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Well, folks, I think this thread has run its course. What you didn't know is that williewillie and me collaborated on this project for a week beforehand. Hope you all enjoyed it as much as we did bringing it to you.

For those who now have good reason to want to know more about this shop. I refer you to DivineMadman's excellent massage website. Just scroll down to the shops under the Lumpini heading for a capsule report. https://m4m-massages.com/shop-specifics/

The misfortune is that the easily-identifiable farang (assuming that he does indeed exist) has been exposed to ridicule. I've learned over the years that it's a mistake to underestimate Thais or guys from any of the other SE Asian countries we're attracted to. What they may lack in formal education they compensate with in street smarts we can't come close to appreciating. The surname was not given but the OP makes it easy to ID by the mentioning the bar's name and the age and nationality of the wealthy farang. You'll have to ask williewillie, or his accomplice and longtime--and former--friend, if he indeed exists. Given the popularity of this thread, I think a thread about this guy (let's call him generous farang #2) would make a good topic on its own merits. It could open up the discussion to dwindling virility and the pros and cons of various drugs to maintain an erection if that becomes a matter of concern. I think a lot guys here could weigh in on that one. You paint with a broad brush. As I say above, it's easy to underestimate some of these guys. Although what you say most likely is accurate in describing the circumstances of the majority of bar workers, I believe it's a mistake to think that all fall into this category. ------------------ More than a few claim that whether this thread is true or fantasy doesn't matter. It simply makes for good entertainment as evaluated by the number of views. This isn't the first time this issue has been debated here and certainly won't be the last. So I take this opportunity to say why I think it does indeed matter. Those of us who read the forum regularly want to believe what posters say is true and not fiction. Take, for example, trip reports. They historically garner the greatest readership of any category of posts. They provide information that's instructive as it is titillating. And for those of us half-way or so around the globe from the scene of the action, they remind us why we should return. Meanwhile, they allow us to live vicariously though the adventures of others. Fortunately, for the best trip reporters, we have no reason to doubt the veracity of their posts because we either know them personally or know their reputation for accurately portraying their visits. It's always a pleasure to read them and we eagerly look forward to their TR's (just ask Vinapu who is not shy in reminding trippers to crank out their reports). And here's the crux of my argument for accuracy in posting. Once we begin to adopt a "what does it matter" approach to reading some posts, it likewise diminishes the efforts of those posters who take pride in their accurate reporting. True events described by those who experience them have become very popular in recent years. In the US, public radio and television feature programs like Stories from the Stage and Ted Talks. People willing to share major events if their lives with us have the power to change attitudes and open our minds and hearts. Why would we want to tamper with that? I'm a reader of not just news but I enormously appreciate good fiction that I read almost daily. And fiction can not only entertain but also expand our minds and attitudes. But it's nice--no necessary--to be able to distinguish between fiction and non-fiction if the trust between reader and author is to remain in tact.

....or a player to be named later. GO KC CHIEFS!!!

I remain baffled that not a single individual can verify that anything in this story is true yet so many individuals are prepared to believe it. Half a million dollars, really? You write as if you know this is gospel. No more than williewillie can back up anything that he wrote in the OP. And he adds insult to injury with this gem of logic: "I knew some would want proof..." You're right on that count. You had no problem with putting this tale out there and making it easy to identify the players. But all you have to back it is an unnamed source who took you into his confidence and related this tale. Not exactly an unimpeachable source, either. You admit that this source is no longer on friendly terms with the alleged generous farang. So my question to you: if you knew some would want proof, why did you proceed without it? Was it just too good a hoax to ignore? Other than me, not many I guess. LOL. At least you knew this was true because you were personally witness to it. But you can't say the same in this case. IMO, this whole thing would be, as DivineMadman says, just a guilty pleasure of someone else's misfortune, if not for the fact that anyone who wants to know the identify of the generous farang knows it by now. Even if he still has his half million and the bar guy is still working offs because he never got a sent from the farang. All you had to do, williewillie, was omit the name of the bar and the particulars of the generous farang's identity. Hopefully, you'll never find yourself embarrassed by someone else's lack of judgement. BTW, did you ask the guy who allegedly told you this yarn that you were going to publish it?

