Londoner

A difficult subject. It wasn't an issue for me when I was a newbie but it became one over the years, not because of the physical reactions of the two of us but due to my emotional responses to what was happening, both during and after the event. This maybe because I'd lived "straight" until my forty-fifth year and from then onwards, ninety percent plus of my gay sexual life was in Thailand, with mbs. I'm not a rarity in this regard; many of the falang guys I met in Pattaya in the late 90s were the same as me in in age, background and experiences. The transition from a repressed sexuality to the freedom and enjoyment of expression was wonderful. And complex. In those days, the years before I met my partner, I looked for, perhaps even needed, an element of reciprocity, even if at some level I accepted that it all was part of the game. My partner admitting to not being gay would have complicated this. I knew it was an illusion and that truth was often concealed. But it was what I required emotionally. Younger gay men may not always remember the struggles my generation went through when what we most deeply desired was declared both illegal and wicked and that disclosure would have resulted in a term in prison and ended my career. In some respects, we remain marked by this even in our joyful liberation, a liberation for which I shall always remain grateful to Thailand. And its mbs.

As usual, when the issue of the less touristy place in Thailand that deserve to be explored is raised here, I sing the praises of Chiang Rai and its environs. This includes the Mekong area and Chiang Saen with its beautiful Lana temple (a very spiritual place), the border town of Mai Sai, an individual choice but I always find border towns interesting, and Mae Salong, a village in the mountains where the remnants of the defeated Chinese Nationalist army , or rather their descendents, still live. Unique, literally so. And a magnificent, if sometimes hair-raising drive.

I'm a little surprised by this. When we were last there, pre-Covid so things may have changed, we were irritated by the cost of travelling a couple of kms in Patong on one of those little buses. 200 bht a time? or is my memory misleading me? On the other hand, our taxi fare to and from the airport I recall was better value than that from Bkk to Pattaya. In general terms I agree that Phuket is more expensive than Pattaya but we have found good prices at hotels in the low season. There seems to be a bigger hike for the high season than in Pattaya.... the place we stayed in last time was excellent but way beyond our budget had we gone there later in the year.

Does it still provide personal "butlers" to guests? And what about the bell-boys? Many years ago, I saw a photo of the them all standing in a line, giggling with each other charmingly. I have to say that it was the most beautiful photo I've ever seen in a travel magazine. I bet they have some stories to tell....

Mea Culpa! My memory played me false when I posted about Good Boys. Thanks for the corrections. There was indeed a very short-lived bar in that vicinity whose hosts dressed as I described- and I have a story to tell about it but at the moment am too red-faced to do so. Yes, I now remember the "mechanics" of good Boys , but only from a distance. I remember their being very friendly as I passed but were not "my type" so I didn't enter the bar. Once again, thanks for the correction.

I recall that place... when it opened, I gave it a try. Not my scene, sadly- not the way I was brought-up! But what I remember most was the dress -code; weren't all the guys dressed in white shirts, ties and black, formal trousers? The place didn't last long. By the way, could the title of this thread be changed? Everytime I open it I think someone is looking to find a new owner for his friendly dog. And soi dogs are in the news in Pattaya at the moment , are they not?

Flooding is a problem in the north at the moment. Chiang Rai has been badly hit- some may have heard about the guy in the cave rescue being rescued again, this time from the roof of his home- and people have been killed by mud-slides in CM. Not a good time to visit, IMHO.

In my salad days (my fifties) my Thailand day was from 10.00am until 0100. Now it is from 0700 until 2100. O tempores, o mores. While I miss the excitement of those late nights, I enjoy getting-up early to enjoy the cool, fresh air from the sea as I do my "constitutional" along Jomtien Beach. And I'm by no means alone; plenty of guys of my age do the same. And joggers too, mainly young women. I sometimes marvel as to how accommodating Pattaya and Jomtien have been to my ageing process. I loved those nights of bars and sanuk but what I do now gives me enormous satisfaction.

I recall my inability to complete the Thailand Pass without the help of a neighbour....yes, I'm that incompetent on these d**n machines. And also that , two days after receiving my "welcome to Thailand" email, the procedure was dropped. Now, I have to face the angst of another fight with my computer or, alternatively, another humiliating "please help the old guy next door" request to my neighbour. No chance of a waiver for those of us of a certain age, I suppose? After all, I've been supporting the Thai economy for twenty five years.

Any newbie to Thailand should be aware that hiv is still a serious issue and that, despite improved medication resulting in it not being a death sentence, victims can be assured of a lifetime of tablets and monthly check-ups. And fear. Add to this the social stigma, particularly in the provinces. You should assume that any commercial or "just for fun" partner is hiv+ and act accordingly. A young guy like the poster has decades of fun (and even perhaps a rewarding relationship) ahead of him; a bad decision, fuelled by drink drugs or desire, can change all that. So he should bring his own condoms and lube and not have unprotected sex, including oral. That issue has been thoroughly discussed on this forum so he should check the archives. And, finally, ensure that he is not unwittingly infecting his partners.

