Gaybutton

Does that matter? The boy is spending time with you at your request. How much money are you going to save by denying him a tip for spending time with you, let alone two of you?

I'm not following what you're trying to say. At minimum a double tip would be expected if he is going to be spending his time with two customers taking him off, whether sex is involved or not. I don't think it would be reasonable to expect a boy to accept two for the price of one. I could see tipping for one if one customer takes the boy off, goes to dinner or something with him, and a friend just happens to be there and joins you - and no sex is involved. That's entirely different.

That depends on what the tip was for. If it was a tip for having your drink served to you and nothing more, I too would have tipped 20 baht. However, if you called a boy over to sit with you, I think the tip should have been at least 100 baht. If a boy plops himself down next to me uninvited, and it's a boy I didn't want sitting with me, he gets no tip and no drink. What he does get is shooed away or ignored.

The only bar in Sunee Plaza I see making a real effort to at least try is All of Me. Even bars that had been hosting events seem to have stopped. I had planned to go to All of Me's event this evening, but unfortunately the weather is not cooperating. Here's what's going on at All of Me this month:

As one of those locals I think you have it backwards. I, for one, used to be in Sunee Plaza regularly. Now I rarely go at all - maybe 2 or 3 times a month, if even that often. For a long time I've been trying to get the bar owners to do things to bring back the 'fun factor' in their bars. That's what they need to do. I'm not here to support businesses doing virtually nothing to attract me as a customer and I'm not here to be spending my money as part of saving their businesses for them. Why do you think many of the locals stopped going? The way I see it, those businesses need to attract us if they want high numbers of locals to start returning. If and when they start doing that, I'll be right back in Sunee regularly. I have a feeling many other locals see it as I do. Don't forget, the locals don't need the bars to find all the boys they want. If Sunee Plaza really does eventually go under, I won't like it any more than everyone else. I will be very disappointed if that happens and will feel that all of us have lost something special. But don't blame the locals. If the bar owners would finally wake up and listen, I see no reason why Sunee Plaza couldn't be thriving again, just like only a few years ago when you were lucky to even get a seat in many of the bars. In my opinion, it's the bar owners who need to make the effort, not the locals.

I would love to see Sunee Plaza make a comeback to a thriving gay bar area. I don't want to see Sunee Plaza end up only a memory, but now gay farang customers are way down compared to years ago and it's the middle of low season. Meanwhile most of the bar owners are doing nothing to try to attract more customers. Beats me as to why, but if they're not going to do anything except open, display a few of boys spending most of their time staring into their mobile phones, and do nothing other than just hoping customers will come, what do they expect? At a time like this I would have thought the bar owners would get together and plan events and activities that would draw in the customers, but they don't. In my opinion, the bar owners have no one to blame but themselves.

Willy Clark (pounding on his TV): "Come on, you piece of crap, work already! Lousy Japs - they lost the war, so they send us their junk." - Walter Matthau (Willy Clark), 'The Sunshine Boys'

I was talking about scams in general and I thought I made it clear that the vast majority of scam victims are the Thais themselves. Firecat69 has been saying that most farang do not end up as scam victims. In fact, in post 22 in this topic I wrote, "I agree with firecat69. The Thais themselves are the scam victims far more often than farang. Then again, there are a far more Thais in Thailand than there are farang.." Where do you see a difference of opinion between firecat69 and me or anything that needs to be reconciled?

If you already said it earlier, I missed it. How do you know?

I don't understand the argument as to whether this phone purchase was a scam. What difference does it make whether it's called a scam or something else? The point, as I see it, is it happened, makes an interesting story, and is in keeping with the topic. Personally, I don't care whether it's labeled 'scam' or not. As far as I can tell from these posts, bucknaway intentionally bought a copy phone he knew to be counterfeit. The place he purchased it from switched it for a lesser quality phone. When anyone knowingly buys a counterfeit phone, he's also gambling on the length of time it will work, if it works at all. It might work a day or two, maybe a month or two. I have yet to see a counterfeit phone that worked longer than three or four months. If you buy a counterfeit and it doesn't work, then: "Of course, Dear. What did you expect?" - Gladys Cooper (Mrs. Higgins), 'My Fair Lady'

I'd like to be a fly on the wall if you're inspected and find yourself having to explain to a customs officer what you're doing trying to bring in a counterfeit telephone. Why do I think customs might have a little problem accepting that explanation? While I realize this video has nothing to do with scams in Thailand, since you brought up telephone scams, I just had to share my all time favorite - just for fun: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mtKzp1qb6SE

It would be a little difficult for me to post about scams I'm not aware of . . . I can't answer your questions any better than you can, although I don't see the fast talking used car salesman as an example of a scam. If you're sold a car that wasn't theirs to sell in the first place, that would be a scam. If you want to see perfect examples of scams, all you need to do is watch "Judge Judy." I really don't want to get into the finer points of what does or does not constitute a scam. I see this topic as really meaning to be stories about incidents that unexpectedly removed cash from us rather than having to fit in with a precise definition of the word 'scam.' Many of us are going to disagree anyway about what is or is not a scam For example, at Christmas and New Year many Thailand hotels serve mandatory holiday buffet dinners that their guests will be charged for whether they want the dinner or not. Quite often the guest was never told in advance about the mandatory buffets. Even guests who become ill and can't even eat are going to be charged. Is that a scam? I can't say whether that fits the definition of a scam or not, but I'll bet some people reading this topic found out the hard way about those buffets. I'd like see those kinds of stories posted rather than worrying about whether they're actually within the definition of a scam. I agree with firecat69. The Thais themselves are the scam victims far more often than farang. Then again, there are a far more Thais in Thailand than there are farang.