Don't disagree that there's relevance to a lesson for all readers here but it could have been made without making it easy to identify the parties supposedly involved. And certainly agree that what we choose to do with our money is of no one else's business. I acknowledge that few of the guys are likely to make their earnings work for them. Many are sending a share home and spending the rest on their life in BKK or Patts. Nevertheless, as you say, there are exceptions and I think we all know a few who use it to finance their education or simply save a bit of it. A small minority of these guys actually realize they can't work the bars indefinitely and manage to plan ahead.

Here's what troubles me about this thread: Until someone comes forward and announces that they have genuine first-hand knowledge that the events portrayed here are indeed factual, everything remains hearsay. The gay farang ex-pat community in Pattaya is not huge, and it becomes smaller as the number of venues where they gather dwindles. Although the OP does not identify the generous farang by name, he identifies the particular bar where the young man works and he describes the generous farang by nationality and age. The OP, however, does acknowledge that he has met the generous man several times. The OP identifies the person who relates the story as a "life-long" friend of the generous man. And contrary to the OP's claim that this life-long friend didn't discuss his generous friend's finances, he goes into specific detail about amounts of cash allegedly given to the young man for various purposes. The life-long friend did "fall out" with his generous friend. Hummmm..... By this time, much of the gay Pattaya community is aware of this yarn and speculation is ripe as to the identities of both the generous man and the bar worker. And a few questions come to mind: Did the life-long friend provide the information with the understanding it would be posted on a gay Thai forum? Did the OP author tell the life-long friend he'd be writing on line about it? Since he says he knows the generous man, why didn't the OP go to him with his concern that he was being taken advantage of? The bottom line in this thread makes unfounded allegations about two individuals who can be identified with minimal effort by those in the Pattaya gay community. There is no evidence whatsoever that anything criminal, immoral or untoward has occurred. Yet two people are subject to embarrassment. I don't believe the OP set out with this outcome in mind. He most likely just wanted to circulate a piece of what appeared to be salacious gossip. And for the life of me I cannot figure out why a bar worker, who has reportedly amassed half-a-million USD from a benefactor, is still doing ST regularly at the Ambiance.

This is about hearsay supposedly gathered at a bar in Pattaya. I wouldn't be inclined to take it to the bank. But regardless of the veracity of the account, I'm sure you can think of other qualities this guy has that are worthy of praise. Given your obvious concern that this farang might be getting fleeced, it would be magnanimous of you to step forward and offered him--and others like him--some free and unsolicited financial advice. However, I suppose it's worth keeping in mind that he's already the millionaire. Maybe he could share some advice with you? Since the lad still seems to be in the vicinity, why not ask him. May be he could benefit from some financial planning advice? The more I consider your post, the more I'm persuaded that you're just the person to help these young men recognize the errors of their ways and get them on the road to financial independence. This Lao guy has already indicated an interest. Then, if you're successful, they wouldn't need to work the bar scene. I'm truly impressed with your good intentions.

Worked for it? Invested sagely? Started a successful business? It's the dream of most Americans--and Thais alike--to achieve financial independence. And if the farang was indeed a millionaire, he's among over 15 million others worldwide who are free to do what they wish with their wealth. In this case, it seems he choose to educate a young man. I can think of a lot less appealing tasks bar guys have been asked to do for a lot less compensation. And, as the OP states, the boy was very popular and could be seen bringing shorttime customers to Ambiance hotel two or three times a night, he clearly demonstrates entrepreneurial resolve in his own right. More power to him: nothing succeeds like success.

Libraries represent one of the very best uses of public funds. They provide services that many residents cannot access or otherwise afford. And they have traditionally been a haven for gay people of all ages.

Actually, I consider Foodland restaurant's coffee pretty good stuff. And when you consider that it comes with egg, meat, toast and juice for a price most of the specialty shops will charge you for just the joe, what's not to like? I'm not a Starbuck's fan except for their "light" roast blend: Veranda. It also comes in Starbuck's instant form ("Via") which I find indistinguishable from the real thing. Before traveling, I pickup up a few packs ($9.95 for a dozen individuals packets) and tote them along. Beats the Nescafe in the room.

