faranglaw

Dear Husband and I recently traveled for three weeks with two of our very oldest and dearest friends. By the third week, my friend Sally, who I have known and loved for 39 years, texted me that "If we are breaking up John (Sally's husband) wants your hummus recipe." So our veteran posters here are right, three weeks is a recipe for a miserable vacation. Don't let fear of loneliness ruin your precious holiday time!

There seems to be no one size fits all here. I don't think that Laos is much of a barrier if someone from Vietnam wants to get to Thailand. Some come on tourist visas, some on no visas, some cross the river in the dead of night, some pay bribes, some do all or none of the above. I was only wondering why a Vietnamese national stuck in this difficult situation would come for advice to one of us, rather than to friends on the Vietnamese community. The Vietnamese guys I met would shrug off the threat of bribes or jail time if caught. They gain too much financially by being here. Some of them said they had children and families back in Vietnam that they are supporting. We all know this, of course. It's a very rough world and we only see the smallest sliver of it. I have mentioned this before, but my Western sense that there is justice and fairness in the world, that the authorities will somehow fix a problem, was knocked out of me forever when a boy I knew, an immigrant from Myanmar, was murdered, and the Thai police allowed his (farang) murderer to go free. At about the same time, those two British nationals were killed on the beach, and the full force of the state came down on two immigrants from Myanmar who were probably innocent. In this world, I would hesitate to recommend that a possibly illegal immigrant go to the authorities. I would instead recommend they go to their trusted community, if they have one, for advice. But I also know that many of you veterans know more about this than I do, and may have a legitimate, and different, opinion.

I have recently met a few very nice Vietnamese guys in a neighborhood I frequent, presumably straight. Friendly guys. Many stories about coming across the border without papers or visas, possibly crossing a river at night or some other way I haven't thought of. My point here is that as much as we farang love to help with the practical stuff, we may be out of our depth in a situation like this. It seems to me your friend should be able to get much more useful help from other Vietnamese immigrants who are also in the legal twilight Zone. No offense intended, as I admire your willingness to spend time supporting him, but I'm curious why your friend hasn't used his contacts with other Vietnamese to try to solve this problem.

Really? Two days off a month? Would you like those working conditions? Yes it's the Third World and in many ways the boys have it better than in an office job, and in just about every way, better than in a construction job, but still...

I've been to Thailand very December and or January for the past 15+ years. Usually New Years Eve is quite festive here, with boom boxes in every neighbourhood and people enjoying a drink or two. This year, it was eerily quiet, at least in my neighbourhood in bkk. Yes, the mourning period seems to be making a difference. Seacon Square feels a bit like a black and white movie, with only the odd Thai person or farang wearing bright colours.

You have to be rather privileged to see the two as equally harmful. I don't know the background of every poster here, but any American should know that blackface is offensive to most African Americans. I don't see anything wrong with pointing that out, little SJW long ago history major me.

Interesting thoughts. This reminds me of a sociology study I read many years ago about how people from different class backgounds view life. The gist of it was this: Upper class people are obsessed with the past; middle class people are obsessed with the future; working class and poor people are obsessed with the present. I think this makes a great deal of sense. These different ethics would pass from generation to generation, so even though the boys might not quite be in desperate survival mode, their parents and grandparents likely were. How many of the money boys we meet have a middle class background? I would guess less than 5%. Likely most people on this site grew up with the middle class obsession with the future--savings accounts, mortgages, planning for retirement or children's college education, the expectation that the next generation will do as well or better than ours. Like the proverbial goldfish, we swim in this reality, so we don't even notice it. It's just normal life to us. Now imagine a diffeent reality where absolutely none of these things is even remotely possible or relevant. I think that's the reality these boys live with. Throw in a bit of alcoholism or violence in the home, and this is their goldfish bowl. So the question about the future will be met with a blank stare and a vague statement about not wanting to get old. Sorry to get overly theoretical. I'm interested in others' thoughts.

Well, yes, vinapu, that about sums it up. When you factor in wasted time on line or with in person flirting, and the tedious same ol' "But you have bf already." "Yes but he doesn't get jealous, let's fuck," "oh I don't know..." -- then yes, the simpler PFP looks pretty damn good. Although I have say that finding a cutie in the darkroom at Babs was not exactly costly in my view, as long as they came out into the light and accompanied me to a room, which they often did. But I do think there's more to it than a dichotomy between PFP and "dating." The darkroom at Babs is free of charge after you pay the modest entrance fee, but it's not quite my idea of "dating!" Then again, I suppose everyone has his or her own personal definition of a "date."

