Gaybutton

Does your kitchen sink have a sprayer hose? Mine does. That is also made out of flexible tubing. So, that's one law I don't get unless sprayers of any kind are banned indoors where you live.

Yes, I really do believe that. It's not just rents and salaries that constitute the cost of running a bar. The bars are there to provide us with what we go to them to seek. The last time I checked, businesses are out there to make a profit, not to be satisfied with breaking even or taking a loss. If you don't believe it, sit down with a bar owner some time and discuss what it costs to run the bar, and then compare that to the amount the bar grosses each month. When you see how much net is left over, you may not be so upset about the current prices. Another thing you can believe: If the bars were reaping in huge profits, then why have so many failed and gone out of business? Do you really believe if they were raking in the money they would have closed up shop? Even now that we're getting into high season, many of the bars are still nearly empty. It's a little difficult to maintain a bar business when you're only selling a dozen drinks or so per night, if you're even selling that many. I'm just grateful they haven't yet had to raise the prices any higher than they are now. Just as an example, if a person goes to three average Pattayaland bars in a night and buys one drink in each of them, he just spent 450 baht, the current equivalent of US $13. Maybe in that third bar he calls a boy over and buys a drink for him. Another 150 baht. Now your evening has cost you about US $17.50. Maybe he takes the boy "off" for 300 baht. Now he's spent 900 baht, the equivalent of about US $27. He takes the boy back to his room for sex and tips him 1000 baht. Now the total he just spent for an evening out in the go-go bars, drinks, and even sex with a boy of his own choosing is roughly US $56. Most people will probably end up actually spending much less than that, but never mind. Does that really seem like an outrageous amount to you for a night of drinks, go-go boys, and sex? If it does, then let's go back a few years when drinks cost 100 baht and the "off" fee was 200 baht. That same evening out would have cost, at current exchange rates, 500 baht less, taking into consideration the three drinks, the drink for the boy, and the "off" fee. It's a difference of about US $12. A few years ago, that night out would have cost US $44. Now it costs US $56, and that's in most Pattayaland bars, and that's if you're spending the max and tipping the max. Most people will actually spend far less. The drink prices and "off" fees in most Sunee Plaza bars are much less.

I don't quite agree with you on that. I don't think it's appropriate to post personal information about anyone without their permission. I think privacy should be respected and I don't see any justification for some people to post messages that are designed to insult, embarrass, accuse, or otherwise upset people. I believe if someone tells someone else something in confidence, then it should remain so and not end up on a message board. I believe if someone dislikes someone else, then it should be taken up personally, either by meeting with the person or having their argument by PM. I don't think a message board is where all this nonsense should appear. For example, EarWig has an obvious dislike for the "White Sox Brigade." Well, who gives a damn about that? That's his problem and something he should take up directly with them. What the hell is anything about it doing on this message board? Perhaps it gives some people a good laugh, but I don't see anything funny about it at all. What's the funny part? And I'm not trying to single out EarWig. Far from it. Many others do the same thing, quite often completely unprovoked. As far as I'm concerned, keep personal arguments, accusations, and hatreds to yourselves.

Someone else will have to answer that one. I haven't eaten there in nearly two years.

A group of us tried the BBQ. All of us thought it was excellent and we don't know how he can do it for 220 baht. The way it works is Eric has the boys outside doing the grilling, and then they bring plates of it inside. Eric brings over the selections to your table and you take what you want. You can have as much as you want. Eric just keeps bringing more. There were choices of BBQ chicken, pork chops, steaks, meatballs, kebobs, and sausages, all cooked to perfection and served hot. Some nights he has seafood available too. Eric has also greatly improved the salad bar as well, just within the past few days. Now it includes several more salad choices, more dressing choices, and more dessert choices. This is one of the best bargains in town. We were a group of eleven and all of us were delighted, impressed, and intend to be regulars.