From Conde Naste Traveler 11 Best Places For Coffee in Bangkok Bangkok gets a bad rap for its very sweet drinks (I’m looking at you, Thai iced tea), and their coffee drinks are no exception. But that hardly encompasses the city's entire coffee culture; the coffee shop scene in Thailand overall is nothing to scoff at. Whether you like your blends light or medium, pour over or espresso, even the most uppity coffee snobs jonesing for a good cup can find a perfectly brewed blend in the city, whether from a hipster chic spot or mom and pop cafe. Read on for our picks of Bangkok's best coffee shops and cafes, and plan where to get caffeinated while you're in town. https://www.cntraveler.com/gallery/best-places-for-coffee-in-bangkok From Perfect Daily Grind Top 5 Specialty Coffee Shops to Visit in Thailand https://www.perfectdailygrind.com/2015/12/top-5-specialty-coffee-shops-to-visit-in-thailand/ From Fousquare The 15 Best Places for Coffee in Bangkok https://foursquare.com/top-places/bangkok/best-places-coffee

Very true. If a guy takes liberties in the bar, he's destined to disappoint in the room. "If in doubt, walk" is good advice for veterans and newcomers alike.

From South China Morning Post (Jan. 13) Three reasons Thailand is winning on same-sex rights in Asia Success for the gay rights cause in Thailand lies in, as the old Chinese formula goes, the “right time, the right place, the right people” Last month, the Thai government supported a bill that would make Thailand the first Asian jurisdiction to allow same-sex civil partnerships (“Thai government approves same-sex civil unions”, December 25). It is significant progress in the battle for sexual equality in Asia, in contrast to the failed referendum on gay marriage in Taiwan. Success for the gay rights cause in Thailand lies in, as the old Chinese formula goes, 天時地利人和 (tian shi di li ren he), or the “right time, the right place, the right people”. The right time: Asia has become more open-minded with regard to LGBT culture, as evident from increasing media productions featuring sexual minorities. The past few years in Thailand have seen a number of local movies and TV dramas portraying homosexuals and transgender people, which received worldwide exposure through web platforms such as Line TV and YouTube. Never before have sexual minorities received so much attention in the media and popular culture, which makes it the best time for Thailand to advance LGBT rights. The right place: Thailand appears more relaxed about sex and sexual orientation in general. The sex industry, especially sex tourism, thrives in Thailand. Walk down a street in Bangkok and you will probably see a number of transgender entertainers. Their performances are welcomed by not only Thais but also overseas tourists. The atmosphere of openness in Thailand makes it the right place to promote same-sex marriage. The right people: the country is facing political instability, as a result of the military coup and delayed general elections. The junta has been slammed for the political crisis. To stay in power and gain public confidence, it has to show the nation and the world that it has taken steps to promote human rights. The move to back an LBGT rights bill helps the military government promote a positive image and stay in the good books of the sexual minorities. https://www.scmp.com/comment/letters/article/2181660/three-reasons-thailand-winning-same-sex-rights-asia

I have fantasies about pizza delivery guys, room service waiters, and some of those 7-11 workers. Or guys on the train, bus, boat. Or those who set up and tear down the Patpong night market. Or some of guys who work in sidewalk stalls. Or..........

