stevenkesslar

Religious right gets blindsided by angry parents in a Southern California school district This is somewhat encouraging news. It would be nicer if the culture wars just went away. But let's be realistic. If we are going to fight culture wars, I'd rather be winning them. At least in blue states like California, it seems like whoever starts the culture war loses. Try banning LGBTQ curriculum and saying Harvey Milk was a pedophile, and it won't go well. Not even with moderate Republicans, like the one quoted in that article. Not so much because they revere Harvey Milk. They just are sick of culture wars, I bet. Same reason Ron-O-Rama lost 10 % of his approval rating in Florida, and arguably a shot at the Presidency, when he shifted from cleaning up after hurricanes to culture wars. In red states, on the other hand, there is no evidence of life-threatening political backlash against the deluge of laws banning CRT or "gender-affirming care" or talking about Harvey Milk. Meaning the Republican Governors and legislatures who passed those laws got re-elected in 2022 by big margins. But, as I just noted, if the Ron-O-Rama show flops nationally because people aren't clamoring for culture war, that will help The Gays. That area described, Temecula, used to be in the 41st US House District of California I think. When they redistricted I think they moved it so that Temecula is out, and Gayish Palm Springs is in. It matters because Gay lawyer Will Rollins came within a few points of defeating Republican Ken Calvert is that district in 2022, and is up for a rematch in 2024. I could actually see this helping Rollins. His pitch is sort of, "I'm a lawyer who worked with the government to fight terrorists. I just want everyone to have common sense rights." If school board members are pissing parents off by fighting culture wars over Harvey Milk, it probably helps guys like Rollins in blue states.

Sure beats me! 😉 (But seriously satire or not parasites and cancer is serious shit so being a helpful and solid guy you should probably consult with professionals who have an established record of successful pest control and disease prevention.)

Adding extensive quotes that provide additional useful facts and perspective: The first citation is from AIDS United dated December 2021,, and then several quotes from the June 2021 GAO report AIDS United cites to reach its conclusions FOSTA-SESTA and its impact on sex workers And from the GAO report on the implementation and effectiveness of FOSTA: Gosh. Who'd have ever guessed that a law that drove these platforms overseas would make prosecution in the US more difficult? 😉

Appeals court upholds but narrows sex-trafficking statute Activists claimed the Fight Online Sex Trafficking Act violated the First Amendment. I take that to be good news ............ kinda, sorta, maybe? At least it clarifies that the broad and expansive way to interpret the law is NOT what Congress meant. Which was clear, if you read the Congressional Record of the floor debate. Yup, I did. But really? Who does that? Chuck Schumer, among others, was very clear that he didn't want to impair "harm reduction" organizations that work with sex workers, or free speech. This was about going after abusive sex traffickers. That said, it would be better still if they simply decriminalized prostitution. But don't hold your breath. This is a little bit like clarifying after the prisoner has been executed that "punishment" meant a slap on the wrist, not a firing squad. One of the plaintiffs was a massage therapist who says he lost business after Craig's List pulled many categories of ads. Whatever harm was done, for years, is done. The basic goal of FOSTA was to reduce sex trafficking in the US. The Congressional Record of the floor debate included pages and pages of real horror stories of victims, some children, who were sold and abused and even murdered. Has FOSTA helped? From a 2019 FBI report on all human trafficking: From the most recent federal report I could find, dated October 22: One other data base I could find comes from the National Human Trafficking Hotline, which says they have "one of the most extensive data sets on trafficking in the United States." They measure "signals," meaning anything from phone calls to texts to online tips received by the hotline. Here are the number of signals received starting from the year before FOSTA passed: 2017: 36.068 signals 2018: 43,751 signals 2019: 51,921 signals 2020: 56,127 signals 2021: 51,073 signals If anyone has actually followed this closely - I haven't - a more thorough analysis would be welcome. But it seems like a decent one word answer is NO, FOSTA did not help reduce sex trafficking. Incidents reported went up in the year after FOSTA became law on April 11, 2018. That 2022 report's time frame is a decade, during which trafficking has gone way up. The Hot Line reports substantial increases in trafficking signals in each of the two years after FOSTA was passed, although there was a definite decline in 2021. I'm guessing COVID was somehow a factor, for good or bad. If FOSTA helped identify and prosecute and ultimately reduce sex trafficking, that would be significant. But the argument against it was that at best it would be a game of Whack A Whore with lots of collateral damage. At worst it would make trafficking harder to identify and prosecute by driving it further into the dark. If the goal in 2018 was to substantially reduce US sex trafficking, that simply has not happened.

Linguist, read thyself. You are truly funny. Correct or not, I'm just reading this as satire now. It's just too over the top.

You're a hoot. This is so over the top I have to wonder. Is this actually some weird form of satire? Like let's see just how over the top we can be? It's quite imaginative. You seem to be saying I lie, and distort, and pivot, so I'm going to rebut that. In fairness to you, the first mention of "Israel" was on the second page of the thread, by another poster. The second was by you, when you stated Israelis always provide hospital care to hateful Muslims who still hate them. That invited comment both about your prejudices, and about Israel's treatment of Palestinians. Don't blame me for your pivots, or your prejudices. In terms of lies, other than using the word, you haven't identified any actual lies anyone told. Knock yourself out. Although we have actually beaten this to death. You've stated Muslims are "vandals, looters, and arsonists." Which given the circumstances sounds factually correct, assuming you mean some particular rioters. You then called all Muslims "savages" six times. Which sounds very distorted and very prejudiced. And also obviously untruthful. And you called Muslims "ungrateful vermin" once. Definitely distorted, and extremely prejudiced. Also a lie in that Muslims are clearly human, not insects. But if Goebbels were here, he'd be pleased with your creativity. It was his favorite way of demeaning Jews, and rationalizing the need for their extermination. You then helpfully advised us that anyone who disagrees with you, which is to say almost everyone, is "unable to engage in a dialogue without debasing yourself." True or false, that's actually very funny. I like talking about my balls. Clients actually wrote about them in several of my escort reviews. "Low hangers" usually. I suppose I should be concerned, in that they'd be easier to chop off. But I don't recall any Muslim I had sex with every trying that. Or even biting them while in their mouth, actually. But now I'm debasing myself. Anyway, if you don't like pivots, perhaps it's best not to change the subject to how Muslims treat my testicles. 😉