Congestion? I've used it six times since Covid ended, arriving at a busy time (1600 or so) and I've never had more than three people in front of me.

Yes...."same same"!

Anyone speak Thinglish with his boyfriend? P hates me speaking Thai. And it has to be admitted that I'm pretty bad at it when I try. In fact, I no longer dare to. However, over the years we have developed our own version of Thinglish. The embarrassing thing is I that when I arrive back home, I find myself still speaking it!

"Elderly....?" Thank heavens for that! You youngsters don't need it as much as we do!

If we are to pursue this topic, it would be amusing to note other Thai words or derivatives which falang visitors discover early on in their associations with Thailand. Here's a few; Mamasan, khatoey, aroi-na, baht-bus, check-bin, bir-sing, mau. And sawatdee-khrap, of course.

I recommend "Thai for Gay Tourists" by Saksit Pakdeesiam (Paiboon Publishing). A few Thai Gay phrases will impress the average go go dancer enormously. Some may be out of date now....such things have a limited shelf-life. And I'm told that some are not for polite society. "Ching-chong" is the term that a little boy would use when speaking to Mama. Our "pee" as Colmx points out. Harmless.

I very much support the views of those who speak of the benefits lone-travel. The one thing I'd add is that it helps enormously if there are plenty of English speakers around. I loved my single-travel in northern Thailand before I met P but I'd have loved to have been able to speak with the locals. So limited was my Thai (it's even worse now) that I couldn't even explain to a shopkeeper on the way up to Doi Inthanon that I desperately (really desperately) needed a ching-chong. My physical actions to describe the agony I was in would have caused my arrest in Bangkok. I found in West and East Africa plenty of English speakers, thanks to British colonialism and the teaching of the language in schools. However when I went in-land, away from tourist areas, it was more difficult. I remember being less successful in Morocco "off the beaten track" where my appalling French encouraged pity. In Palestine, so many people spoke good English that I was able to travel by bus anywhere. And, obviously, everyone had a story to tell and a demand that I repeat it when I arrived home. The children had been taught in school to welcome us, even though my country had betrayed Palestine continually for ninety years. "Welcome to Palestine; you are most welcome here," was a constant. It must be be in some school text-book. Overall, the vulnerability of being alone, strangely enough, was often a bonus in foreign parts. My experience is that wherever you go, you can make friends by being open , willing to listen, interested and courteous. And, it goes without saying, being sensible and following local advice. Here follows my usual banality; "the poorer the people and the more disadvantaged, the warmer the welcome you receive. "

When I was single, I found the afternoons in Pattaya difficult to fill. Jomtien beach was fine for a couple of hours but no longer than that for me, and the go go didn't start until 2100. There were only two gay massage places, both far away from Boyztown but with only a handful of masseurs available; and no apps in those far-off days, obviously. Even TV was limited, very limited in the sort of hotels I could afford. No mobiles. Nor laptops. Royal Garden was newly-open (two floors of it) and there was some cruising there but I was much too shy; I needed gogo bars. I suppose I was lonely. The only people I knew in Pattaya were "short-time" friends. And of course, that particular tribe only comes out to play after dusk. This was the time I stopped being lonely. So , all I can say now to younger guys is "count your blessings". The internet, the numerous a/c-ed malls. Even TV. Hotels that are probably more comfortable than they were thirty years ago in my price range. Massage guys and willing visitors to hotel rooms are available twenty-four hours a day. No time to be lonely!

Those of us "of a certain age" may find the issue of disturbing neighbours on a flight a little embarrassing. For me, it's immediate access to a toilet or stay at home. More seriously, I can now travel only Business Class, where all seats are singles and there are more toilets per seat, to avoid being considered an Undesirable Passenger. For those younger than me who cannot hide a smirk, all I can say is "Wait and see."

Twice, as a forty-eight year-old youngster in the first flush of my love -affair with Thailand, I travelled from London for a five day stay. And loved every minute of it. I have no memory of how I coped back at work the day after my return, though perhaps my colleagues have!

Here's three, though I've posted more than once on the gay scene in CM on this site. ibischiangmai.com travelgay.com nomadicboys.com Not my recommendations; just for info.

Not as cute as the Asian ice-skaters someone posted on this site some time ago!

Massage "shops"? I seldom went inside one....if I fancied one of the available guys sitting outside, I'd "off" him to my hotel, to ensure a decent shower, a comfortable bed and walls that weren't paper thin. In my innocence, I thought that this was the usual practice in our community. Wasn't it?

And worth every penny....though, some may say, not a penny more!

F & C was credited with saving the working class during the Depression , particularly in the north. Of course, there was a fishing industry then... As an aside, do other posters remember that we used to wrap our chips in newspaper back in the fifties? Some claimed that the print actually enhanced the taste! Here's poem by the "Mersey sound" poet , Roger McGough, from the Beatles era. Sometimes I feel Like a priest In a fish and chip queue Quietly thinking As the vinegar runs through How nice it would be To buy supper for two.