Gaybutton

I don't think it's a very good idea to take medical advice from a radio station doctor.

Message from Mike: _____ Although a bit short notice you may like to know that Mikes Bar La Cage will be running a minibus to the first ever performance of Brahms German Requiem at the Assumption Cathedral, Bangkok, on Thursday 3rd. September. Limited seats available so please contact mike as soon as possible. Full details attached.

Incredible! You, who had no way of controlling what the boys did during non-working hours, face a 90-day closure or face going to court and a large fine. But the boys who actually used the drugs have to spend a week sweeping the streets or collecting garbage or something. It doesn't seem fair to me. And you had to guarantee they wouldn't run away, something else you can't really control.

I agree. Mark has given us a lesson in Thai law. For whatever bizarre reasons, apparently under the law he has to at least show evidence that he is making a reasonable effort to prevent drug use from taking place at his establishment and apparently he has to do so at his own expense. I doubt the law would stand up under most western court systems because, the way I read what Mark is saying, there are no guidelines for him to follow. What he is doing may be enough. Also, maybe it isn't. What's more, what may be enough this week might not be enough next week. Apparently 'probable cause' doesn't enter the picture at all. The whole situation makes very little sense to me. He has no way to know if a Thai court would consider what he is doing to be enough, and it would cost him plenty if he ever again has to find out. It even seems as if you would have to be lucky enough to get the right judge. Apparently, the whole thing is without guidelines, which makes the outcome dependent on the whim of each individual judge. If nothing else, Mark's post seems to me to rule out the notion that bars would intentionally drug the boys. He's damned if he does and damned if he doesn't. If any of the boys show a positive drug test result, then bar owners like Mark are going to get a visit from the police and have to face the decision of complying with a 90-day closure order or go to court. It must be like trying to decide whether to jump into boiling water or jump into boiling oil. Mark, if you're reading this now we know what happens to you. What happens to the boys who fail drug tests administered by the police when they raid?

We're close to being agreed. This is the only area at which we still disagree. I think law enforcement officials should have to supply the test materials. But no matter who pays for it, I don't think the bars should be held responsible, financially or otherwise, any more than any other kind of business should be held responsible. To me, if the bars have to pay to start drug testing their employees, then every business in town should have to do the same thing. It would be hard to convince me that the only businesses in town that have drug users on their staff are bars. I don't see anyone trying to get other kinds of establishments to drug test their employees at their own expense. Why should bars be singled out as an exception? I'm all for drug testing. I all opposed to the bars having to foot the bill for it.

That aspect of it, at least, is not so much of a problem. Bangkok Bank permits you to designate someone else to handle the bank account if you become incapacitated. They require a letter from the doctor as evidence you are incapacitated.

I'm glad to know that. It is quite rare for a bar boy to reject an off. I believe the boy really was telling the truth. A farang would have to be awfully disgusting before many boys would reject their chance for a tip. Getting customers to take them off is why they're working in the bars in the first place.

I understand perfectly. I just don't agree with your argument. Yes, random testing is not cost prohibitive and that's what Mark does at Krazy Dragon. But considering the number of boys arrested throughout Sunee Plaza every time there's a raid, I don't think random testing at one bar has much chance of improving anything. Even so, I don't see why Mark should have to pay a single baht to test boys over whom he has no control during their non-working hours. He chooses to do some testing, and I certainly compliment him for that, but unless the other bars start doing the same thing or start testing them all, then I think he's fighting a losing battle and in the end it's an exercise in futility.

Out of sheer curiosity, why? That's what I'm doing and it has been no problem at all. As a matter of fact, I realized there is actually an advantage to it. Every so often we hear stories about someone being ripped off at phony ATMs or by other methods. If you are keeping some of your money in that deposit-only account, the very fact that you have to put in a personal appearance to retrieve it prevents ATM rip-off possibilities.

Your idea of what is and is not cost prohibitive is a little different from mine. If it costs Mark 1000 baht per month to test 10 boys, that means 100 baht per employee tested. He tests 10 at random. Considering the number of employees in the average bar, then if all of them were tested once or twice per month, now the cost of those tests are running into hundreds of dollars. That sure seems cost prohibitive to me. I don't visualize very many bar owners voluntarily coughing up anywhere near as much as that, and I don't think they should have to in the first place. Considering the number of boys who do abuse drugs, then I would agree that they should be tested, but I don't agree that the bars should be the ones to foot the bill for it. I believe the police should supply the drug test kits. Between lack of customers, normal business operating costs, paying off corrupt police, etc, if you start adding drug tests to the cost of running a bar, then soon there won't be very many bars.

Yes, but those are boys who don't go off with anybody at all. I'm talking about boys who do go off. I'm interested in knowing if anyone has ever been rejected by those boys.

Has that ever actually happened to you? I've never had that happen and I don't personally know anyone who was ever rejected, although I've had my share of boys who are all over you in the bar and then duds once you get them in the sack.

Blue. They're not quite as common as others. I've seen them only in shopping centers such as Carrefour and Central. I don't think I've ever seen them in other types of locales, such as connected to a 7-Eleven.

That's strange. A friend of mine used his ATM card at the very same place and he was charged the 150 baht fee. Maybe it depends on which bank is the issuing bank. Who knows? It beats me, that's for sure. I guess all anyone can do is try. Maybe some will be lucky and some won't. I wish I had some idea of how to figure out which cards are going to be charged and which won't.