Nice try, buddy. I guess that means you don't really have a factual or logical response. And I certainly don't expect you to say, "Yes, my statements ooze raw and blind prejudice." Just dismiss it all as propaganda. It's so 2023. Then again, it's so 2016, 2017, 2018, 2019, 2020, 2021, and 2022, too. Proving my point, I'd argue. It is always easier to incite prejudice and hate than it is to incite peace. I don't think you need a newspaper to know that, though. Since you are modeling introspection, I should try to be a little bit more fair and balanced. Team Trump did get to the bottom of what's going on with Islam and hate. It only cost the Saudis a $2 billion investment in Jared. No crime family or corruption there, though. Maybe just repentance for the evil of Islam, from the country that brought us 9/11. And, in fairness, Trump has now found stuff that is far worse than Islam. The FBI. And the rule of law. So we're making progress.

I'll give you this. You sure ought to be good at recognizing tropes. Because you are very good at writing tropes that are based on raw and blind prejudice. As a clear point of fact, you were the one that went (arguably) off topic and shifted it to Muslims in Israel. This is the one thing I did not particularly care for over at Company Of Men. Cooper likes to stay on the main highway. And I like to go down interesting side roads. So in a thread that starts with a prejudicial rant about Muslims in France, he might not like shifting to even more prejudicial and one-sided rants about how Israelis are the very milk of human kindness. And Muslims return that favor by hating them. To me, it's basically on topic. Same prejudice, different country. If your job is to help out @Olddaddy, you're actually doing a great job. He is at least being honest. He bases his views on his personal experiences. Which sound very limited and superficial. You sound like you're just repeating some rant you read in some hate rag or saw in a film. You also have an affection for precision in language, compared to perceived childish insults and GIFs. Fair enough. So that line could have been lifted directly from The Wandering Jew, a big Goebbels hit. With a few alterations in nouns and adjectives, of course. Whether you realize it or not. Perhaps we should be more adult about this, and go with the same ideas in the original language. Original anti-Semitic version: Jüdische Horden toben durch Deutschland und zerstören alles Anti-Muslim version: Muslimische Horden toben durch Frankreich und zerstören alles Call me biased. But I think it has a certain ring to it. Same shit, different century. Speaking of which: The Muslims of Auschwitz: tales of tragedy and heroism 75 years on Academics estimate more than 1,000 Muslims could have been imprisoned by the Nazis in the Second World War Again, arguably off topic. Because of when the history was written, it makes sense that public perceptions of The Holocaust focus on Jewish extermination. Nobody much talked about The Gays. And Hitler was smart enough to not specifically target all Muslims. But Muslims were more than a drop in the gas chambers, as well. And they were a big part of the anti-Hitler military bloodbath: Hmmm. Maybe Muslims rampaging through Europe and North Africa ain't such a bad thing, after all.

We obviously have two sides that are speaking past each other here. But to go with the idea of balance, I'll flip and say this. Because I think it does speak to the point that it is so much easier to incite hate and violence than it is to incite peace. Unfortunately. There was a period about a quarter century ago when if you gave me a gun and said I could kill any world leader and get away with it, I would have taken the gun and killed Arafat. And implicit in that is the idea that someone better would have replaced him. The key parts of my equation go like this. You had Clinton. You had the last Labor PM of Israel. And you had Arafat. I'd argue 2 of the 3 wanted a peace deal. There were these moments that conservatives I like reading, like George Will, would argue were just embarrassing. Like Madeline Albright running after Arafat as he storms out of a meeting in Paris. Fair point. Arafat's argument, or implication, was that Palestinians would not have supported the peace deal actually on offer. And maybe some Palestinian nut would have killed him, like some Israel right-wing nut had already killed Rabin on God's orders. The polls available from that period strongly suggest that it was the other way around. A majority of Palestinians wanted a peace deal. Probably because they knew things sucked. Israeli Jews were ambivalent. It's been years since I read those polls, so I'll say maybe that's more theory than fact. But we know for a fact that in 1999 Barak won. And Israelis seemed willing to give peace a chance. By 2001 the moment had passed. Barak looked impotent, Sharon came to power, and it's just been cycles of violence and more violence and deepening trenches and more walls ever since. Bill Clinton himself has also argued that it's the demography, stupid. It's the immigrants to Israel coming not from liberal democracies in Europe but from places where the prejudices against Muslims run much deeper. And democracy is not as well rooted. As you said, it's complex. But I think there was a moment when peace could have worked around that period. And Arafat killed it, in my view. Turns out it didn't work out particularly well for him. As an organizer who knows how hard it is for the have nots to win, I will always feel he fucked his people by not taking the deal he could have had. Whatever the arguments against it were, that deal was better than what we have today. But my main point in the context of Paris burning, or airstrikes in Jenin, is that it really is so much easier to incite hate and violence than it is to incite peace. And this is a great example of how people expressing undeniably prejudiced and contemptuous views about entire groups of people think God, or at least facts and logic, are obviously on their side.

