Gaybutton

Thank you, fountainhall. Not that I'm planning to go to Bangkok any time soon (although a young gent or two just might override that decision), but your information is a great help. It certainly seems as if it is far less complicated coming from the south, as I would do, but my main concern would be that Rama IV exit being blocked off. I never even knew about that Soi Suwan Sawat alternative. I think next time I drive to Bangkok I'l give it a try. This is where having a GPS comes in handy, but I don't know my way around Bangkok all that well and I would be nervous that the GPS would route me right into the protest area, exactly where I wouldn't want to be. I think for the time being, until the protest either ends or moves elsewhere, if I go to Bangkok, I'll probably go on by bus and take a taxi from the bus station. It might be more expensive and inconvenient that way, but then it would be their problem instead of mine. However, if I leave Pattaya very early in the morning, like between 4:00-5:30am, or very late at night, I would still probably drive.

Ahhhhh, Gay Romeo. I've noticed that many Thai boys, especially the money boys, will often lie about their age, but they don't say they're younger than their actual age. They say they're older. They do that, of course, if they're under-age but are looking for sex-for-pay. I don't think Gay Romeo even permits anyone to register if they say they are under 18. Only yesterday I was looking at some of the personals. I saw an ad on Gboysiam that caught my attention because I could have sworn I had just seen an ad from that very same boy on Gay Romeo. I had another look at Gay Romeo and sure enough, there was that same boy, even using the same screen name. On Gay Romeo he said he is 19. On Gboysiam he says he is 15! And his photos make him look a lot closer to 15 than 19 to me. You have to be careful about things like that. That's why if I arrange to meet a Gay Romeo boy whose age seems questionable, I always make sure to check his ID card and I always arrange to meet them at some neutral spot first, but not my home until I've checked his ID card. Also, some of these boys are not above grabbing someone else's photos or photos they've taken from other web sites and posting them as their own photos. I'm usually skeptical when they post headless photos. I'm also skeptical if they've posted shirtless photos, but I can spot differences in the photos, such as different tattoos, tattoos at differing body locations, differences in body hair, etc. I guess I have been lucky. So far I've had only one incident in which I wanted to meet a Gay Romeo boy and fell for it about his age. I was going to meet him at a neutral spot. His Gay Romeo photos looked too young, but he insisted he was 18. When he showed up at the appointed location I told him to show me his ID card. He didn't try to lie by saying he didn't have it. He did have it and showed it to me. He was 16! I told him, "Very sorry, I'll see you in two years." He still tried to convince me to take him anyway. He said, "No problem. Police not know." I said, "I'm sorry. Maybe police not know, but I know. I do not take boys when they are too young. And you lied to me about your age, so I don't take you." That's when a very disappointed looking boy sulked away and I went to a bar. The best solution to avoid the under-age boys from the personals sites is to make sure to check their ID cards when you first meet them. I never tell them in advance to bring their ID cards because the under-age boys will all too often try to pull the old switcheroo with their ID cards when they know you're going to check. If they show up without an ID card or try to give me some excuse for not showing it to me, I don't take them.

A few more questions: When I go to Bangkok I usually stay at either the Malaysia Hotel or the Pinnacle Hotel. I prefer to drive to get there. When I exit the expressway, I take the Rama IV exit, which is only a few blocks from Soi Ngam Duplii, where both of those hotels are located. Do you know if there is any difficulty taking that exit? Also, quite often the police barricade off the Rama IV exit on the northbound side. When they do that, I usually go to the next exit at Phetchaburi Road and head for Rama IV from there. What are your thoughts about that? Do you know if the Chatuchak weekend market has been open and operating normally?

I would say there really isn't a change in nationalities, but some have become more prominent. Russia seems to represent quite a surge in visitors to Pattaya. Many shops that used to have their signs and ads only in Thai and English now also include Russian. I've noticed many restaurants now have menus that include Russian. I've seen more Russian restaurants opening up. Other than that, I haven't noticed much of anything having changed.

