have a list of Cliente contacts to make asks for dinheiro and presented. If out of 100 who they can ask, just 1 or 2 respond favorably, that’s a win for them. Now, imagine if 4 respond favorably. In spite what they say, you’re almost never their only option for help. More importantly, all that giving doesn’t make the boys like you or love you any more than the clients who don’t. Remember, in spite of the sweet talk, or the talk about how rough their lives are in Brazil, that this is their job, and receiving dinheiro and presentes from clientes outside of sex work, to them, is just another form of payment for their job. Yes, be nice and kind, but nicely, kindly, and firmly tell them no.