Find it encouraging that government agencies are actively promoting gay tourism. Just hope that they don't lose sight of the fact that some come not only for headline events like the White Party, but many of us for the bars, massage shops and go-go's that have been the meat and potato venues bringing gay dollars to Thailand for decades. I appreciate the place the big events play in the greater scheme and acknowledge the role of apps in the evolving gay scene. Nevertheless I remain hopeful that there will continue to be a place--and a demand--for brick and mortar venues that will be displaced as commercial development moves ahead. Excerpts from The Nation (Jan. 12) While marriage equality is yet to clear the legislative thicket, advocates are encouraged by the country's efforts to woo more LGBTQ tourists The Life Partnership Bill still has a long bureaucratic path ahead and an election and post-election uncertainty to endure before it could become law. But its recent approval in the Cabinet was an important initial step in making Thailand the first country in Southeast Asia to legally recognise same-sex civil partnerships. Brightening prospects further for Thailand’s sizeable LGBTQ community is the government’s interest in pursuing “pink dollars” – revenue derived from tourism programmes that appeal to LGBT travellers. With a social climate widely seen as tolerant towards non-heterosexual orientations, Thailand has been called a haven for the gay and transgender lifestyle. The authorities are increasingly seeking to capitalise on that global reputation by encouraging more visits by foreign LGBT tourists, as well as the rights activists and artists who support the community. “LGBTQ are seen as a high-potential market with an above-average level of disposable income,” TAT deputy governor Srisuda Wanapinyosak told The Nation Weekend. “In tourism terms, they tend to travel more frequently than the demographic average.” In a recent report, LGBT Capital estimated the global LGBT population at 496 million, with 4.5 million LGBT people living in Thailand. Global purchasing power was calculated at US$3.6 trillion and spending on tourism at $5.3 billion. Srisuda said the TAT had begun targeting this segment five years ago, but the market remained niche and hasn’t yet reached its full potential. With the Cabinet’s endorsement of the Life Partnership Bill, though – however troubled its future might be – the marketing is growing more aggressive both domestically and globally. “The key to tapping into the LGBTQ market is to understand the diversity of preferences and respond accordingly,” she said. “It’s also important to welcome LGBT people genuinely and not be superficially ‘LGBT-friendly’.” There are three main components to the TAT drive – events spanning entertainment and lifestyles like the Songkran festival and the Wonderfruit and White Party gatherings; high quality in the destinations, hospitality and cuisine on offer; and legal support from the government. The TAT hosted an LGBTQ symposium in Bangkok in September that drew travel agents from 50 countries. This month Srisuda will lead a road show in Spain. About 20 Thai tour operators will join her at Fitur, an international tourism-trade fair being held in Madrid. “LGBTQ is a game changer for the tourism business in Thailand,” gender academic Thitirat Duangkong told The Nation Weekend. “Gender diversity and equality are goals of the United Nations and other global bodies and are even part of the election platforms for some Thai political parties. So it’s quite relevant to the tourism business,” added the guest lecturer at Thammasat University. “We’re stepping forward ahead off our neighbouring countries like the Philippines and Singapore, so we’re on track.” Tourism and Sport Minister Weerasak Kosurat said a new Bt30-million Digital Tourism Platform introduced by Kasikornbank will further boost the “pink economy”. “LGBT people have purchasing power and also tend to be creative,” he said. “Our new Big Data platform will provide information about all target groups, including LGBTQ. They can easily select destinations, activities and services designed specially for them and book online. “Besides more pink dollars, we want to see more big smiles from the gender-diverse community visiting Thailand.” Complete article available at http://www.nationmultimedia.com/detail/national/30362082

It will be interesting if the reduction in iPhone prices going on in China will spread to the LOS. iPhones have a well-known cachet among SE Asian guys--and no small number of their admirers. From CNBC Retailers are slashing iPhone prices across China as consumers say the phones aren't worth the cost Apple's latest iPhone models are seeing huge discounts from retailers in China. The technology giant recently revised its first quarter sales forecast downward, putting a large part of the blame on a slowdown in the Chinese market. Experts said a mixture of a poor pricing strategy and a lack of exciting features compared to local rivals like Huawei has led to the newest iPhones' weak performance in China. Continues with video and pricing info https://www.cnbc.com/2019/01/11/apple-iphone-retailers-are-slashing-prices-across-china.html

I visited Iconsiam with a friend and was pleasantly surprised by the experience. Found it easier to navigate than Paragon due to the better sight lines afforded by the design. We arrived a little after noon on a Sunday and the food court was jammed. Would recommend a weekday afternoon visit. The boat shuttle is free, fast and pleasant.

