Londoner

One thing I recall from "Culture Shock Thailand" is that one of the rules of etiquette concerning meals is that it is not considered good manners to gobble-up every scrap that you are offered at dinner since it implies that you are not satisfied with the portions provided. Another one, by the way, is always to take a portion of rice before attacking the meat dishes.

Why do guys of Chinese origin have such beautiful skin? It's true even of ones I've met in London.

Where to live and where to spend my holidays are two very different places. And long may they continue to be so.

Yes. Other forums have suffered from this sort of thing; one of the attractions of this one is that members are respectful of each other even when they disagree. Its "tone" is supportive and informative which is why, I assume, the number of contributions is rising. Racist comments are posted to annoy, not to inform and in this respect , the poster concerned has been successful. I must admit that he annoyed me, anyway. But no more. I have read nothing that corroborates his claim that he lives in Pattaya. Nor have I read anything that is informative or supportive. Accordingly, I am ignoring him henceforward. ' There is a word in common usage to describe this sort of on-line behaviour.

Arabs and Indians buying property in Boyztown? Really? The Indian visitors tend to be relatively short of money and congregate around South Pattaya in groups. Men-only. The Arab guys- not many nowadays- tend to be young and looking to party not to invest.. Blaming Pattay's woes on ethnic groups is silly. It's not the people who are in Pattaya who are the problem but those who don't come anymore, for whatever reason. Pattaya needs to win visitors back, not denigrate those who already there.

It's always been my view that attracting younger Thais to Sansuk would lead to more falangs visitng. When it first opened, younger Thais were admitted free....and falangs , predictably, followed in their wake. This changed when they were asked to pay day's wage for entry. 200 bht is a lot for a young Thai to pay. When we were last there - about three and a half years ago- we noticed the absence of Thais and I remember discussing this with Punya- a gracious host- and giving my views. If he has now decided to widen the intake, good for him. In the long-run it will bring dividends. If I went looking for company, I'd be disheartened by the sight of elderly falangs like me being the only visitors.

Yes, Punya...his deceased falang boyfriend left him a bequest which he used to set-up his own business. He's one of those Thais who look eternally youthful! I'm so pleased he's got Sansuk back on track. The restaurant is appreciated by both of us. We like the Thai food....simple but tasty and good value. It overlooks the pool. We still sometimes go just to eat and enjoy the ambiance. And the swimming pool, of course. The gym is extensive but only one of us enjoys its facilities.

Two things allow me to upgrade to business; firstly, the eight trips missed due to Covid and the money saved and, secondly, the fact that that I'm at an age when I don't know whether I shall be able to manage future ones.

And if so, does this include the restaurant?

Yes, I agree with that: planning well ahead makes sense in all sorts of ways. . When I'm feeling low, there's nothing like booking up a trip to Thailand to raise the spirits. I like to have one "in the bag" when I return to the greyness of London and so have just arranged a second one in March. It means that, when the chill hits me in December when I return from my upcoming one, I can smile grimly and anticipate the next. A stay in Thailand is a pleasure to anticipate, enjoy and recall.

RobinHood should stay in his own country if he doesn't want to mix with people of other cultures. And by the way, his comment is nonsense...I've just been there.

Yes, true. Book early! But comparing March prices with the one I paid for in July and my up-coming November flight, the fact remains that prices are stable.

LHR-BKK on EVA Air Business Class in July, £3000. In November, £3000. In March 2023, £2500. I surmise from this that the hike in prices we experienced recently is over.

This is what P and I did preparing for our November visit to Chiang Mai. The flights from CNX to BKK are plentiful but to U-Tapao, not so. It may have been worth it before Suvanbharmi was built....that extra ninety minutes from Dom Muang to Pattaya were unpleasant.

This should be a salutary reminder to all visitors who enjoy the sex scene to remember that hiv remains a real threat. And that, despite advances in medication and care, it remains a life-long condition with unpredictable implications, as Covid proved.

"Soccer"? may the Good Lord forgive you!

