Londoner

I'm years out of date on this topic but as I understand it, BBB has always thought of itself a cut above the other Boyztown bars when it comes to pricing.

That's true.....the popular malls are outside the Old City and Night Market areas.

I'd miss the chats with the drivers...nearly always Isaan people. And Red shirts to a man...for a Leftist like me, fascinating. P once spent the entire BKK-Pattaya trip talking politics with one driver. I didn't understand a word, of course. Just as I don't when he talks about his beloved DMC (the Buddhist movement), another favourite topic amongst drivers. Look at the photos above the visor. Some BBK drivers struggle to make a living, you know. You may be surprised to learn that some sleep in their cars. By the way, I wouldn't dream of using the bus. My last trip in one ended a few miles before Chonburi when it broke down and we were left stranded. As far as safety is concerned, check the tyres! I couldn't believe what I saw at Ekamai. But that was along time ago.

Perhaps a new thread should be started...."the worst toilets in Thailand". For me, the old K-Boys (predecessor of Nice). And in the world? a public toilet in rural West Africa. I don't thank you for reminding me of that experience.

Gay Chiang Mai has never, in my estimation, had the buzz of the old Soi Twilight or Boyztown. Even when Adam's Apple was drawing ahundred or so punters and there was standing-room only, the surrounding area was quiet. It was, after all, a residential centre. The other local bars mere three hundred meters away, were also isolated and situated in rather dark sois. When I was a single visitor, I liked the fact that CM offered an experience very different to those of Pattaya and Bangkok. The Night Market was bustling but even the group of small (and notorious) gay bars there were secluded.

I've been struggling to recall the sleaziest scenes I've seen in Thailand. Here are a couple. 1) X boys in Soi Twlight bar; a young falang (a rarity in those parts!) dragged very willingly onto the podium, stripped naked and serviced by a group of performers. This was the bar which had a small cage in which three dancers in tattered denim shorts slowly and provocatively pushed them down until they were naked. To me, far more erotic than the falang performance But not as sleazy I must admit. 2) Happy Boys in Pattaya's Soi Yensabi. On the ground floor, go go performed on individual podia by guys in little skirts like the ones Athenian ephebes may have worn....very tasteful....but on the darkened second floor, no restrictions. I visited once with one of the guys and our discussions on Greek philosphy were interrupted by prolonged groaning and even of the application of, ahem, discipline.

I know all about those....but I'm referring something rather beyond the activities at Nice and so on. But you're right; twenty-seven months and counting since I was in Pattaya! Nil desperandum though; only ten weeks before I'm back!

Mine has been checked only once in eighty visits. I think macaroni is correct....and about UK Immigration too. Much the same at Customs. I've never been checked in Thailand and only once in the UK.

I clearly recall the sleazy Bangkok gay bars of the late nineties, particularly Screw Boys and (as discussed elsewhere) Super A. But from what I have read, you have to go back to the eighties and the original Soi 4 (which pre-dated Soi Twilight) to find that sort of goings-on. Sadly, the participants who could have enlightened us have now mainly passed-on.

It is undoubtedly true that the Gold Old Days were very much for us- that is European/American/Australian gay men. Usually in our fifties and beyond. The entertainment we enjoyed was geared to our tastes. However, this couldn't go on; slowly and inexorably we were dying out and younger gay compatriots weren't interested in our scene. I regret the passing of that time but without the new arrivals, there'd be no Pattaya , and probably not even the remnants of a gay scene which we survivors can still enjoy. Go to Terminus 21 and observe the sky-line. Where are you? not in the Old Pattaya with its girlie bars and ramshackle shops but in a modern Asian city with high rise hotels and condos. They are there for the tourists who have replaced us. Best to enjoy what's left of the old gay scene while it's still there. As I shall do in my quest to grow old as disgracefully as possible.

There was another bar opposite, or at least nearby, that was reckoned by Michael Notcutt in this estimable Thai Scene (my well-thumbed handbook back then) to be a Super A plus. In other words, however sordid Super A was, this neighbour could out-sleaze it. A visit to BKK back then was indeed A Walk on the Wild Side. owned by

Forgive an old man reminiscing....but I went to the original upstairs Super A on my first trip to BKK in 1996. The mamasan gave a signal, the briefs were lowered and the guys started masturbating. All of them. I was the only customer and something of a newbie to the Thai sex scene; embarrassed, I made my excuses and left.

Babylon was welcoming to older guys and there were usually younger (that is under forties rather than twenty-year olds) who were interested in meeting them . Those Thais who weren't went elsewhere, though the fact that it was open early in the afternoon and had a pool was an attraction. It was also expensive for Thais. I recall a few years ago its pool was being renovated and it offered half-price admission. This resulted in many more younger guys going there. It became more than a venue for casual sex. Many older falangs would use the pool for the afternoon and eat in its two restaurants. I suspect that some never ventured into the cruising areas. It also had its own hotel. Its demise has led me to stop spending a couple of days in Bangkok on arrival in Thailand. It was that good.

At your age , you are in with a chance. Good luck. Carpe diem.

With great difficulty. Remember that some families had Isaan roots but moved to other parts of the country for work. I doubt if there are many "pure" (sorry about that word) Isaan guys, even in Isaan. I also quarrel with the suggestion that all Isaan guys are well-endowed. Some are. So are some from the far south are, too. Circumcised ones from Muslim backgrounds. My advice is not to pursue this idea. But it's up to you of course, and others may differ. Thai guys are among the most beautiful in the world. Whatever the size of their appendages!

It's none of my business but I'm about to apply for a Thai Pass...and yes, I know the regulations have changed...but what specifically went wrong with your application in December? any lessons to be learnt?

Two important questions, but they may be too personal so ignore if you want. How old are you? and are you a falang? It makes a big difference. The thing about Babylon which set it apart from many other saunas was that it didn't. Well, not much. By the way, I agree with vinapu. When I first arrived in Bangkok- in the Good Old Days- I maintained that the best-looking guys worked in the menswear department of Robinson's on Silom. Always my first port of call on Day One! of course, many a 7 11 has a cute guy or two even today.

Me too.....and so Londoner became New Londoner. For a few days only! Can't bear to be without this forum , even for a day.

Remember Villa Rouge in Sunee? and K-Boys in Soi VC? Also Bangkok's Screw Boys (in its Soi Twilight manifestation). The Good Old Days!

True....but that girl was well-over six foot . I referred to her as an Amazon but her blonde hair suggested a Viking warrior from that rather good TV series. She'd have eaten some of the go go dancers alive. I left the bar when she climbed up on the stage and started dancing.

And further improvements now that the hated pass is less burdensome. Makes a difference to me, anyway!

Ask the guys. I recall a scene in one bar when rather good-looking six-foot Amazon entered a bar in Pattaya; the guys separated into two groups. Most of them clustered around her, the others shrank into a corner, apparently embarrassed. I know how they felt.

My experience was the same as vinapu's. If someone young was interested in a guy of my age, he was a mb. Yes, yes, I know that miracles do happen in saunas- or used to- but if memory serves, I found that Pattaya's Romeo twinks expected to be paid without my needing to ask.

Thanks. I'm so pleased you enjoyed Chiang Mai and recognised that it "life was returning". It's one of our favourite places, though I prefer Chiang Rai- similar but smaller and less commercialised. It is certainly a city where it's probably best to have a companion. The gay scene was quite something twenty years back but now....well, you were right to have your own entertainment available.

Your guy will be required to leave his ID at the desk. This is for your protection, ensuring both that he is of legal age and that reception can call you when he leaves to ensure nothing has gone wrong.