It would be nice if it mostly worked that way. Let people who take extreme views give each other medals. No harm done. Hell, I'd be more generous. Why not give Jared $1 billion in return for policy favors while spreading completely undocumented "facts" about all the bribes senile Joe has managed to cleverly hide. Really no harm done. Even good for a laugh. The problem with this kind of simplistic sheer distortion and hate is that it ends up in metal, not medals. In Rabin's case, all it took was metal in the lung, I think. But Yigal Amir was a textbook example of how the hate and bile works. God told him to kill the Jewish leader of Israel. So he did. No regrets. Had to be done, because you know what Rabin was gonna do with The Muslims. Ugh! The Israeli Jewish artist who drew that mural put it extremely well: Same thing at work right now as we type in both Israel and France. Ugh! It's bile and hate and it ends in bullets and death every single time.

I should congratulate you. I'm a low tech guy. I'm not big on virtual reality goggles. The idea of AI scares the shit out of me. You're demonstrating we can save the money and research. Since we don't need high tech to live in our own virtual and distorted realities. Congratulations. Enjoy the world of contempt you live in. But the conflict in Israel and Palestine is definitely another great example where the hatred and prejudice and contempt for facts, in that case, apartheid runs extremely deep. That said, I have a personal bias about American Jews that is relevant to this discussion. I love them. As an organizer I have worked with so many American Jews who were deeply motivated by social justice that you just can't miss it. It started with my Poli Sci professor, Paul Wellstone, who pretty much inspired my decision to spend decades as a community organizer. His Senate opponent, Rudy Boschwitz, also a Jew, literally attacked him for being a "bad" Jew. While he may not have been the most observant Jew, anyone who knew and loved Paul knew his religion was at the core of his beliefs about social justice. It just reinforces the point that getting to know people is such an antidote to the hate and prejudice being expressed here. Americans Jews are willing to be clear minded about this hate and prejudice and venom and bile. 34 % call Israeli's treatment of Palestinians "racism," 25 % call it "apartheid," and 22 % call it "genocide." As well, 1 in 4 Israeli Jews use the word "apartheid" to describe how Palestinians are treated. While most Israeli Jews don't go that far, that poll seems typical in illustrating that it is a minority filled with the bile and prejudice that believe in ideas that are easy to call apartheid. While 41 % of Israeli Jews in that poll are willing to take Palestinian's rights away, which is at the core of the conflict, 43 % oppose the idea. As we are seeing right now, that condemns both sides to more hate, more death, more violence. In France, we are seeing that it only takes a small minority of haters and bigots throwing around words like "savages" to fuel violence. Blessed are the peace makers. When you embrace the idea of condemning a whole race or religion - "The Muslims still hate them," in your words - it really does put you in bed with assholes like Goebbels. I never understand why people who want to be perceived as just want to play out of Goebbel's bag of tricks. But Goebbels of course thought he was fighting a just cause, too. Your remedies may not be as extreme. But it is driven by exactly the same prejudice and bile. Ugh! It is so ugly, and leads to so much death. Ugh!

Good for you. Glad you made the best of it! Can we have a long talk about prejudice, deep canvassing, and deep cock sucking? The number of assumptions you are making about people you are admitting you don't know is amazing. I'm referring specifically to @Phoenixblue. But also generally to all Muslims, aka "The Savages." Or, The Gay Haters, if you prefer. @Phoenixblue beat me to the punch. But it is worth nothing that Christina Pushaw stood up for her little bitch Ron D on the issue of homophobia. The Log Cabin Republicans said Ron's recent homophobic ad was ............ well ............ homophobic. Christina stood up for her little pouty bitch and said Gay Pride is "unnecessary, divisive, and pandering." One could therefore assume all White conservatives are bigots who hate The Gays. And feel The Gays just create unnecessary misery wherever they go. But thank you for a helpful idea. Once our Top Homophobic Guv completes discrediting himself, and neither the voters of the US nor the voters of Florida will have him anymore, we can send Ron off to Sydney. And all will be well. You can have Pushaw, too. She loves to make assumptions. In fairness, this is actually a struggle The Gays in the US are grappling with. It is easy enough to assume that any White conservative who votes for Ron, or supports Don't Say Gay, or votes against same sex marriage, is a bigot who hates The Gays. Not true. At the risk of sounding repetitive and moralizing - which we all know I am - I will repost the hyperlink of Dave Fleischer I posted in another thread. About what he calls deep canvassing. What we know, for a fact, is that one excellent way to break down prejudice is to speak with the people you feel prejudice toward. Or who feel prejudice toward you. That is how we won same-sex marriage in the US. People in Ireland, including their current PM, literally walked door to door and spoke with the people who may have had prejudiced ideas about The Gays. That is precisely why they have same sex marriage today. As well as a Gay PM. Try it. Of course, you probably should not be starting conversations with rude people who yell "fucking COCKSUCKER" at you. That said, if we're being blunt, I can tell you from actual personal experience that sucking a Muslim cock, or fucking a hot Muslim guy, is an effective way to break down prejudices. Try it. Almost by definition, if you are sucking a Muslim cock, the guy it is attached to does not hate The Gays. In all honesty, though, whether as an escort or fuck buddy or what not, I did not suck Muslim cocks to increase diversity. Or to advance some liberal agenda. I did it to have fun, and to cum. Try it. After all, you clearly are a cock sucker. Now I will make an assumption. Which is that for a guy like you sucking a Muslim cock may be a bridge too far. So since you like anecdotes, and being outdoors, I'll scale this back. I grew up in an overwhelmingly White suburb of Chicago. The first time I actually lived in the city was during a college "urban studies" program. The first day I arrived at my apartment my two White roommates and I went on a very long walk for miles to see Chicago neighborhoods. At one point a Black woman stopped us, and asked us if we knew where we were. We said "no." But by that point we were looking for an "el" rapid transit stop to get home. She said turn around, walk the other way, turn left or right at the corner, and in three or four blocks you'll see an "el" station. What we later figured out is that we were right about to walk into the middle of Cabrini Green, a notoriously unsafe and predominantly minority public housing project. For some reason, some Black woman felt like she wanted to protect us. Bless her heart. I've had multiple experiences like that in Chicago, all in Black neighborhoods. I was never attacked, or robbed. But several times friendly Black strangers approached me to make sure that, as the only White guy around, I knew where I was and I knew what I was doing. The only time I have been physically assaulted by a stranger was while I was a volunteer campaigning for Harold Washington, Chicago's first Black Mayor. I was at an "el" step in a White neighborhood handing out flyers for Harold. Some White guy shoved me and knocked the flyers out of my hand. The more memorable moment, which happened at the same place, was the kind looking White woman who walked up to me and whispered in my ear, "You are a traitor to your race." Not sure what exactly I did wrong. I know for sure I had not actually sucked a Black cock yet. That came later. 😉 This is of course the same Chicago where record numbers of murders happened in 2020, while Trump was President and America went on a gun buying spree. Overwhelmingly, the victims were Black men between 18 and 45. Just out of curiosity, I checked. There were 695 homicides in Chicago in 2022, which is the lowest of the three years since COVID started. So far in 2023 they are down another 10 % or so. By comparison, there were 377 homicides in all of Australia last year. I would suggest that is probably not about The Blacks, or The Muslims. It's probably about the far more sensible gun control laws in Australia. At least, that's what the Black former cop Mayor of New York says. While the homicide rate in New York is way lower than Chicago, he says the huge challenge there now is the "rivers" of illegal guns flowing through gangs into low-income neighborhoods. I know I've taken a trip around the world. But so have you. We're talking about violence in Paris. And your attitudes about Muslims in Australia. And the prejudices that these outcries - like "savages" - are built on. No one is defending rioters, past or present, of any race, in Paris. The relatives of the slain Muslim child are calling for an end to the violence. I hope you go talk to some Muslims. Maybe even suck a Muslim cock or two. You sound like you're good at it. So you at least don't have to worry about those Muslims hating you for doing it. Have fun.

