SolaceSoul

Your comments make no sense if you’re addressing them to me. I absolutely loathe your Dotard President. People of color are not the ones who voted him into office and definitely not black men. You should address your comments to your brethren like gay white men and white women who supported him in unusually large numbers.

“Assumptions”? Ignore to your own peril, but the poster gleefully posted a video of him having bareback sex with a garoto that he himself said he met at Lions. You cheered this video. Those aren’t assumptions. Those are facts entered into evidence. I’m not posting for your benefit, and couldn’t care less of you read or respond, but I’m doing so to indicate to others here who may read this that this is completely unacceptable behavior.

One thing that really absolutely gets my goat more than anything are these entitled Westerners who travel to places where darker, poorer people are much less privileged and then take advantage of them by doing things like using their monetary influence to have irresponsible, unsafe sex with them. And then BRAG about it. Or encourage this kind of behavior by patting those who do it on the back with “good job!” I don’t care if you’re on PrEP. The other party in a developing nation may not have access to top-shelf medical care like you, and also PrEP does zero for the spread of other deadly or chronic sexually transmitted diseases like hrpatitis or meningitis, or the new viral-resistant gonorrhea which are all on the rise with gays in the USA because they are back to barebacking. It’s not that hard to be a responsible whore or an ethical sex tourist.

Of course I am not your type. I’m over the age of 18, over 165 pounds, and I don’t need the little spending money you earn as a (really ineffective) public school teacher.

“Good for him” that he’s knowingly engaging in risky sexual practices and behavior with young men in developing countries who are economically desperate? What a real POS you are, but not that I’m surprised at all, based on your posts. You honestly better pray that we never personally meet.

Some smaller misshaped pots can’t find a lid in 117, so they venture off to Lions where lids like those pots.

As my grandmother always said, “there’s a lid for every pot.”

The owner of Lions is an American whose first name, I believe, is James. Hopefully, for his sake, he has a more diversified investment portfolio than this sauna. Acyr is not really an owner as much as he is a promoter for the C-list and D-list less desirable garotos in Rio.

First question: yes. Second question: no, especially depending on the city and the sauna.

One more time, for those in the back of the room: the pay saunas that are going under are not the ones that specialize in the physical ideal / physically unattainable men and women. The saunas that are flopping or that have flopped are the ones that feature average Joes and Jills. And regarding the claim that if garotos have to leave a sauna without making money off a programa, then they will stop coming to the sauna altogether and the sauna will suffer: The only garotos that don’t make money on the best sauna nights are the least desirable ones. The garotos that I prefer somehow NEVER seem to go home broke without a programa. In fact, they usually arrive late / leave early. It’s somehow always seems to be those sad sack barely-legal boney-thin twinks and “boys next door” that are begging for money at the end of the night, because they need to pay their entrance fee. It reminds me of the posters who often regale the readers with stories about garotos who choose to spend inordinate amounts of time with them at their tables and then dinner or their apartments / hotels. Those are the ones that really have no other options! A garoto that is making money doesn’t waste a lot of time lollygagging at the bar tables with some clients — unless that client has booked them in advance for the entire night.

@Gotti, I think you will agree with me that very few well-paying customers at a whore house (by “well-paying”, I mean to both the house AND the boys, not just entry fee) really give more than two shits about the stage. I notice that at every sauna, there are always a select few sloths who sit at tables almost the entire time and anxiously salivate and anticipate the drag-hosted lip-synched torch songs, comedy routines, and gogo boy show. However, although they are consistent customers, let’s just all intelligently agree from this point on that they are in the minority. The real activity is happening with the garotos. A few may stop and sit at client tables to chat and get free drinks and food, but again, the real action occurs in the orbit. That stage is small and awkward. But in its defense, considering the space, there really wasn’t anywhere else for it to go. Another thing I forgot to mention was trekking to the new Lagoa by Metro (subway). If you aren’t into cardio, and not a brisk walker, and you are averse to walking confidently and courageously on city streets, then do NOT attempt to take the subway! It’s going to be a challenge for you. I would not call it “dangerous”, because it’s mostly well-traveled by cars down Rua da Consolação, but if you’re not accustomed to São Paulo streets, and you aren’t into long walks, it’s not a good idea for you to risk the subway. Take an Uber or a cab to and from the sauna.

On that particular trip, I flew into São Paulo and visited 5 Brazilian cities in 5.5 weeks. That’s a nice time of year to visit São Paulo.