We have something similar here in the UK and I've been exploring the possibility of, as GWMinUS says, "preparing for the inevitable". It is not straightforward: I'd hoped that my solicitor/executor could fulfil that role but it turns out that this is not the case. I'd appreciate some advice, either here or via a PM.

My oldest friend died a year ago aged seventy-five. I was the only person who knew he was gay apart from a few masseurs in Pattaya to whom I almost dragged him. Even there he was uncomfortable. He was close to his brothers but they didn't know- or at least he hadn't told them. Perhaps they worked it out. I have to say that my siblings hadn't worked me out when I was forty -five and gave them the news about my own sexuality. The funeral provided me with an odd sensation, standing around his grave as eulogies were delivered, knowing that a hugely significant fact about him would be interred with his body. It saddens me to think of what he missed. I said to him, time and time again, "Carpe diem." Cancer had the last laugh. But I'm having my own laugh now, preparing for my second trip to Pattaya and P since Covid. With a third one already booked.

I suspect the numbers of new retirees may be dropping. When I considered relocating about fifteen years ago, the UK pound was worth 70 baht; now it hovers around 40. Many expats who arrived a decade or so ago must have felt a serious decline in their living standards. Some may well have left. Others may be struggling. Some falangs, whom I see around Pattaya Tai for example, appear to be experiencing hard times.

No, and Thailand isn't Pattaya. Nor Bangkok. I couldn't live where P does- quite happily- in a farming community with a 7 11 a local market, a temple and nothing else. Even the internet is refractory. And I know , were I to turn this around, P that wouldn't be happy here. His family and his dogs would be far away. As would his friends. And speakers of Thai. The things I love -Chelsea Football Club, classical music and so on- aren't for him. At his age (nearly forty) how easy would it it be to find a new Thai-speaking friend? My company alone isn't that good! Oddly enough, there is a beautiful Thai temple ten miles away in Wimbledon (near the tennis centre). He'd like that! Anyway, we've talked about both possibilities ad nauseam and as long as I'm lucky enough to be to jump on a plane and arrive fifteen hours later in BKK, and he has the means to leave his farm in the hands of his family to join me, why pursue it?

I ask this question in all innocence; are there any gay men who wish to see ladyboy shows? Honestly?

Thanks 12is12. The issue of relocation is a complex one. We've discussed it many times. I'll wait for another thread before explaining.

I tried to provide insights on a number of occasions on different threads but obviously my comments fell on stony ground. And I'm not going to repeat myself. I know three LTR couples, two of them British/Thai, one of them a US citizen. They are similar- 60+ falang/late thirties or early forties Thais. Both parties seems happy to me. If you keep your eyes open, you'll see such couples in the restaurants and malls of Pattaya. You won't confuse them with falangs with offed guys. It works for some of us. Perhaps it shouldn't, but it does. Don't be dismissive of other peoples' experience and other peoples' lives. And don't confuse sex and love. I've enjoyed both in the last twenty-five years visiting Pattaya. and so I don't.

Cost of living, particularly regarding accommodation. Often, this includes transport; most Pattaya guys live within walking distance of their bars in Pattaya and travel can be an issue in Bangkok. Social interaction with friends on the scene. Often the Pattaya guys live close together in certain areas (near Tuc Com, for example) and frequently in the same building. Guys looking for a LTR are more likely to find one in Pattaya, where visitors stay longer. Some of the falangs in BKK are two -nighters on business trips, or are moving onto other Thailand cities.

Nevertheless, JC is the place to be! It is the last outpost for such as I. And, taking into account the fact that I'm no longer in the market, it is vibrant, more than gay-friendly....and fun. I suspect that the twinks of yore do not exist in Pattaya for a variety of social and economic reasons. In the past, large families in rural areas resulted in the youngest children leaving in their late teens to find work. I'm suggesting for one moment that life is easy and that poverty isn't very real, only that social conditions have improved. Helped, of course, by contraception. The young are staying home. As an example, in 2001, P left home for Pattaya and after some other jobs, ended-up in BT. His twenty-one year-old nephew, both gay and cute (a winning combination) is happily living in the same village and with an enormously improved life style. Pad's family didn't even have electricity until 2000.