Londoner

Give Babylon another chance. The low season is more productive for falangs since there are fewer of us around. Even then, it varies from day to day. I fear that your age- infinitely preferable to mine though it is- suggests that the saunas popular with young Thais may not answer your needs.

Correct; that's why I went to Palestine for the first time in 2004 - to see for myself. It was a traumatic experience, i was frequently angry and often tearful at the suffering I witnessed ... and it changed my life. In the words of John Ruskin;"We did not travel for adventure, nor for company, but to see with own eye and to measure with our hearts."

"The Dark Ages" through which Muslims are supposed to be going have been imposed by our governments. The colonisation of the 20th century, culminating in that of Palestine 1948, the support for vicious autocrats and their oil, humanitarian interventions (sic) have resulted in blow-back. We call it terrorism and fight it with...well, our own terror. As ye sow, so shall ye reap. I tend to think that, so far, we've got off rather lightly compared to the mayhem and despair we've brought to the Islamic world..

The guys are in a difficult situation. If they are too forward, they can annoy some of us. Older readers may recall the 1990s gay guide "The Men of Thailand." The writer always stipulated in which Bangkok bars the guys approached and vice versa. It seemed that in the more Thai orientated places (often in Saphan Kwai), they didn't, while in Boyztown and so on they did. Nowadays, I enjoy a drink in the early evening while my boyfriend spends his usual two hours showering and getting ready for dinner (an exaggeration...it's only one) and most assuredly don't want contact in the bars other than a smile and a sawatdee khrap. Twenty plus years ago, as a shy newbie looking for company, I welcomed it.

I overlooked the latest comments debunking this story but I shall let my response stand. For heaven's sake, have you seen the behaviour of my countrymen in Soi 6? I've seen plenty of instances of bad behaviour in Boyztown and Sunee; are the Britons and Germans responsible held to be typical of their countries or ethnicity? Any other examples of "Arab" misbehaviour in the area? Or was this example interesting because there are none? And now we have yet another reference to the Sunee motorcyclists, an issue which encouraged a barrage of racist comments on another forum a few months ago. You may recall that this included sick jokes about razor wire across the soi and other hate-filled posts. I'm sorry to say that much of this racism was posted by Americans but I know them to be atypical of their countrymen in Thailand. And I've met plenty. Just as I believe that this Arab to be atypical. As are the drunken British louts in Soi 6.

Sun Bar was certainly busy two weeks back. If only Boyztown had been a week later.

Two weeks ago, the Hotmale host bars were active; I met a very nice Cambodian guy there. Banana bar had a few hosts too...it's been a long time since it had more than a few. I was only there one night but, as far as I could see, there was little change to what I'd seen four months ago. I can't comment on the go go bars. The loss of Dicks was very sad. It was a good place to watch the world go by. The Jomtien Dicks, on the other hand, was still going strong last week and I had an excellent dinner there.

Each trip, I ask the same question; a regular -one of whom has been reliable and still handsome performer for ten years- or take a chance on a newbie who may or may not be a star. I'm in Pattaya at the moment and have relied on my three regulars. However, the one chance I took has turned out to be a star and- assuming he stays here-has joined the ranks of the regulars! How lucky we are....in a week's time, back in chilly London, I shall be thinking about this with a tear in my eye!

I use Planet Romeo....the Classic version when I'm at home, the other one here in Thailand. But I must add a cautionary note. In August 1996 I made that first life-changing visit to Pattaya. I was so overwhelmed,I booked another trip for October. In my dreams I had a list of three guys whom I was determined to meet. To my horror , all three had "gone home" on my return. And as my visits grew in number, I became aware that the go go community is transitory. Some stay to make a career (meeting the "right " falang) but many others are here in Pattaya for six months or a year before returning home. So my advice is, don't expect your favoured guys to be around on your next visit or even to answer your messages. You may be disappointed.

The curious thing about fundamentalism is that in whatever religion it gains a foothold, the results are very similar. Christian, Jewish, Islamic, Hindu,even some of the wilder extremes of Buddhism. Anti-women, anti-gay, repressive socially, oppressive politically and aggressive militarily. My experience in Palestine is that the fundamentalism in Occupied Palestine is predomiantlyJewish. It is Jewish women who tend to be subservient and closeted while Palestinian women are defiant and politically- motivated. In the schools, it is usually the young girls who are the most articulate and politically aware; the boys tend to be the ones who are involved in confronting the settlers and Occupation Army. You don't see women with full-face veils and in the larger towns, the dress of girls tends to be t-shirts and jeans. Very different to the settlement women....not that you often see them anyway! Islamic countries were the ones where gay sexuality was tolerated and, in some cases, culturally -celebrated, right up to the middle of the 20th century. Wilde and Gide in North Africa, Burroughs and Orton in Tangiers for example....while in Medieval Islam there was a literary culture that celebrated gay love in poetry and song.For centuries, European gay men went to Islamic countries to escape oppression. A personal memory. In 2009 my boyfriend was seriously ill in hospital. My Muslim Palestinian friend made a special journey to Al Aqsa Mosque in Jerusalem to pray for him. I joked that my boyfriend was the first gay , Buddhist Thai to have had special prayers said for him in the third most holy site in Islam in nearly one thousand years! And in case you're wondering, Allah answered the prayer!

