Gaybutton

That's precisely what I think. You know why? You don't merely express your opinions. You get personal about it and you express your opinions as if they were fact. Well, my friend, your opinions are not fact. Neither are mine. I notice when you have no valid argument you start resorting to insult and put-down attempts. Unfortunately, with me they don't work. Keep trying, though. With enough practice I think there is a very good chance you might eventually become good at it. Are you ever going to answer the question I asked, three times now . . . the one about what you do to fight corruption in Thailand and what results you've achieved? Well, since you entirely avoid answering that question and since the answer is perfectly obvious anyway, I'll answer it. You do absolutely nothing, give right in if a police officer, even a corrupt one, confronts you, and then get on this board and start posting with a self-righteous attitude if someone, meaning me, won't agree with you. And that's why, in my opinion, your arguments and put-downs have no validity whatsoever. My favorite line of yours is, "at least have the guts to admit that what you are doing is wrong." I'm so grateful to you for presuming to decide for me what I think is right and wrong. Ok, since you are so morally righteous, just let me know where to erect the statue.

Good point. If you have to be stuck somewhere, it might as well be right here. I can certainly think of worse places to be stuck.

My interpretation of bkkguy's standpoint is even if you go to the police station to pay it, if you know you did nothing wrong, then you're still contributing. Based on his post, the only way I see to avoid being a contributor is to refuse to pay at all and face the consequences. Otherwise, according to him, you're taking the easy way, shirking your responsibility, you're morally wrong, and you're leaving the battle to be fought by everyone else. You know what? In that kind of circumstance I'm going to take the easy way, shirk my responsibility, be morally wrong, and leave the battle to be fought by everyone else.

I don't think the issue is determining whether to call it a bribe or call it something else. I believe the issue, stemming from the other thread, is whether you are contributing to corruption or being victimized by corruption if you do give the policeman his 200 baht, even when you know you have done nothing wrong when driving a car or motorbike.

I agree with RichLB. The question on this poll is a loaded question, to my mind similar to "When did you stop beating your wife?" style questions. However, I think people will get the idea if they read the discussion that prompted this thread on page 4 and 5 of the "Red-Shirt Protests Go Violent" thread.

It was getting into a specific debate between bkkguy and myself regarding only one aspect - my personal morality (or lack of same). This thread is about what's happening with the Red-Shirt protest, the Thai political system, and commentary about it, but not whether farang should be involved in fighting corruption or the morality of disputing or not disputing traffic tickets. This thread easily could have gone off on that tangent and stayed there, so I'd rather see that subject discussed on a different thread.

No, what you have is your opinion that it's morally wrong. You, of course, are entitled to your opinion, but that doesn't mean that I have to share your opinion. I don't share it. You can call me morally wrong all you want. That doesn't make it so, although I'm sure I'm morally wrong about a great many things. But since you are so morally high and mighty, I'm still waiting for you to tell us what you have done to fight corruption in Thailand, if you've done anything at all other than your usual efforts to put me down. Do you realize you are actually criticizing me for doing precisely the same thing you just said you would do yourself? And you expect me to take you seriously? Good luck with that one. We're also getting way off the thread subject again. You can have the last word and then let's get back to the Red-Shirt protests on this thread. If you want to continue discussing the morality of paying corrupt traffic cops, please start a new thread.

I don't see it that way. I see it as being victimized by the police and given no practical means of doing anything about it other than just not liking it. I don't know what you expect a farang driver to do when these minor incidents occur. If you listen to people like bkkguy, then I'm supposed to try to take on and fight a battle against corruption, a battle that I have absolutely no chance of winning. Charge of the Light Brigade! Huzzah! I'm not here to do that and I'm not here to try to fight a losing battle that isn't worth it to me to bother with even if I could win. This kind of corruption is, rightly or wrongly, a part of life in Thailand. I can live with it, stop driving, or pack my bags. If there's anything else I can do without becoming the next Don Quixote, I'd like to know what it is. Refuse to pay? Take it to court? Go to jail over it? Get kicked out of Thailand over it? Not me. If others want to fight it, go for it. I'll just go on merry way being a victim of it once in a while and accept the fact that I might lose a couple thousand baht per year over it. Oh, and by the way bkkguy, let's hear all about what you have done to fight corruption and all the positive changes that have occurred in Thailand as a result of your heroic efforts. "Go on, tell me about it, Cole. Tell me about how if it was you, you'd have done it different." - Robert Mitchum, 'El Dorado'

I don't wonder. I don't know how many people realize the potential for catastrophe this can have, especially if it does go on and on and even more especially if that other volcano blows its stack too. Has anyone noticed the incredible number of earthquakes that have happened over the past several months, including today in Papua New Guinea? Earthquakes and volcanoes kind of go together. And it isn't even 2012 yet!