The old Lagoa, architecturally, was magnificent. Other than Dragon in Fortaleza, I could not think of a more beautiful men for men pay sauna. Previously, and this is probably not just a coincidence that this was when it had three owners (not just Rodolfo), Lagoa was also known to have the best-looking, best built, most otherwise physically unattainable working men at any men for men sauna. But yes, in the last year or so, the old Lagoa did see a decline in this status or a bit of a shift in the types of garotos that were available. If neither of these are desirable to you, then the old Lagoa (pre-2016) would probably not have been your speed.

If you cannot talk about pre-2016, then you really have very little to which to compare pay saunas! As a paying client, I would judge a “slow day” at a sauna not by how many clients are there but by how many working guys there are. If there are 600 Fred Flintstone looking clients at the bar watching a drag / gogo show and chucking it up, and there are only 3 garotos, to me, that’s a slow sauna night. A 3:1 or 4:1 ratio would be ideal, especially if it’s not filled with regular looking guys off the block. It’s what keeps Centaurus (straight Rio whorehouse) on top, stacked. with the most desirable women, and Rio’s 117 has definitely gotten close to a 3:1 ratio on its better nights recently and in the past. 2:1 should be the absolute bare minimum of what is expected at any whore house. Otherwise, garotos are having their pick of clients — and frankly, many if you don’t want to be left with the very real prospect t of being on the short end of THAT stick. (So, you like PAYING to get rejected?) The new Lagoa has struggled with a 1:1 garoto:client ratio and even one night had a 1:2 garoto:client ratio. THAT. IS. NOT. GOOD. I don’t care if you like street trade, muscle boys, pretty model types, porno whores or barely legal twinks. A 1:2 ratio is DISMAL for a pay sauna. Factor in that there is now at Lagoa even less of what I happily pay for — otherwise seemingly unattainable types — and that is problematic. Although, as I previously posted, it was better on Friday night. I never once experienced a room wait during these Lagoa visits, as I sometimes do on the busier nights at 117 or 202. Even on Friday night when I had my three different programas, it was instant room availability. So all those thin twinky types that posters at this particular niche board (aptly named “BOY TOY”) rave about sure weren’t occupying any suites.

I go to Salvador every year. Been there, done that. I reviewed Olympus in a previous thread about Salvador along with 11 and Fox.

