Gaybutton

The following appears in the BANGKOK POST: _____ Foreigners Rip New Rules on Ownership FDI Likely to Fall as Investors Ready to Flee POST REPORTERS Foreigners yesterday poured scorn on moves by the Thai government to regulate foreign businesses by dismantling the widely used practice of using local nominee shareholders. ''If this government's aim is to scare away foreign investors, then I think they are doing a very good job here; they have the perfect strategy in place to do this,'' said Lance Depew, the portfolio manager of Quest Capital, a $250-million fund management company that has been very positive about Thailand even at the peak of the economic crisis in 1997. ''They are wreaking havoc on foreign investors, and investors are going to vote with their money on where they want to invest,'' he said. The military-backed government's attempt to place restrictions on foreign ownership by clarifying the poorly understood 1999 Foreign Business Act has been bitterly opposed by most foreign investors. They claim restrictions would only exclude Thailand from the booming foreign direct investment flowing into the region. ''In the face of competition from so many other countries, this is nothing but negative for Thailand, and we may have to do more research on what the impact of these measures would be before deciding on the sovereign ratings,'' said Kim Eng Tan, an associate director for sovereign and international public finance ratings at Standard & Poor's. ''I have a feeling that things are not going to be very rosy from here on,'' he said, noting that S&P was studying the country's rating and there was a ''strong chance'' that the outlook could be lowered. Under the changes that have made markets jittery, foreign investors will be given one year to sell down their holdings and up to two years to reduce voting rights to less than 50%. The laws redefined alien business classifications, and gave a 90-day deadline for firms that use Thai nominees to disclose their holdings. A one-year deadline was set for them to comply with revised limits. This move comes as the country's investment climate is already suffering from political instability, foreign ownership probes and recent capital controls. Mr. Tan said many previous investments in Thailand would have to be restructured. Some investors will leave altogether, even if the majority stick around. Peter Van Haren, the chairman of the Joint Foreign Chambers of Commerce, said: ''We are very disappointed with the moves, but we still have a ray of hope that things will be amended when it goes through the various processes before it becomes a law.'' The cabinet will refer the changes to the Council of State, the government's legal advisory body, and it could be months before the law is formally enacted. But the moves are seen as a step backward at a time when competition is intense for foreign direct investment. Thailand, which is already facing a protracted political crisis, saw investment applications in the first nine months of 2006 halved to $5.4 billion from the same period in 2005. ''What is Thailand doing? Countries like Vietnam are looking to relax foreign limits, and we are looking to tighten them?'' Mr. Depew asked. Other analysts were more vocal, saying that the interim government's poor understanding of business could have long-term implications. ''The main problem with this army-sponsored government represented largely by retired army generals is lack of experience in politics. ... Ministers are using a 'learn on the job' method. The result is simple _ confusing policies exposing their inexperience and hurting foreign investment, investor confidence, domestic consumption and the country's image [further],'' Vikas Kawatra, head of institutional sales at Kim Eng Securities, said in a note to clients. ''Imposing restrictions on FDI is simply wrong _ even though the intention behind the move is to punish the deposed PM Thaksin Shinawatra. I think these two steps aren't the last silly moves expected from this government.'' Citicorp Securities said hopes of a possible compromise were shattered, and called the moves the ''worst-case scenario''. It recommended its clients remain underweight in the Thai equity market. Mr. Tan of S&P agreed. ''Even in the best-case scenario I would say it is negative news for Thailand. ''In the short term people are going to pull out of Thailand and you will see less interest from foreign investors into Thailand,'' he said, adding that most foreign investors were looking for majority stakes to increase the efficiency of the companies in which they invest. __________ And this, from TNA: _____ Thai Finance Minister to explain amendments to foreign investors BANGKOK, Jan 9 (TNA) Deputy Prime Minister and Finance Minister Pridiyathorn Devakula said he will meet urgently on Wednesday with foreign business representatives in Thailand to explain the amendments to foreign business ownership rules in Thailand which were endorsed by the Cabinet Tuesday. Cabinet approved amendments to the Foreign Business Act imposing a strict 50-per cent cap on foreign investment and voting rights in companies operating in Thailand. Share prices dropped by 2.69 per cent as foreign investor confidence fell in response to another blow from government after the Cabinet acted to roll back foreign business procedures which had come to be accepted over time. The Stock Exchange of Thailand (SET) composite index lost 17.07 points, falling to 616.75, while the bluechip SET 50 index shed 12.44 points to close at 428.73 . On Monday, foreign businessmen said they opposed the measure on the basis that the new rules would undermine investor confidence and may trigger withdrawal of foreign investment activities from Thailand. Depending on the sectors in which they operate, foreign investors will be given one to two years to reduce their ownership and voting rights in compliance with the new regulations. Speaking after the Cabinet meeting, Pridiyathorn said he believed the amendments would bring more clarity and thereby greater confidence in Thailand's investment climate. He said the session on Wednesday will provide a forum for those concerned to raise questions which he will answer. The finance minister said the amendments approved by the Cabinet Tuesday remain subject to further scrutiny by the National Legislative Assembly which may alter certain details. (TNA)-E007

