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It's time... When I wake up it's mid-morning (10am-ish) and it's my last day. I make some tea and start sorting through my receipts, then checking email. Van wakes shortly afterwards and from the comfort of the bed watches me pack. This is a fairly easy pack as my only purchases were some shirts in Pattaya and some more in Bangkok. I leave room for some workout shirts from a vendor on Silom near Nakarat. I've been bargaining for two nights now as I walk by. The price last night was acceptable but I didn't wanl to carry anything. I talk with Van about today. He is off - actually, I'm offing him. He tells me how much to give him, which is less than if I went into the club and paid the fee. I ask if there's anything he'd like to do and get the programmed "it's up to you". I suggest we go out in a couple of hours and ask him to trust me. I shave and get into the shower, he joins me. It's a gentle way to begin to say goodbye. Around two we head out and walk to Sathorn...Van is surprised as we haven't walked this way before. He asks if we are going to the BTS and I answer "yes, but, no". I'm using he station walkways to cross over the traffic. Once across, we are at the MahaNakhon plaza...the King Power Tower plaza. Last night, Reader and I speculated on what it would be like to bring some of the guys we like up to the rooftop...speculation inspired by DivineMadman's doing just that. The answer to the speculation - surprise, joy, excitement, amazement...we did go out on the glass floor once the blue booties had been attached to out feet. It was no where near as crowded as the night before. Yes, it was hot under the mid day sun but it had it's own charms. We stayed somewhat more than an hour and then did the trip through the multi-level duty free shopping. We walked back via Silom to the hotel where we hung out. Around 6:30 we headed over to Twilight so that Van could pay his off fee. This gave me an opportunity to say good bye to Pau and the other waiters at Maxi's. The Asian gentleman with a fondness for the massage staff across from Maxi's was already in place , tonight with 4 of the guys. Good for him, good for them, and great business for Maxi's. Everyone wins! Van and I have a drink (he has lemon tea) at Maxi's. I leave goodly tips for the waiters and the bartender, give a 100 baht to the Hot Male grabbers - and we head out. I pick up the workout shirts from the street vendor, I mentioned. Back at the hotel, I finish packing, giving all the remaining toiletries to Van, I give him some baht for his time. The baht are in an envelope. He doesn't open it, just puts it in his wallet and that goes into his backpack. It's now about midnight and time to go to the airport. When I booked my ticket, I was most interested in when I'd arrive so I could get to Pattaya in time for some interpersonal interaction (!) and as to a return, I need to be back on Saturday, December 1st. My return isn't through Tokyo - my usual routing, but via Hong Kong and Hong Kong Airlines from BKK to HK. It's always a mess at the Hong Kong Kong Airlines checkin...so in addition to the flight being earlier than ANA, I do need extra time...sort of a long explanation for why I'm heading out from the city as the clock strikes 12. Saying goodbye..we've done this a dozen times, but, this time is a bit more difficult... Van waves goodbye as the taxi pulls out and passes him. I make the airport, long wait to check in...Hong Kong Airlines is not a Star Alliance partner so no priority line. Bags checked through to San Francisco. Security and Immigrations go quickly, I board the plane, and fall asleep before boarding is complete, and wake up when the plane touches down in Hong Kong. Good thing I slept then as my United flight to California was 100% full and I slept very little. While in Hong Kong, I "Lined" to Max, Sophy, and Nuguyen and chatted with each. Van and I use We Chat and he had messaged me while was asleep on the plane. Clearly, I'm struggling with saying goodbye to so many good guys. (that may also be why this report has taken so long to publish). Home...and six weeks later I'm still thinking about the trip, the highs, the lows, the guys stay in touch, Max changing his screen name every week (Max, Maximum, Maxx...!), Van still working to pay off his debts, etc. etc. Me...I'm reading Spoon's report which is incredibly good and reminding me that I should be beginning to plan another visit to the Land of Smiles Thanks for reading, commenting, pm-ing, and all that sort of thing.