I was in São Paulo on business, so to see for myself, I went to the new Espaço Lagoa on Wednesday, Friday and Saturday. Here are my personal results and observations: Lagoa on Wednesday: I arrived at Lagoa about 5:45pm. It was raining very badly. The first thing I noticed was that the place looks like every other smaller sauna now. — nothing special or majestic like the previous Lagoa, which was like walking into a dreamscape. The long tunnel ramp down to the entrance is very strange, indeed. The owner really should find a better use of that space. Also, the stairwells on each side, particularly the one that is more like a down ramp, do seem very clumsy as take quite a bit of getting used to. The other stairway, the normal one, seemed fine to me, honestly. It really was no worse than the ones at 117 or 202. But those ramp stairs are just really strange and clumsy — and parts are dangerous because there is no reflective or bright lighting on the dark stairs to let a user know where the stairs end and where the ramp begins. I suppose the ramps are one way to make the sauna “wheelchair accessible” — but not if there is a strange combination of stairs and ramp. As to the rest of the space, it seems even smaller than Point 202. I would say it is even smaller than Sauna Fox in Salvador. I think Rodolfo did as well as he could with the space that he was provided here — but the problem is that this is not a very good space for a sauna in comparison to the previous one. That’s a tall order, admittedly, as the previous space was phenomenal. The main social space — with the bar and the tables and the stage — also overlook the showers. The showers are nice and new — but is a much smaller space now (the sauna / jacuzzi doors are packed into this space and it is hard to navigate when someone else is showering). But I can see here how Rodolfo tried his level best to recreate the same experience from the original Lagoa, but in a much smaller space. The bar area is very reminiscent of the one at 202, or the indoor one at 117 — a cramped space but it is functional. The seating area seemed fine to me. Honestly, I was there for several hours and I never saw — as was earlier reported — how it was so crowded that people could not move or navigate around the area. It never once became that crowded. I always had a table to myself and there were always seats at the bar. Also, and this is even more important, the ratio of garotos to clients was WAY too small! I estimate that there was about 1 garoto for every 1 client there! That is absolutely ridiculous in my opinion! There should be WAY more garotos than clients. For the best “fantasy” experience, there should be about 3 or 4 garotos for every client. Clients want to feel like they can have their pick of garotos — not the other way around! That was about the quantity. Now, for the quality. Or rather, the lack thereof! On Wednesday, the quality of garotos was VERY disappointing. In the past, even as recent as last November, I could go to the old Lagoa, and expect to see close to a DOZEN garotos who were fantasy types for me. On its WORST days, I would see 2-3 garotos at the old Lagoa that I would like to have a programa with. I never had to wait hours for ONE garoto to arrive that I would love to spend time with. Well, Wednesday night, there were ZERO (until the very end... about him later). The garotos there Wednesday night were of smaller, slender, mostly average builds, and the one or two who did have defined or muscular type builds were not even in the same league as what you could easily find at 117 (or even 202) on their best nights lately. So, I realize this is only judging from one night’s visit, but the quality of garotos at the new Lagoa has definitely diminished from before. I do understand that the old Lagoa had already been declining in its garoto quality from its previous heyday, so perhaps this is just a logical extension. But I do not buy Rodolfo’s lame excuse about trying to reduce overcrowding by limiting it to certain kinds of garotos. Because (1) there should always be at least 3 times as many working boys as there are clients, and Wednesday night, the ratio was close to 1:1, and (2) the sauna was not so crowded that people could not move or navigate through. The garotos at a high-end sauna like Lagoa or 117 should ALWAYS look better than the garotos at Fragata, Bar Fama or off the street or Grindr — and Wednesday night, a previous high point night for Lagoa, for the most part, they did not. Now, after having a caipirinha and being seated at a prominent table for quite some time (maybe about an hour or so), I was approached by about 4 boys during that time. Two were cute but not my type — slender, “fit” builds, more like aspiring soccer, swimmer or tennis player builds (what I call typical “disco bodies”). I had brief conversations with them to be polite, but I wasn’t going to spend my money on any of them. During these conversations, I mentioned to each garoto that I preferred the old Lagoa to this one, and that I was not happy with the choices in garotos at this one. They all responded to me that every client that they talk to agrees with me, that everyone liked the old sauna better. One garoto informed me that most or all of these garotos are “new meat” and they did not work at the old sauna. I can verify that I did not see one garoto on Wednesday night that I recognized from the old Lagoa. I was very disappointed, because there were some old garoto faces and bodies that I wanted to see. One garoto even agreed with me that the boys there at the new Lagoa now look the same as they do at Fragata! So, if you like the type at Fragata and think that’s your fantasy type or you’d be happy paying for that, then you will also like this new version of Lagoa on a Wednesday night. Maybe you do, and that’s fine for you. I just happen not to — AT ALL. During the time I was speaking to one garoto at my table, another garoto approached me. He was a garoto from Salvador that I met a few years ago when I was there. At that point of my visit there, he was the best-looking, most appealing one at Lagoa, but as he was never even one of my top favorites in Salvador — he was just “meh!” to me — that did not bode very well for this visit. I was just getting ready to leave Lagoa out of pure boredom and frustration, when I saw a garoto in a towel that I had never seen before who was like a Brazilian Greek God walk through the bar. I immediately got up and followed him to the banheiro. We talked and agreed to have a programa in 10 minutes. We went up to the suite floor — interesting, because it now has its own check-in concierge on that floor, which I think is a great plus, considering all the flights of stairs to get to the main check-in — and had a great session for 55 minutes. The new rooms are nice — yes, they are. After I paid the garoto and returned the room key, I went to the bar for a bottled water to refresh myself, and he got dressed and then sat at a table with an older (I assume Brazilian) client. I assume that is who he came to Lagoa to see. They later left together. I got dressed at about 8 pm, feeling tired and went back to the hotel, after ordering take out from down the street. My initial impression from only a Wednesday visit was that so far, the new Lagoa is much worse than the old one, and is definitely NOT better than Club 117 or Point 202 in Rio. My thoughts on visiting what once used to be THE premier sauna in the Western Hemisphere is that I should not have to go to Lagoa and only see one garoto that I prefer, and that is only after waiting 90 minutes for a garoto that is my type to appear! But I will say that the previous claims here of it being so ridiculously packed with garotos that clients could not move or sit were just ridiculous. And possibly, the rain that night could’ve played