Department_Of_Agriculture

Who is behind the DOS attack on the ASEAN Now (previously known as Thai Visa) forum this week? Thailand’s largest expat forum has been inaccessible since early afternoon Thursday Thai time and as at the time of publishing this column, it has yet to come back online. In response to email, ASEAN Now explained that the outage is due to a DOS attack (denial of service). These sorts of attacks are typically the work of someone with an axe to grind – of which the forum seems to have plenty of potential candidates – or in the case of big businesses, may be a blackmail attempt. https://www.stickmanbangkok.com/weekly-column/2023/11/stickman-weekly-november-19-2023/

Those are often the most interesting part a trip report and I am sure that most readers would be happy to hear about that part of your trip as well. At least I would.

An excellent post from Moses, revealing, yet again, the ignorance and prejudice of the usual long-winded windbag in the opening post.

Yes, thankfully. They have gone back to their Soi Twilight policy of "Only Thai Boys" and of having the most expensive drinks of any bar. First drink at Dream Boy was 550 baht on Soi Twilight in 2019, not 650 baht. In real terms however, their drink price today is actually lower than it was in 2019. Even if we take inflation at just 4% per year since 2019, the price of a drink at Dream Boy toady is 470 baht in 2019 terms. In real terms, prices have gone down, not up. Real inflation - especially urban inflation - has actually been higher than that since the pandemic, though. Similarly, the average asking price for a short time at Dream Boy was 2,000 baht on Soi Twilight and that is still what many - or most - of them ask for. At 4% inflation, that now comes to about 1,700 baht in 2019 terms. Even the boys who ask for 2,500 baht today are only asking for fractionally more than the average Dream Boy price on Soi Twilight in real terms. I. therefore, find it hard to agree when some people complain that Bangkok is now overpriced.

He quite obviously noticed them. Hard not to notice when the signage is offering Dream Boys, Hot Male, Fresh Boys and Screw Boys. It probably wasn't wasn't what he was expecting in the famous Patpong and was not quite sure what to say. To his credit. unlike some commentators, that didn't lead to negative remarks. Unfortunate but not unexpected. His previous video was on Patpong 1 and the touts, bouncers and girls there are much more cagey about being filmed. He obviously carried that caution over to Patpong 2 as well. Would have been nice if he had panned the camera when passing the boy bars, but each focuses on what interests us.

The first video I have seen that features the new Sol bar, as well as Virgin, that new straight bar that recently opened towards the Silom end of Patpong 2. Some familiar faces in that video. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7qZqBKyNBa8 It was shot on Friday night last week. A bit quiet for a Friday night, but it might just have been early. The video was shot by someone on their first visit to Patpong, The wide-eyed "can this actually be happening?" tone is amusing in its own right. A nice reminder of how overwhelming, how exhilarating it can all e the first time.

One major reason for that might be that quite a few customers regard the Vietnamese as a plague on the Bangkok bar scene on account of their attitudes. That has been discussed on other threads on this forum and elsewhere as well. Of course they have their takers, who are mostly Chinese. A common pushy attitude makes them culturally compatible, I suppose. and the Chinese tend to favour fairer skin, which suits me just fine. The customers I would rather not see going with the boys that I would never want is a win-win for all. Also, that ugly tattoo may have put quite a few people off, although there will definitely be some who find it appealing. On balance, though. I doubt that it helps him. In any event, Dream Boy wasn't a hotbed of customers looking for Viets. He was probably in the wrong place. I have never heard of a bar turning down boys because they are too full. Generally, the more boys the better as it means more business for the bar. Considering that Fresh Boys is full of Viets and attracts customers who like that look, one would have thought they would be keen on him. They would only have turned him down if they did not think he was salebale or if he had a bad reputation. Maybe the fact that he was only keen on collecting his allowance for showing-up at Dream Boy was a deterrent. On Dream Boy going back to being an only Thai boys bar, that is the best news from Bangkok all year. Good riddance to the foreigners. Many of the Thai boys there weren't happy about the influx of non-Thais. As one of them said to me on LINE shortly after the recent episode, "Foreigners cannot be trusted." A bit harsh, but understandable. They used to advertise proudly that their bar was "Only Thai Boys" and I look forward to seeing that sign out there again. On Sol, I look forward to someone eventually sharing some real information on that bar, although what has been visible so far looks quite promising. I haven't seen anything on the other two forums either and as both of those seem quite dead, I won't be holding my breath either. Some intrepid member of this forum will have to venture in and report back as a public service.