I believe your question was, "Have the moderators followed it religiously ?", but you do have my answer correct. If that post doesn't clarify it for you, then I guess you're going to end up finding out the hard way. If you think you're going to sucker me into game playing with you or quibbling about rules, think again. If you have a specific question, I'll try to answer it. Otherwise, the discussion about rules is over.

I don't disagree with you, Kregger, but this thread is supposed to be about the Sansuk sauna. I'd like to keep the thread on topic. I believe all sides have made their point about the pricing policy. If you would like to get into a discussion about double pricing in Thailand, please open a new thread and let's stick to commentary about the Sansuk sauna on this thread.

Certainly. Just look at post number 7 on this very thread. It's spelled out quite clearly.

I have no idea whether he reads this board or not, or how often he reads boards at all, if ever. I can't speak for others, but I agree with you in part because he has nothing much to lose. There is not exactly a huge number of gay "farang" under the age of 25 who come to Pattaya in the first place, so I don't see why it would be an issue for him. It is also possible that he already does let people under age 25 in free no matter what their race. I was told "Thai" by the person handing out the fliers. I never even talked about it with Punya. I talked to a worker during my initial visit about towel sizes. He got it wrong, so only Punya himself can provide a truly reliable answer. Even if he restricts the discount to Thais only, his motivation might not have anything to do with preferential treatment. He may be letting them in at greatly reduced prices just to get Thai boys to come there at all which, of course, also serves the purpose of attracting "farang." If he was charging them the same price that "farang" pay, few, if any boys, would be able to afford to come. Most of the boys have to get there by motorcycle taxi too. If they had to spring for a motorcycle taxi, to and from, and also pay 180 baht to get in (which will eventually be raised to 250 baht once the introductory period is over) then I doubt that many would come at all. For the average "farang," the price is no big deal, but for the average Thai boy, especially those under age 25, that is a huge chunk out of their income. Personally, I'd rather see a bunch of boys at the sauna then it end up being patronized only by "farang" and Thais who can afford the price of admission. In any case, that's why I asked if you are considering contacting him personally. Unless you do, there is no way to know for sure what's behind the pricing policy or whether he will consider changing his policy. I suppose you could leave it to others to ask him about it or merely assume that he reads this board, but to me he who raises the issue ought to be the one to check into it.

Only one. Have you considered contacting Punya to let him know your opinion?

A few posts that recently appeared on this thread probably appear to have been deleted. They were not deleted. They were moved to the "Equitable moderation" thread, where people are discussing moderation policies. Please, if you wish to post about GayThailand's temporary departure, this is the thread on which to do it. If you wish to post about moderators or post reaction to how I'm doing things, please place those posts on the "Equitable moderation" thread.

