Londoner

Remember Neal from Happy Place in Pattaya Soi 2? Sorry to reminisce- yet again- but he was a famous (to some notorious) regular in Boyztown until his untimely death a few years ago. A wealthy guy, with a successful business in the US, he did exactly what OD wants to do. The result was Happy Place. The old venue ("Crystal Boys"?) was gutted and no expense was spared when fitting it out. Not willing to work too hard he appointed one of his harem- he was invariably accompanied by a group of cute guys - as mamasan/manager..... ....who proceeded to run "private parties" after the bar had closed. A rival alerted Neal at 0300 am who jumped in his car and arrived as the party was in full swing. The mamasan was summarily sacked. Allegedly, he was being paid 30,000 baht per month. Neal had told me that making money wasn't a concern; it was just a hobby. And it failed. The lessons? for a bar to work, the owner needs to put in the hours; but most importantly he must be as rich as Neal. And even then....

We enjoy Balcony in Soi 4; traditional Thai food in large portions (much the same as at the much-missed Dick's), average prices, and good for people watching if you choose to sit outside.

Floridabob's mention of Joe, the papasan whom he met recently and who said he'd been around for twenty years, is one of many guys who made a living in Boyztown for decades. Who recalls "Tiger", a fixture on the periphery of the scene and who is mentioned in MIchael Burchill's history of Boyztown? A go go boy in the late eighties and still around six or so years ago. Sadly, he passed away. And there were a couple of guys whom I offed when I was a butterfly and who were still working in Boyztown only a few years ago. It is amazing how some Thai guys keep their looks. As for Joe, yes, I know him. He was a waiter in P's bar in 2004, always taking a keen interest in our developing relationship.The last time I saw him was a few years ago in a short-lived bar opposite Toyboys. I can't recall its name....Prism? Boyztown has been a world unto itself since the 1980s. There are many stories that began there, some happy such as mine, others sad, particularly during the years when Hiv was more prevalent than it is today. And that's before we start considering the bar-owners themselves- Jim from BBB, Kevin from Throb. Any other Boyztown characters that deserve a mention?

And here I am, sitting in grey London , counting the hours to my arrival in Bangkok (approximately 200 of them, if you want to know) and bemoaning the sheer ordinariness of my life and the absence of handsome guys smiling winsomely at me: one in particular. And much else that I am too shy to mention. A word of advice to O.D. which he is free to take or ignore; we usually don't know how much we enjoy things until they're over.

I'd appreciate a report from Ambiance. Is it busy? And Boyztown itself? Leaving it for Jomtien was an easy decision owing to the sleepless nights caused by late night, or rather early morning noise but we both miss those penthouse rooms. And the staff.... is Dom still there? I was very sad to say goodbye to him.

It may be because it evokes childhood memories of family. And family is everything.

The best book I've ever bought about Thailand is "Very Thai" by Phillip Cornwel-Smith, published by River Books (Thailand) in 2005. It is a survey of popular Thai culture, dealing with many issues which are uniquely Thai, and is full of beautiful photographs. The chapter on the Sniff Kiss ("hom kaem") is particularly interesting. Recommended. It's available from Amazon and I expect eleshere (I bought my copy in Dom Muang ) and has been updated. A great Christmas present for anyone who loves Thailand as we do.

I note Vinapu's post elsewhere which referenced the issue of kissing for gay guys in Thailand. I thought it deserved a thread of its own. Have other visitors encountered the view, as expressed by some gay Thais I know, that kissing (the intimate kind, French and just with the lips) is "un-Thai"? Neither topping nor bottoming are, nor even straight sex, nor any other of the usual activities...but kissing? I have to admit that I'm not bothered personally since in both my personas, straight and now gay, it has never been high on my list of pleasures. But a cultural unwillingness to indulge? Any views? Then there's the issue of the "sniff-kiss", originally a mother sniffing her baby to check that all is well and, apparently, used sometimes as an intimate act between adult lovers. Has anyone experienced this? I have been coming to Thailand- specifically gay Thailand- for nearly three decades but there remain cultural issues which still puzzle.

I'm no doctor but those drugs, as I understand it, only affect performance, not desire.

i was offered drugs for an enlarged prostate which was having a disastrous effect on my sleep patterns. However, I checked carefully on the side effects and loss of libido was chief among them. Accordingly, I put up with the problem. At my age, I've not many years of sexual adventuring left and I'll be d****d if I do anything to spoil the last hurrah. A word of encouragement to a-447; the symptoms subsequently suddenly disappeared for no apparent reason. Someone up there loves me! By the way, like others, my libido is also at its most active, demanding and urgent when I am far away from the source of release. This is, as those raised on Evangelical and Fundamentalist readings of the Old Testament will confirm, the result of Original Sin. Look it up.

There have been times on the Jomtien- Pattaya bus in the early evening when P and I have been the only non-Russians . All family groups. However, a guy I know who worked at Serene in Boyztown once told me that the big money-making time was in the early hours of the morning and the high-spending punters were young Russians.

I must have stayed in at least thirty hotels with my Teerak over the years, including non-Thai ones. Hotels of different "classes" and only a couple of them gay. I've been trying to think of any bad experiences at breakfast and I honestly cannot think of even one. Of course, P is now in his forties, and this undoubtedly makes a difference in that we no longer look like a punter-barboy duo. The only time I recall our feeling uncomfortable was on an island trip in Krabi. The offending couple weren't German but Australian.....which surprised us because Old Daddy's countrymen and women are usually so friendly towards us. On that occasion it was an elderly Italian couple on the boat who made it clear that they supported us.

Things have certainly changed since I was playing the scene. For the worse. it makes me wonder why punters don't stick with the apps so that all the cash goes direct to the guys?

