Gaybutton

What did you have for dessert . . . ?

I do the same. For me it doesn't even have to be a lie. A "red light" is enough for me. I learned the hard way too. Maybe I'm going to the other extreme now, but I have become a believer in the Richard Burk (owner of the Amor Restaurant) Philosophy: "If you want love in Thailand, rent it." For the present, that's the way I feel. Maybe some day that will change. I don't reject anything, but I have definitely become very cautious, perhaps over cautious. In your case, yes. But you know as well as I do that you are one of the extremely rare exceptions and one of the luckiest men in Thailand. I wish your luck could apply to all, but it just doesn't seem to work that way for very many of us.

I don't know how others feel about it, but for me this thread is one of the most significant we have ever had on this board. When GT wrote, "I think of one very good friend who I told over and over to move on from his 'lover' as he was always lying. He did not heed my advice for years. We do that when we are ready to do it. Not really before," he could very well have been referring to me. Maybe I am the one about whom he was referring. I was being lied to, and every one of my friends could see it but me. In retrospect I think I saw it just as clearly as everyone else, but my problem was refusing to accept it. It took a long time, too long really, for me to finally realize that I had to break away or let that person ruin my life. It came down to those two choices. To this very day it is still a struggle for me, and I'm not sure I was ever truly ready to end it, but nevertheless I knew it had to be done. I learned the hard way to put my emotions aside and think with my head. But that's not always easy. To this day I still feel terribly guilty about breaking it off with him, and I know damned well I have nothing at all I should feel guilty about. Welcome to human emotions. That person is out of my life, but he'll never be out of my heart, no matter how hard I try, even with the knowledge that he had become tantamount to a cancer on my life. One of the easiest things in the world is to give someone else advice. One of the most difficult things is to take it.

I haven't been there in ages, but the A-Bomb bar in Pattaya had a reputation for muscle boys, although I don't think it was ever similar to the Tawan bar in Bangkok. Anyone been to A-Bomb recently?

You know what I would consider doing if I was into the Jomtien Complex scene and moving to Thailand? I'd rent it and live there. 12000 baht per month isn't bad at all and I'd be right right in the heart of Jomtien Complex, easy walking distance to baht buses, the beach, and the night life, along with boys galore just a few steps outside my door. It wouldn't take very much to convert it to a livable apartment. Sounds good to me . . .

You know what happens when you give a second chance? You end up giving a third chance. Then a fourth and a fifth chance.

You're far more generous than I. I wouldn't even give it that much. They took an excellent movie and absolutely ruined it with one of the worst remakes I've ever seen. The original was so good and so much fun to watch. The remake is just terrible. The plot is ridiculous and there are no memorable characters. Even Denzel Washington and John Travolta couldn't save it. The movie started off quite well, I thought, but quickly turned into a disappointment. On the other hand, the original starred Walter Matthau, Robert Shaw, Martin Balsam, Jerry Stiller, and Hector Elizondo, along with perfect characters in their various roles. That combination is awfully hard to beat. That's the one to watch, if you can find it. I'm lucky. I have the DVD. If you've never seen it, find it and watch it. Without spoiling it for anyone who has never seen it, I think the final few seconds of the movie includes one of the most memorable moments in movie history. But this remake gets a major 'thumbs down' and a 'forget it' from me, that's for sure!

It doesn't sound like a misunderstanding to me. Also, I would not assume this is the first time this boy has lied or, at best, misunderstood. Based on GT's story, this boy knew exactly what he was doing and if GT sticks with him, then to my mind that's like having a strong premonition, but still boarding the Titanic.

Loose. "One time I met Toulouse-Lautrec. I gave him a belt. I said I hope that belt's not too tight Toulouse." - Rip Taylor

Who is? The owner or the boy?

You misread it. It said "for a totally disappointing, miserable time . . ." VERY CHEAP! I haven't gotten many calls, so I had to fire my secretary. I attribute the lack of calls to the low season and poor exchange rates . . .

bullSHIT, you can't! You can buy mine, and it's for sale rather cheaply . . .

Folks, please do me a favor and include the http:// when posting a link. The link won't work without it and I keep having to go into posts and add the http:// so the link will work for you. This won't work: www.gaythailand.com This does work: http://www.gaythailand.com