I think the prices are high too, but so are gasoline prices. It's either pay the price or stop driving your car. In the bars, it's either pay the price or do without the bars. Most Sunee Plaza bars are still less expensive than the Pattayaland bars, but not by much. I don't think it helps very much to factor in the exchange rates when considering how much bars should charge. If the exchange rate was still at 45 baht to the US dollar, as it was for so many years, then there probably wouldn't be so many complaints. The bars can't set their prices according to exchange rates. They have to set their prices according to domestic costs. For many years the drink prices at most bars was about 100 baht and "off" fees were 200 baht. Inflation affects Thailand too, you know. Prices everywhere have increased. A month from now the baht bus prices are going up too. Restaurants and hotels are raising their prices. Just about everything in Thailand is going through inflation. I don't see how the bars have any choice if they are to survive. While I don't enjoy paying the higher prices, I'd rather pay it and have the bars than end up with hardly any bars or even no bars at all. That's not nonsense. It really could happen. There are a lot fewer bars now than there were six or seven years ago, and I'm seeing more closings than openings.

That could happen whether you're home or not. Any pipe can eventually burst. If I were going away on a long holiday, then I'd also shut off the water supply to my home from the outside. Most houses have a valve outside that does just that. If you live in an apartment or condo, then if you don't know how to shut the water off while you are away, I'd ask the building management and maintenance people how to do it. It seems like a problem easy enough to prevent.

Are you through? I really don't want to be deleting posts or locking threads, but if we're going to have more pissing contests, that's what's going to happen to those sorts of posts. Once again, please use the PM function for these kinds of messages and not the message board.

May I ask how you know just what happened? From what Eric tells me, he left because he chose to leave and was not fired. Either way, I don't think it's our business to get into this at all. The fact is that Eric is no longer with the Clubber group and there have been several stories floating around as to why and what happened. Only those directly involved know the real story, so let's not start posting rumors that may or may not be true.

Make sure to keep telling him that. So will I. I guess I was in there either before the DJ tweaked the volume or after Louis made him turn it down. I would love for someone to explain why so many bars do everything they can to keep the music volume as loud as possible when they have to know that most of their customers don't like it and it actually drives customers away, as you say. That's true. That's one reason why if you're looking for me, then don't bother looking in a disco or karaoke. Every one of them have the volume so loud that my ears literally throb for at least an hour after leaving. It amazes me that half of Thailand isn't deaf . . . yet. You won't find me in any of those places, that's for sure. The law says the music volume can't be above 90 decibels. Even His Majesty, the King, about a year or so ago, stated that music volume in these places shouldn't be so loud. So, why do they do it? Is there anyone, other than the boys (and I'm not so sure about all of them), who actually likes the volume so loud? This is one that's already on my "I don't get it" list and it's been on my list for a very long time.

I hope you'll spare me that. Yes, prices in Pattayaland seem to have adopted a standard of 150 baht per drink, both alcoholic and non alcoholic, and 300 baht per "off" in most bars.

Ok, I will. Thread locked.

I don't mind if you come right out and say you are referring to the matchmaking service I ran on my former web site. It was legitimate and many people formed wonderful, lasting relationships that are still ongoing as a result of it. I'm proud of what I did, despite the constant barrage of accusations that I was nothing more than a pimp. I do, however, deeply resent your implication that I post against under-age sex while participating in it myself. I have never knowingly been involved with an under-age boy and if you're trying to accuse me of it, or trying to say that I'm a hypocrite, then you are dead wrong.

I'm going to retract a bit of what I originally wrote about Honey Boy. This evening I stopped in and spent some time there. The music volume is now at an acceptable level, loud, but not too loud. The lighting is good and the colors are very nice, almost art decco. The ceiling sports two crystal chandeliers (reminded me of the opening of Phantom of the Opera). There is a good selection of boys, some dancing and some doing the "one-knee shuffle." The entertaining mama-san is Mama Laila, who had been across the street at Wild West Boys. But be careful. Mama Laila can be on the pushy side and is likely to try to get you to buy a drink for her. There was one thing I did not like at all. I was there during the 'happy hour,' from opening time until 10:00 when drinks are 99 baht. The price reverts to 150 baht at 10:00. But that's your price. I discovered that if you buy a drink for a boy, a waiter, the mama-san, or any other employee of the bar, then their drinks cost you 150 baht each no matter what time it is. The "off" fee is 300 baht.