Great. So does Macron. Are you saying you agree with him, as he speaks for his nation? And their solidarity with the Muslim victim's family? Empathy doesn't seem very radical to me.

As a clarification, you're specifically referring to Bragg's indictment, right? It is a criminal indictment, correct? If so, could it even be changed at this point? Or are you saying it would have made more sense for Bragg to go the civil route, since there is a lower standard of proof? I'm assuming Smith's indictment, as well as any future indictment from him or Fanni Willis, has to be criminal. Correct? Lying to the FBI about nuclear secrets, starting riots at The Capitol based on lies, and trying to get Georgia officials to steal an election are all big deals. They should overshadow Bragg, If convicted, the issues of pardons and slammer time are separate issues to consider then. While I'm at 20 questions, John Bolton suggested in some interview that "the Feds" should lean on Bragg to give the federal case precedence. I like that idea, if I understood him correctly. But what does that even mean? I think the political and legal strategies mirror each other. By political I mean the Never Trump Republican strategy, like Chris Christie. And I would not make a bet at this point. My view is the more nails used, the more likely Trump's coffin can finally be nailed shut. Or, death by 1,000 cuts. Some are sharp daggers (Smith). Some are plastic knives (Bragg). The flip side is that Trump has proven time and again that that which does not kill us makes us stronger. Like I said, I wouldn't bet. If I had to bet, and got to phone a friend, my question would not be legal. It would be: will there be a recession in 2024? Bragg's indictment will look very different to history depending on whether Trump wins or loses the Presidency.

Come to think of it, maybe that's why I actually have fun by reading long essays and - ugh! - polls. It's safer. But if you find humor value in poking the bear, go ahead and have fun. Just be careful out there. There's some real hate going around these days. And not to ruin the fun or anything. But if it were me, I'd still want some bad ass like Idris Elba along for the ride. 😉

Now there's a thought. Let's have more of that. FACTS. Here's four that matter: Fact 1: Fact 2: Fact 3: Fact 4, just to add a bit of color, and historical perspective: Blessed be the peace makers. By the way, anybody know where Dietrich von Choltitz is these days? We need somebody with a calm head in a situation like this.

Sorry. Late to this discussion. And I won't write a book. But I am confused. Which century are we talking about? Anyhoo, been to Paris and Berlin and Venice and what not, and found all those Europeans very welcoming and civilized. Except for the part where they tried to eradicate The Jews and The Gays, of course. But, hey. Everybody has a bad decade now and then. 😊

