Londoner

Interested in Buddhism? The Big Buddha temple, with its magnificent view over Pattaya, is only twenty minutes from Jomtien by taxi. It is special place for us because it is where we were given our partnership blessing by the Abbot. Further away (about an hour) is the temple and retirement home for monks called Khao Chi Chan. It has a museum with interesting Buddhist and Chinese artefacts . You can see the face of the Buddha etched into the mountain from miles away.

My partner and I started basing out trips to Thailand in the Jomtien Complex two years before Covid. We like being in an area which is obviously gay and where our presence not unusual....not that we've ever had problems anywhere in Thailand, from Chiang Rai to Krabi. We like our hotel (The Agate) where the staff treat us like old friends. The rooms are clean and simple with excellent beds and bathrooms. Two swimming-pools . We like being able to access the beach easily- about seven minutes walk- though neither of us sit or swim there, preferring to stroll along the esplanade. In the evening it can have an almost Mediterranean vibe. We like the restaurants and recommend Dick's and Sandbar. If you prefer European cuisine, there are classy establishments in or just outside the Compex. We enjoy our evening trips to the malls in Pattaya; the baht bus takes twenty or thirty minutes in the evening. We prefer a taxi back; 300/400 baht. We wouldn't change. We miss the thrill of the old Boyztown but the Complex is often lively and invariably has plenty of handsome guys around. We don't use the bars but we like to be able to walk through and chat and engage with the staff. A host of massage places. The hotel is always quiet and this is very important to us . Safe? in my twenty-five years experience, all of Thailand is safe, though I was once threatened by a pack of soi dogs in Chiang Mai. I love dogs so they allowed me to get away safely! The beach? Mmmm...if you've been to places like the Caribbean , it isn't a paradise; I habitually, pre-Thailand, stayed in Grenada and it sure ain't that! But it is clean and there is a gay area where you can order food and drink. Better, in my view, than Pattaya's but not as good as Krabi. So yes; if like us , you prefer quiet nights and are prepared to make that journey to Boyztown for the scene, and other parts of Pattaya for the malls like the impressive T20 with its one hundred and six restaurants (literally). I believe you'll be happy in the Compex. .

Accommodation is cheaper. And perhaps the mb/punter ratio is more favourable?

I always spent three nights in BKK before moving to Pattaya but it ended for me with the demise of Babylon a few years ago. I find the Pattaya restaurants equally as good, the improved beaches a draw for our walks early morning and early evening, and the more relaxed atmosphere more suitable to our tastes. Which happily coincide. When I was a punter and spent time in both places, I used to argue that the guys in Pattaya were more affectionate and willing, owing to the fact that their market was holiday-makers staying weeks rather than days. This encouraged them to try to make a one-night stand into something longer. This was based, rightly or wrongly, on the presumption that BKK punters tended to stay for shorter periods. But I'm woefully out-of-date. I miss Babylon in both its manifestations. Favoured bars close and new ones open; Babylon was unique. I assume it was another victim of the apps.

Great photos. Thanks.

Coincidentally, i was watching some Pattaya videos on YouTube on Sunday, and my goodness, some of the newest ones were depressing. Expats complaining about over-pricing and the unwarranted strength of the baht, suggesting that the locals aren't so friendly now, that their favoured bars were closing after being targeted by the police....and much else. In general, "things ain't what they used to be", as the song has it. I asked P for his views; he's far away from Pattaya but still has friends there. What's the view of the locals? Nothing has changed, he said. Yes, there are police raids on particular bars that have often caused concern, yes tourism has been disappointing all year and this "Very-Low-Indeed- Season" is crippling some businesses, but his contacts don't share the concerns expressed on YouTube. Jimmie50 makes some perceptive points. I've now postponed and probably cancelled my relocation after due consideration. I never been the sort of person who makes friends easily and it would isolate me from those I have here in the UK. Nor am I sure that my relationship with P would benefit since I am insistent that he should not give up his farm in the north. What those YouTube videos illustrated, whether or not they be representative or accurate, is that life for expats of my generation in Thailand has changed. And , as we have discussed before, Pattaya itself is changing from a sex-tourist paradise into an international resort that wishes to attract Asians, particularly the well-off ones. I am reminded of this when we eat in T21 and look out for north Pattaya from its top floor. The huge new developments and luxury hotels have sprung-up on the locations of the go-go bars along the beach that I remember so well from my unforgettable first view of Pattaya in 1995.

I suspect you are right. There are colloquialisms in English that, when heard in old UK films, seem dated.

Does anyone own a copy of "Thai for Gay Tourists?" it is full of colloquial expressions that may be helpful (or embarrassing) in our encounters. It must have been about fifteen years ago that I bought mine but, as usual, P objected to my using any of the idiomatic phrases. He hates it when I try to speak Thai and so I've learnt to keep quiet. Others may be more successful. Thai for Gay Tourists by S. Pakdeesiam

i tried that and on both occasions the guy didn't turn-up....and I lost heart. No mobiles in those days, by the way. And from then on, it was case of "a bird in the hand is worth two in a bush." I hope our US cousins use that old proverb.