Wednesday - Hanging Out When Van returned, I woke up and we sat and talked and looked out of the windows at the light in the Bangkok night. He talked more about his family and how he had been cheated in his attempt to set up a business back in Vietnam. I didn't consider this, as some might, as a way to ask me for money to help get him out of his trouble. We had talked about compensation for his time this visit in advance of out meeting up a week ago. I believe he needed to talk and my ears were in working order. When we finally went to bed, he held me close for a long time. We woke around noon - unheard of time for me. After our shower, I was scrapping the plantar calluses that seem to haunt me especially when I am doing a lot of walking which is the case this past week, five to six miles a day. Van showed me that he had a callus on one of his feet. As nothing was planned for the day, I suggested lunch and a trip to MBK. Lunch was at the Vietnamese restaurant in the Silom Complex. At MBK, I introduced Van to the Red Nails shop where each visit I get a pedicure that scrape my feet. Van said he wait, I said he should have one. After some discussion, he agreed. When the process began he had a "deer in the headlights look". By the end - he was happy with the experience. From there we went bowling upstairs - neither of us is any good at this sport but are good at making fun of our lack of skill. On our way out, we headed for the BTS through Tokyu, the Japanese department store. Several times this trip, I'd offered to buy Van some clothes, but he either declined or didn't see anything he wanted. In the Tokyu men's department he asked me to look at a gray track suit and could he try it on which he did. Looks great on him. Price was reasonable (a little less than 2000 baht). From there we went to Siam Paragon. I checked out Uniqlo for some socks. From there we went to the Paragon men's store area when I had the opportunity to supply him with his work clothing...i.e. white briefs for his Freshboys on stage time. We went back to Bandara, he tried on his new clothes and gave me a version of his work in stage attire. We decided to go to the hot tub and relax as the sun was setting. The pool view isn't much- just the next building, but it was refreshing. The we hung out in the room as he played video games and I caught up on my accounts, email, and the news. We then went out to dinner (MK) and on to Moonlight. Every visit, I can see small improvements that enhance this top of the line venue. I let the mamasan know that we are not looking for anything but the show. This is a night where Van isn't going to recommend anyone - though he introduces me to two boys from the rotation he's work with in other clubs. The show has been discussed in the Forum and I won't add anything other than to note Babe looked fantastic tonight. After the show finished we walked back to Bandara and entertained ourselves. Thursday - playing the tourist Back at home, folks know that I visit Thailand on a regular basis. I talk up Thailand and encourage people to visit. My enthusiasm came back at me as a husband and wife I volunteer with are in Thailand. Before I left California, I'd sat down with them as made suggestions on the plans they'd made for their trip to Cambodia and Thailand. I'd promised to meet them today at the Everest Tailor and then go on to the Grand Palace where I'd hand them off to a guide who used to work in the palace. This guide is one tough cookie - she corrects the Chinese tourists using her voice that is a raspy foghorn. She's direct about where to stand for the best photo, she guards shoes while in temple spaces, and knows who from the ground crew will see entrance tickets so there's no waiting in line. The tailor goes well, my shirts are ready, and the shop will send them to the hotel. The couple meets me there, the wife wants the husband to get a suit or jacket and slcacks, he doesn't want anything. They settle on ordering some shirts. They tell me about their trip and how much they liked Chiang Mai. We have lunch at Mango Tree and head to the Palace. The guide is waiting, I say good bye, and they enter...I'll see them this weekend and learn how it went. I head back to Silom and walk to the Pilot Pen store. I like one of Pilot's brand of pens which I can't get at home. Alas, the building, which is across SIlom from the hospital, is being renovated and I don't see that the store is closed until I go into the building. In August, the store was functioning during the renovation. One of the women who worked in the shop in working upstairs at the Pilot office was getting out of the elevator and, to my surprise, recognized me, and apologized that the shop was closed but would be open for my next visit. Lesson: shoppers are recognized and frequency of shopping is noted. I walked back to Bandara and change and walk to the King Power Tower to meet Reader and Divine Madman for our sunset visit. I've written this up in my August report and others have also reported on the view, the building, the elevator, and the three level duty free shop so I'll only note than when we left we were ushered out via the restaurant on the courtyard as the main entrance was closed in anticipation of one of the Royal Family (one of the Princesses) arriving. Divine Madman, Reader, and I walked to Surawong considering places to have dinner. We eventually got to Maxi's and settled in and talked part of the night away. I said my goodbyes to these two very great guys. We toasted PaulSF who initially brought us together. Van saw us and waved from the stage. At some point out group broke up and I went back to the hotel and had a moonlight swim in the pool. I then went to bed until Van came in and work me up with an offer that I didn't refuse.

I couldn’t make it work around other commitments.