From your keyboard to Secretary Pete's lips, @Pete1111. I get the tone of frustration in the comments above. Which is what I feel, too. But I go back to the fact that we have very talented leaders - from POTUS to Veep to Transportation Secretary. So we should let them lead. If Republicans are smart, they'll do the same thing. Speaking of which: I posted Chris Christie because I think Dana Bash set up a great, thoughtful point/counterpoint. I would be happy if the 2024 fall POTUS campaign were between Secretary Pete and Governor Christie. They are both among the most articulate spokespeople and competent leaders of their party. Even if Christie won, I'd much rather have him than either Lying Don or Ron-O-Rama. On the point about the LGBTQ SCOTUS ruling, I agree with almost everything both guys said. More important, I'd argue they agree with each other. Christie is right that the ruling is about, to use my word, tolerance. It's not saying you can put "No Gays Allowed" signs on the doors of Christian bakeries, or churches. If somebody does that, Christie is right. They'll be sued by same Gay lawyer. Pete is right that The Gays are not stampeding to Christian bakeries (or Christian bathhouses 😯) to get what they need. It is a manufactured issue to chip away at The Gays' rights to score political points. Christie basically says the same thing. If we want to talk about kids, why aren't we talking about child poverty and hunger? Why aren't we talking about test scores? What about fentanyl? Here's why I'm confident. Joe and Pete, among others, proved in 2020 you can be a compassionate liberal and win. One is POTUS, and one is Transportation Secretary. My strong guess is Christie will prove that what was true in 2016 and 2020 is still true in 2024. You can't be a compassionate conservative and win. MAGA don't want to talk about whether and how child tax credits will cut Latino poverty in half. Which they did, for part of Biden's Presidency. Even though we Republicans love the Blacks and Browns just as much as we love The Gays. What we really want to talk about is how socialist deranged teachers are forcing our children to have their penises cut off by Disney and Socialized Medicine!!!! That's how you win Republican primaries these days. Sorry, Chris! But thanks for at least trying to be the kamikaze dude who takes Trump out. It might work. Good luck, and God bless. The reason I think Christie and Buttigieg agree is that both are saying, "Don't take the bait." Pete's argument is that this is all a distraction from the economic issues that people care about. He's right. I think that's what's behind those Florida polls above. People in Florida like Ron when he cleans up after a hurricane and makes unemployment low and the economy grow. They don't want culture war and abortion bans and more guns. Pete's giving people in the middle who feel that way a reason to vote Democratic. Christie is giving them reasons to vote Republican. But there is no evidence that's what the "Don or Ron?" MAGA Party wants to do. Again, good luck, Chris. Pete's biggest problem, which he can't say, is that inflation has been killing Biden. If inflation goes away - which it is - and is replaced by a recession, that won't help, either. So the big gamble is that by November 2024 Bidenomics will mean a growing economy, a rising stock market, low unemployment, and new factories and bridges - right here in Kansas in my own back yard! - as far as the eye can see. I think Pete is right. Talking about Christian bakeries is a distraction. So then we should not talk about Christian bakeries. It's the economy, stupid! Let's talk about insulin prices and child tax credits. And building chip factories in Arizona and bridges in Pennsylvania.

I'll take the bait, and use it to make a point actually relevant to this thread. In other threads you at least make a pretense to address the subject of the thread, before you get to the put downs. I don't think you've said one word about your view of the SCOTUS ruling. Other than, perhaps, the word "polls." Which you basically used to trash me because I care about what swing voters think. I'm a zealot about organizing. Most people are not into it, which is fine. Organizing relies on a fairly small percentage of followers and an even smaller percentage of leaders. I like people. So I like organizing. I like trying to persuade people. The LGBTQ community, thanks precisely to heroes like Thalia and Dave above, changed America and changed the world when it comes to perceptions about The Gays. I'm extremely proud of us. I don't need to whine to a shrink about it. Are you saying you feel like Rodney, and you need a shrink? We are happy to listen to your problems, my friend. Like how, in Florida, your team keeps losing. And your Governor sucks. And you have nothing good to say about him. And how the Democrats have abandoned you. And how Florida is now Homophobia Central. These are all problems we solved in California long ago. Our Guv was on the forefront of pushing the legal barriers on same sex marriage. If I get my way, in two years my US Rep will be a Gay legal eagle who took out the dean of California's diminishing conservative House caucus. But you think your bumper stickers are efficient, and correct. And whatever I say is the stupidest thing you've ever heard. See a pattern? Now here's the part actually relevant to this thread. And, I know. Ugh! Polls! NEW: Polling from Progress Florida & Florida Watch Shows Floridians Unhappy with Direction of State Seems like the culture war is losing! Just to be clear, that is a poll of how Florida voters feel about their Guv after he spent 2023 pushing through a culture war agenda in Florida. Not only is culture war Ron-O-Rama flopping in the Republican Party, and the nation. He's flopping in his own state. Poor thing! Maybe Ron's the one who needs a shrink. I know I've drawn fire from my fellow poster Rodney when I have said positive things about Ron in the past. I stand by what I said. In that past poll, earlier this year, he had 60 % approval in Florida. This poll last Spring showed him at 53 % approval, but 63 % approval when it came to managing the hurricane response. Past polls also show he had net positive approval on the Florida economy. They have one of the lowest unemployment rates in America, which has the lowest unemployment rate in about 50 years. Thanks, Joe! So what seemed clear six months ago was this guy was perceived as a competent Guv with conservative values, who was popular with Independents and even many Democrats. Not because of culture war Ron-O-Rama, but because he was seen as competent. I guess the theory was that "compassionate conservative" is just so 2000. "Culture war conservative" is the latest thing. And it does seem like Tim Scott and Nikki Haley, who are sort of the "kumbaya" wing of the GOP, ain't getting nowhere. The sad thing is Tim and Nikki, who tend to be the people who take down Confederate flags and talk the language of compromise and tolerance, are shifting their language to being more strident. They are running for POTUS as Republicans, after all. That's sad. So I guess it makes sense that Ron thought he'd out-hate Trump. But it ain't working. As Rodney would say, it's a bumper sticker that is so obvious it doesn't even need to be said. Why not go for the real thing? But Ron gambled on the idea that "culture war" was the winning ticket. And he ain't winning. And he is losing the cred he built in his own state by appearing to be a competent Governor who had reasonable conservative values. Again, being the contrarian who is infatuated with polls, I will note that after he signed Don't Say Gay, Ron's popularity in Florida went up slightly last year. My guess is Don't Say Gay didn't really move the needle either way. The polls say pretty clearly that people in the middle are very skittish about teaching anything about sex in school, at least before high school. But if you read this recent poll a majority of Floridians are against Ron's very restrictive abortion ban. And they are wildly against Ron's "Guns' R Us" policies and laws. If Democrats want to play culture war, they should be proud of the fact that they opened the door for same sex marriage - which most Americans support - but then go on and on and on about abortion and guns. There! That's today's political therapy session from Steven Kesslar. No charge, Rodney. After all, you're a friend. 😉