Very sorry, but just because other boards do it one way, that doesn't mean we are going to do it the same way here. I am not going to log on under two separate handles. Being a moderator does not mean that I have to forfeit my right to post just like anyone else. I think most people are intelligent enough to distinguish between "edict" and opinion without me having to be specific about it. If anyone is confused about it, all they need do is ask. Apparently many people are under the impression that the new moderation stance comes solely from me. It doesn't. This is something that all the moderators, including GayThailand, discussed and decided to do. Our goal is to get rid of the flame and insult posts that have plagued this board. We feel that if we let it go on the way it has, then it will eventually destroy this board and its intent. Some people seem to think that this message board is, or ought to be, a democracy. It isn't. It is a privately owned message board and those who wish to post here are going to have to abide by our policies. If we lose people because we're going to do things our way instead of their way, then we'll just have to try our best to survive the loss. I am well aware that my words about it have been harsh. That has been entirely intentional. Those who have thus far disregarded our wishes need to understand that this time we mean it. Up until now they don't seem to have understood anything else. So far it seems to be working. Other than that, there have been no changes whatsoever to the moderation policies here. I said, and meant, that I do not intend to moderate this board according to my own wishes. This board belongs to GayThailand. He has made it clear to the moderators how he wants us to do things and I am going to follow his wishes to the best of my ability.

That's a good idea. Considering that I've been the one subjected to the attacks, or whatever you wish to call them, all this time, I'd say I'm not the only one who doesn't forget. Ok, I hope you mean what you wrote above. I have no more to say about it.

The following appears in THE NATION: _____ All Eight Bangkok Bombs Likely Made by Same Bombmakers The explosive used in bombs at all eight sites on New Year's Eve was the same type and all were likely to have been made by the same skilled bombmakers, the commander of the police Office of Forensic Science, Pol Lt General Ek Angsananont, said Monday. The objects used as shrapnel, such as nails and bicycle wheel bearings, were of the same size and attached to the explosives by the same technique, he said. The type of the explosive will be positively known by the next week after confirmation by Australian explosives experts assisting the Office in identification process. Fingerprints were found with explosives material found at two bomb sites at Gaysorn Plaza and the Pratu Nam Pier, but they have not matched any of those belonging to criminals in police records. Initial findings show that all eights bombs had no relation or similarities in terms of assembly techniques with those used in the deep South by Muslim insurgents, Ek said. The Nation __________ The bombings also have hurt the lives of the poorest of the poor in Bangkok. The following appears in the BANGKOK POST: _____ Garbage Scavengers Fear More Bombs Removing Bins from City Streets will Make it Harder to Find Materials for Recycling Story by APIRADEE TREERUTKUARKUL Squatting low on the ground, Udom Yodudom uses a hammer to disassemble air-conditioner parts collected from rubbish dumps in a nearby housing area. He is hopeful the money he gets from selling the parts will be enough to feed all five members of his family for another day. "Although it's tiring and dangerous, earning money from selling other people's discarded waste is enough to get by compared to farming in my drought-ridden hometown," the Nakhon Sawan native says as he picks apart the air-conditioner. Mr. Udom's daily income varies depending on luck and what materials he can get his hands on. But he claims he can earn up to 15,000 baht a month from collecting bottles, tin cans, newspapers, used steel, copper and other scrap materials. His wife Somkuan says her family has been living and working at Soi Sua Yai Uthit, one of the city's major centres for selling recycled materials, for almost two years. The vast ghetto area, roughly the size of two football pitches, houses hundreds of families and shops, most of which buy recyclable materials before selling them on to middlemen, who then sell them to factories. A massive fire which previously hit the community failed to scare people away. But the recent bombs in Bangkok on New Year's Eve have made Mrs Somkuan more cautious when dipping her hands into garbage bins to rummage for cans and bottles and other refuse she can sell. "I don't know if I will find bottles or bombs when I go out early every morning," she says. She and her family have already changed their routine, leaving the house at around 6-7am instead of 2-3am as before. Any earlier than that and it's too dark to see what's inside the bins, she said. Several of the deadly bombs were planted in rubbish bins around the city on New Year's Eve before being detonated using timing devices. Three people were killed and dozens injured in the unprecedented attacks on the capital. The 38-year-old former resident of Nakhon Sawan's Lat Yao district also believes her family's income could be hit if the Bangkok Metropolitan Administration (BMA) removes rubbish bins from city streets as part of new security measures. Fewer bins means less opportunity to find recyclable waste and, ultimately, less money, Mrs. Somkuan says. However, Chuen Petchpaiboon, a 42-year-old motorcycle taxi driver, says the BMA's plan will have little effect on his side job of selling recyclable waste materials. He buys recyclable waste from households before selling it to a recycling shop in the community. "Collecting recycled rubbish from households needs a bit of financial investment. But it's safer than risking my life collecting waste at public dustbins and dumps which are full of shattered glass and diseases," he says. Somnuek Loychaeng, who has been running her recycling shop for over 15 years, is also confident that the blasts will have little effect on her business. She feels that herself and everyone else that makes a living out of trading recyclable waste will be able to carry on, even if city bins are taken off the streets for a while. There are still other places where people can collect recycled paper, plastic and other materials for selling, she said, including people's homes, retail shops and factories. "This job may not be considered honourable. But the money is good for us uneducated people and at least we don't have to steal or cheat to make a living," she said.

