hank75

Don’t worry we will all be jail with you 😄

You just can’t let it go can you? Because I have lived with a Cambodian boy, who went on multiple visa runs, usually with the express visa fee paid by me; and was shown the passport and visa on his return. I also knew his cousin and many Cambodian friends who overstayed their visas even before border tensions, because they were too busy/lazy/didn’t want to pay the visa fee to make the visa run. One boy had been in Thailand non stop for 3 years without returning to Cambodia because he couldn’t be bothered to renew his visa as he never encountered any problems. They arrive legally at first because they want to open bank accounts, sign rental agreements etc. My guy was a stickler for renewing his visa because I insisted on it and he had me to pay the express visa fee (I don’t recall exactly - was likely 8000) which is more than the other guys without sponsors wanted to pay every 60 days, along with the weeklong trip that meant no earnings. My use of overstaying is specific to Cambodians. You will notice I referred to my current guy as undocumented which is accurate for his case. They aren’t from going home. They are from returning to Thailand by Thai border officials and the Thai embassy in Phnom Penh clamping down on the issuing of 60 days visas (or any visa tiers that the bar boys could easily access). My sense is you have limited or no actual understanding of the Cambodian visa process. This is the final time I am responding and only because you asked a direct question. But I will also say that I appreciate your comments came from a good place to help a forum member safeguard himself.

Nearly all Cambodian money boys entered on legal visas and overstayed when the border conflict became too severe for them to easily return home to renew. I had a Cambodian boy for some time and witnessed his multiple visa runs. He returned home before the border tensions but his cousin and roommates are all currently overstaying and continuing to work in bars. Jimmie has already clarified Cam first entered legally. I won’t make assumptions but from what I’ve been told from various bar workers; this happens when the owner does not pay off the police right from the start to not raid his bar. My guy’s bar in Bangkok pays 70,000 monthly. As I’ve said, whether under table money, or a fine, money still solves the issue and no one yet has been hauled off to jail. I don’t see Jimmie planning to operate a Jomtien bar that chooses not to buy into the local protection racket, so perhaps this debate is best paused here and we can return the topic of how to save Jimmie’s wallet if not his heart ….

As I was typing the above message my regular guy called me on a Line. He was undocumented for part of last year. I asked him if his bar minded if he was undocumented and allowed him to work. His answer was succinct: “They not care I no passport. They care I fat or not fat.” Hope this gave everyone a laugh. Happy Tuesday!

For goodness sakes I wasn’t suggesting Jimmie or any forum members help a boy “evade arrest”. If there is an actual warrant out for arrest then clearly harboring is illegal. My point is simply to stop overdramatizing matters and clutching pearls. Silom is stuffed full of overstayers, even at the bigger bars. These same overstayers have hundreds of customers, Thai and foreign. There have been multiple cases of police checks and an accepted system of payments. I have yet to hear of any boy being flung into prison. Neither have I heard of any farang getting in trouble for engaging an overstaying money boy. If anyone wants to be pedantic about it, prostitution and solicitation are prohibited under Thai law too so let’s just shut down the whole industry while we’re about it. The Prevention And Suppression of Prostitution Act states: Anyone who associates with another person in a prostitution establishment for the purpose of prostitution will be imprisoned for up to 1 month and fined no more than 1,000 THB. Penalties increase after repeated offenses, and deportation and blacklisting from Thailand are also possible. Furthermore, should the solicitation violate other laws and codes, as detailed below, the penalties can accumulate.

I’ve had this arrangement before. The bar permitted it as more boys on stage meant attracting more customers, but they were far from thrilled. My guy asked me every now and then to go into the bar for drinks to demonstrate he was still bringing in income. Naturally this included tips to mamasan and bar manager to keep them happy. He ostensibly took offs to drink with customers at other bars, DJ or GOD, or when invited for karaoke. So he wasn’t entirely off-less. This was of course a slippery slope and descent into the sheer madness of trying to unpick truth from lies. I do believe for what it’s worth he did enter into this arrangement in good faith and tried to maintain his end of the bargain…for a while. I have mixed feelings about this kind of arrangement. It’s the most logical set up as it prevents the boy from getting bored and lets him earn some side income. But the level of trust has to be off the charts and I wouldn’t recommend it for the heartache it can cause when it inevitably fails.

I’m not suggesting Jimmie himself breaks the law. If the boys themselves want to take the risk that’s entirely up to them. I know many who do, and pay coffee money when checked. This is also how they cross the land borders. Not a single boy that I know of has ever been to Bangkok Hilton. Nor a farang for being with an overstaying money boy. It’s not illegal either to simply be in the presence of an overstayer.