Sorry to be a picky bitch. And I know I'm hogging bandwidth. But the issue is really every 2 years. And especially on SCOTUS, the issue is Democratic turnout in midterms. Democrats went into 2010 with 57 Senate seats. We lost six, but still had a majority. In 2012 we actually won two back, for a bigger majority. Then in 2014 we lost 9. In both cases, but especially 2010, that had a lot to do with crappy Democratic turnout. On this issue, in an alternative America where Republican and Democratic turnout were simply equal, two things would not have happened. First, Republicans would not have had the votes to block Garland. Second, if we assume Trump would have won anyway, Democrats would have had the votes to wait to replace RBG. So instead of having a 6/3 minority, Democrats would have had a 5/4 majority. It was the midterms that done it. This is one advantage of Democrats doing well with the moderate suburban Moms, relative to a decade ago. They are more reliable voters in midterms. So we want them on our side. I'll repeat that on two of the three big issues that just came down - affirmative action, and conservatives denying services to The Gays by arguing it conflicts with their religious beliefs - the bigot wing of SCOTUS knows they have a majority on their side, I suspect. So they are helpfully setting up some culture war fights in 2024 that they think they can win. Student loans is interesting. Especially when you frame the question around what Biden actually proposed - relief of $10,000 to $20,000 targeted to working class people who are not rich and mostly don't have rich parents - most people are for it. So I'd bet money that fight will help Biden with young voters in 2024. There are some tough decisions that need to be made, I think. The Senate really is the core of it. If we can't win in North Dakota or Indiana or Missouri (three states Democrats lost Senate seats in in 2018), the best we can hope for is this stalemate and gridlock. Which could last for a long time. (Note to self: we did win a Congressional vote on same sex marriage during the stalemate, so it ain't all bad.) Those three states are not known as hotbeds of LGBTQ activism. Or even of Gay Pride parades. They are probably places where Republicans can do well by arguing that some nice Christian bakery on Main Street is going to be forced to bake some pink wedding cake for Pete and Chasten. Who, by the way, read the tea leaves and moved to Michigan. Where Pete no doubt has a more promising political future. If The Gays want to keep winning, we're going to have to figure out these states that used to elect "working class" Democrats, but now are Ground Zero for Ron-O-Rama culture wars. Thankfully, we have great leaders who know how to do that.