Excuse me? Pay for play culture? Pay for sex like anybody else does? Who exactly is that "anybody else"? ... Not sure I understood your post correctly, as you live here like I do and know a thing or two, but the post is certainly misleading to newbies like the OP in my opinion. I agree completely with anddy as this is also my experience. I am surprised at ryanasia's post here, as I usually find his thoughts to be very sound. But his idea that everyone pays to play is completly wrong. I have been to Thailand every year since 1990. Most of the sex I had was at Babylon, some just from meeting guys on the street, almost never from a bar or money boy scene. Throughout my fifties, every year I went back to Babylon wondering if this would be the year I would finally have to give up the free sex scene and start paying. Every year I smiled smugly and said to self, "Nope, not this year." Now that I'm 66 I'm finally crossing over to the pay for play world, but even now, not always. There are thousands of attractive men here in Bangkok who are happy to play without bing paid. This would especially be true for the OPs, as they are in their twenties for God sake. I am disappointed that ryanasia's post continues the sterotype that sex in Thailand is all about money. It isn't.

Loads of interesting young Asian men on Hornet and Grindr if you are not into the noisy bar scene. At your ages you could likely attract nice attractive guys for little or no cost. On hornet you can search any neighborhood in Thailand from your own country, a very nice feature of that site. Also don't forget the famous infamous Babylon sauna. At off season there will likely be more Asian men there than Caucasians, unlike now at the high season. Babylon, in the unlikely chance you don't know already, is world famous; it has a pool, well equipped gym, massage (non-sexual), a restaurant, and entertainment that's not bad. And of course, loads of places to roam for sex. I'm sure you'll have a great time!

You mean if you live with your mother you get to live more than once? :-)

Well when I'm in Suan Phlu you just come right on over. Hugs and oral sex are my specialty.

Now in transit in Seoul. Thanks for the advice. It should be ok unless things have changed quite radically. I just wondered if anyone had noticed a change. Hornet boys, herre I come!

So, being genreally out to lunch about what is happening in the world, I am sitting in the airport in Vancouver, on my way to LOS, and reading about the frightening changes in entry visas to Thailand. For 20+ years, Dear Husband and I have always booked our tickets from Bangkok to Vancouver, rather than from Vancouver, as it's usually cheaper. So I have always arrived and gotten the 30 day stamp on arrival, woth no return ticket in hand. Now the websites tell me they are asking for a return ticket as proof I will not overstay. I also read that getting an extension is not so easy anymore. I am planning to stay 40-45 days. I apologize for asking this, as I think the topic may have been discussed quite a bit elsewhere, but Any insights would be most welcome. Is anyone getting hassled on arrival, trouble extending beyond 30 days, etc? Obviously I will get this taken care of here in Canada next time! Thanks....

Thanks everyone for thse excellent suggestions. Much appreciated.

Hi all, I am leaving Vancouver tomorrow and have a developing tooth ache. Arrgh. I don't think I can get an appointment here today. Can anyone recommend a decent dentist in Bangkok at a reasonable fee? Thanks in advance!

This makes perfect sense to me. But I'm curious. Does anyone actually know for a fact, not jus an idle rumor, of farang being deported for public sex? There seems to be an awful lot of toilet cruising in LOS.

I'm enjoying it too, appreciating seeing Thailand and "the scene" through the eyes of someone so new to it. Keep writing from the heart. Don't be afraid if appearing foolish. We've all been there and the best writing I've seen here is from people who are willing to admit they've made a bit of an ass of themselves. I Learn the most from those honest posts.

To most of us 'overage' means 35-40 y.o. Sorry to be judgmental, after all no one gets hurt. Oh honey, then let me judge you a little bit. You're still a baby at 35. I have violated the "40 year age difference rule" a number of times already. A good time was had by all, and in some cases no money exchanged hands. Soon I will be able to (legally) violate the 50 year rule, and I am soooo looking forward to it. (So there, you shallow little airhead plummy twink!)

I may have written this little story before, but when I lived in Japan I was at a party with gaijin and Japanese gay men of all ages. The Topic of early sexual experiences came up. One young man about 23 said his first sexual experience was at the 24 sauna, Tokyo's version of Babylon. He liked older men, and was attracted to a man who looked about 60. They want off to a dark corner and the young man had his first sexual experience, at age 17. They got to talking afterwards, and it turned out the older man was not 60, he was 83! Hope springs eternal.

If it had been me, I would have called those friends I had an appointment with and cancelled, telling them something has come up. Actually, it sounds like TWO somethings came up!

I didn't know Prince was there in "my" neighborhood. My husband and I have a condo in Suphalai, alas rented now, so I can't use it. But I still love to visit the 'hood. Cheap Thai style coffee at my friend Suwanna's coffee stand. She is an outgoing fun lady and you can sit there with your brew and watch the parade of office boys and construction workers on their way to work.

Try continuing past Babylon through the pedestrian gate. The Suan Phlu neighborhood is fun and thriving with great street food and a couple of decent hotels. I enjoyed staying at MyBed, quiet and clean for B800. It's not near the Silom scene but there are loads of boys on line in the area looking for customers.

I stayed at the Malaysia once and hated it. Noisy, tired and depressing decor. This was 20 years ago, so maybe it's better now. But two years ago a boy I knew and liked was murdered there, so I doubt I could ever set foot in the place. Pinnacle up the street is a bit more expensive but much nicer. I got a room there a couple of years ago on agoda for 1000. Very nice open air (but small) pool on the roof.

All at the same time?