a factor in the low quality of garotos there. So, I did return to Lagoa on Friday and Saturday to get a more complete view and review and to do a comparison on other days later in the week. Lagoa on Friday: I arrived about 4:45 pm. This night was much better than Wednesday. Perhaps the rain storm on Wednesday was the main factor? Anyway, by 6 pm, it was very crowded, but I would still NOT describe it as “cramped” or “overcrowded”, like some did previously at this board. Once you figure out the frustrating maze of the stairs, the space is manageable and pretty nice (and the owner really does need to put reflective tape on some of those stairs, because they are hard to see — and I and one other client almost tripped and fell down those stairs). Now, is it as nice as the old Lagoa? Of course not! But I do think he did well with the limited space that he was given — with a few improvements that would still need to be done in order to make it more user-friendly. Friday night, I ventured to the top floor (I think it’s the 4th floor), where the 2nd bar / seating area, gym, video room and the outdoor smoking section are. This floor has more space for clients and garotos to interact and relax. It’s not as loud or as compact as the main social space on the 2nd floor. Maybe some elderly, overweight, or just cardio-averse clients won’t bother to venture up to this top floor, due to it being up three whole flights of stairs. But the space is there. Now, about trying to find garotos due to the confusing maze of stairs — I didn’t find it all that hard. Of course, I am in good shape and I am not averse to walking up and down a lot of stairs — and make no mistake, there are a lot of stairs here, like an old New York City walk-up! Many clients are not like this, though. Some will probably just go to the second floor (main room) and chill / remain there until when or if it’s time for them to go to the third floor (suite / cabine floor) for a programa. I could definitely see elderly, weight-challenged or disabled clients having navigation issues at the new Lagoa. Now, for the most important part. About the garotos... Friday, there was a better selection than Wednesday. IF Rodolfo was thinking of instituting a hard age restriction, then I did not see it, because some of the garotos over 30 that I remember and liked from before were present, and I know they are over 30 (but they are very muscular and masculine and well-endowed, so maybe these are a part of Rodolfo’s “exceptions”). I saw 5-7 garotos that were my physical type, and I already knew 5 of them. I had 3 programas on Friday, and only 1 was with a new garoto (this programa turned out to be a big disappointment — I will NOT ever repeat with him). Every other garoto that I saw that was my type was someone that I either had already met at Lagoa before or at another sauna in another city. Three programas was a lot for me and definitely over my self-imposed daily budget, so I had to stop after my third (and first ejaculation) for this night. And then I went back to the hotel. I was hoping to see more “new meat”, but considering that I met the Brazilian Greek God on Wednesday (he was there again on Friday and one of my 3 programas — he mostly sat at a table with two older Brazilian queens — one that proudly wears a towel on his head and around his torso just like a woman would at a sauna — when he is not doing a programa), and I met the new garoto (that was a disappointing programa and I will not repeat), I suppose I did meet at least one new garoto that I liked each day thus far. I don’t think those numbers compare well at all to the old Lagoa from 4-5 years ago, but they seem to be on par with my trip to Lagoa from last year. Regarding other garotos (the ones that are not my type), I did notice a trend of more twinky-fied garotos — who for some odd reason, always want to approach me, because I do my absolute best not to even give them any attention or eye contact at all. I don’t get at all why Lagoa is featuring twinks when that is the purview of Fragata. Not that I was focusing on it, but I did not notice the smaller twinkish types being hired much at all by clients, so I don’t agree that most clients go there for that type. Maybe there are a few who do regularly hire them, but they seem to be only a few — a minority, but perhaps a reliable minority. (I also couldn’t help but notice a group of very loud Americans, speaking loudly and obnoxiously in conversation at the bar area. I really do hate that. They give us all a bad name, IMO. Leave your Florida trash in Florida. No one is impressed.) Overall, on Friday, I had a good time at Lagoa (enough of a good time to stay in my hotel room and sleep on a Friday night afterwards!). This night was the closest in reminiscence to the old Lagoa during its prime from 5 or so years ago — although it still did not come close to that. But another thing about the new Lagoa I could not help but notice on Friday: The ratio of garotos-to-clients on Friday was ridiculously low! I would estimate that there was less than 1 working boy for every 1 client. This is absolutely outrageous. As I mentioned before, most of us clients go to pay saunas for garotos de programa and to have a selection of them. There should be at least 3 garotos per client. It should not be a place where clients have to compete for the attention and affection of garotos, but the other way around! If Rodolfo thinks a pay sauna can continue to be financially successful without having lots of great-looking garotos at the disposal for every client, then IMO, he is going to learn a hard valuable financial lesson. There is much more physical room and space for more garotos in there. IF he is concerned about restricting garotos due to space, then that concern seems highly unwarranted to me. The place needs more garotos! A 1:1 garoto-to-client ratio is unacceptable! Lagoa on Saturday night: It was just about as good/bad/meh as it was on Wednesday. So, in my opinion, not very good and not good enough. One of my steady favorites Who was visiting from another city was there again Saturday, like he was on Friday. So I decided to have a programa with him at the sauna and then extend it to an overnight. That was my send-off back from São Paulo as my final night there. But as I stated, Lagoa was not as good tonight as it was on Friday. When I was leaving (I had an hour at the sauna with this above-mentioned garoto), the gogo dancer show hosted by the drag queen was on and the main room was crowded. However, I saw no other garotos that appealed to me. The only two I saw all Saturday night were the one I had the hour programa with, and the one I had a programa with on the previous night — nothing new or different from either Wednesday or Friday was there. But here’s something again to note about the new Lagoa: The ratio of garotos to clients in the crowd on Saturday was even less than it was on the previous night! My estimate is that there were actually two clients for every garoto! That is completely unacceptable. I know I am not alone in this line of thinking, but I go to payboy saunas to see, mix and mingle with physically stunning, sexually virile and available garotos. I do NOT go to payboy saunas to see mostly pasty, flabby, balding, bellied, hairy-backed, naked old white dudes! If I wanted just to socialize and chuckle it up with a bunch of hairy bears with no to little availability of hot physical specimen, then there are plenty of gay bars for that and also saunas, bathhouses and sex clubs where men like that are readily available (to each other) for FREE! No, we go to pay saunas for the availability of men that otherwise may not be easily attainable— and to have plenty of choices of them. Two clients for every garoto? GTFOH with that bullshit! There should be a minimum of three garotos per client.