Some people no longer take LOS to mean Land of Smiles. For many, now LOS means Land of Scams. There are so many scams in Thailand that it would take me at least a two or three days to post just the ones I'm aware of. One of my favorite scams is getting people to invest in a condo that has yet to be built. Then construction is never even started and the owner disappears with all the money.

You have your opinion and I have mine. You have your experience and I have mine. I'm glad the boards seem to have finally reached a point at which board members can discuss and even vehemently disagree with each other without insults, put-downs, and name calling. I hope those days are over.

Apparently our ideas about how to treat others with respect are quite different. You're focused on the idea of writing an offer on the back of a card. I see nothing disrespectful about that. Neither do any of the boys I've ever handed a card to.

Bring 'em. Bring 'em. The more the merrier. If it's really my lucky day, we'll empty out the entire male hotel staff . . .

Not me. And especially not me if he makes signals. Of course I'm not insensitive enough to do anything that would put his job in jeopardy. Some hotels couldn't care less while others would fire him immediately if he came to my room for any reason other than normal hotel business. In that circumstance if he really is interested I would arrange to meet him somewhere other than the hotel during his non-working hours and if things go any further than saying hello, if we go to another hotel, a short time room, his room, or anywhere other than the hotel where I'm staying, what's the problem?

So that's it. All this time, the night we had dinner together I thought it was your leg bumping into me . . .

Do you actually believe the Thai boys, whether they work in a hotel or not, would interpret it that way? I don't. I haven't used the "card trick" very often and I've never used it on a boy who didn't set off my "gaydar" and gave some sort of prior indication, verbal or non verbal, that he might be interested. I've never had even a hint of a negative reaction. Did you think I was suggesting to just walk up to a total stranger, someone you've never seen before and have never had contact with of any kind, and hand him a card? If that's what you were thinking, Wrong. I wouldn't do that either. Common sense does apply. But if I've at least had some sort of contact and got the impression there is a good chance he would be interested, but couldn't bring myself to talk to him, then I see nothing wrong at all with handing him the card - with or without the offer written on the back. The OP made it clear he can't work up the nerve to simply talk to the boy and see if it leads to anything. That's what I think he should do if he is really interested in the boy. I wouldn't do it in a way that could embarrass him in front of other people, but I see nothing wrong or sleazy about trying the "card trick" as an alternative. I also don't know where you get the idea that they stereotype us as creeps, sleazy, or any other negatives. I've neither seen nor experienced anything to back up that idea. Not ever. There might be a few who see us that way, but as far as I can tell, that would be very few.

Guilty

If they were selling their own brother, I might be interested - not in a sale, but perhaps a rental. Perhaps a 'try before you buy' offer is in there somewhere . . . Regarding being judged, as far as I'm concerned judge away. "GB, you are accused of being a sleaze - a dirty old man. How do you plead?" "Guilty."

I don't agree at all. We're talking about Thailand and Thai thinking. Also, if people were propositioning my relatives, so what? If there is a reason why that should bother me, I don't know what it is. I see absolutely nothing wrong with it and you can believe - if I'm in a hotel and see a staff member who interests me, the only thing I care about is what the Thai boy thinks. And it has been my experience that many of them are delighted. If in your eyes that makes me a sleaze, then I'm a sleaze - and I plan on continuing to be a sleaze. When you're in Thailand, what are you here to do? Why do I have a feeling visiting the various wats is not the main item on your priority list? As soon as I find myself interested in a set of rules as to where it is and is not acceptable to try to pick up a boy, you'll be the first one I'll ask.

If you're that sexy, to the point boys would put their jobs in jeopardy to proposition you, can I have your phone number?

Your only problem might be the hotel staff rules. Higher end hotels sometimes forbid hotel staff 'fraternizing' with guests, even during non-working hours. Even in that eventuality, if you do find a willing guy, no law says you have to meet in your hotel room. You could always arrange to meet somewhere else, away from the hotel, during his non working hours and go to another hotel, a short time room, or his own room. Sometimes, if you're lucky, the boy will make his availability obvious. These boys are probably paid around 10,000 to 12,000 baht per month. The opportunity to make some more can be quite attractive. I think it's best to talk face-to-face, but some people, especially newbies, are just too shy or feel too awkward to simply talk to the boy and tell him you would like to see him. If that's you, use your card. The last thing you need to worry about would be them asking what you mean. Believe me, they all know exactly what you mean. You could even write 1000 baht, or whatever price you have in mind, on the back of the card, perhaps with a smiley face too. I guarantee they'll understand what you mean. None of them will go to management or the police. Why should they? You haven't committed some sort of crime by asking for a date. Hotels always have their rules posted somewhere in the rooms. Unless one of the rules says, "You are not allowed to ask our hotel staff for a date", you haven't done anything wrong. I've never heard of any such problem. You're worrying about a problem that doesn't exist. I've handed my own card several times to hotel staff boys I like. When I do, I usually say something such as, "I like you. If you can have time for me later, I hope you will call." Sometimes they do and sometimes they don't, but none of them are likely to embarrass you in any way. Nothing like that has ever happened to me and I don't know anyone who has had that happen. The worst that can happen is you'll get a smile, but no call. I can honestly say I get the call more than half the times I've done that. If you find a hotel staff worker you like, you have absolutely nothing to lose by trying. Unless you have leprosy or something, chances are very good with at least one of them you will get precisely the response you're hoping for.

Don't we get to see any of those photos?