Tourist Tuesday Van and I both wake up later than usual (for me). We shower together and order room service. I am going with my friend from yesterday to do some more touring. Van will hang out in the room and then he is planning to head out and get an extra long work out and will see me at Maxi's. He has the day off tomorrow and we plan to hang out...which translates into enjoying doing nothing. My friend arrives and we go to Wat Pho. There is a light rain but it's the refreshing for walking kind of rain. We do the tourist thing of trying to photograph the reclining Buddha. We then headed to Museum Siam (200 baht entrance). It's arranged to set Thai scenes on a cultural level - April's Songkran has its own moment! We then take a break for a coffee and snack on the flower market. From there we head to Lumpini, the weather is cool. The Thai Armed Forces are having a recruitment day/event/festival. One can target shoot with the Thai rangers, be chatted up by the Marines, the women's divisions are there encouraging signups. The officers' wives are selling things they have made to support military charities. I am fascinated by the internal competition among the services. After about an hour of wandering around, we leave the park and split up. I head back to the hotel. Van arrives within a few minutes from his workout. He makes tea for us - this is his way of wanting to take care of me...there is a forum topic on this natural tendency among the guys. It's taken some time for me to get used to it. Van tells me he wants to be with me the night I leave for the whole night, so we agree that he'll be off tomorrow (his day off) and I'll off him on Friday. Thursday, he'll work. A Forum member PM'd me as to whether or not Van and I talk about his work, his offs, his "patrons". Answer is "not this trip". When I first knew him, I'd ask but he is very discreet. This isn't a barrier to the guys talking amongst themselves. He tells me about some of the other guys, warning me about guys who are reluctant to perform for clients, who sow off their gifts (suspect he's is one of these). We take a bed bread and then a shower We walk together to Twilight. He has a drink with me at Maxi's and he and Pau share some information. Van goes to work, Reader arrives with a young friend (I think I met him on an earlier visit), Reader guides me to understanding this is not the case and I'm thinking of someone else. His friend doesn't catch on to my mistake. DivineMadman arrives and we firm up the plans to meet up at the KingPower tower on Thursday around sunset. Not sure how it happened, but at some point this trip a lower front tooth has loosened. On the walk to Twilight from the hotel, I've been passing a multiplicity of clinics for implants and cosmetic dentistry. I mention this duirng our conversation, DivineMadman is a wealth of knowledge as he has a local dentist and if familiar with what's involved with implants. If that's what I need, the cost in Thailand would be much less than at home...with the caveat that I'd need to be in Thailand for six weeks of follow up care. So it's a wash financially. I've put this into my report - which I doubt anyone is interested in as one of the reasons that this report is so slow in being finished, like having a tooth pulled, is that's exactly what's been going on. I had a tooth extracted two days ago, now waiting on a temporary, then more work. Back to Tuesday night at Maxi's...I mentioned earlier, that I'd observed a Japanese gentleman have a massage at Bangkok Massage, then I observed him with the boy at Maxi's. Tonight, he is there with two of the Bangkok Massage boys treating them to food and drink, he has also begun entertaining the youngest o Maxi's waiters. Out three some breaks up in time for me to head over to Jupiter. I arrived only a few minutes before show time and am seated near the wall to the right of the stage. Show is pretty much the same as in August. Given the number of women in the audience (20%) and how the performers tend to keep their privates covered, it sort of a big tease show...that's fine as it's not trying to be anything else. It's actually a candy store as the level of attractive on stage is high. I'm asked if I want to off anyone, I'm tempted, but just stay to the end of the show, then back to Bandara.

Maybe...maybe more LGBTQ tourist outreach...maybe an election...

Add my two cents (baht) to this topic...before Rentboy was closed down, I had a couple of good encounters and one horrible one - he'd taken on several tattoos, was being evicted by his hotel (his choice for out meeting place), and he had performance issues. The hotel security arriving to evict saved me, oh more accurately, my $$. In London I use Sleepyboy and have been happy with the offs. On last two Thailand trips, Planet Romeo has worked well. In one case we met at a coffee shop, the other in my room.

Again, a great report...thanks

This is such a concise statement that it should be in the Timeless Forum.

Might be a relief to farangs who get talked into buying phones for the boys who like shopping

Very true...one criteria I use is to see if there is something unique in a mall - so at Iconsiam, the lower level village shop/food court area is a draw.