Ok, ya got me! I should have clarified that the boy I'm talking about is a freelancer who works without salary at a beer bar, fully clothed. I don't know whether that makes a difference. I also don't know at what point he explains that he doesn't go off with people. However, he is not a go-go boy and he is not paid anything by the bar (although every one the bars get an off fee for any freelancers that leave the bar with a farang). On that basis I would say the choice is his, but I would be annoyed too if I had spent money on drinks at the bar, spent time with the boy, and gave him a tip only to find out at that point that he won't go off with me. On the other hand, if he is up front with customers, before they start spending money, then I would say he is being fair. Meanwhile, in all of the bars there is nothing that forces a boy to go off with a farang, even in the go-go bars. If the boy doesn't want to go off with a customer, that's his choice and nobody forces him. It's rare for a boy to make that choice, but I've seen it happen with particularly gross customers and farang known to be very cheap when it comes to tips. There are even occasions when a boy has no choice but to refuse an off. I don't see this happening very often anymore, but not too many years ago it was quite common for a farang to literally reserve a boy. He would let the bar know which boy he wants and what time he'll be there. That obligated the boy to wait for the farang to show up. If the farang failed to show up within about 20 minutes of the appointed time, now the boy was free to do what he wanted to do again. That practice is rather rare now because there were too many instances in which a farang had reserved a boy, but didn't show up. Meanwhile the boy had customers who wanted to take him off, but had to refuse because he had been reserved. Nowadays the boys want the bird-in-the-hand, so the reservation system is pretty much a thing of the past. That was back in the days when most bars had plenty of customers every night and boys were taken off quite regularly. But now, because of a lack of customers, most boys consider themselves very fortunate if someone takes them off two or three times a month. Only a few years ago many boys could count on two or three times a week, or even more if they were popular.

That's my question too. It's one thing if mama-san is their ya ba connection. That's a far cry from spiking their community water container without their consent or knowledge.

So does his . . . ?

There are several boys who have no interest in going off. Some freelance in bars and make their money by having a few drinks with customers and getting what tips they can for it. Don't ask me to explain this. I don't think I could explain it in a million years and I fully expect snide remarks and jokes to follow this post, but I know one boy who works in a Sunee Plaza bar. He is very attractive. He's delighted to have drinks with you for tips, but he won't go off with anyone. But he likes me! He calls me quite often, gets together with me, and refuses to take any money whatsoever from me other than I foot the bill for what we do when we're together. The one time he ever asked me for anything beyond that was about six weeks ago when he wanted some clothes. He wanted to shop at Big-C. He bought a couple shirts and some underwear. The total bill was less than 500 baht. That's the only money he ever wanted from me. I have absolutely no idea what the attraction about me could possibly be, but I'm glad it's there.

Don't be so sure . . . I tried it and got the same message.

I agree completely with lvdkeyes. So do you. You've told me that yourself on several occasions . . . once they start lying, it's not going to stop. I've found that out the hard way too. The most difficult things I have had to do in my life was letting my boyfriends go once the reality of the situation finally hit me. A "little white lie" is one thing, but this boy flat out lied and tried his damnedest to mislead you. I believe lvdkeyes is absolutely right, that not only will it continue, but it's virtually a sure thing that quite a bit has already been going on behind your back for a long time. Few emotions are as painful as having to give up someone you care about. Obviously you care about him very much, but as someone not emotionally involved and looking at it from outside, my opinion is giving him up is the only thing to do. You have spent a fortune on him and he still lies to you to get what he wants, even when he knows it's totally against your wishes. He chose that for himself. Now he has to pay the consequences of it. If you have the money to do it with, I would urge you to give him a reasonable 'severance,' send him on his way, and get on with your life. It will be terribly painful to do that, but I know you well enough to know what a terrific person you truly are. You will find someone else and it won't take long for the emotions you feel for this boy be transferred to the next one. So many of us have been through this, GT. You know me well enough to know I'm no more immune to it than you are, but there comes a time when you have to choose reality over emotions. It will take a while, but you will get over it. I hope you make the right decision.

You're not wrong and it isn't just that bar. Many bar boys are freelancing, without salary, in many bars. Just ask them.

I'm with Bob on this one. It's difficult for me to consider an argument of this kind, based on nothing but pure speculation, as a valid argument. There is simply no evidence that bars are drugging their employees. Even if they were, from what is being said the boys would all have to be drinking out of the same container. Many do drink from that "community water bucket." Many also don't. What about them? I'll repeat that I have drunk from those buckets too and I wasn't drugged. Now I understand that things in Thailand can be quite different for farang, but drugs? Also, why would the bars do it? The bar boys have no problem doing their thing and they don't need drugs to convince them. I also see no comparison to condoning drug use to prostitution. Legal or not, drug use is clearly harmful to anyone who is a user. When it comes to prostitution, what's the harmful part? The possibility of STDs is there, of course, but I don't see that as comparable to drug use. When you start talking about the morality of prostitution, whose morality? I think everyone reading this is fully aware that Thai concepts of morality surrounding this issue are quite different from Western concepts of morality. The argument that parents would not accept 'consenting adults' as grounds for approval when it come to prostitution and/or drug use. If I was a parent, I certainly wouldn't like it. Then again, I doubt my child would tell me. "When you stop telling your parents everything, a whole new world opens up." - Lee Marvin, 'Paint Your Wagon'

Thank you. I appreciate it.

Whatever it is, it's bizarre. I got that message when I tried to go to both the CNN web site and YouTube. But for me, a second try always works . . . so far.

Why didn't you say so? Ok, ok. I'll stop dying my hair blonde . . .

I've been seeing that too. It started a few days ago on this and some other web sites. I just click the link again or refresh the page and it works fine. I have no idea what that's about.