Me too. I see nothing attractive about piercings at all. "I had nothing better to do today, so I thought I'd have some holes punched through me." Some of these guys pierce anything! I'm waiting for pierced assholes, with possibly pierced hemorrhoids as an added touch. That's probably next. I also don't find tattoos attractive. I have never understood why anyone would permanently, or even temporarily, deck their bodies with images they wouldn't be caught dead putting in a frame an hanging on a wall. I've come to be able to handle and tolerate a little bit of piercing and a little bit of tattoos, but I would be a whole lot happier if they had neither.

I'm glad you said that. Generosity is one thing, but completely spoiling someone is quite another. I'm glad to know that you haven't lost your mind . . . well at least not completely . . .

The last bank that had not been charging the 150 baht fee for foreign ATM withdrawals was UOB. Unfortunately, they too have started charging the fee. As far as I know, now every bank in Thailand is charging the 150 baht fee. It's really a shame they are doing this. I used to recommend forgetting about traveler's checks and just using your ATM card. But since all the banks are going to charge you a 150 baht fee, along with whatever your own bank charges when you do a foreign transaction, it looks like your best bet is going to be coming to Thailand with traveler's checks. That's bad news because now, unless you opt for paying the fees, you're going to have to go to banks or exchange kiosks, during their operating hours, and exchange traveler's checks. That's a pain because you'll have to physically go to the bank and very likely have to wait your turn. Meanwhile there are ATMs virtually everywhere you look. I don't understand why the banks have all done this, especially at a time when tourism is already way down. Don't the banks realize that while they'll take in more money when foreigners use ATMs, they'll also lose quite a bit because a great many travelers are going to take steps to avoid using ATMs at all? So, there we are. It's traveler's checks or the ATM fees. The only other alternative that I can think of is to open a Thai bank account if you don't already have one, deposit traveler's checks into the account, and use their ATM card. The problem is, if you don't already hold a Thai bank account, it's getting more and more difficult to open one on anything other than a non-immigrant visa. Oh well, for years I have been trying to convince people to open a Thai bank account while you still can, but many never have bothered. So, once again, if you expect to make multiple trips to Thailand, I urge you to open a Thai bank account during your next trip . . . if you still can.

5k a week!?!?! How on earth much do you normally give this boy?

What did you have for dessert . . . ?

I do the same. For me it doesn't even have to be a lie. A "red light" is enough for me. I learned the hard way too. Maybe I'm going to the other extreme now, but I have become a believer in the Richard Burk (owner of the Amor Restaurant) Philosophy: "If you want love in Thailand, rent it." For the present, that's the way I feel. Maybe some day that will change. I don't reject anything, but I have definitely become very cautious, perhaps over cautious. In your case, yes. But you know as well as I do that you are one of the extremely rare exceptions and one of the luckiest men in Thailand. I wish your luck could apply to all, but it just doesn't seem to work that way for very many of us.

I don't know how others feel about it, but for me this thread is one of the most significant we have ever had on this board. When GT wrote, "I think of one very good friend who I told over and over to move on from his 'lover' as he was always lying. He did not heed my advice for years. We do that when we are ready to do it. Not really before," he could very well have been referring to me. Maybe I am the one about whom he was referring. I was being lied to, and every one of my friends could see it but me. In retrospect I think I saw it just as clearly as everyone else, but my problem was refusing to accept it. It took a long time, too long really, for me to finally realize that I had to break away or let that person ruin my life. It came down to those two choices. To this very day it is still a struggle for me, and I'm not sure I was ever truly ready to end it, but nevertheless I knew it had to be done. I learned the hard way to put my emotions aside and think with my head. But that's not always easy. To this day I still feel terribly guilty about breaking it off with him, and I know damned well I have nothing at all I should feel guilty about. Welcome to human emotions. That person is out of my life, but he'll never be out of my heart, no matter how hard I try, even with the knowledge that he had become tantamount to a cancer on my life. One of the easiest things in the world is to give someone else advice. One of the most difficult things is to take it.

I haven't been there in ages, but the A-Bomb bar in Pattaya had a reputation for muscle boys, although I don't think it was ever similar to the Tawan bar in Bangkok. Anyone been to A-Bomb recently?

You know what I would consider doing if I was into the Jomtien Complex scene and moving to Thailand? I'd rent it and live there. 12000 baht per month isn't bad at all and I'd be right right in the heart of Jomtien Complex, easy walking distance to baht buses, the beach, and the night life, along with boys galore just a few steps outside my door. It wouldn't take very much to convert it to a livable apartment. Sounds good to me . . .

You know what happens when you give a second chance? You end up giving a third chance. Then a fourth and a fifth chance.

You're far more generous than I. I wouldn't even give it that much. They took an excellent movie and absolutely ruined it with one of the worst remakes I've ever seen. The original was so good and so much fun to watch. The remake is just terrible. The plot is ridiculous and there are no memorable characters. Even Denzel Washington and John Travolta couldn't save it. The movie started off quite well, I thought, but quickly turned into a disappointment. On the other hand, the original starred Walter Matthau, Robert Shaw, Martin Balsam, Jerry Stiller, and Hector Elizondo, along with perfect characters in their various roles. That combination is awfully hard to beat. That's the one to watch, if you can find it. I'm lucky. I have the DVD. If you've never seen it, find it and watch it. Without spoiling it for anyone who has never seen it, I think the final few seconds of the movie includes one of the most memorable moments in movie history. But this remake gets a major 'thumbs down' and a 'forget it' from me, that's for sure!