Weekend in Bangkok - continued Van texted that he was heading to the hotel and would stop at Foodland to pickup some water. When he got to the room, we had some tea and talked about the next few days and when he was off, I told him that I would off him on Friday, my last night in town. He has Wednesday off from Freshboys. While I dont ask him about work or any offs he mgiht be getting, I did ask about business and he indicate it was just so so but picking up. He's pretty sure he'll remain in Bangkok over Tet as its a busy time in Twilight and he needed to make money to pay his debts. We took a shower together and after a brief bed encounter, Van watched a movie as I went to sleep. Sunday, we both were able to function by 9 and after a quick breakfast in the room headed out to Chatuchak. We took a taxi there and were let out an entrance further away from the BTS station and it took us a few minutes to reorient ourselves. I told Van that he was welcome to shop. I usually take the Chatuchak stop as the opportunity to get souvenirs for holiday giving. At the end of a couple of hours, I'd managed to spend 200 thb on soaps. Van found a T-shirt. Spent time watching people and listening to the bargaining going on. We headed back and picked up some street food for lunch. Van was going to workout in the Lumpini with some of his fellow go go boys. Their gym time! I thought about Senso, which was open after its sudden closure...but decided that 2 hours of Thai massage at Prime was a better bet for me. And it was... Tonight, the plan is to meet Reader at Maxi's and hang out a bit with DivineMadman who is back in town. So, I dead over to Maxi's, chat up the Hot Male grabbers as I see Pau waiting for me at Maxi's. I tell him DivineMadman will be with us and Pau tells me he will get his wine ready for him. Van stops by on his way to work, he isn't bringing any sample boy tonight, just himself. Reader's bar boy friend from X-Boys comes over as he knows Van and I buy both drinks. DivineMadman arrives - it's good to see him again and we start to catch up. I mention to Van that I'd like to go to Iconsiam tomorrow; he and the bar boy leave for work. Reader arrives with a friend and we settle in to share what's been happening in our lives and to be updated on massage places by DivineMadman. Reader also is an adept in this topic - so I listen, learn, and take mental notes. Time flies by and its getting to be show times, Reader is hading out with his friend for their activities and I want to see a show, so the group breaks up to meet again. Divine Madman mentions before we go out separate ways that MahaNakon - the King Power Tower has opened its skydeck. I need an explanation of what that was and after being educated that the MahaNakon was the tallest building in Bangkok, the one that looks it's had sections chewed away, has opened its rooftop viewing area and skybar. It's called the King Power tower as the duty free monopoly bought the building. We agree to go Wednesday around sunset. I head out of Twilight but am stopped by the Hot Male grabbers who want me to see the HM show. I'm not very resistant as I usually stop at HM on each visit. So, I'm escorted upstairs and greeted as a familiar face by the mamsans and seated center in the 3rd row. One of the boys, I know from last visit, comes over and sits down wrapping himself around me as he does. There are maybe a dozen or so customers, four of whom are female, the others are mainly Asian, I am one of two farangs. Mamsans want to catch up on where I've been, they start filling me in on the boys as the show starts. More customers arrive, mix of 75% men and 25% women. Show is better staged than in August, while HM and Moonlight have the same owner, Moonlight has a better choreographer. HM is a bit more hardcore, lots of nakedness in the room. I'm aske if I like any of the boys, there are a couple that interest me, one in particular who has a handsome face and a body designed by the Bel-Ami porn studio. Once he is off the stage, one of the mamasans has him next to me. He looks better close up! Once we start talking, I remember I was interested in him in August but was put off by his voice which is high pitched. The voice hasn't changed but I appreciate the package and negotiate. I know what he is willing to do from the boy who had greeted me when I walked into HM who was sitting with me during the show. I confirmed with my selection, Kye, paid for a lot of drinks, and headed out...he was ok wth walking to Bandara, though I offered to get a tuk tuk. Once in the room, it was a relaxing experience. He is a fine specimen of go go boy. He did use him mouth but not to speak. Shower afterwards, I offer to pay for a taxi and so add 100 thb to the short time fee. It's about midnight, I fall asleep watching some television and wake when Van comes in. He's knows how my Twilight evening went and who came back to the hotel. No secrets. Iconsiam Day During the night, Van has mummified himself with the comforter and managed to become a pretzel. I pushed back all night, so I do have some space this morning. I get up and shower, he is up shortly after me (!). We decide to order breakfast from room service, and fairly quickly it arrives. Van has some congee and additional fruit. I go full farang and have eggs Benedict. We are each happy with breakfast. A Thai friend of mine has volunteered to show us Iconsiam and while we wait for him we take a shower together. Van tells me he doesn't like the hair on my back and wants to shave it. I say maybe later. Friend arrives and we head out by taxi. The hotel wants its guests to have the doorman radio to the guard the street entrance to get a taxi and asks guest not to get one from the lineup on the street. This takes a few minutes and my friend doesn't understand, I admit I don't either but go along to go along. Eventually, one arrives and my friend gives directions to a pier where there is an Iconsiam boat. He's already checked to see what traffic is like and thinks staying in the taxi would take longer - which is what I was told by others. All this works...taxi to pier, pier directly across from Iconsiam. There is a whole string of boats coming and going to the complex's dock. My friend tells me that one of the buildings in the complex is the tallest building in Bangkok. I tell him that the King Power Tower was the tallest. He pulls out his phone - result Iconsiam complex has the tallest - by TWO METERS! It's another very hot day and being on the river was cooling but the expanse of concrete and metal on the plaza radiated the sun and gave a reson to get inside for the air conditioning. Following the Siam Paragon model, lower level is a food area, next floors are shops - upscale, the museum floor and the movie theatre area area were still under construction. This is the location of Thailand's first Apple Store that's operated by Apple. It's somewhat similar to the Apple store overlooking Union Square in San Francisco. Not that many customers which is a surprise as there were many boats depositing many people. As we walked around the mall the lack of patrons was noticeable as were the prices. This is a mall for the Siam Paragon crowd. But where did all the people go? We found them - a crowd of them -when we went down to the lower level to check out the food area...this is one area that is superior to Siam Paragon. Several separate areas, the most intriguing is a section of Thai eateries designed as a gourmet street food experience in a village along a river, side by side with shops selling traditional (upscale) Thai goods I was impressed as were my friend and Van. It was close to 1pm and Van had a workout scheduled for 2:30, so took a taxi from the complex to M.K. for a quick lunch so that Van would have time to digest his meal. I say goodbye to him and adjourn to a Starbucks with my friend to catch up. He teaches dance at a ballet company in Bangkok and lives with one of the ballerinas. So he's not interested in a visit to Arena or Prime... So we catch up. I LINE message N1 to see if he will be working tonight. Yes. I'll pick you up by 9. OK. So to be concise...here is a quick report on the rest of the night...Maxi's...drink with Van...Screwboys, - no drink - off N1 who is already dressed...hotel..short time...N1 leaves...Van returns. On to Tuesday....