I don't see it quite the way you do. I see the corruption part as being stopped at all when you have done nothing wrong and have violated no traffic rules. To me, that's the corruption. To my mind, in that circumstance there would be no "real" ticket, at least not one in the sense of being based on a valid violation. I see paying off the cop to get out of it not as contributing to the corruption, but as being victimized by it. You can pay the "real" ticket or you can pay the cop. Since paying the cop is much cheaper and without the hassle of going to the police station, you still end up paying either way, but I'll pay the cop. If I have violated a traffic law, that's one thing. But when I'm parting with money, either at the police station or to the pockets of the cop, when there has been no violation then I see myself as being a victim of his corruption, but I don't see myself as a contributor. Besides, either paying the cop or going to the police station, what's the alternative?

Here's even more cheery news that was just published: _____ Volcano Chaos Could Continue for Months The Icelandic volcano causing travel chaos across Europe could go on erupting for months, geologists warned last night. Volcano chaos could continue for months - Telegraph I'm also wondering if anyone reading this has been forced to cancel or postpone your trip to Thailand.

I certainly hope so.

If you really want a pleasant thought, from what I have been reading there is a second volcano nearby, the Katla volcano, that has a history of erupting only shortly after the Eyjafjallajökull volcano and has a potential of being 50 to 100 times as problematic. Better still, scientists are saying the Katla volcano does appear to be on the verge of erupting. There are already problems due to travelers who are running out of money for food and a place to stay, visas getting ready to expire, credit cards being maxed out, etc. The list of problems can eventually become quite extensive. Also, aviation is not the only travel concern. Apparently there are also worries about the volcanic ash clogging the air filters on cars, buses, trucks, etc. Ground transportation such as buses and railroads are rapidly becoming overcrowded. Even when the airlines can start flying again, it will probably be similar to the way things were following the end of the Yellow-Shirt takeover of Suvarnabhumi airport. It took days for everyone to be able to get flights out, only this time it can encompass most of the major airports throughout Europe and even airports in countries that are not directly effected by the volcano, possibly including Thailand, for Europeans and travelers trying to get to Europe. It may actually be fortunate that this is happening during the low season. I have not yet seen news items talking about Europeans stuck in Thailand who can't get home, but I suspect that problem already exists for many. I suggest reading the following articles: __________ More Eruptions Possible Located near the southern tip of Iceland, the Eyjafjallajökull volcano lies between the Eyjafjallajökull Glacier and the Mýrdalsjökull Glacier near the caldera of the Katla volcano.The Eyjafjallajökull last erupted on March 20, 2010 and before that it erupted off and on between 1821-1823. It was considered to be dormant until it began to show signs of renewed life late in 2009. Historically, the Katla has erupted following each eruption of the Eyjafjallajökull, leading experts to believe that the Katla may be close to erupting now. Eruption of Icelandic Volcano Creates Travel Nightmare __________ Glaciologist: Katla Only Needs a Nudge Glaciologist Helgi Björnsson is concerned that the current volcanic eruption in Eyjafjallajökull glacier could cause the neighboring volcano Katla to erupt as well, which could have much more serious consequences. http://www.icelandreview.com/icelandreview/daily_news/?cat_id=40764&ew_0_a_id=360895 __________ Volcanic Ash Disruption Enters Fourth Day in UK The UK is enduring a fourth day as a virtual no-fly zone, as the travel chaos caused by volcanic ash drifting from Iceland shows no sign of ending. Flight restrictions have been extended until at least 1900 BST and forecasters say the ash cloud could remain over the UK for several more days. BBC business editor Robert Peston said the disruption risked becoming a "major business and economic disaster". BBC News - Volcanic ash disruption enters fourth day in UK

April 16~30 Gourmet Set Menu House Champagne *** Amuse Bouche *** White Wine Cackle Berry Chardonnay, Australia 2007 Sesame flavored Yellow Tail Tuna Tatar on potted Belgium Endive *** Salmon Carpaccio and Cashew Nuts Pesto on roasted Garlic Cream Soup *** Seaside Ragout in Puff Pastry *** Spicy Passion Fruit Sherbet *** Red Wine Cackle Berry, Shiraz, Australia, 2006 Tianon of French Sea Bass filet Ni

I'm wondering if the volcano in Iceland has grounded any of you in Thailand. As far as I know, this is the first time an "Act of God" has created this kind of circumstance and so far the reports are that no end to the volcanic eruption is in sight. If you're struck in Thailand, and your visa is about to expire, have any of you been to Immigration? If yes, what are you being told? If you are eligible for an extension, are they making you pay for it? What happens if your extension runs out, but you're still stuck due to flight cancellations? Will Immigration continue granting extensions until flights are running again? Are they making you leave Thailand despite the volcano and saying you'll have to go to another country? On the other hand, many farang who live in Thailand went to other countries to escape Songkran and are due to return to Thailand within the next several days. Are any of you stuck somewhere and find yourself unable to return to Thailand? What problems are you encountering? What's the story?