I notice that you seem too embarrassed to admit the fact that you were completely wrong about what the groper actually said and did. That renders anything else you have to say on the matter pointless. A whole lot flaming over nothing really. Anyhow, back to the more interesting topic of comings and goings in Patpong...

I wasn't going to bother replying to those rather strange, flaming posts above as they detract from what this thread supposed to be about and we have certainly gone off tangent when you start dragging that post by "Orson" into this otherwise excellent thread that you started. But I am going to respond because you are misstating what the groper actually said and did. Here he is, in his own words. Did you actually read what the groper said? And if you did, did you understand what he said? He did not say "the masseur had grazed his genitals", which you seem to think is the case. He said that he put his hands on the boy's genitals. Your statement above is completely off. It was he who fondled the boy, as he gleefully informed us - not that the boy had grazed him. To state the obvious, a masseur's hand grazing your genitals while giving you a full body or oil massage is virtually a given. That does not give you a reciprocal right to molest the masseur in return. Boys who work at Prime know perfectly well they could be earning more by working in one of those hanky panky places just a hundred feet away. They choose not to because they want to deal with situations like this - they are not there to earn from being groped or to sell themselves. They are not there to he harrassed. They are professionals who have trained to this job and those who choose to go there should respect the boys' choice. As I said, at a bare minimum, that would mark "Orson" out as a sex pest in the West. I stand by that. I would not have bothered responding to the above, except that you seem to have misunderstood or be misstating what the groper said. You are more than welcome to lambast me for calling him out for it, but do not misstate the facts and paint the groper as some sort of poor victim of an unfair attack. The only victim here was the boy. As far as "The Jew" goes, do any of you actually know him? He is not Israeli, which for some bizarre reason you seem to automatically assume. His background is far more complex than that and his self-declared identity is that of a "Jew". I honestly can't be bothered about anyone flaming about my use of "The Jew" or saying that "no explanation or justification can be accepted" insofar as no explanation or justification is needed. I am only commenting on it only because I am already on here commenting on the misrepresentation of the words and deeds of the sex pest above. On a separate note, why do you automatically assume that if he is a Jew he must be Israeli? On the flip side, the assumption that all Israeli nationals are Jews is also false. Jews make up 73% of the population. Michael is not an Israeli, but he is, very much, a Jew. Insofar as this was actually a good thread before the flamers went off on a tangent, I have nothing further to say on either of these issues. The sooner it goes back to being about "Patpong Comings and Goings" the better.