I don't understand your post, Kregger. Above you wrote, "So, please, Punya, get with the program and offer a SPECIAL PRICE for the YOUNG MEN (say 18 to 30 or 35) who just happen to be Thai." Now it seems that you are upset because he did just that. I don't get it.

Exactly. And that's just what I'm talking about because that's when it started. You had that board and I had mine. That's when you asked me for a link and that's when I refused it. I've been under attack by you ever since. I almost never say anything about it and I rarely "have a go" at you, but I'll bet anyone who has another look at most of your posts on this board will agree with what I said; that it's rare to see a post from you that doesn't include an unprovoked dig at terrible old Gaybutton.

Well, that just brings tears to my eyes. Considering that it's rare for you to post anything without including a completely unprovoked dig at me, three guesses about how much I give a damn about anything you have to say at all. What's the matter? Still angry because I refused to provide a link to that board of yours?

I do mean business, but I'm afraid you jumped to the conclusion that I am the one who took action on that post. It was not me. I'm not the only moderator here and it was another moderator who spotted the post and took quick action. He did so, rightly, because the post included the name and photos of the person being accused. We can't allow that. However, I reposted the original post with those items eliminated.

No, we haven't and we don't intend to. We're going to do what we think is best at our own discretion and we're not going to concern ourselves with whether what we do follows the precise letter of the code or not. We are not going to sit down and write a set of precise, specific rules as if we are trying to write law. I'll repeat what I stated in a post above: I'm sorry if that bothers you, but that's the way it's going to be. Also, this forum is not all about Ear Wig and his posts. I intend to treat Ear Wig, you, and everyone else in precisely the same manner. So far, the only posts we have eliminated are posts that attack others or go so far off on a tangent that they are not even remotely connected with the original topic. If it helps to figure out how we're going to do things here, I'm much closer to full agreement with Stef, buaseng and bkkguy than anyone else who has so far posted on this thread.

As far as I'm concerned, they already stand warned. I think I have made it clear what I'm going to do and I'm not going to get involved with a complex set of rules. I think it's quite simple . . . if someone wants to attack someone else, don't. What I can't do, and I'm sorry I can't, is take the advice of everyone who wants to offer it. It creates a damned if you do, damned if you don't situation for me, so I'm simply going to do it my way and quite frankly I couldn't care less who likes it and who doesn't. I'm trying to be as liberal about it as I can and I believe most people who knew how I operated my own board are already well aware that a great many posts have been allowed to stand here that never would have even seen the light of day on my board, but the decisions here are going to be made by Stef and me, along with Rainwalker if he is able to stay with us, and I'm not going to get into debates or arguments about it. Unfortunately, no matter how I do it, someone is going to be unhappy about it. The way I see it, better that they be the ones unhappy about it instead of me. As far as I can tell, the vast majority of people who visit this web site are sick and tired of the nonsense attack posts, thread hijackings, and flame wars. So are the moderators. It's not just me. All the moderators mean to put an end to it, and that's just what we're going to do. If a post gets deleted or a thread gets locked, please don't make the mistake of jumping to the conclusion that I'm necessarily the one who did it. I have a very simple philosophy regarding moderation of this board: If you like the way I do it, great. If you don't, tough luck. This thread was originally about GayThailand and his sabbatical. I reopened it so that people who wish to discuss it can do so. If anyone cares to get involved with a debate about how to run this board, please do so on the "Equitable moderation, a suggestion" thread. I don't know about anyone else, but I'd kind of like to get back to the original subject of this thread, which is why I agreed to reopen it.