Here's thought for those of you who maintain a team of favourites.... In 2003, I was a regular bar-goer and , by accident rather than design, found myself in a routine in which my "offs" usually involved three guys whom I trusted. And of course, liked. Of the three, over a period of four or so visits, one of them became "number one" and the others only occasional recipients of my largesse. By my March trip of 2004, I found myself unwillingly, hesitantly and even annoyingly, falling in...well, you know. And to continue with yet another cliche, the rest is history, or at least my history. And don't any one dare to suggest that I was operating a test run to see see who was the winner in some sort of competition: I was bewitched. So, all of you, beware. You may end-up with a changed life you weren't expecting or wanting. In other words, it may even be safer to choose a newbie every night.

Since 1998 I (and later we) have been spending a period in BKK before moving onward. After all, it's a superb transport hub for the whole region. However, for the last visit in July we decided, independently but with more confidence on the part of P, that our Bangkok trips are over unless we require the airport. I'm a little sad; the BKK-Surawong ride was always thrilling , much more so than the one to Pattaya. And the crowds, the smells, the noise, the sultry atmosphere likewise. However, we'd both decided, as age take its toll, that the ease and comfort of staying in Jomtien at a hotel where we were feted as regulars was just more suited to our current needs. These are simple; relaxation, a variety of good restaurants at exceptional prices, the proximity of a gay scene and its many friendly guys throughout the day and a half-decent beach. I've just remembered that the closure of Babylon was perhaps the beginning of my disenchantment with BKK.

Forgive me; I fully understand that some posters prefer Bolt et al....but can they explain exactly what is wrong with the the BKK public taxis? Comfort? cost?

As I've said numerous times, here and elsewhere, I walk out of BKK with a song in my heart , where thirty or so taxis await me, and only on one occasion in the last ten trips- the first one after Covid- have I found a queue. No emails. No phone calls. No anxious waits to see if the driver is stuck in traffic. I know others disagree but after eighty trips (or more) from DMK and BKK, I just can't see the point of altering my routine.

It is good manners to buy a drink for him, even if you choose not to pursue interest. He is a worker; time not on the podium is time and possibly money, lost. It is a rather different matter if a pushy mamasam imposes a guy on you. Or two, as once happened to me in Bangkok. However, on that occasion I was such a softie that I did give the guys tips, surmising that the mamasan may have been concerned that they weren't very popular and needed a helping hand. However, being a softie costs so beware! It's really a case of "up to you."

Yes, please do. The "fresh" views of a newbie would fascinate me.

A difficult subject. It wasn't an issue for me when I was a newbie but it became one over the years, not because of the physical reactions of the two of us but due to my emotional responses to what was happening, both during and after the event. This maybe because I'd lived "straight" until my forty-fifth year and from then onwards, ninety percent plus of my gay sexual life was in Thailand, with mbs. I'm not a rarity in this regard; many of the falang guys I met in Pattaya in the late 90s were the same as me in in age, background and experiences. The transition from a repressed sexuality to the freedom and enjoyment of expression was wonderful. And complex. In those days, the years before I met my partner, I looked for, perhaps even needed, an element of reciprocity, even if at some level I accepted that it all was part of the game. My partner admitting to not being gay would have complicated this. I knew it was an illusion and that truth was often concealed. But it was what I required emotionally. Younger gay men may not always remember the struggles my generation went through when what we most deeply desired was declared both illegal and wicked and that disclosure would have resulted in a term in prison and ended my career. In some respects, we remain marked by this even in our joyful liberation, a liberation for which I shall always remain grateful to Thailand. And its mbs.

As usual, when the issue of the less touristy place in Thailand that deserve to be explored is raised here, I sing the praises of Chiang Rai and its environs. This includes the Mekong area and Chiang Saen with its beautiful Lana temple (a very spiritual place), the border town of Mai Sai, an individual choice but I always find border towns interesting, and Mae Salong, a village in the mountains where the remnants of the defeated Chinese Nationalist army , or rather their descendents, still live. Unique, literally so. And a magnificent, if sometimes hair-raising drive.

I'm a little surprised by this. When we were last there, pre-Covid so things may have changed, we were irritated by the cost of travelling a couple of kms in Patong on one of those little buses. 200 bht a time? or is my memory misleading me? On the other hand, our taxi fare to and from the airport I recall was better value than that from Bkk to Pattaya. In general terms I agree that Phuket is more expensive than Pattaya but we have found good prices at hotels in the low season. There seems to be a bigger hike for the high season than in Pattaya.... the place we stayed in last time was excellent but way beyond our budget had we gone there later in the year.

Does it still provide personal "butlers" to guests? And what about the bell-boys? Many years ago, I saw a photo of the them all standing in a line, giggling with each other charmingly. I have to say that it was the most beautiful photo I've ever seen in a travel magazine. I bet they have some stories to tell....

Mea Culpa! My memory played me false when I posted about Good Boys. Thanks for the corrections. There was indeed a very short-lived bar in that vicinity whose hosts dressed as I described- and I have a story to tell about it but at the moment am too red-faced to do so. Yes, I now remember the "mechanics" of good Boys , but only from a distance. I remember their being very friendly as I passed but were not "my type" so I didn't enter the bar. Once again, thanks for the correction.

I recall that place... when it opened, I gave it a try. Not my scene, sadly- not the way I was brought-up! But what I remember most was the dress -code; weren't all the guys dressed in white shirts, ties and black, formal trousers? The place didn't last long. By the way, could the title of this thread be changed? Everytime I open it I think someone is looking to find a new owner for his friendly dog. And soi dogs are in the news in Pattaya at the moment , are they not?