Krabi is certainly worth a visit and boat-trips to many beautiful islands- those which haven't yet been closed by the government- are enjoyable. But be aware of the crowds, predominantly young Chinese on my last two trips. Aonang has little going for it in the evenings other than restaurants...and those are not that good in my view So, for me, Krabi is sun , sea and sleep. Heaven help you if you hit a bad period of weather as we did a few years ago. Air Asia offer amazing deals from Dom Muang airport. It is , of course, nowhere near as good a location as Swampy , nor are its facilities as good. But it's a lot better than it was a few years ago. Return flights at about 2500 bht if you book early.

I can understand Paborn's perspective; those of us who live in the west depend on the perceptions of others. And "the others"- the media, the politicians, the economic elite- have their own fish to fry. Remember that Islamic nations were colonised and brutalised for political and economic gain for two hundred years and, now allegedly independent, they are seen as a threat to the colonial-settler enterprise of Israel....with which the west is closely allied. We have have tied our colours to the mast for too long, the mast being colonialism, what Edward Said calls orientalism and now Zionism- three ideologies that require fear and loathing of "the other".In this case, Islam. And when our mistakes result in blow-back- as in Iraq, Syria and most obviously Palestine- we refuse to consider how we are responsible for the catastrophes that inevitably follow. My perspective is certainly very different to that of most people in the west; I have spent too long in Occupied Palestine to be blind to the realities of of living under a foreign and malicious occupying army. And of course, it was my own country, the UK,that ran away when Palestine was invaded in 1948, leaving the very people the UN had asked us to protect to be slaughtered or exiled.And their descendants colonised.

That strikes a chord. My first visit to Thailand in 1996 changed my life. I'd lived as a straight man for forty plus years and the bars of Pattaya opened my eyes to what I'd missed. Subsequent visits to other parts of the country where sex was not involved confirmed that Thailand is special in many, many ways. After nine years and thirty or more trips, I met my boyfriend and fell in love... the only boyfriend in my life. I owe the people of Thailand so much..

Agreed. It's odd how Muslims are held to account for every deviation from the Koran while it is accepted that Jews, Christians, Hindus and even some Buddhists are given leeway to retain their faith alongside their sexuality. Buddhists? yes....those of us who have boyfriends who are involved in DMC will know what I'm talking about. That's why I regard it as Islamophobic.

I counted four that have closed recently in the Silom/Surawong area. Any explanation?

This thread illustrates very nicely how some governments have a vested interest in encouraging ignorance and Islamophobia. Cui bono?

Thanks witty....we must have posted almost simultaneously!

Any evidence of fundamentalist Islam in that area? the violence in the region isn't religious but nationalistic. It's about land and national identity. There are pockets of Islamism in Indonesia and perhaps some of the remote Philippine islands but not in Thailand. To my knowledge , anyway. I've spent too long in Muslim communities in Africa and the Middle East not to be suspicious of some of the generalisations I read in the western media.

I wish z909 had posted his Vietienne story before! I was there three months ago and saw only massage places with female masseurs. I know one gay mb in Pattaya from Vientienne; he told me that he had worked as a masseur there but that any sexual activity was forbidden. I guess that z209 was either lucky....or has a lot more nerve than me.!

My apologies if this has been discussed before. Can anyone offer advice about the massage joints in Surawong, close to the Tarntawan Hotel? Two at least now seem to be male-only. Are these guys available for offing to my hotel room for massage and the usual extras? Is there a bar-fine?

Thanks for that. But one question remains unanswered;. Regulars at Thai saunas know that, occasionally, a good-looking young guy will initiate sex with an older falang. It has even happened a few times in London saunas when I've met Asian guys. Very occasionally, sadly! I find such encounters more enjoyable than commercial ones because the choice is his, not mine. There are plenty of studies explaining cultural issues which lead some ( a few?) Asians to prefer sex with older men. I wonder if a447a frequents Thai saunas? If he were to meet such guys as I have, would he appreciate, even prefer, such encounters? Or is the commercial aspect an end in itself?

I'm fascinated by a447a's posts so I hope he can help me with this. I ask in the spirit of genuine enquiry, not wishing to offend but bewildered and intrigued by some responses to sexual activity. When one of of us posts about enjoying sex with a guy who is ostentatiously not gay and achieves erection/orgasm by looking at straight porn (or, as in a447a's report) thinking about his wife back home...is this in itself erotic for the falang? If the guy was gay and enjoyed what he was doing, would it detract from the falang's pleasure? There are of course, young Thai men who actually enjoy sex with older guys- I've met a number of them In Babylon, Sansuk and House of Male over they years. If a447 were to offered the services of one such guy in a massage parlour would he prefer to choose someone different?

The apps may have done the bars no favours but they have given me, at least, the opportunity to enjoy myself in the afternoons. And they have certainly increased the earning-potential of MBs!

I started visiting Pattaya in the late 90s and quickly fell in love with it....or rather its inhabitants. However, the go-go bars didn't open until 2100 and there were not the huge numbers of massage parlours that here are now. Nor of malls with a/c (Royal Garden had just opened its lower floors). And no Sansuk of course. I've never been a fan of Pattaya's beaches but was happy to spend a couple of hours at Jomtien if only because, in those days, the MBs would wander up and down the channels between the deck -chairs and there was always the possibility of a chat. Or more. The truth is that the hours between about 1600 and 1900 were boring. Apart from a meal and then a Singha in Cocobanana (later Panorama), I'd sit around my hotel room awaiting the magic moment when the go-go started.

I wasn't referring to your post, Paborn. And I was certainly not intending to be rude.The difference of opinion concerning the meaning of "twink" is long-standing. I'm not sure that many straight guys would welcome the term being applied to them! and for me, a twink is gay. But so what? I agree that there's room for both Nice and Winners in Sunee and there's even more room for these different perceptions of a word.