Gaybutton

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Ahaaaa! Thank you. I didn't know that. You've also explained something that had been puzzling me - the profiles where there is a pic, but nothing else. It never occurred to me that creating a profile with a smartphone would be different from creating one with a computer. I would imagine since so many boys now have a smartphone, they don't go to internet shops as often as they used to.

Also, when you are on GR, don't forget to check their guestbook to see what others have to say about them, although I can do without some of those inane comments such as "hot boy" or "handsome boy." Thanks very much for pointing out the absolutely obvious. The incredibly obvious would have done just fine. And what on earth are some of the guestbook artists thinking, along with some who post long winded poetry that the boy can't possibly understand, even if he gave a damn about it? But many of the guestbooks do contain good information about the boy. My eyebrows raise when the boy has his guestbook disabled. I also am skeptical of guestbook posts by people obviously very angry at the boy, especially when the boy can't tell his side of the story. Also, if you are a frequent flier on GR, my eyebrows also raise when I see a boy who has multiple profiles and/or creates a new profile a little bit too often. I can understand why some boys think it's a good idea to appear as if he is a "new" boy, but some overdo it.

I would agree as long as it has been made clear to the boy what you want, what you are expecting him to do, and he has agreed. Then, if he shows up but won't do what he said he would do, that's when I think it is legitimate to send him away. I have only very rarely had a dud. In all the years I've lived here, I've only had a boy who didn't live up to expectations twice. To avoid problems I will still give him what I agreed to give him. I'll manage to survive without the money. I just never have him back a second time. And, gentlemen, make sure, if the boy turns out to be a non-performer, that it isn't your fault. Are you freshly showered and shaved? Are you dressed decently? Is your bed made? Have you been drinking? Are you demanding that he do things he didn't know in advance you're going to want him to do? Are you treating him well or treating him as if he is nothing more than a sex object whose very existence means nothing more than giving you a nice, satisfying cum? The most common complaint about farang I hear from the boys is that the farang only cares about himself and sex, and obviously doesn't give the first shit about the boy other than using him for sex. If you happen to be one of those, does it really take much to figure out why the boy doesn't want to give you a stellar performance? We've all seen posts from some of these arrogant assholes who look down their noses at the boys and refer to them as whores and other demeaning terms - and they treat them that way. Meanwhile, those very same boys are the reason those farang are in Thailand in the first place. If you're not treating him well, especially if you're treating him like a worthless whore, even if that's precisely your perception of him, three guesses how to expect him to treat you.

If that ever happens, I'll let you know.

A boy who doesn't look like the photos is not necessarily a bad thing. I've posted this before - I've had that happen to me only once with a Planet Romeo boy. The boy who showed up was definitely not the same boy in the photos. For me, that worked out beautifully. I found him far more attractive than the boy in the photos and he was awesome. I've been seeing him regularly ever since.

Huh? What are you talking about?

I am very well aware of that. Even so, if I take a boy off from a bar, no matter what time, no matter where we go or what we do, and no matter what I'm paying for, from me he's still going to get a tip. If sex is not involved, maybe it will be less of a tip, but it isn't going to kill me to give him a few hundred baht - and since there are no customers he's going to need it. What's the point of not giving him a tip? Even if he's agreed to go and it was made clear to him and he understands there would be no tip, you can bet he's still hoping for a tip anyway. He'll be getting one from me. I have a feeling you would do the same. While maybe the boy would be happy to be taken to whatever and have his expenses paid, if it's a boy I've taken off from a bar and like well enough to do these things with him, I'm going to send him home happier. I agree with gerefan's post above.

Then give him a tip. Why on earth you won't goes beyond me.

That's fine. That's not what I'm disputing. I'm not talking about the other guy just happening to be there and tagging along. If I'm in a bar with a farang friend, take a boy off, and my friend continues to stick with us, I'm not expecting him to tip the boy too. That would be ridiculous. I'm talking about both taking the boy off, together, to do together whatever it is they want to do with the boy - sex, drinking, chatting, or something else. Also, just because a tip isn't offered, but the boy accepts the off knowing that, it doesn't mean you shouldn't tip him at least something. What do you think they're working in the bars for - hoping a farang will come along, take them off, and buy drinks for them? Since you say you're generous about everything else, I'm having a lot of trouble trying to understand why in this instance when it's time to call it a night, you won't just give the boy a few hundred baht and send him on his way. I'm going to repeat my questions: If you call a boy over to sit with you in the bar and you buy drinks for him while he's sitting with you, aren't you supposed to tip him? Why should taking him off be any different?

Is there some reason you shouldn't? What you're saying about how much you give under other circumstances is generous, maybe overly generous. I don't question that and I have no argument with that. But I don't see how any of that is relevant to this particular argument. If you take a boy off from a bar, you're supposed to tip him for his time no matter what you're doing with him. If you call a boy over to sit with you in the bar and you buy drinks for him while he's sitting with you, aren't you supposed to tip him? Why should taking him off be any different? Your question about should you have to pay the bar double if two customers are taking one boy together, my answer would be no. The bar has its fee for taking a boy off whether it's one or a dozen customers. But tipping the boy is a different story. If a dozen customers are taking the same boy off together, then yes, I think a dozen customers should tip him. You said, "Nobody is denying anybody a tip here." In this circumstance, from where I sit that's precisely what you're doing.

Does that matter? The boy is spending time with you at your request. How much money are you going to save by denying him a tip for spending time with you, let alone two of you?

I'm not following what you're trying to say. At minimum a double tip would be expected if he is going to be spending his time with two customers taking him off, whether sex is involved or not. I don't think it would be reasonable to expect a boy to accept two for the price of one. I could see tipping for one if one customer takes the boy off, goes to dinner or something with him, and a friend just happens to be there and joins you - and no sex is involved. That's entirely different.