At one point, The Raya wanted "guests" to stop by the desk so the staff could make a photocopy of the identification. That was for the hotel's protection in meeting certain requirements. The identification went back to the guest before he came to the room. No call when they left as no need to stop to get identification. In August, the need to leave a photocopy wasn't insisted upon. The Poseidon in Pattaya does take the ID and does call upon departure.

I agree that is the standard way to spell " Nguyen" - but, for whatever reason that's how N1 spells it on LINE, so I went with that and didn't change for N2 as it was already confusing.

Thanks, Finnseventy for the the update for me on Siam Next Fashion, and your interaction with Mr Singh. He gave me all the same reasons for not wanting to bargain.

DivineMadman is one the Forum's wise sages -

Weekend in Bangkok I'm up early and Van won't be up for a while. We had sort of thought of going to Chatuchak market but by the time he'll be up and we get going it will be mid-day and the temperature will be in the mid 30s...not going to happen. I repeat my morning swim and when I return, Van is up. He suggests a bath together as the tub in the suite is roomy. I approve of his suggestion and we enjoy ourselves. Best bath I've had in many a month/year. We head out to MBK, once there we eat in the international food area where he indulges in some massive shrimp dish. Then we go upstairs and go bowling...this is a joint comedy routine as we are each very bad at bowling. But we have fun. The day is wearing on and Nuguyen is due this evening, I show Van his photo in the Screwboys as in Thai Puan. Van knows him only slightly and approves. This is a case taht without the approval, I'd still be seeing Nuguyen. While we're at MBK, I ask Van if there's anything he'd like or needs. He said wait until we get to Chatuchak tomorrow. We head back to the hotel, he grabs his stuff for work and heads out. Nuguyen has send me several text to confirm the time and the location of Bandara Suites. I expect him around 7. So, let's pause here, and go back two years and a few months to a visit of mine to Bangkok. I was at the Tarntawan prior to leaving for Laos to visit Vientiane and Luang Prabang. I'd arranged to see Van when I returned the next week. As it was late I went off to Screwboys. Long story shortened, I liked the look of one guy, he sat down, he answered all the questions, we left (after paying all the appropriate fees). This is one of those times where the mamasan and the guy did not exaggerate when asked about activities. This was how I met Nuguyen, we had an incredible time and he stayed thguh to breakfast. While I was in Laos, I received a daily erotic photo from him. It was during that trip, that Rama IX died. All sorts of things went off planned rails and our planned meet up when I returned before Van arrived didn't/couldn't/wouldn't happen. Alas for me. There is another story related to this that I wrote up in a report last year...but I'll get to that a bit later as its a story where the joke is on me. Nuguyen arrives. As handsome as a remember but now very stylishly dressed. Last time he wore a Screwboys tee shirt. We talk in the room for a while and then go to the other bandara building where the restaurant is located. We both have salmon. Nothing special about the meal. We head back to the room, sit on the sofa and watch the lights of Bangkok. Nuguyen is one who likes a bit of romance with his off time (note this is understood by both of us to be a money boy moment). In bed he is less wild than 2 years ago but a very slow and elegant lover. He tells me that he hasn't cum in three days and as proof his ejaculation covered most of my chest with some splashing on my face and around the bed. Mine was a piddle compared to his...we embraced and fell asleep for a bit. Then we cleaned up and took a long shower together. When he left we agreed to meet again on this visit. I was spent physically so I decided just to stay in the room and read, listen to music, think...I sent a test to Van telling him I'd be in the room. Now to digress a bit and go back in time to my visit the following February to Bangkok after the death of Rama IX and the missed connection with Nuguyen. I was staying at The Raya with Van, we had just returned from Pattaya, and I really wanted to find Nuguyen and attempt to recreate my off with him. So while Van was off with watching videos in the hotel with his freind Peter (they both had the night off from Hot Male), I went out, giving some excuse about dinner with friends...not sure why I said that but I did. I went to Screwboys looking for Nuguyen. I asked the mamsan, she said she'd get him, she brought Nuguyen to where I wasn't seated. This was a different Nuguyen...who could think Vietnamese boys might share a common family name, especially since Nuguyen is akin to Smith in the USA or Li in China. My Nuguyen was off, not clear on an off , off the for the night, or off at home. He was definitely not there. A disappointment but not a loss as Nuguyen (N2) was a stunner! He had some English and from the roaming of my hands he was the full package. Ah but where to go? There are two Hot Male boys at the hotel. Not to worry, mamasan, closes the deal by conducting us to the 500 baht hotel room next door. N2 showered with me and introduced me to his body. At one point, he tells me "I know you, I've seen you photo". This was a surprise and actually caused me to pause. before getting back to exploring him and thinking how well this had turned out. I assumed the photo he had seen was from Nuguyen1. We finished with another shower, some deep kissing, and we go our separate ways. I return to The Raya where Van and Paul ask me how my time with friends went and take me to bed...not much action as I'm running on depleted. So, two days later, Van is getting ready to go home for Tet and needs to shop and pack, he tells me he'll be back by dinner time. I go into the bedroom and fall asleep. Van returns, laughing, he comes into the bedroom, and says he has a surprise for me...he did...it was N2. Turns out, he's one of Van's roommates and had seen photos of my from Van's phone. They'd worked out the surprise together. He tells me this as he undresses me and himself and reintroduces me to his stunning physicality. Van shuts the door for our privacy as he wont be part of a threesome with N2. Lessons learned: there are no secrets among the guys and this surprise began my understanding the level of Van's taking care of me. N2 eventually moved back to Vietnam, then to Europe where he was in London once when I visited. Now to return to the current report...