Not exactly true. Saying that "it steadfastly declined to acknowledge the existence of Patpong’s all-male bars scene" suggest a deliberate refusal to acknowledge the gay presence in Patpong, which is far from the case. The museum dealt only with Patpong proper, i.e. Patpong 1 and 2, and not with the wider "Patpong" entertainment zone, which would also include Soi 2, Soi 4, Soi 6 and Soi Twilight. There have been gay bars in Patpong proper since the 1980s, but there was never a cluster of them in one place until 2019 - and since the museum did not tell the history of every individual Patpong bar, except for the really iconic ones like Grand Prix and Superstar, there was no reason to expect mention of any of the gay bars. That was actually somewhat amusing considering that the Patpong Museum site was once home to a gay bar. The Jew who owned the museum had previously owned the Bua Luang group of bars in the 90s that was very gay friendly, even having host nights and advertising in gay magazines. He was also, reportedly, looking at opening a male bar before the pandemic struck, in addition to that string of lady bars that he had on Patpong 2. Of course, that is not going to happen now that he is rotting in jail in Phuket. Also, if you look at the second picture of the model of Patpong 2 that you have posted above, it does include the gay bars that moved there in 2019. The signs for Dream Boy, Lucky Boys and Fresh Boys are all clearly visible. The bars only moved there in 2019, after the model had already been built but it was updated to include the gay bars that had already moved to Patpong 2 before the model was put on display. Hot Male was the last to move and that was after the model had been updated and therefore is not included in that display. They did not update it again after that because they had plans to replace or upgrade the entire thing with a more elaborate version that would include the actual interiors of all the bars. Then came the pandemic and then the owner's arrest earlier this year before any of that could happen. The entire thing was a work in progress that has been cut short and the lack of information about gay bars in Patpong was not discrimination, it was just bad timing. I repost that picture of the model, including the gay bars.

What were you expecting him to do? Set-off his rape alarm? Are you really so pathetically desperate that you need to paw away at a boy who is giving you a massage in a legitimate massage place? If that is what you wanted, you should have gone to the places that offer those services one hundred feet away. Why go and sexually assault a boy who has chosen to work at a legitimate massage parlour and trained to do so? At a bare minimum, your behaviour would mark you out a sex pest in the West; more likely it would have led to a police report and you, rightly, being detained for sexual assault. It's a shame that people like you think that you have the licence to act like an animal when in Thailand simply because a boy may choose to avoid causing a scene in order not to jeapordise his job.

That says more about the state of your arse hole than it does anything about Asians.

You are conflating things. My comment had to do with the personal cleanliness of the Thais, not the state of public lavatories. Most Thais bathe twice a day, at least, and they wash themselves after taking a crap. Thais are fastidiously clean. The state of some of the public lavatories is actually a result of that. In lower-end place where you have a hose to wash with, water is going to keep dribbling even after you have switched the tap off. Even in places where you have a hand held douche, they tend to get worn out from heavy usage and there may be water on the floor from dripping or leakage. That has nothing to do with the personal hygiene of the Thais. Wet floors may be unpleasant, but if it’s a trade-off between a wet floor and a clean arse, the latter is preferable. In some higher-end venues they have got around this problem by installing those little jets for washing directly into the WC, so there is no dripping or leakage. As noted by Ichigo above, the Crowne Plaza is one such venue. You see the same with most native people in Southeast Asia. You will also see that when travelling through Thailand, Malaysia, Indonesia etc. Loos are wet precisely because the people are clean - because there are washing facilities. Of course, as noted earlier, that does not always apply to the Chinese residents of the region. Even after several generations of being in a region where washing is expected, many still don’t wash. In Farangland, lavatories may be clean and dry, but that is because of a lack of washing facilities. The trade-off in many places is dry floors for dirty arses. Thankfully, that isn’t true of all countries though. Bidets are legally mandated in Italy, for example. It is in the heretical, Protestant countries that things are at their worst. By contrast, I can assure you that the pope has a clean bottom. Of course, in China it is the worst of both worlds. They walk around with dirty, unwashed arses yet they have dirty loos as well. To tie this tangent back to the OP’s original question, I will share this little anecdote. When in Chiang Mai last December, I went to the Michelin-recommended Paak Dang restaurant. It is owned by a Singaporean Chinese couple. Chiang Mai was fairly quiet and the restaurant almost empty. The only other table was a party of mainland Chinese - seven or eight of them – being very loud. It was slightly irritating but we were all there for a good time and it would have been churlish to hold it against them for enjoying themselves the way that they do. Anyhow, they eventually finished their meal and left, giving us some peace and quiet. Perhaps half an hour later, as we also prepared to leave, I went to use the loo. It was an absolute disaster zone. I won’t go into details but, inter alia, there were shoe prints on the toilet seat and tonnes of wet tissue on the floor and the douche lying on the floor in a puddle. The flush must also have been an alien contraption to them. These were people who could afford to travel abroad and dine in a Michelin Guide restaurant. I went to the lady owner and said that she might want to take a look at the loo. She asked “why?”. I said “well, you had a party of mainland Chinese here earlier…”. As soon as I got to “mainland Chin”, she audibly groaned. Her reaction was not a bad as that of the two Thai boys she brought along to clean-up the mess, though. Ask those Thai boys what they really think of the Chinese.