Curiosity got the better of me and this evening I went to Sansuk to give it a try. First, I have some additions and corrections to my original post: 1. I had said that you cannot see into the exercise room. Wrong. Yes you can, from the pool side. I asked how I could possibly have failed to see that when I first visited. It turned out that they had it curtained off when I was there and I did not realize the exercise room was right behind the curtains. 2. Behind the pool there is a Jacuzzi. It's large and quite nice and bubbly, but it's a cold water Jacuzzi. I hope they decide to heat it. 3. As you face the Jacuzzi from the main lounge area, to the left there is a second steam sauna that I had not noticed before. It's small, but it's there. It's a herbal steam room. 4. I had posted about the volume of the large screen television. I was right about the volume being turned down during business hours. You would have to be right next to it to hear it, thank goodness. 5. The locker system is exactly like the Babylon. When you arrive you will be given a key and locker number attached to a wrist band. If you order anything to eat or drink, the fee will be charged to your locker number. When you are ready to leave the sauna, you turn in your key at the front desk and that's where and when you pay your food/bar bill. 6. When I visited the first time I was told they do have over-size towels for those of us who also are over-size. Well, no they don't. The towels are all standard size even if you ask for an over-size towel. So, if you happen to have too much extra padding to be able to wrap a standard size towel around yourself, then you better bring a large enough towel with you. The worst part was me going around the sauna in a towel. How nauseating. I'm only grateful there aren't many mirrors there. So, if you happen to be there while I'm there, you better bring a few barf bags. Unfortunately, the sauna doesn't supply them. 7. I was wrong about having no seating in the main steam room. Yes they do, on each end of the room. However, there is what I consider to be a design flaw. I sat down on the bench seat on the entrance side of the room. Apparently steam is sent out from directly underneath the bench seat. It nearly scalded my legs. I think they ought to do something about that, if they can. The other side of the room is fine, but if you sit down on the entrance side, be careful about the steam. Also, make sure you have a towel wrapped around you if you sit down on that side. The bench seat gets so hot that you can easily burn yourself without the towel insulating your skin from the bench seat. The main steam room is lit with subdued light, but not subdued enough. You can see from one side of the room to the other. I think it should be much darker in there. There seemed to be an equal number of Thais and "farang" this evening. Not one of the Thais were money boys. A couple of them had no inhibitions about total nudity at the pool or in the steam room. However, nude swimming in the pool is not allowed. The staff consists of some very cute boys. If you frequent the beach you'll probably recognize some of them. Sorry, no "off" is allowed and they are not allowed to accompany you in a privacy room, but they are at liberty to make arrangements with you during their non-working hours. Several people were having dinner there, although I did not take a look at what they were eating and did not look at the menu. Punya, the owner, was there this evening and is perfectly willing to listen to and consider suggestions. I think the biggest problem that needs to be overcome is transportation. Unless you like hiking up and down the long, steep hill from Thappraya Road to get there, then most of you will need to get there on a motorcycle taxi. That gets you there., but I saw no motorcycle taxis to get you back where you came from when you leave, so that means a hike all the way back up the hill to get to a motorcycle taxi or baht bus. All in all, I think Sansuk is definitely worth a try. Again, do not expect a clone of Babylon, but it was a very enjoyable experience and I'll be there again . . . . I come for the waters.

Ok, Wowpow. You've convinced me. I've reopened the thread and we'll try it that way. However, I leave open all my options, including the option to lock it again if it becomes necessary. Regarding transparency, there will be none. I am not going to get into arguments or justifications and I do not feel that I owe public explanations as to why things are done the way they're done. Sorry if that bothers you, but that's the way it's going to be. I've met you halfway. For the time being, that will have to do.

At Wowpow's suggestion I have reopened this thread so that posting with regard to the original intent of the thread can continue. However, please be aware that those who try to post attacks or hijack this thread, or any other thread, will find that their posts don't last very long.