Welcome to the Forum...I'm not the best one to answer you - BoyzBoyzBoyz has a show that's the closest equivalent to the one at Dreamboys and has some of the Jupiter kind of staging. I've taken out a very manly guy from Toy Boys but not sure the others there are as close to that description. I'm sure you'll have an answer and I would encourage you to check out Pattaya. In Jomtien, you can definitely spend time with a guy or guys and their friends. Not sure the Cambodians who make up most of Jomtien's boys meet your description...but they will socialize.

Friday -Bangkok I disentangle myself from Van - this should not be read as any reference to morning sex. It's an accurate reference to Van's habit of laying claim to as much of the bed as possible and tying the sheets into a knot! This morning one leg was across my chest. Knowing he wont be awake for a couple of hours, I head to the pool area and do a treadmill workout on the gym. A negative that I did not notice on my tour - the gym has two walls that are glass. The sun is out and its very warm and the air conditioning isn't working. I move to the pool and do some serious floating. Very relaxing. There is a cafe counter near the pool where one can order breakfast and/or drinks. There is also an indoor reading room with magazines and newspapers. I hang around the pool for about an hour, then back to the room. Van still asleep. Time for a shower and a session with Japanese toilet. When I finish, Van is beginning to wake, he is remarkable attractive in his nakedness as he heads to the bathroom and shower. I make tea and eat some cereal and fruit. He emerges and joins me in having tea. We talk about the day, he has to meet with his room mates and will leave around 12:30 and will find me at Maxi's before he goes to work at 8pm After we talk a bit about plans for the weekend and don't really have any, he dresses and leaves. I follow and head over to Surawong to see the tailors at Excelsior. Once there I meet the owner's wife who is in the midst of a fabric inventory, I let the guys know that friends of mine from California should be dropping by. I order three shirts in retro hippie style, very 70s Berkeley. It's warm as I walk around, decide this is a good day for Prince. It is further from Surawong than from my hotel, so I am perspiring heavily when I arrive. I pick a guy who is physically somewhere between muscle and twink. His photo is in the Prince advert in Thaipuan - the gay club giveaway publicaton. Oil massage given by the twink portion of my masseur - translation: not as strong as I would have liked. The afters start in the middle of the massage - I am enjoying the attention and also resistant to going beyond a certain point as I'm hoping for time with Nuguyen tonight. We finish - he more than me and I appreciate that. A cold drink as I find my shoes at the door. Good size crowd mostly Asian, possible Chinese in the viewing area. There is a small min-van in the parking lot - maybe Prince is now its own Chinese tour stop. Back at the hotel - ten minute walk - I cathc up with my messages. Nuguyen has more time tomorrow, Saturday, unless though I could off him tonight from Screwboys. We agree on dinner and afters on Saturday. I text Reader and we'll meet up at Maxi's at PaulSF time. I head over to soi 4 to check show times at Jupiter - this entails crossing Silom at the height of rush hour...which makes it easy as everything is gridlocked. I check at Nakarat - confirmed my favorite is unavailable as he's home. Get the time at Jupiter then cut through Patpong past Foodland and Screwboys. To Maxi's when I'm greeted by Pau, who has a most brilliant smile. It's quiet at the moment and we share a drink and he catches me up on what I might be interested in - he doesn't haveany update on Twilight's future. If Maxi's has to close, he plans to go back to Chiang Mai. One of the touts from Hot Male comes over to show me photos of his son and asks me to buy him a coffee - which I do. He gives me the schedule for HotMale shows - the length and which of the shows is a f*ck show. I said maybe but not tonight. Van stops by with a coworker so that I can buy them a drink ( this is Van's way of road testing a possible off for me). Nice guy tonight but I don't make any approach other than some conversation. At 8:15 Van leaves for work. Reader has arrived by now and we have some drinks and food. Van can be seen on stage at Freshboys and waves to us. I decide to go to X-Boys tonight and alert Reader's bar boy friend. Before heading the across the soi, I observe a fellow going into Bangkok massage, all the boys head upstairs which means he is choosing from the lineup. I mention this as this fellow, who appears to be Japanese, will reappear in my report. Once in X-Boys, I'm given a seat at the end of the stage and then learn that the show may not start for another 30 minutes as there isn't a crowd. Then there is a major influx of Chinese - enough to fill one whole side of the room and part of the opposite side. So the show starts. In the parade of boys, I see one or two that interest me. One, a light skinned tall Cambodian, had caught my attention when he arrived for work. Unclothed, he is more interesting. The mamsans at X-Boys are alert and he is very soon by my side. I enjoy his company, buy the usual drinks, learn he has zero English, but is adept at sign language. We wait for the end of the show before he goes to change. We leave, I say goodbye to Pau, and grab a tuk-tuk to the hotel. My room's view impresses as he does. I like that he is tall in all the right places (sorry, I had to type that). He leaves a bit after 1pm. I give him 100 baht for a taxi. I clean up, catch up on email, Van arrives a bot after 2am. He ate after the show with some of h is friends. He knew from Pau who I had been with and checked up on how it went. I go to bed, he is still wired, asks if he should join me, I say it's ok for him to play video games instead.