Mindless twaddle? Hmmmm. And here I was thinking it was mindless diddly-doo. Of course, it's easy to avoid a response by sluffing it off, bestowing a label upon it, and trying to use that as justification for it being unworthy of attention, when meanwhile, by your own admission, the things I said are exactly what you would do. To quote Ronald Reagan, "There you go again . . ." You wrote, "If the friend was truly keen on the special go-go boy then he would be doing . . ." As for the rest of that sentence, just fill in the blank. You have written similar sentences throughout this thread. I'm sure your friends are delighted that you have decided for them what they would do. After all, there's only one valid point of view . . . yours. However, you have certainly made your position clear. You're going to disregard your friend's wishes, come up with justification for it, and do what you can to make sure his boyfriend, person of interest, object of infatuation, or whatever you want to call it, ends up sharing your bed with you. After all, your friend can't really mean that he doesn't want you to bed down with his boyfriend. That boy can't really be his boyfriend since he's working in a bar. And why shouldn't I take him whether my friend likes it or not? The boy is merely a prostitute. If my friend has asked me not to take him, what the hell do I care? I know how to handle it. If I was your friend (and I can see that won't ever happen) and asked that you don't take off a particular boy who I feel close to, if his badge number is 22, I'll ask that you don't take the boy wearing badge number 7. That way my boyfriend will be safe while you're triumphantly prancing out the door with boy number 7, who also won't have to go home penniless that night. Now everyone will be happy . . . It won't work that way, though. After your posts, just brimming over with intelligence, my posts are only mindless twaddle . . .

How is this going to affect the Silom-Suriwong-PatPong gay bar area, popular gay hotels such as the Pinnacle, Malaysia, and Tarntawan Place, along with places such as the Babylon Sauna, all of which are in the vicinity you are describing? Also, what about access to these places? I'm guessing you might as well forget about it by car, but what about taxis, motorbike taxis, and the Metro and BTS? I suppose there's always walking, but would you be walking right into a dangerous area? Actually, I've heard these hotels are rather full right now because of the difficulty many are having trying to get home due to the volcano.

My answer is I don't know what my friend thinks and I'm not going to ask. He's my friend and if he has expressed his wishes, that's good enough for me. I don't need him to explain or justify. Ok, I've answered your question. Now instead of evading it yet again, answer mine. It took me a few minutes to finish my little laugh over this one: "Do you want to go home penniless or do you want to go with me?" How generous of you. You're coming to the rescue of the boy your friend asked you not to take. You merit a statue too. If you're so concerned about the boy that you're going to help him out by fucking him, why not truly help him instead by abiding by your friend's wishes, taking the boy off, giving him some money right then and there instead of taking him home so you can get laid, and letting him go home or wherever he wants to go so he have a night off and not have to go home penniless? Can't do that, though, can you? Nooooo. Doing something like that never even occurred to you. You've just got to have sex with him. From among all the other boys available it just has to be him. After all, your friend's wishes mean nothing to you. And the boy . . . well, he's nothing but a prostitute.

You are becoming very quick to put down people who don't agree with you. "Silly old fools." Why? Because they don't agree with you? Unless their opinion is the same as yours, then they're silly old fools? As far as you not getting it, the point is you don't have to get it. Only your friend has to get it. If he asks you not to take off a certain boy, try at least asking him why before you head out your door to the bar where you know that boy works. So, you go right ahead and take a boy off even if your friend has asked that you don't. I'm still waiting for you to address the question I asked: Given the number of boys available, why would you take off the one boy your friend has asked you not to? Anyone who has a go-go boy boyfriend lining up to be gay_grampa's friend?

If that is the case, then on what basis does he decide to waive the charge?

Velasco: I wish I was ten years older. Corrie: Older?!? Velasco: Yes. Dirty old men get away with much more. - Barefoot in the Park

I think it would be best if someone takes a copy of that article, shows it to Wat, find out from him what the story is, and then let us know what he says.