During Covid when travel closed I was bored out of my mind, had many business related worries, and formed an online friendship with an ex bar boy who had gotten trapped in his home country, and was struggling to eke out a pittance. His daily calls and messages helped me tide over a difficult period. I sent him around $200-300 each month to keep him afloat. I saw this as him providing similar services just remotely. Helping him also helped me to get out of my own head during lockdown. We didn’t indulge in video sex because he had roommates but I certainly enjoyed the video calls when he had just gotten out of the shower. If you are inclined to send Cam money during the months you are not together (seems like you are) it should only be as a reward for effort and proportionate to the effort he’s putting in. Don’t get carried away just because you’re infatuated and never send him free money.

Please don’t scare @jimmie50. I know several Cambodian overstayers and apart from the usual police shakedown they’re merrily continuing with life as usual. Their landlords have not flushed them out, their rooms (right smack in bar district) don’t get raided, they travel between Bangkok and Pattaya just fine. Nothing some coffee money won’t fix. If he has an ID card or a photo of his passport on his phone, he can be registered as the second guest in a hotel. I travelled to Pattaya in February with my guy who back then had ambiguous visa status and no passport. Zero issues.

I don’t know if this is at all helpful but Nut, the Moonlight model is an actual muay thai instructor which his day job

This is quite simply a brilliant idea that never occured to me. I’ve always admired Rimowa’s sleek design without wanting to pay the associated price tag, all the more since I’ve heard from friends that the newer lines of Rimowa are just as easily damaged as cheaper brands. Do you by any chance remember which shop this was?

Pleas for help are all too common or, if you have been unlucky like me as a newbie, outright demands and manipulation. The true gems are those who never ask. My current guy has never asked me once for money nor to buy him any items that are not absolutely essential. (Most recently, underwear. He was down to two holey pairs and constantly rewashing them in the shower and draping them all over the hotel furniture until I caught on) I strongly suggest you do not start these “emergency money” discussions with him as it opens the door to requests. I would also recommend reconsidering any relationship that came with requests for money before you have established a proper understanding and your 3 months. At this stage you have spent a paltry 7 days together. He has zero right to your money when he is not working as your paid companion. If he maintains contact for several months, keeps you happy, entertained, and loneliness at bay, you could perhaps then consider a tip for this long distance “work”. After your year end trip, you can decide if the relationship has evolved sufficiently for a relaxation of financial terms.

I am still reading through your responses so posting my thoughts as I go along. 3 days for 10,000 is extremely fair, underpaid even (in my book, other members may disagree). 4-5k per day would be more in line for non stop companionship. 25k for a week is spot on, factoring in long term discount. Does this sound contradictory? Not exactly. 3000 for a full day and night feels little considering they could have made 3000 at the bar just for the night shift. However a guaranteed 25k in a week doesn’t come their way often and discounts are de facto, the longer the off. And since it appears you are new to this, please don’t assume it should then be 25k x 4 for a month.

Have you clarified with him where his passport is at? It is only recently after Thai-Cambodian skirmishes that the status for Cambodian guys has become awkward. Prior to that all boys were able to enter Thailand legally with a 30 or 60 day visa in their passport and with this visa they were able to collect Western Union. Many Cambodians boys (at least all that I know) have Thai bank accounts though it was easier for those who started working some years ago, maybe not new arrivals. I have sent money twice to “middlemen”. One to a Cambodian with a Thai bank account who then sent the money on to the boy’s mother in Cambodia. The second time to one who picked up cash in Cambodia. Both times the money arrived safely. I assume there was a small fee. Cam can ask around to locate such middlemen if he doesn’t know one already. Otherwise you can send money to a bar friend of Cam’s which is common. Don’t send large amounts as Cam will have to offer a tip for the help.

Please excuse me if this sounds blunt. In all honesty, this is excessive. I have never heard of paying an off fee for months on end. When I make arrangements to meet boys outside the bar, whether for several days or lengthy durations I have never paid off fee to the bar nor worried about it. I pay the boy, the boy settles the bar in his own way. It is very common for boys to take long leaves of absence or just blissfully vanish then reappear. They are never barred from returning to work. Bars need boys, especially popular boys, to stay in business. Don’t make the mistake of trying to do his job for him. Your job is to pay Cam the agreed stipend. Let him talk to his friends who may have been in similar situations and find the solution. Being able to keep more money for his farm and family will be a great motivator. What is the longest time he has been booked out from the bar before, and how did he handle it? Yes, I’ve taken boys on trips and they did not post pictures on their social media as that would conflict with their “buffalo sick and half dead also my grandmother” stories. The acceptable compromise is for Cam to work out his solution with the bar, and for both of you to occasionally drop by and support the bar by having drinks and tipping mamasan. Appropriate to also pay Cam’s off fee on these occasions. Everyone will be happy.