PooleBearXYZ - welcome to the Forum. There is a pic in the ist of Forum topics that is called "Timeless Info". It deserves a read as it will answer many of your questions. I'm not sure about Shangri-La as to bringing back locals. The upscale hotels usually are ok as long as one is discreet (e.g. no public displays of affection in the lobby). If you want to take two guys read Vinapu's suggestions and comments - both guys need to agree, the mamsan can be helpful s to who tops but confirm with the guy. ,My experience, is to choose one guy discuss the details, use the mamasan and google translate as/ifneeded, and then work with the guy you picked first to choose someone you both can work with. Uber isn't inThailand, local equivalent is Grab and there is an app. But if you are going to be in the area around Moonlight, there are lots of taxi's. Good luck and, again, welcome to the Forum...

On to Bangkok - Thursday The driver from Mike's Pattaya arrived at The Poseidon right on time...which was a surprise as Mike's drivers are usually early. Traffic flow was surprisingly light UNTIL we approached Swampy. The traffic from the airport, the regular city traffic, and it's a road in Bangkok so it's a slow moving parking lot. The driver was using his map app for directions and I could see where the roads were highlighted in red...it was going to be awhile. Eventually, we pulled into the driveway for Bandara Hotel and Suites. I'd attempted to book both the Raya and Tarntawan but neither was able to confirm my request for nine nights. Each could confirm a shorter stay toward the time I'd be heading home. When I was in Bangkok at the end of the summer, I'd checked with the Raya and the staff and the booking agencies showed it would be full. This was due to some major golf tournament that appealed to Japanese clients. I asked about other hotels and read up on what other Forum members were mentioning about accommodation. Reader and the manager of Maxi's both were positive about Bandara, so before I flew home in September, I visited Bandara which is about a five minute walk from Senso and close to Prince. It's a two building complex, the first building, which houses an upscale Japanese restaurant and an all purpose hotel dining room is for folks in groups or staying for extended periods. The second building is for shorter hotel stays. I was given a guide and together we toured the various options, the higher up one stays in the hotel finds both the price and the view increasing. There is a large swimming pool as well as an extra large hot tub situation close to a decently equipped gym. The rooms that I toured all had small but well equipped kitchens, the view from the upper floors was expansive. I didn't commit in September as I assumed (bad thing to do) that a room would become available at The Raya. I kept checking but there was no change. I'll be honest, I like a bit of comfort - so some other places that had vacancies did not appeal, nor did those that had joiner fees for guests. My "suite" was on the 24th floor, the living room's outer wall was all glass, almost 20 feet in width that provided a view from the Sala Daeng BTS to Lumpini Park and beyond. Fully equipped bathroom with a Japanese spray and wash toilet, and a large bedroom with a king size bed, a desk, etc. The safe worked, water was supplied, kitchen had water, dishes cutlery...this will work. I headed out to meet up with my favorite masseur at Nakarat only to learn that he was home, bummer. I hadn't set up anything in advance though we'd been in LINE contact a week ago while I was in Pattaya. So, on to Prime, where I was told there was a 30 minute wait for a combination foot and Thai massage. I walked around he neighborhood and noticed that the empty lot where there had been lots of food stalls was now a construction site. It could be a hotel or it could be something to do with the nearby hospital. Had my combo bak at Prime and headed back to Bandara to change stopping at the market in the Silom Complex for groceries for breakfast. I confirmed with Reader that I was in town and would meet up at Maxi's to celebrate Thanksgiving (US version). I also let Van know I was in town and that we'd meet up. For those who haven't followed my past reports, Van was my first successful off when I returned to Thailand after almost two decades. He has been my long time off for most of my stays. This relationship has adapted over time to his being a friend with benefits. He is still an excellent in bed partner but he is also a commentator on what's happening and an evaluator of possible offs, and one who will actively find offs that he believes will appeal to me. I'm also in touch with Nuguyen from Screwboys - who I haven't seen in two years. Our last meeting was the week the late King, Rama IX, died. He is back in town and we LINE about meeting on Saturday. I head out to Maxi's to meet Reader. We often meet there at