I twice took an Air Canada flight to São Paulo that connected in Toronto. The appeal was the price. On the flight to SP, in November, there was a snow storm and all flights were cancelled. I was put up in a hotel for the night and left the same time next day. Others were bitching about the delay (as if they could leave in the middle of a snowstorm), but I was perfectly fine with it because I had 5 1/2 weeks of time left in Brazil. In other words, you’re not the only one whose had delays or cancellations on Air Canada going to Brazil. My record is 50/50.

I could do without the club music and diva torch songs. As talented as she was, I think I have heard enough of Whitney Houston’s Greatest Hits at Point 202 to last me three lifetimes. I prefer the ambience and different vibes that I can get in various rooms and corners at 117 — where the drag and diva music doesn’t follow you everywhere. And if the garotos are the hottest, the sauna always wins.

I wouldn’t call Point 202 the best even in Rio, but it’s running a good second. And IMO, better than the new Lagoa. Junior does deserve his props.

I didn’t have those problems with him.

I didn’t seem to have that problem at all with Gabriel recently. I guess that’s another one of those “your mileage may vary” situations.

Acyr has been involved in three recently failed or failing saunas. No matter the reason, MM has shuttered. Manhattan Rios was a complete bomb. Lions is on life support. You may think he’s a great guy to hang out with, but I would take his advice on a sauna business about as quickly as I’d trust Trump to run a casino.

As I already mentioned above, Centaurus, which is the premier heterosexual sauna (whorehouse) for men in Rio, like it’s gay men counterpart 117 (and what used to be its gay men counterpart Lagoa), is doing gangbusters business and is bursting at the seams. The reason is that Centaurus stays to its brand of exclusivity: the women who work there are beyond beautiful, and are seemingly physically unattainable in both body and face. Men don’t swarm there in droves just to fuck average looking girls — they expect the cream of the crop. The straight “saunas” that are closing shop feature the average girls.

Yes. A simple rule of commerce which seems to have already put all of the twink- / “boy-next-door”- oriented saunas out of business in Brazil!

The comment about being barely legal boys was targeted toward the posters here who have that predilection (what could be a posting majority at the board, but is not necessarily even close to a majority of paying sauna clients) — not the age restriction. Try to keep up.