Amen! Totally agree.

Are you talking about a boyfriend or a marriage? Does moving toward those goals count?

With my luck, instead I'll come back as a cell in the asshole of a dung beetle. Come to think of it, some people out there think that's what I already am. OMG! You're going to be my wife!

I don't disagree with that, but I don't see that as the issue. To my mind, that's between the farang and the boy and is not our business to pass judgment. I don't know how a farang can truly consider the boy to be his boyfriend if he works in a bar. What is important to me is my friend does consider it that way. Also, I neither know nor care whether he condones it or not. For all I know, the farang might be back in his home country and isn't even aware that the boy is still working in a bar. I don't see how that alters the issue. To me, there is only one issue here. A friend has asked that you don't off a certain boy because he has an ongoing relationship with him. Now you have the choice of abiding by his wishes or disregarding his wishes, no matter what the boy does for a living and no matter whether my farang friend condones it or not. That's his business, not mine. He has his reasons and I don't see any need for a friend to have to justify his reasons to my satisfaction. I pose the same question because so far nobody has posted an adequate answer: Given that there are so many boys here to choose from, why would you take off the one boy your friend has asked you not to?

I know this is a silly question, but would someone please explain to me what difference it makes as to which board posted a news item first or which poster made the "scoop"? What's that all about? Are we having some sort of an "I found out first" rivalry contest or something?

Yes, when I am subjected to needless put-down attempts as part of the post I get unreasonable about things like that. I'm funny that way. Ok, as far as I'm concerned you can have the last word.

That's right. I don't dispute gay_grampa's position that the boy is available for anyone, including him, but it still goes beyond me that if he knows his friend's wishes, he'll still take that boy. Don't forget, we're not talking about a boy somebody takes off every so often. We're talking about people who have an ongoing relationship with that boy. Gay_grampa is saying that if the boy works in a bar, then there's no reason not to take him off. I say there is a very good reason if I know my friend has some sort of a relationship going with that boy, beyond casual offs, and has made it known to me that he would rather I not take that particular boy. I'll repeat . . . I would choose to abide by my friend's wishes. Gay_grampa, on the other hand, as far as I can tell from the manner of his posts, couldn't care less whether his friend likes it or not and instead of finding another boy, he's going to take that boy regardless of his friend's wishes. Gay_grampa, I sincerely appreciate you giving me permission to think what I want. I hope some time you really do have a friend who asks that of you, but you go to that bar and off that boy anyhow. I hope as you're leaving with that boy, your friend at that moment is walking in. I'd love to be there when your friend realizes that you didn't give a damn about his feelings, only what you wanted for yourself, and asks you why you did that. I'd be very interested to see what you'll say to him. Since I now have your permission to think what I want, good. I think your attitude stinks.

Whatever the man's reasons were, his behavior was way out of line. Sometimes it can be very difficult to know what goes through the minds of people like that. Certainly part of the job of any hotel staff worker is to be friendly with the guests, but since when does that friendliness mean now he is supposed to date or have sex with the guest?

For me, that's easy. I would choose, if I could have plenty of money, to go to ancient Greece or ancient Rome. Can you imagine what gay life must have been like if you were wealthy? It was probably pretty good even if you were poor. Pompeii, before Mt. Vesuvius blew its stack, must have been a paradise. I would also consider Thailand, before western countries started imposing their homophobia.