How are places like Soi Cowboy and Pattaya's Soi 6 coping with the drop in tourists? They seem to be open in the afternoons, of course....does that help? I've always felt that one of the advantages the apps have over gay go go bars is that company is available 24/7. I used to hate waiting until 2100 to begin my adventures.

I suspect that in a media-world of dumbing-down, ignorance (or "freshness") is preferred. The cult of the amateur rather than that of the expert. The transformation of BBC Radio 3 in recent years is an example. On the other hand, it may be just me getting old.

Thanks for the warning. I wasn't very hopeful of seeing anything to interest me!

www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episodes/m002jwhg/thailand-the-dark-side-of-paradise Anyone seen it yet?

Like PeterRS, I am years out of date- twenty to be precise- but I can confirm that a dancer who didn't make enough money could lose his job. There was one at Throb, whom P knew, who was relegated from performing on stage to looking after the toilets because he didn't achieve the requisite number of customers! in those days, it was not unusual to feel the hands of a guy gently massaging your back while you were trying to pee at a bar. Yes, trying to in my case; it would always stop me performing! I assume there were possibilities for tips. I recall P being sorry for this guy and giving him some money. In those days, the management in the bars was harsh. A guy I had offed at Funnyboys was sacked after taking too long a holiday back home. I met him again at Dreamboys. Then there was a mamasan in Phuket who was alleged to impose discipline with the use of a schoolteacher's cane. Come to think of it, bearing in mind "la vice anglaise......"

Me too. The first time was in a gogo bar in Phuket...I forget the name. That was in 1996, my first trip there. I can't pretend that the custom was still common when I retired from the scene twenty years ago, at least I don't recall it occurring more than a couple of times in Pattaya. From what I've read on this site, the guys would expect 1000 bht notes now! Back in the day, many of them were often not far from the breadline and so a a few hundred baht would have been very welcome.

Not more roadworks! Where does the baht bus actually go on its way to Jomtien?

When I'm being driven through South Pattaya, I cannot help thinking of all those poor women back home in India looking after the children. The only time I've seen one was in T21. With her kids. Now, when it comes to the men, I'm absolutely certain I've never seen one on his own, and rarely in a duo.

Learn from my experiences as previously described.

I agree about the Golden Tiger Temple but there are other non-ocean trips worth seeing within easy-driving distance including some allegedly healthy hot springs.. As far as the islands are concerned, vinapu is correct; they are certainly over-crowded and, as we found one rainy season, inaccessible if the weather isn't perfect.

We went to Krabi on number of occasions pre-Covid. And we loved it. However, a standing -joke between us (one which only Britons will understand) is that we were "the only gays in the village." However, on the final occasion, we did see one couple similar to us in Aonang. There was no sign of any gay bars though we weren't looking for any. I think there was a soi with lady-bars near the beach. The boat trips were fun- the usual island ones, but very unusually, for Thailand, we didn't feel as comfortable as we usually do. Not Thais, I hasten to add, but some falang passengers. However the hotels we tried- Golden Beach and Aonang Villas (cheap off-season prices at the latter facilitated this) made us the very welcome. If you make your own amusement, I recommend Krabi. But not, by the way, in the rainy season.

One of the things I discovered thirty years ago in my first visit was that performance trumps looks and that older guys are more likely to know their arts and crafts than younger ones.

Agate's rooms are much cheaper if you book direct and the management of the hotel very efficient.

So we can expect the "Not So Fast Track As It Used To Be" to continue in its present form. The one that has added twenty or so minutes to my journey time. Never mind.

Yes, that's the fear. I'm assuming a whole year. I've established an account (Bangkok Bank) to "see him through" this period. Under his name, of course. Thanks for the reminder; neither of us have had any experience. You are right; we're talking about a lot of money. It's something I must look into.

Briefly, mainly for reasons I relate on another topic, this has not been our most successful stay. Or, at least the first two weeks of it haven't. Neither of us are party animals, and neither of us enjoy the crowds and the general merriment of a Songkran-type of stay. However, my goodness, Jomtien has been quiet. I walked through the bar sois a couple of days ago; the usual cheerful, hopeful guys doing their best (God bless them) but few visitors.... though admittedly it was early in the evening. My morning walks along the beach approach the solitary. Most telling of all, we never have to queue in 711! And the hotel? according to our charming cleaner from Laos, only 20% occupancy. We sometimes have the breakfast room to ourselves. T21 had more life last night (a quick "call-out" for Poon Thai restaurant on Level 3) but overall, the atmosphere has "got to me" this holiday. And I've had many Low Season stays over the years.