That depends on what the tip was for. If it was a tip for having your drink served to you and nothing more, I too would have tipped 20 baht. However, if you called a boy over to sit with you, I think the tip should have been at least 100 baht. If a boy plops himself down next to me uninvited, and it's a boy I didn't want sitting with me, he gets no tip and no drink. What he does get is shooed away or ignored.

The only bar in Sunee Plaza I see making a real effort to at least try is All of Me. Even bars that had been hosting events seem to have stopped. I had planned to go to All of Me's event this evening, but unfortunately the weather is not cooperating. Here's what's going on at All of Me this month:

As one of those locals I think you have it backwards. I, for one, used to be in Sunee Plaza regularly. Now I rarely go at all - maybe 2 or 3 times a month, if even that often. For a long time I've been trying to get the bar owners to do things to bring back the 'fun factor' in their bars. That's what they need to do. I'm not here to support businesses doing virtually nothing to attract me as a customer and I'm not here to be spending my money as part of saving their businesses for them. Why do you think many of the locals stopped going? The way I see it, those businesses need to attract us if they want high numbers of locals to start returning. If and when they start doing that, I'll be right back in Sunee regularly. I have a feeling many other locals see it as I do. Don't forget, the locals don't need the bars to find all the boys they want. If Sunee Plaza really does eventually go under, I won't like it any more than everyone else. I will be very disappointed if that happens and will feel that all of us have lost something special. But don't blame the locals. If the bar owners would finally wake up and listen, I see no reason why Sunee Plaza couldn't be thriving again, just like only a few years ago when you were lucky to even get a seat in many of the bars. In my opinion, it's the bar owners who need to make the effort, not the locals.

I would love to see Sunee Plaza make a comeback to a thriving gay bar area. I don't want to see Sunee Plaza end up only a memory, but now gay farang customers are way down compared to years ago and it's the middle of low season. Meanwhile most of the bar owners are doing nothing to try to attract more customers. Beats me as to why, but if they're not going to do anything except open, display a few of boys spending most of their time staring into their mobile phones, and do nothing other than just hoping customers will come, what do they expect? At a time like this I would have thought the bar owners would get together and plan events and activities that would draw in the customers, but they don't. In my opinion, the bar owners have no one to blame but themselves.

Willy Clark (pounding on his TV): "Come on, you piece of crap, work already! Lousy Japs - they lost the war, so they send us their junk." - Walter Matthau (Willy Clark), 'The Sunshine Boys'

I was talking about scams in general and I thought I made it clear that the vast majority of scam victims are the Thais themselves. Firecat69 has been saying that most farang do not end up as scam victims. In fact, in post 22 in this topic I wrote, "I agree with firecat69. The Thais themselves are the scam victims far more often than farang. Then again, there are a far more Thais in Thailand than there are farang.." Where do you see a difference of opinion between firecat69 and me or anything that needs to be reconciled?

If you already said it earlier, I missed it. How do you know?

I don't understand the argument as to whether this phone purchase was a scam. What difference does it make whether it's called a scam or something else? The point, as I see it, is it happened, makes an interesting story, and is in keeping with the topic. Personally, I don't care whether it's labeled 'scam' or not. As far as I can tell from these posts, bucknaway intentionally bought a copy phone he knew to be counterfeit. The place he purchased it from switched it for a lesser quality phone. When anyone knowingly buys a counterfeit phone, he's also gambling on the length of time it will work, if it works at all. It might work a day or two, maybe a month or two. I have yet to see a counterfeit phone that worked longer than three or four months. If you buy a counterfeit and it doesn't work, then: "Of course, Dear. What did you expect?" - Gladys Cooper (Mrs. Higgins), 'My Fair Lady'

I'd like to be a fly on the wall if you're inspected and find yourself having to explain to a customs officer what you're doing trying to bring in a counterfeit telephone. Why do I think customs might have a little problem accepting that explanation? While I realize this video has nothing to do with scams in Thailand, since you brought up telephone scams, I just had to share my all time favorite - just for fun: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mtKzp1qb6SE

It would be a little difficult for me to post about scams I'm not aware of . . . I can't answer your questions any better than you can, although I don't see the fast talking used car salesman as an example of a scam. If you're sold a car that wasn't theirs to sell in the first place, that would be a scam. If you want to see perfect examples of scams, all you need to do is watch "Judge Judy." I really don't want to get into the finer points of what does or does not constitute a scam. I see this topic as really meaning to be stories about incidents that unexpectedly removed cash from us rather than having to fit in with a precise definition of the word 'scam.' Many of us are going to disagree anyway about what is or is not a scam For example, at Christmas and New Year many Thailand hotels serve mandatory holiday buffet dinners that their guests will be charged for whether they want the dinner or not. Quite often the guest was never told in advance about the mandatory buffets. Even guests who become ill and can't even eat are going to be charged. Is that a scam? I can't say whether that fits the definition of a scam or not, but I'll bet some people reading this topic found out the hard way about those buffets. I'd like see those kinds of stories posted rather than worrying about whether they're actually within the definition of a scam. I agree with firecat69. The Thais themselves are the scam victims far more often than farang. Then again, there are a far more Thais in Thailand than there are farang.

Some people no longer take LOS to mean Land of Smiles. For many, now LOS means Land of Scams. There are so many scams in Thailand that it would take me at least a two or three days to post just the ones I'm aware of. One of my favorite scams is getting people to invest in a condo that has yet to be built. Then construction is never even started and the owner disappears with all the money.

You have your opinion and I have mine. You have your experience and I have mine. I'm glad the boards seem to have finally reached a point at which board members can discuss and even vehemently disagree with each other without insults, put-downs, and name calling. I hope those days are over.