I think that's just like saying "If God meant for man to fly, He would have given him wings." Sorry, but I don't view that as valid because I do not presume to know what God would have done and I don't presume to know what someone else would do. How do you know what someone else would do? Just because you feel that way doesn't mean that everyone else has to see it the same way. I see it just as Astrrro does. And again, I don't see your point. Are you saying that if you have a friend who you know would be upset if you took a particular boy, then instead of finding a different boy you would take that boy regardless of your friend's feelings? What are you going to say to him? "Yes, I knew you would be upset, but I didn't give a damn because you are letting him work as a prostitute." How do you think your friend will respond? Do you at least care? Maybe the boy is fair game because he works as a prostitute, but so are hundreds of others. Just because he is fair game, that doesn't mean you have to choose him. Why on earth would you want to take the one boy you know is going to upset your friend? If you value the friendship, why would you choose to disregard his feelings? I really don't understand why you would do that.

I agree with what you say, but I don't think it is upon me to judge how special a boy might be to a friend or upon what criteria the line of "fair game" should be drawn. My feeling is very simple. If a friend lets me know that he would be upset if I go with a particular boy, then to me whether the boy is a bar boy or not would be irrelevant to me. For me the only issue is whether I want to abide by my friend's wishes, as I hope he would abide by mine, or whether it is more important to me to take that particular boy and upset my friend when there are so many others. While there may be all kinds of justification for taking the boy despite my friend's wishes, it is something I simply would not do. I would find another boy. I just don't see any reason why that one boy would be so important to me that I would risk upsetting my friend to have him. This is one sea that has a hell of a lot of fish. I'll choose a different one. I would abide by my friend's wishes as I know my friends would do for me. If it is a boy I know my friend is been seeing, I wouldn't even ask the question as to whether it would be ok with him when he is away or any other time. I just wouldn't do it. If my friend tells me he doesn't see that boy anymore and has moved on to others or tells me they have "finished," now I would assume the boy is fair game.

I'm not so sure I would want a 'next life.' I'd have to go to school again? It's nice to think about going on to something else and even nicer if you genuinely believe that happens. Unfortunately for me, I think this is it and it's all you get. So, enjoy it while you can.

I am very familiar with that case. He's one of my closest friends. There was more to it than that, but you're talking about a substantial amount of money they were trying to cheat him out of and he got a settlement on breech of contract grounds. He had to pay attorney fees and this was a civil action, not a criminal case. I'd say that's a far cry from a 200 baht traffic ticket. I don't feel the least bit guilty about paying it and being on my way, no matter how many times bkkguy wants to insist I am morally wrong. RichLB is right. I have yet to meet anyone who has ever flat out refused to pay and took the consequences. I have no idea what those consequences are. Does anybody know? If you refuse to pay, what happens? What can they do about it? The only thing I am sure of is they can hold your driving license. The first thing they do when they stop you is ask to see your driving license. Until you either pay the cop, or go to the police station and then seek him out again to show your receipt, he's got your driving license. Other than that, I have no idea what can happen. So, excuse me for my terrible immorality, but I'm not about to be the one to find out the hard way. And I'll bet neither is bkkguy. In the meantime, I'm not idiotic enough fight a battle I know I can't win just to satisfy bkkguy that I'm being morally correct. I don't see him stepping up to lead the battle either. He says by not fighting it, then I am shirking my responsibility and leaving it for everybody else to fight . . . except him, of course. To me, his version of morality is the same principle of the terrorist leaders leaving it to others to be the suicide bombers. Lecture everyone else on how moral it is, but get involved and do anything himself? No way. Yep, that sure is fine example of morality on his part, isn't it? Should I ask him my question a fourth time? Bkkguy says at least he has the guts. Goody goody. I'll just have to suffer through life being a sniveling coward . . . "Hell, you're just a goddam coward!" - George C. Scott, 'Patton'

I think the main issue is whether they let their customers know, before they go upstairs, that they are going to be charged the 150 baht fee. I don't have a problem with it if they let you know, but I would be upset if the fee comes as a surprise later. Do they let people know? Also, it used to be that you could go upstairs alone and find boys already up there waiting for customers. Is it still like that or do you need to find a boy you like downstairs first and take him up with you? I'm guessing that whether you go upstairs with a boy or go up by yourself, you get charged the 150 baht fee. Is that correct?