Many Thais dislike the Chinese. They find them loud, rude, pushy and dirty. Bar boys complaining about the Chinese not washing their arses after taking a crap and merely wiping with paper is hardly uncommon. The Chinese only wash when they bathe - and that holds true of many "diaspora" Chinese as well. To the Thais, who are ultra-clean, that is pretty revolting. Ask your favourite bar boy what he thinks of the Chinese when it comes to hygiene and you will rarely get a flattering answer. Of course. poor anal and genital hygiene among he Chinese is an issue that usually only impacts bar boys and girls. For most of the Thais, their dislike of the Chinese has to do with attitude and behaviour - rude, pushy, noisy and inconsiderate. Added to that has been the growing sense among many Thais - particularly smaller traders - that the Chinese are stealing business and opportunities from them by running illegal businesses in the country. A good many businesses in Chinatown are now owned by mainlanders, acting in concert with local nominees who are usually village idiots who have been paid a few thousand baht to sign a piece of paper. Some of that is covered in this Bangkok Post article. https://www.bangkokpost.com/thailand/general/2632507/rough-start-for-new-chinatown?utm_campaign=Article&utm_source=article_suggestion_thailand&utm_medium=reccommended&utm_content=suggestion-article Of course, there is a limit to how much anti-Chinese sentiment can be expressed in the mainstream media, given that most of it is owned by "Thai Chinese". For every negative opinion about the Chinese they publish, they will be sure to publish one or two positive comments. Opinion on the street is less flattering, though. There is also growing resentment among the middle-class about Chinese pushing-up property prices and rentals. Considering what the Thais actually think of the Chinese, it is no surprise that your Thai friend wants to get out that building. It would have been a greater surprise if he had been keen on staying. So, "How do Thais View the Chinese?" - not very positively. Incidentally, many Thais dislike the Vietnamese for many of the same reasons - rude and aggressive. To quote one popular Tawan boy, "You know, many Thai people no like Vietnam(ese)". Admittedly, that was before he met a rich, attractive, young Vietnamese woman. On the issue of poor Chinese anal hygiene, see this bitch fight on a Singaporean forum. Note that the guilty parties don't deny it; they would just rather that it was not mentioned: https://www.blowingwind.io/forum/topic/36263-where-to-find-date-caucasians-ang-moh-g-w-m-in-sg-compiled/page/7/#comment-2707863 Bar boys will take their money, but they are not fond of the Chinese.

If by "sex show" you mean a full-on fuck show, the answer is that there are none left in Bangkok, at least as far as I know. Patpong used to be the centre for that, but there are no longer any ladyboy bars in Patpong following the pandemic. Of the two on Soi Cowboy - Cockatoo and Shadows - neither has fuck shows. Come to think of it. I don't even remember whether Shadows reopened or not. Cockatoo is still there, but there are no fuck shows. The main centre for ladyboy bars is now Nana Plaza. There are several of them and Obsession, on the ground floor, is the most popular of them, by far. All these bars have dudes with boobs / chicks with dicks, of the type that you are looking for. Just go there, spend a bit of time and tell them what you are looking for. If all you want is to fondle a ladyboy's breasts though, you can do that in almost any katoey bar on Soi Cowby or Nana.