Red-Shirts, Yellow-Shirts, Pink-Shirts, Blue-shirts - and now "No Color-Shirts." __________ 'No colours' rally against red shirts at army base Published: 17/04/2010 Bangkok Post Thousands of protesters opposed to dissolving parliament have converged on the 11th Infantry Regiment base in a show of moral support for the government and the military. And now they vow to gather at Victory Monument to support the government every day. Friday's rally opposed the demands of the red shirt United Front for Democracy against Dictatorship which has repeatedly called on the Abhisit government to dissolve the lower house. The protesters also called for severe legal action to be taken against the red shirt rally at Ratchaprasong intersection to return peace and normalcy to the capital. 'No colours' rally against red shirts at army base __________ 'No colour' group holds out new hope for civil society 17/04/2010 Bangkok Post The political impasse presents an opportunity for civil society and business groups to play a larger role in bringing Thailand out of crisis. While civil society groups have existed in Thailand for decades, they were only formalised under the 1997 constitution. These groups provide a channel for people to communicate with the government. Unfortunately, many of them have been weakened and exploited by political influence. This has created a lost opportunity for Thais, especially those in urban areas like Bangkok. 'No colour' group holds out new hope for civil society

You always take excellent Songkran photos. Do you have any for us this year?

An embarrassing fiasco for govt By THE NATION Published on April 17, 2010 Arisman Pongruangrong and other red-shirt leaders on a wanted list could not be apprehended when they were in full public view in the middle of the city, so what convinced Thai police that they could catch them by storming a hotel that once belonged to Thaksin Shinawatra? From the embarrassing shambles left in their wake, not only did the police think they could do so - they must have presumed they could do it with one eye closed. When overweight Arisman, who must also be afraid of heights, staged a clumsy cable-descending stunt in front of local and international media from the SC Park Hotel's third-floor balcony to safety, the humiliation of Thailand's highly questionable police force was complete. Not to mention that two senior officers were taken by the red mob from the hotel to the Rajprasong rally site to "guarantee" the escapees' safe return. How come what was supposed to be a pre-dawn sting operation ended with Arisman staging the escape just before 10am and mobs accompanying all the police targets back to Rajprasong at noon? Everything was so fishy that Deputy Prime Minister Suthep Thaugsuban, who around 9am had proudly announced that Arisman and at least a couple of others were now in police custody, lost his cool and virtually everyone on the government side lost patience with his excuses. A probe into what went wrong was pledged, but the damage had been done and half the world was already laughing. An embarrassing fiasco for govt SC Park Hotel back in the headlines By THE NATION Published on April 17, 2010 The SC Park Hotel on Praditmanutham Road became a scene of high drama yesterday morning. Hundreds of policemen entered the hotel to arrest six red-shirt leaders - Arisman Pongruangrong, Suporn Atthawong, Payap Panket, Sangiem Samranlak, Wanchana Kerddee and Yoswarit Chuklom, aka Jeng Dokchik. However, two of the six escaped by lowering themselves from the third floor via electrical cabling. The other four were apprehended, but were almost immediately released when red-shirt demonstrators descended on the area. SC Park Hotel back in the headlines

You can safely go again. That manager is no longer with Poseidon. He left five months ago. Kim manages Poseidon herself now. The other restaurant you referred to is called L'Olivier. They are closed until after Songkran. The Ritz and Aquarius, both in Jomtien Complex, are also closed until after Songkran. By the way, if anyone is going to go to Poseidon (or anywhere in the Jomtien Beach area) between now and the end of Songkran, I suggest going by car, riding up front with the driver if you go by baht bus, or call Poseidon and ask for their courtesy car. If not, unless you are going for a late dinner you will get soaked on the way and probably on the way back too. I've seen groups still splashing people between Pattaya Tai and Jomtien beach as late as 9:00pm.

That's what to do, then. If you're having problems with the speed, the thing to do is start the download when you're ready to go to sleep. Then, when you wake up, your download ought to be there.

I would have thought you might at least come up with a good intelligent argument and analogy. My friend, that one definitely ain't it . . . Try again.

Then I fail to see the point of trying to pay one's way out of it at all. What it amounted to is 10,000 baht per person was lost to this "fixer" and they still wound up having to take their chances. For all practical purposes the "fixer" profited 100,000 baht for essentially guaranteeing nothing.

There is a good review, with photos, in this week's PATTAYA MAIL: Pattaya Mail - Dining Out & Entertainment

Several people I've spoken to, even with different cable companies, lost the Bloomberg channel this week and also were upset. I suppose if enough people call and complain they might restore it, but I think the most likely reason they would have dropped it would if they started having to pay a lot more for it.

I'm glad it worked out. Did you see anyone get the red ball? I'm curious as to how they responded. Did they take it in stride? Did they get upset? What did you see?