Londoner

My reading was that it was celebrating "the love that dare not speak its name...." That is, inter-generational and inter-racial, while recognising how impoverished in terms of physical and emotional comfort some elderly people feel in the West. Or perhaps that's reading too much in to it. It just made me smile.

Yes,floridabob, yes , yes.... I post this with a smile on my face because this time next week I'll be there.

There are many Russians in Jomtien. On my list visit I entered a Jomtien Complex Estate Agents' office in my (so far unfulfilled) efforts to find us a suitable home in the area. To my surprise, it was Russian and its clientele was potential Russian ex-pats. The manager claimed he could build us a villa to our requirements in Jomtien; there must be big business in that market. How things change. Our first visit was six years ago and Agate's clientele then included many Chinese tour parties. Bizarrely, their coaches would arrive in the late evening and depart in the morning. One-nighters, it seemed. None of this bothers me; live and let live. As long as P and I can stroll into breakfast holding hands, as is our wont being deeply sentimental, I couldn't care less. There are always plenty of gay guests and many of the staff are gay. Agate has the friendliest and most helpful staff we've encountered in Thailand in hotels stretching from Chiang Rai to Krabi. I suppose I should add that wherever we go in Thailand, hotel staffs treat our rather Odd Couple with respect.

I believe that the above is word-for-word what was in the FCO advice fifteen years ago. We, and even more so, US travellers are very fortunate that repercussions from our respective governments' appalling behaviour are so rare. Anywhere. I remember sitting in Chiang Mai Airport in 2003 and seeing a news bulletin on the departure lounge TV. it showed British troops- the Royal Marines- attacking a group of Iraqi youngsters, blindfolding and handcuffing them. One child was so frightened that his whole body was shaking in terror. I was profoundly upset, almost in tears, and ashamed. So much so that a Buddhist monk came to sit with me to comfort me. I count myself lucky to have travelled all over the world and found so many friends at the same time that the UK has made so many enemies.

I'd be interested to know why you were "talked to" at Immigration. UK or Thai? I'm a little older than you and "started" back in 1995 As I age, as disgracefully as possible, Thailand becomes more, not less important to me. Our generation may have discovered it relatively late in our lives but, my goodness, have we not squeezed every ounce of sanuk (fun) out of our trips?

Google has just led me to various unofficial, money-making sites. Beware.

True. On the other hand, the MBs themselves didn't regard themselves as professionals, in the sense that guys at Blue Boy in Amsterdam and similar European places perhaps did years ago. Maybe things have changed drastically in the past couple of decades- admittedly possible with the advent of non-Thais - but the ones I knew tended to be short-term practitioners of their arts, there in Pattaya to make money quickly and , if possible, meet the "right" falang partner. And if unsuccessful, to try something else or return to their Isaan farms. Some were undoubtedly "professional" in the sense of being good at their job, but I suspect that most would regard themselves as amateurs because their lives weren't defined by their current employment. I should add that my interest and experience was with twinks; I expect there were older guys around who had different views and aspirations.

Is there something wrong with me? If I'm out on my own, even if it's just crossing the road to 711, I love being accosted by a cute guy....a chat, a smile, a goodbye and I feel fifty years younger.

I should add another positive about the beachfront. Instead of Pattaya' s ladies of the night, punters and (particularly now) PC Plod clearing them off, Jomtien's beachfront, at least near the gay area, also has the spectacle of the women's dance/fitness "performances". These occasionally include older male falangs. Bravely and (sorry!) hilariously. After all, "white men can't dance". At least, I can't. However, a couple of months ago I saw a white guy in his forties or so whose dancing was far better than most of the women and girls. "Well-done, Sir" , as my father used to say. If you want a different sort of dancing, three hundred yards away are the Sunee dancers performing in the soi. So cute. Our restaurant is "Sandbar", not "Sandbanks", which is the millionaires' settlement on the Dorset coast. A monument, it is alleged, to Trumpian vulgarity and conspicuous wealth.

Agreed. One extra benefit, sometimes forgotten, is the beachfront of Jomtien in the evenings. Lots of Thai families, a couple of good restaurants (we like Sandbanks), a relaxed, almost Mediterranean atmosphere.... a pleasant after- dinner walk. Watch the sunset there.

I'm intrigued by the Covid vaccine issue. I remember a long queue in Pattaya Royal Garden as residents received theirs just after the reopening , and yet today- as far as I can discern from P- there are no nationwide campaigns. Here in the UK, I had my sixth vaccination a few weeks back.. P is annoyingly complacent about it. He's only had two and I've nagged and nagged to no avail. I thought he would receive advice when he went for a routine appointment at his hospital on Sunday....but no; not an issue. At least he wore a mask. Which reminds me to ask whether masks are once again de rigueur among Thais again? Seldom seen in London.

I was referencing Trump. One of his immortal pearls of wisdom.

No problem; do 711s stock bleach?

"Say it ain't so Joe...." Even those of us who feel that they are in a loving LTR have to accept reality. Does it matter? Hetero marriages were often financially- arranged until relatively recent times. They still are in some cultures. Mai pen rai.

Where are Chinese tourists going to instead of Thailand? or are they staying at home?

Perhaps this is a little "off thread" but I've just been thinking about "rent- boys I have known and their "beats". The UK, Holland, Germany, Spain, The Gambia, Egypt (sort-of) and Morocco (nearly!) have all been tested. And Thailand, of course, is the easy winner by a country-mile.