From The Hollywood Reporter (Jan. 10) In the aftermath of last's summer's sensational cave rescue in northern Thailand, two phrases tended to pop up in newscasts the world over: "It's a miracle" and "like a movie." The real-life events indeed had the feel of a thriller: a daring international mission to extract 12 young boys and their soccer coach from more than two miles below the earth, with torrential rains and rising floodwaters providing the race against the clock. Naturally, Hollywood was quick to pounce. Within weeks, Universal Pictures revealed that it was developing a big-budget feature about the rescue, while director Jon M. Chu, fresh off Crazy Rich Asians, said he would be developing a competing project for Ivanhoe Pictures to ensure that the Thai story didn't get whitewashed in the West. Pure Flix, a production company known for faith-based films, said it too was seeking rights to the story. By July, Thailand’s Ministry of Culture had established a special committee to oversee the foreign films circling the story, which by then numbered at least six. Since then, just one project has actually gone into production, however — and it hails from much closer to home. In mid-December, Bangkok-based film company DeWarrenne Productions wrapped shooting The Cave, an independently financed Thai feature that recreates the rescue from the perspective of the mission's many unsung heroes. The Cave is written and directed by Thai-Irish producer and filmmaker Tom Waller, known for the Thai films The Last Executioner (2014) and Mindfulness and Murder (2011), both of which were acquired by Netflix. "I felt I was in a unique position to try to make this film, because I'm Thai, but I also have a Western orientation in terms of my background," Waller tells THR by phone from the U.K. "And that matches how this unprecedented rescue came together: It was a Thai emergency, but the whole world tuned in and tried to help." The Cave's executive producers are Desmond O'Neill and Jonah Greenberg, former head of power agency CAA's China office. Greenberg is producing through his newly launched China-based banner Salty Pictures. CAA's media finance group packaged the film. The real rescue effort at Tham Luang cave involved over 10,000 people, including more than 100 divers, dozens of aid workers, some 100 government agencies, hundreds of volunteers and police officers, and more than 2,000 Thai soldiers. Much of The Cave's dialog is in Thai, but also a plethora of other international languages — a decision that was made for the sake of authenticity rather than accessibility. "Every character just speaks the language they would have during the rescue — we have some northern Thai dialect, Chinese, English, pigeon English, and so on," Waller explains. The filmmakers also set several scenes in territories beyond Thailand, such as Ireland, Wales, China, Japan and Hawaii, where they traced the trajectories of the various rescuers who ultimately descended on Southeast Asia to help. "Besides the incredible heroism of the rescue mission itself, what makes this story so special is how people from all over the world came together in a selfless way to save these boys," Waller says. Now in post-production, The Cave is targeting a release date in July on the one-year anniversary of the rescue. Insiders is selling the film in Asia, while Wildbunch handles sales for the rest of the world. Continues with pics https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/news/thai-cave-rescue-indie-film-wraps-1175100

I came across this today on ESPN. It reminds me that of all the bad news that dominate the headlines, news of the 13 footballers never fails to lift my spirits. Can't think of better ambassadors of good will for Thailand. From ESPN (Jan. 5) The Wild Boars football team, whose rescue from the Tham Luang Nang Non cave last year captured the imagination of the world, will be at the Al Nahyan Stadium supporting their country, as special guests of the Asian Football Confederation (AFC). On Saturday, three of them were taken on a guided tour of the stadium and spoke to the press while being shown around. Coach Eakapol 'Ek' Jantawong spoke for his boys, describing the trip as a unique opportunity to cheer for their team. "It's their goal and dream to be professional footballers one day," he said. "Coming here, and being here, they feel that one day they too will be playing for Thailand and playing against the best in Asia." Titan, the shortest of the boys, is a forward and a huge Lionel Messi fan. His coach likes Messi too, as does midfielder Tee. Adul, who likes to play on the right wing, is the only one to idolise Cristiano Ronaldo. Not surprisingly, he's also the only Juventus fan among Barcelona buffs. In the pre-match press conference, India coach Stpehen Constantine had mentioned how Thailand's front four players interchange positions a lot, and the key player is likely to be Japan-based attacking midfielder Songkrasin Chanathip. Titan smiles when asked about his favourite Thai player. "I like all the players, but if I had to pick one, it would be "Jay" Chanathip," he says. And do they think India has a chance of beating their favourite team? There's polite laughter, though most of it is just the joy of having overcome what they did last summer and living their dream by seeing their heroes in action. http://www.espn.com/soccer/afc-asian-cup/story/3743382/thailand-find-unlikely-support-from-cave-boys-ahead-of-afc-asian-cup-opener-vs-india?