I didn't say I'm not worried. I am. Especially about Trump winning in 2024, if we have a recession. I said I think this SCOTUS ruling is "mostly good news" for the Gays. I stand by that. Clarence Thomas, and his fact-hating wife, are two very good reasons to be devoted to Our Mother Of Perpetual Worry. The ruling I feel far worse about is the affirmative action ruling. Not requiring a bigot to bake my wedding cake won't stop me from getting married. You made the same good point, @Pete1111. Let the bigots lose my business. I used to be a Catholic. They lost my loyalty over this fight. But ending affirmative action will literally close college doors to minorities, including some groups of Asian American minorities. By the way, most polls suggest that a majority of Americans support ending affirmative action in college admission, too. There's no question that, writ large, SCOTUS is now the voice of the reactionary right wing. And we should be worried. Because they are trying to push the nation to the right. Hopefully, like with gutting abortion in 2022, it will be one reason voters seek balance in 2024 by electing Democrats. But it is definitely time to organize, organize, organize. All that said, they're not taking same sex marriage away. Clarence Thomas, the hypocrite, for sure would if he could. He can't. There's a quote I absolutely love, from Jeb Bush, stated around when we won the SCOTUS war: "It’s thousands of years of culture and history is just being changed at warp speed. It’s hard to fathom why it is this way,” Jeb Bush said. He's right. He doesn't get it. Clarence Thomas still doesn't get it. But I love that quote. I feel like, "I did that. We did that. My friends, like Thalia, did that." It was not the battle of the year, or even of our lifetimes. It was the battle of the millennium, or civilization, as Jeb said. And we won. And we won without buying guns and firing bullets. We won by opening our hearts. That doesn't mean it could not be taken away, if we stop organizing. But it does mean we know how to win an incredibly tough fight. We should be, and are, proud of who we are. I wanted to start a debate about the SCOTUS ruling. I think the polls are correct, and useful. They make it clear there is some balance, which we should seek to understand. On the one hand, the polls suggest most people don't want to treat to The Gays unfairly. If the Gays want to fall in love and spend their life with their partner, they should be able to, just like The Straights. A majority of every demo now support that, including Blacks - who some people incorrectly blamed the Prop 8 defeat in 2008 on. Even Republicans are now 50/50 on the question of same sex marriage. Independents and Democrats are wildly in favor of it. But, on the other hand, I think a majority react against the idea that people (conservatives) are going to be forced to do things that go against their personal and religious beliefs. At core, it's the same thing as The Princess Ad. Fear mongering that The Gays are going to impose their values - dangerous values - on our kids, or on us. DeSantis has the public on his side on most of his anti-LGBTQ crap in Florida. I would bet money they poll tested Don't Say Gay and they crafted it specifically to put Ron on the side of a fight he knew he could win. Both in terms of knowing he had the votes in a Ron-O-Rama Republican state legislature, and in terms of saying things most people actually agree with. To prevent @Mavica from trashing me for caring about what moderates think, again, I won't post lots of polls. But even Democrats with kids are worried about this stuff being taught in elementary schools. So Ron read the polls and focused on that. Pretty much the same thing that happened in California in 2008. Dave Fleischer, one of our national LGBTQ organizing gems, spent a few years dissecting polls and focus groups on that disheartening loss. It was white Democrats, largely in the Bay Area, that shifted in the final weeks of the infamous same sex marriage campaign. The fear mongering was most effective in flipping the votes of parents who were worried about their kids somehow being indoctrinated. Unfortunately, Florida is now Homophobia Central in the US political debate. Tim Gill and the Gay mafia, who helped turn states like Colorado around, need to send in friendly warriors like Thalia and Dave and focus on Florida for a decade or two. And, if they are going to be effective, they need to start by listening. I'll wind my rant down by posting a point/counterpoint: Ron DeSantis, and Dave Fleischer. I find Dave's video to be really empowering and heartwarming. It is the kind of thing that clearly needs to happen in Florida. I know it worked in California. And, by the way, this stuff IS happening in Florida. Conservatives went nuts registering voters and using Spanish language media and basically flat out fear mongering about The Gays and The Socialists. So face to face messaging and organizing was happening. But on the right, using fear. That's how they turned Miami, a Democratic fortress, around. That said, the polls clearly show that DeSantis won by 60 % because about that percentage of Florida voters saw him as a competent Guv who did a good job on the hurricane and a good job on the economy. I think he is blowing it by running for Culture Warrior In Chief. I mean, how in God's name do you make Donald Trump look like a liberal when it comes to being a bigot? But that is what DeSantis is doing. Ugh! https://twitter.com/DeSantisWarRoom/status/1674899610379116546?s=20 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hmlfnr151rI God bless Dave. I don't need a poll to tell me that if you showed a group of moderate swing voters these two videos, they would be turned off by Ron's almost cruel attack on The Gays. And they would be touched by Dave's message of opening hearts and minds, and tolerance. Since @Mavica made it about me, me, me, I reflected on that. I think the problem for me is that I lived TOO MUCH. I spoke to Dave once, about 25 years ago, when I was interviewing for a job to run a campaign to win a Gay rights ordinance in Miami, which Thalia told me about. I was just coming out, and Gay South Beach and circuit parties were of course a magnet. I could have gotten the job, probably. But I figured taking a hard job so I could party in South Beach was a bad idea. I took a different job that involved spending four years putting together two statewide coalitions in Oregon that demolished Enron's effort to fuck up electricity, like they did in California. We won permanent rate-based streams of funding for renewables and low-income weatherization and energy assistance, which has made Oregon a leader on those issues for decades. Meanwhile, sadly, that Gay rights fight in Miami in 1997 lost when hundreds of Christian conservatives stormed a City Council meeting. Same old, same old. Bless Anita Bryant's heart. I made good choices, in retrospect. But my key decision was in 2000 I gave up a very successful organizing career to be a male escort, which basically involved having lots of fun and sex all over the world. So some of this is I like posting about politics so I get to pretend I made different, and arguably better choices. But I have no regrets. 2008, 2009, and 2010 were fun. Instead of being a paid organizer, I got to be the bestest little Gay volunteer while people like Thalia, the top level consultants, came in and helped us organize. I had a blast. And we eventually won. On the topic of LGBTQ organizing, goods news. Will Rollins, a nice young Gay guy who almost took out a conservative Republican in my California House district in 2022, recently announced he wants a rematch in 2024. So there's a 50/50 chance he could win. It will take about 10,000 votes, and lots of messaging and door knocking. Turns out The Gays are good at that. Game on. 😊