I certainly hope so. I'm on your side regarding the idea that JBee has a point of view, posted intelligently, made his point, included his reasons why he believes what he believes, and I think what he has to say is worthy of debate, rather than people simply trying to blow him off through ridicule. So far, nobody seems to have sided with his point of view and so far he has not returned to further argue his position. Some people are making fun of him. I think doing that negates the possibility of debating his point intelligently and I am guessing he might have already returned if people were posting proper responses rather than ridiculing him. I hope he does return, but my guess is he may be wondering why he should if all that is going to happen will be further ridicule. If that is why he has not returned, I can't say that I blame him. I think he knew damned well his post would provoke responses, but I also think he was hoping for a more serious debate about the issues he raises.

Sticky boys would be better . . .

Then why did you break up with me so soon after? What did you do, sober up and finally have a good look?

Last night I went to the new Tai Boyz Boyz bar, in Pattayaland Soi 1. Those who have been coming to Pattaya long enough probably remember the old Tai Boyz Boyz bar on the same soi. Louis, the Thai owner, eventually closed that bar and opened a new bar directly across the street in the location of a bar called City Boys. He changed the name of the bar to Gacuya. Some time ago, Louis closed Gacuya. Now he has opened a brand new bar and the name is back to Tai Boyz Boyz. I have always really like Louis. He's a very nice guy and he treats the boys working for him quite well. The boys who work for him always seem to like him and consider him to be very "jai dee." I'm really glad to see Louis making a comeback. I asked him what happened to Gacuya and why he decided to open a new bar for a third time. He said he just couldn't make it at Gacuya because the building owner was charging him 140,000 baht per month rent. Between that, along with all the other expenses of running a bar and salaries for the boys, combined with the diminishing numbers of customers in the past few years, he simply was unable to continue. He was able to make a deal at his new location and the rent is 60,000 baht per month. He said at that price, he thinks he can make a go of it again. I really like the bar. The seating is comfortable, the mama-sans and waiters are not pushy, the bathroom is clean, there are plenty of boys to suit most tastes (but sorry, muscle-boy lovers, there were none), and all the boys appeared to be at least 18 years old. I was also grateful that the music volume was at an acceptable level. I was there with a friend and we easily conversed without having to shout. We didn't even have to raise our voices at all in order to be heard. That alone is going to make Tai Boyz Boyz one of my 'first choice' bars. The prices are on par with most of the Pattayaland bars. Drinks are 150 baht and the "off" fee is 300 baht. Give Tai Boyz Boyz a try. I think many people are going to really like it and will become regulars there.

I really can't say something to the effect of "this venue has under-age boys and this one doesn't" because it changes too often. Also, I'm damned if I do and damned if I don't. If I don't specify which venues employ under-age boys, then I get accused of condoning it. If I do specify those venues, then I get accused of leading the pedophiles right to where they want to go. In other words, no matter what I do, somebody doesn't like what I do. There really is no way to be certain that every available boy working in a particular venue actually is at least 18 years old without checking the ID cards of every employee. Even then, many boys change to a new bar as often as you change your socks, hoping to find a place to work where the grass is greener, so there would be no way to keep up with it even if it was practical to try. In other words, an adult ought to be capable of figuring out for himself which bars are "safe," as you put it. You can't rely on a message board for this sort of information and, as a moderator here, I'm not going to allow someone to place the responsibility on my shoulders of keeping track of the venues and the ages of their employees.

Considering how much intercourse is available in Pattaya, I'm hardly surprised. Was any contumely with Bangkok necessary?