From The Nation Asia’s largest LGBTQ exhibition to open in Bangkok later this year In keeping with the Kingdom’s progressive stance on LGBTQ rights, a major art exhibition exploring gender rights in Asia is to be staged in the capital. “Spectrosynthesis II- Exposure of Tolerance: LGBTQ in Southeast Asia”, the largest-ever survey of regional contemporary art, will explore gender issues and feature more than 200 works by 50 artists. It will open at the Bangkok Art and Culture Centre (BACC) on November 23 and run until March 1 next year. The exhibition received huge critical acclaim when it was first staged in Taiwan 2017, after which its Hong Kong-based organiser, the Sunpride Foundation, chose Bangkok as its second stop. http://www.nationmultimedia.com/detail/national/30361941

You have terrific recall. That evening--and others we spent at Maxi's--provided many laughs and memorable companionship. Van is one handsome and personable young man and it was obvious that he looks out for your best interests. You're a lucky guy, ggobkk.

From Travel and Leisure "A lot has changed in recent years," says Roots founder Varatt Vichit-Vadakan. "Thailand is probably the only country in the world that has a well-developed consumer market — loads of specialty coffee shops in its big cities — while also being a coffee-producing country." When Han Wang moved to Bangkok eight years ago, one of the first things he noticed was the coffee. Unlike the delicate light roasts and well-balanced flat whites Wang learned to appreciate while attending college in Australia, everything seemed “too sweet or bitter to even consider swallowing.” Starbucks had been a major player since opening its first shops in the country in 1998; its robust dark roasts and cloying Frappuccinos were as ubiquitous as the equally strong, sugary iced coffee (a.k.a. oliang) that had long been a staple of Thailand’s shophouses and market stalls. Wang wasn’t about to give up on finding a truly great cup, though. Having recently witnessed the rise of third-wave coffee in Taiwan — Wang did a stint in Taipei before relocating to Bangkok — the Malaysian-born entrepreneur was convinced he could spark a similar movement in one of Southeast Asia’s most progressive cities. So he set his psychology degree aside and launched Phil Coffee Co. in an industrial neighborhood, with the help of his father and two sisters. Wang didn't rush into running a cafe, instead focusing on his roasting techniques and wholesale accounts for the first three years. Eventually, the team set up Phil's flagship shop in Bangkok's fashionable Ekkamai neighborhood. He wasn’t alone. Around the same time, other influential Bangkok outposts like One Ounce For Onion, Rocket Coffeebar, and Casa Lapin began attracting hip locals with elaborate pour-over setups, Western-style small plates, and bottles of cold brew for beating the heat and humidity. One leading figure during these early days was Roots, a heavyweight roaster that also happens to run one of the hottest brunch spots in town, Roast. "A lot has changed in recent years," says Roots founder Varatt Vichit-Vadakan. "Thailand is probably the only country in the world that has a well-developed consumer market — loads of specialty coffee shops in its big cities — while also being a coffee-producing country." Continues with pics and video https://www.travelandleisure.com/food-drink/craft-coffee-cafes-bangkok-thailand

I used to frequent Banana Club 2-3 years ago but found that the service (and selection) began to drop off over time. Liked the spacious showers and the manager's attitude. Read on another forum that manager said that it was becoming too much trouble to "manage" the guys. Fortunately there's an abundance of fine alternatives. DivineMadman's massage site is a great resource: https://bkkmassages.wordpress.com/

Air carriers in Vietnam are modernizing and expanding their fleets, according to the current issue of Aviation Week magazine. Discounter VietJet, one of the world's top 10 fastest growing carriers, has hubs in Hanoi and HCMC. It has already started accepting delivery of some 121 new generation Airbus 321 Neo's and expects to receive its first of as many as 100 Boeing 737-Max aircraft late next year. VietJet is also looking at adding international routes. Vietnam Airlines has 20 321 Neo's on order along with Airbus 350's and Boeing 787-9's. Both VietJet and Vietnam Airlines use BKK for Bangkok flight operations. Bamboo Airways, a new low cost carrier, is expected to makes it debut in early 2019 with a fleet of A321's and B787-9's. It is a subsidiary of conglomerate FLC Group.