More worrying than the disappearance of "Scam Dick" is the Chinese script on the signage. The last thing we need are hordes of them descending on Boyz Town. BBB should serve as a warning on the outcome.

Oh? What has Monkey ToysClub changed its name to and is it still the same format and ownership? Is 181 for sale as a going business or is it just the venue that is for sale?

Did she have a penis? Was she a ladyboy?

That is not a gift, but a trap. That is a black magic object of the type that bar girls - and, less commonly, bar boys - use to trap a client into a long-term relationship for their benefit. Your "I decide that his little statuette deserves, if nothing else, some cash at least" statement suggests that it already seems to be doing its job. If you are still in Thailand, I suggest that you give it to a monk at the nearest temple. If you are already at the airport and flying to your home country (which is obvious enough, though it need not be named), give it to the Thai temple there, if they are willing to accept it. Either way, get rid of it respectfully. Don't just throw it away, but do get rid of it fast. That is not a good object. Everyone is free to believe and do what they will, of course, but it would be remiss of someone who has some awareness of these things to remain silent in a situation like this.

The mamasan will tell you whatever is necessary to close the deal. If he thinks you're a top, he'll tell you that most are gay. If he thinks you're a bottom, he'll tell you that most are straight. A minimum of 2,000 for a short time in most Pattaya bars would be...generous. Or was that for an overnight? The boys at Nice Boys are nice. Even if they are not the most handsome by conventional standards, most have great attitudes. The customers, on the other hand, are often the bottom of the barrel - emphasis on bottom, although quite a few of them also resemble barrels. Alas, that bar, more than any other, attracts a lot of lowlifes. Should be an interesting first visit.

Actually rather nice to read an actual trip report that isn't just another tedious litany of "when and where I got fucked in the arse", - or the pursuit thereof - which is, effectively, what most of them are these days. Let us hope it doesn't go south from here...

Tawan started-out as a twink bar when it was on Surawong Road in the 80s. It only gradually became a muscle man bar. It was several years before the first muscle men started showing-up and they had both twinks and hunks alongside each other for several years. That is the original location. The others are all branches. Mango Tree is owned by the same people who own that Chinese restaurant across the road from it; or at least it was.

An up-to-date map would have to be no more than two weeks old, since that new bar, Sol, only opened a little more than two weeks ago. All maps are out of date. As you noted, things are more spread-out now and, although it doesn't include a map, the most useful guide that I am aware of is that Sawatdee thread that I linked to before in the new Dreamboy thread on here. It covers most of the bars, the renamings, relocations etc. and is quite detailed about where what is. It hasn't been updated for quite a while though and there are several changes that have occurred since then but it is useful because it is both comprehensive and concise. See: https://sawatdeenetwork.com/v4/showthread.php?22922-Bangkok-Scene-All-Change-but-Same-Same The changes since then are: Screw Boy reopened about six months ago, in its old location on Patpong 2. A new bar, called Sol, opened on Patpong 2 in the ground floor location that was previously occupied by Dream Boy a couple of weeks ago. See: https://www.gayguides.com/forums/topic/39457-patpong-comings-and-goings/?do=findComment&comment=362729 9-Teen Massage has opened on Soi 6, alongside the other massage parlours near the Silom Road end of that soi. I think that makes it five of them in that short stretch. Also, the New Twilight Bar (aka Queen Club) mentioned in that thread has plunged into the abyss. That's the only one on that list that is no longer around. Finally, the excellent Surawong Cafe that is recommended in that thread has rebranded as Alley's, and the pizza is as good as described. If anyone is aware of an up-to-date map or a more up-to-date overview of the scene, please share.

Thank you making my point about the pointlessness of having a separate "Gay Thailand Businesses" section which is missed by most readers, viewers and visitors. It is often overlooked; even by someone like you who has been on this site for eight years... SOL is indeed a new bar that has opened in the old Dream Boy location.