Were it not for a rent-boy in London thirty year ago I would still be a gay virgin. I would never have summoned-up the courage to meet anyone without that experience. Two of my friends, whom I knew to be secretly gay, actually did die celibate, one for religious reasons, the out of fear of his sexuality being discovered.

An interesting story relating to the Thai/Chinese relationship has just appeared. https://www.independent.co.uk/asia/southeast-asia/thailand-russian-tourist-viral-video-park-ranger-b2737954.html

I faced this problem occasionally when I was butterflying. Fortunately in "my day" there were plenty of bars ( l'm talking about Pattaya) and no shortage of guys, so if i felt uncomfortable I wouldn't lose out on company. I agree with those who say "tread carefully." If a guy is short of money and sees another dancer chosen by a falang he'd had hopes for owing to a previous "off", he may well react with anger towards his fellow employee. Right or wrong, the guys were (probably still are) in competition. If they see someone else stealing (as it were ) their meal ticket, problems can accrue for both mb and client. Nevertheless, I often saw dancers being very supportive of each other. I have a painful memory- because I come out of it badly- of being in Cockpit and a group of dancers coming to me to ask me to "off" a particular guy. He wasn't attracting customers and had been told by the mamasan that if he failed tonight he'd be sacked. What made this more sad was that he was deaf and so it wasn't so easy for him to relate to punters. I said no because I didn't fancy him. And the fact that I can remember this from nearly thirty years ago illustrates how bad I felt about it afterwards.

Thank you for your posts. I hope others found them as informative as I did. I should like to add three issues to the discussion. Firstly, the belief in the transmigration of the soul. I mentioned some time ago how my partner interpreted our first meeting, claiming that we'd met in a previous life, and how that affected our relationship.. Secondly, a distinctive view of duty of the young towards elders and parents , as expressed by the Thai word "gentanyu". This perhaps influences intergenerational relationships, of which there seem to be many compared to within Western cultures. Thirdly- and this has a relevance to gay relationships and sexual identity as mentioned by previous posters- is the contrast between Eastern and Western religions. The three Abrahamic faiths tend to celebrate the soldier, the crusader, the physically strong. Even Christianity which, once it became an institution, quickly abandoned the pacifism of the New Testament and replaced it with the need to be "a soldier for Christ", "a soldier of the Cross", "a crusader". There is no such requirement in Hinduism or Buddhism, no desire to evangelise, to conquer non-believers (taking their land wherever possible!); in short to be "manly". Instead, the "feminine" virtues of love and tenderness, even beauty, are encouraged. Of course, we can ask how much of this is cultural rather than specifically Buddhist. I write not as an expert but as an observer.

Following an interesting discussion on the "wai", I wonder if posters have any thoughts about, or even knowledge of the Buddhist beliefs held by the Thais they meet casually or with whom they are in LTRs? Do such beliefs impinge on our relationships in any ways? And are there aspects about which we non-Buddhists should be aware and tread carefully?

Me too. The basil is too hot for me. When P orders it, he has to eat it all on his own. Perhaps that's why he likes it so much.

The only time I "wai-ed" was when I met P's parents for the first time. He had spent an hour or so explaining its intracises to ensure that I got the angles right. He was runner- up in the Kamphaeng Phaet District School Wai completion when he was a teenager, so I believe him to be an expert. "Wai competition"? Yes; a reminder of how significant it is in Thai culture. I recall that another surprising inter-school competition back then was one for ladyboys. What a strange place rural Thailand is (or was) for us foreigners! Things have changed; or at least some things have.

No closer, I fear, than I was in my previous posts. I had the chance to consider some properties in Jomtien. Beautiful and costing only 30% of my recently valued house. Do the maths! Huge (by London standards) , lavishly-furnished (too much so for my taste, sometimes!) but- and here's the rub- few available in the locations I want. Nong Prue has many but is too far from the sea. Na Jomtien also has some but there is so much work going on there that it is not the sort of environment we want. And it has transport issues....I want to give-up driving. I'm back there in three months and am being contacted by estate agents daily. So who knows? One thing is certain, I want to relocate and P wants me to relocate, but I am content enough in london to stay here, enjoying three visits a year with my to stay with my beloved. I thought about colmx's idea of buying a bolt-hole....however, it couldn't be in London. A one bedroom apartment here costs the same as a three bedroom villa in Jomtien. And that's not in Chelsea or Mayfair. One of the major benefits of relocation is the money I would have left in the bank to enjoy with P. Which brings me to a forgotten word of advice; if you are going to struggle financially, do do in your home country!

Good advice. I am in the process of deciding whether to go ahead with my proposed relocation. I'd hoped that my last few weeks in Jomtien would have given me an answer; but no, they didn't, serving only to raise more issues.. And unlike the poster, I have thirty years of visits and a LTR of twenty years to help me make a decision, not forgetting the massive financial benefits I'd reap by selling my London house. For a UK citizen of my age, the decision to relocate would be the most significant by far since I retired; and if I were to go ahead, there'd be no returning home if things went pear-shaped for financial reasons. Medical issues? even more vIsa changes? banking? another coup and nationalist government in Thailand unfriendly to foreigners? Yes, unlikely but possible. The fact is that if I move to Thailand, I die in Thailand. What became clear a few weeks ago, is that location is one of the most important issues. Jomtien is our preferred location but not anywhere in the vicinity. There are areas that would not be suitable, too far from the sea, isolated in terms of transport, or too "new" and undergoing construction to be to attractive us. So my advice is to do what I am doing; take your time and, for heaven's sake, make a trial run for few months. Not as a tourist but as a resident. Not in a hotel but in a rented condo where you have to look after yourself and sort out your own problems.