In the words of the great Col. Sherman T. Potter, "Horse hockey!" You are entitled to your opinion, but as a moderator of this board I don't recall posting anything saying that Sunee Plaza is all cleaned up. I have posted, however, that the under-age boy problem isn't confined to just Sunee Plaza. It's not our fault that these bars hire under-age boys. In my opinion, it becomes our fault if we start calling the under-age boys to sit with us, buy drinks for them, give money to them, and "off" them. Those same bars also have plenty of boys who are at least age 18. If there is any doubt in someone's mind as to the age of the boy, then it's easy to check his ID card. If the boy comes up with some excuse as to why he has no ID card available, then that's when to say so long to the boy. You're complaining and accusing the wrong people. I see no reason not to patronize any bar one wishes, provided that the customer sticks to boys at least 18 years old. You need to take your complaint to those who are in control, such as the police, the mayor's office, the governor's office, and to the bar owners themselves. A message board has no control over the situation, nor does its owners or moderators. I'd love for the buck to stop here. If that was possible then the situation really would have been cleaned up long ago. But since there is no way for the buck to stop here, then we only pass it along to where it can stop. We report about the bars themselves, what they're like, costs for drinks and "off" fees, etc. We do not try to organize boycotts or campaigns to 'clean up' the area. It would be an exercise in futility. Only the customers themselves have the ability to control which bars they patronize and which boys they seek. The boards have no ability to become surrogate police. We do allow bars to promote themselves and we allow posts that promote them, often knowing full well that these are bars that hire under-age boys. We're not here to try to shut down bars that hire under-age boys. We're here to warn people of the consequences of engaging in sex with under-age boys and people have to make their own decisions. We have no intention of taking a stance that says, in effect, "let's destroy the gay bars in Pattaya in order to save them." Based on your post, that is my interpretation of what you would like us to try to do. Sorry, you won't get cooperation from us in that regard. If you want to be self righteous, tell us we're rationalizing if we do not share your opinion, or blame us, in part or entirely, for the situation regarding under-age boys in Sunee Plaza or anywhere else, go right ahead. Those, however, are accusations I do not accept.

You do not need the stamp. The decision to require it was done away with. You can come directly to Pattaya.

This evening I dropped by the new Guys Bar in Soi Day-Night. Many of you remember Lek's bar, which has been closed for a couple of years already. Now it's open again, still adjoining the Day-Night Hotel, and now under the name Guys Bar. It is virtually identical to the way it was when it was Lek's Bar. There were ten go-go boys on stage while I was there. The restroom is absolutely spotless, one of the nicest and cleanest I have encountered in any gay bar in Pattaya. The music volume was loud, but not uncomfortably so. Drink prices are 120 baht each. I didn't ask about "off" fees, but it's probably 250 baht.

For those of you who enjoyed the now closed Clubber's restaurant in Sunee Plaza, your disappointment is over. Eric has opened his new bistro restaurant at none other than Sammy's at the Marina Inn Plaza Hotel, also in Sunee Plaza. It's at the Po Pot end of Sunee Plaza, almost next door to the Jim Jimmy James bar. The name of the restaurant will remain "Sammy's," but Eric is there and he's the boss. It shows! He is continuing his wonderful Saturday meatloaf special and his Tuesday Coq au Vin special, at 180 baht per person. It's an incredible price and a fabulous bargain. Eight of us ate at Sammy's tonight and all of us were commenting that the food is even better than it was at Clubber's. His salad bar still includes his delicious potato salad, along with fruits, breads, and several salad choices. He also puts out dessert now, a great apple tart. There is no limit to the number of times you can return to the salad bar. There are small item choices too every night, but his BBQ special is now available every night, even on the nights when he serves his specials. The BBQ includes chicken, pork chops, steaks, meatballs . . . you name it. It's an all you can eat BBQ and it's only 220 baht per person. Let's see you beat that elsewhere. Many of his former staff members went with Eric to his new location and the excellent service is just as good as ever. We're all delighted that Eric decided to remain in the restaurant business and the location is literally a stone's throw from Clubber's. Congratulations Eric! I'm sure that when people give Sammy's a try, many will become regulars. It's great food at excellent prices. Don't miss it.

Someone else will have to be the photographer. I don't have a camera that's any good at night. As for Boxer, I understand he has been ill, but I have no details.