The exchange rate between the baht and other currencies has remained stable, without the predicted weakening of the baht following the bombings in Bangkok. Aa of the closing rates on Monday, January 8, the exchange rate has remained essentially the same since before the bombings occurred. The following are the latest exchange rates: US dollar: 35.72 Euro: 46.37 British pound: 68.95 Australian dollar: 27.66 Canadian dollar: 30.2975

Good news, gents. It will not be necessary to make the suggestion to Sansuk. They've beaten us to it. Today at the beach I spoke to a young man who was handing out fliers for Sansuk. I brought up the issue of attracting Thais. He informed me that the policy already is as follows: Admission for Thais age 25 or less: Free Admission for Thais age 26 or more: 90 baht I asked if there is a clientele of boys yet. He said last night about 20 boys showed up and word is quickly spreading among the boys about the free admission. He also said the best time to come, if you are looking for boys, is after 8:00PM.

Give me time. I'm going to try several methods to put a stop to this nonsense, and I will also try your suggestion. I'm trying to handle this in a manner that I believe GayThailand would handle it or would want it handled, but it's too soon to engrave anything in stone just yet. I can assure you that one way or another it will be handled. When I find the method that works best and seems to be satisfactory to all concerned, except of course to the offending posters, that's what I'll probably stick with. I'm not going to reopen locked threads, but I have no objection if anyone wants to create a new thread in order to continue the original discussion. However, as soon as I see posts that are inappropriate to the thread and/or degenerate the thread to the attacks and counter attacks, there are three things I can do. One is to lock the thread. One is to delete the offending posts. One is to do both. I will not partially edit posts. People will either post properly or they'll find either the thread locked or their post gone. I'm trying my best, but it isn't always easy trying to deal with people who think they get to ignore the rules or just make up their own rules.

Yes, although that's just about the limit of the gay beach area. If you are coming up the walkway from the 7-Eleven - Police Box area, the gay beach area starts just beyond the Avalon Hotel. You'll see the circular public restroom. That's where it starts. Once you get as far as the Rabbit Resort, that's about where it ends. Most of the boys sit closer to the public restroom area up to the "Jim's Beach" concession. It starts to thin out after that.

Like anything else, it is a question of being in the right place at the right time. Without knowing what you consider to be the most attractive boys, I suggest being at the beach between 1:30 to 2:00PM. That's when most of the boys start showing up. Some days a great many boys come to the beach and some days they don't. You never know. It also helps to make sure you are sitting in the gay beach area. I once received an E-mail from someone who couldn't understand why he was never able to find boys at the beach. After a few E-mails went back and forth, I finally realized the problem was he was sitting at the wrong part of the beach. If you spot a boy you find attractive and is not already otherwise engaged with a "farang," simply smile and signal him to come over to you or go up to him and say hello. Usually, that's all it takes. Only yesterday one of my closest friends, who almost never comes to the beach, surprised us all by putting in an appearance. It didn't take him long to realize what he had been missing all this time. Only two seats away he spotted a boy who was extremely attractive to him. He signaled the boy to come over. Needless to say, my friend did not leave the beach alone. Somehow, I have a feeling he won't be such a stranger at the beach anymore. I have two suggestions if you find a boy at the beach who you wish to take with you or arrange to meet later in the evening. The first is to pay his beach bill. It probably won't amount to more than around 100 baht or so because most beach boys who are there looking for "farang" can't afford to run up a bill more expensive than that. The second suggestion is to make sure he has his national ID card with him. Check his age. This year, on the Thai calendar, is 2550. That means his birth year has to be 2532 or earlier for him to be 18 years old. Since this is still the early part of January, then I would suggest making sure he was born in 2531 or earlier to be sure he has actually reached his 18th birthday. Also, you want to make sure he has his ID card with him when you take him back to your room. That's your only security. Without the ID card you have no way of knowing who he is, in case of any trouble. Make sure the front desk checks his ID card to make sure it's really his and that he is also of legal age. Also make sure the front desk holds his ID card while he is with you and will not give it back unless you personally accompany him when he leaves or they call your room to make sure everything is ok. Make sure the boy understands that.

I agree and think Kregger has come up with a great idea, considering the reason most "farang" go to gay saunas in the first place. The average Thai boy cannot afford the 180 baht admission price, and that's only the introductory price. Having a special price, or even free admission, for anyone, Thai, 'farang,' or anything else, between whatever ages are appropriate might be just the thing that could make Sansuk quickly become highly popular and attract a sizable clientele. The Sansuk business card shows the E-mail address as info@sansukpattaya.com . Perhaps it would be helpful to send that suggestion to them via E-mail.