what we refer to as PaulSF time...translation, from row seating at Maxi's to watch the boys going to work. As I entr Twiight, I'm greeted by the touts at Hot Male as an old friend, there is now a third tout, and they all have new Hot Male shirts which they show me. There are now three not because there is more business but because they help out at Moonlight - both having the same owner. I notice the Cambodian Lao boys, I uaually have a drink with at Hot Male 2 aren't there. This is another disappointment as I are each fun guys who I have offed on past visits (miss the convenience of The Raya) Thursday night is Pau's night off at Maxi's.. Pau is my favorite waiter and keeps me informed of what is happening and he remembers who I've been with and if they are still working, where they are working. One of the other waiters spots me and puts me at a table that easily meets PaulSF's standard with the bonus of being able to see the stage at Freshboys. Within a few minutes of sitting down, Van, who is working at Freshboys, joins me and we start catching up, I buy him a drink and offer dinner, he has a lemony ice tea drink, and I tell him I'll off him but will give him the baht so I don''t have to go to Freshboys tonight. He will take care of that and go to his place and get his stuff and come back to Maxi's. Reader arrives and we catch up, he has been in town for a while and won't be leaving until after I'm home, he lets me know that possibly the reason my Nakarat masseur and the Hot Male 2 guys aren't around is that there has been change in the commission structure at both places. (Reader, when you see this - if i have something wrong, please correct). We have some food, Reader eats later with one of his many "friends". He introduces me to one of the bar boys at X-boys, small sized but very cute, who joins us for a drink before the evening's acton starts. Reader lets me know that Divine Madman is celebrating the Loy Krathong Festival and will be back in Bangkok on Saturday. Van returns, he knows the X-Boys bar boy, and he joins us. I believe Reader and I are both almost ready to leave, but about an hour earlier we watched as two girls with suitcases wandered into Twilight, they were rushed by the boys at Bangkok Massage, they decided to have massages, which made the boys preen like peacocks, two were selected, and the four adjourned upstairs... So Reader and I await for the girls to re-emerge. The do, one looks happy, one no so much. After they have gone off, the guys they chose come down after cleaning up the massage rooms and are immediately the center of attention of their co-workers. Reader puts names to some of the guys, one of whom is a favorite of PaulSF's. Van and I say good night, we stop at Foodland for more supplies, then to Bandara Suites where I have him check in as a hotel guest. He thinks this is the best hotel I've been in over the years. We spend lots of time talking as he's only back in Bangkok after almost a year of working in VIetnam at a failing business. He' not happy that the business failing had him return to the gogo clubs but it's better money than at home where there isn't that much work. He tells me that a mutual friend, Paul who used to be at Hot Male will be back in town while I'm in Bangkok. We agree that I will consider him a nightly off, but won't pay a fee to the club, he can return to the room when the Freshboys closes about 2am. I'll text hi if I have offed someone and they are at the hotel. We've done this before so we have the routine down. He tells me to avoid one boy who has started to cheat customers (he says he's telling me this as the boy is a type that appeals to me). We had planned to go to Jupiter but decided to just stay in and get comfortable with each other. He is aware of what I like and activates us both.

I had to wait at Prime for a Thai massage in November. Having to wait may be a function of time of day as my visit was around 5pm.

Hank is correct. It’s Moonlight that’s shares an owner with a Hot Male.

One rainy night as I was leaving Twilight for Jupiter, Mr Bandana, found an umbrella and walked me over to Jupiter to let them know I was a good customer. Hot Male and Jupiter have the same owner. Not sure the recommendation made any difference - though mamasan spent quality time analyzing possible offs for me.

Definitely agree

Spoon Thanks for the delightful report! Your reasons for deciding to avoid the high season make great sense. I tend to book when space opens up on my calendar - and often that's just before or just after high season. I'm sort of an exception to the rule as the Hotmale touts (I refer to them as "grabbers") know me from multiple visits, so I get to see family photos as I buy them a coffee. I, too, often base myself at Maxi's where PaulSF taught me where to sit to see the Freshboys on stage. One needs be careful and not take the see that lets one see the X-Boys mamasans change.