Duh! No shit. Polls suck. Everybody knows that. Except me, I guess. By the way, love that "sad" icon. It's almost like it's not a Steven Kesslar post if @Mavica doesn't trash it. I missed you, buddy. Where ya been? But, yeah. What kind of loser would fixate on polls and shit? You clearly understand it makes little sense to care about anybody's opinion other than your own, @Mavica. And most things worth saying can truly be said in a brief one sentence put down. But I give you credit. You said in a different post you actually listened to Brian Tyler Cohen for four minutes. That's a long time for a guy who mostly posts in bumper stickers. Sadly, truth be told, there are other losers like me. Like my friend Thalia. So I'll tell you a verbose story relevant to this thread, and my point. She worked for Basic Rights and Marriage Equality for years. And she's the kind of loser that NOT ONLY pays attention to lots of polls. She'd actually do these focus groups and shit. Like, really? How strange! How sad! What could you actually learn listening to like six fucking people? Why fixate on that shit? Live a little! Anyhoo, long story short, because she's been at the center of the Gay mafia for a very long time, they did seemingly crack the code. What they learned through lots of polls and focus groups (WTF? focus groups? such bullshit!) and years of trial and error was this. Intellectual appeals to concepts like "fairness" and "basic rights" were not sufficient to move people in the middle on issues like same sex marriage. What they learned is the most successful arguments came from the heart. And often involved referencing people moderates know who are Gay. You might not be for same sex marriage because it is fair that Gays have the same rights as Straight people. But you might be for it because you love your Gay nephew, who has a sweet boyfriend he wants to marry. Stuff like that. There's a flip side, which goes to the subtle difference in those polls I posted above. So if we want to win TODAY, as opposed to in 2015, we might want to care what people think. Which I am fully aware you don't particularly care about, since you know your opinion. Who needs polls? Anyways, the strongest argument our opponents had, which is exactly what killed that key 2008 referendum on same sex marriage in California, was the idea that The Gays want to shove our values down children's throats. If not outright prey on them. Hence, the Princess ad. How do I know this? I get around a lot. I've traveled all over the world and met LGBTQ leaders from all over the world, mostly as an activist volunteer. But the relevant thing to this specific point is for years, as a volunteer, I led volunteer teams who went door to door in California to persuade people to vote for same sex marriage. Here's a good bumper sticker for you: "Values start at home." Or a sentence: "No one wants to take parents' rights to teach their children their values away." I know it will shock you that I am passionately opinionated when it comes to fighting for stuff like same sex marriage. So, I kind of know what I think. And feel. And I have for a long time. But it does turns out other people's opinions matter, and can be changed. Who knew? Certainly not you! How Marriage Equality Supporters Beat The "Princess" Ad I know this is a stretch for you, @Mavica. My sense is you like to hang out in Florida, bitch about how Democrats keep losing, and post bumper sticker size ideas. God bless you. But don't be surprised if you keep losing in Florida. That article is long, detailed, and about -ugh! - polling. The good news is that you can simply watch several 30 second YouTube ads embedded in the article, about The Gays and values. They are from various states where we actually won same sex marriage by using these ads. If you could tolerate four minutes of Brian Tyler Cohen before shutting it off, you'll be fine with a few minutes of how we won statewide campaigns. If I had to identify one moment and one message that turned the tide, and turned lots of losses into lots of victories, this was it. By 2015, when SCOTUS and our excellent legal eagles won The Big One, The Gays - meaning vast armies of volunteers like me - had laid the groundwork by getting a majority of the country on our side. SCOTUS justices actually cited public opinion in explaining what helped turn the legal tide. Funny story about globe trotting Thalia I can't top, even though I have been all over the world. She's so good at this messaging, polling and organizing stuff that they recruited her to Ireland. Months after we won the SCOTUS fight, they won same sex marriage at the ballot in Ireland. Using the messaging and organizing techniques that Thalia taught them had worked in the US. She was my organizing partner in crime for years on several big fights in Oregon and California. So I know the bag of tricks. Interesting story about one of the Gay community leaders she worked with. This guy, Leo, was against same sex marriage when he started his political career on a local Council in 2010. He came out in 2015, around the time she persuaded him to help lead the fight to win same sex marriage. He's now Prime Minister Of Ireland. Who knew people could be persuaded, and change? (Polls say at one point he was the most popular PM in Irish history. But who the fuck follows polls?) So thanks for your advice, @Mavica. I appreciate it. But I do get around, and have all my life. You might try to get out around Florida a bit more. And maybe talk to people, especially moderates, with other opinions. Maybe you can help turn your state's losing streak around.

An interesting example of how this works in practice. And how nuanced it is. Overall, I take this to be mostly good news for The Gays. Supreme Court limits LGBTQ protections in dispute over services for same-sex weddings Every poll I have seen documents that the overturning of Roe V. Wade, and maybe a broader perception that SCOTUS is becoming a foot soldier for the far right, is leading to the highest level of disapproval of SCOTUS since polling started. The Gallup poll that comes from shows that after SCOTUS legalized same sex marriage in June 2015, their standing actually went up. The prior Gallup poll, from Sept. 2014, showed slight disapproval of SCOTUS, 44/48. By July 2015, right after their pro-LGBTQ marriage decision, that flipped to modest approval, 49/44. As the article in my first post notes, even people who call themselves conservative tend to think more liberally than 20 or 40 years ago on some of these really deep issues. That said, here's what survey says about the narrower issue of who wants to, or has to, bake Gay weddings cakes. (Hint: don't ask for one in Chechnya, or maybe even Moscow these days.) I can live with this. If the new reality is that bigots don't have to bake Gay wedding cakes, we'll survive. Hell, I wouldn't even invite them to the wedding. Of course, this does open the door for Gay bakers to say they personally object to baking cakes for Catholic weddings. Since the Catholic Church is a terrorist organization that discriminates against and oppresses Gays. Even though a lot of the Catholic leadership is, ahem, Gay!!! But my reading of that poll is that people mostly want tolerance. This is a great example of how minor changes in words can change polling results. Here's another poll from Pew on the exact same topic, with somewhat different results: My interpretation is that the phrasing in the first poll leans toward the idea, under "freedom of speech," that people shouldn't be forced to do things that conflict with their personal or religious beliefs. A clear majority of Americans, including a substantial minority of Democrats, are with the majority of SCOTUS on that. Politics 101 says Democrats should not be pushing issues that unite Republicans and divide Democrats. The second question puts a bit more stress on the idea that same sex couples should be treated the same as everyone else. That splits the country right down the middle, if it means in practice some bigot has to bake me a cake. I think The Gays won the same sex marriage war in part by pushing the idea of tolerance. When you have a winning hand, you keep playing it.

I never said she looked ugly. If you think she's ugly, that is your opinion. I think a murderous war criminal slaughtering innocent kids is uglier. I think his murderous patron, Murderous Vlad, who he has now betrayed, is uglier. Ugly, ugly, ugly, ugly, ugly. But that's just my opinion. By comparison, Trump is a beautiful angel. He doesn't slaughter kids. He just gets fat playing golf and eating KFC. But who am I to judge? I'm just an ugly old queen. 😉

Great. So you like the way a scary war criminal who slaughters kids look. And you don't like the way a transgender health leader who protects trans kids looks. Can we just agree to disagree on this one?