Gaybutton

That would make sense, but perhaps you forget that in Thailand making sense is not necessarily a factor. Thai law is not interpreted that way. No matter how you look at it, the boy must be at least 18 years older than the birth date shown on his ID card.

That is a typical Thai concept of age, but legally you must go by the date on their ID cards.

I agree that checking the validity of the ID can be difficult if a boy is really clever, but I doubt that the police or Thai courts are trying to go after people who have been duped. The only time I've ever heard of that sort of thing is the occasional scam involving a rogue police officer or a phony police officer. Speaking of phony police officers, watch out for that too. There seems to be more and more of that going around, although most news reports I read about them are reports of them preying on other Thais rather than farang. I disagree about having to be "blind,deaf and dumb." I make no such assumption. This board also gets its share of newbies who have no idea about any of these goings-on. While most people who frequent this board are well aware, it doesn't hurt to remind everyone. However, it is also true that despite the scofflaw bars hiring under-age boys, I know of only one incident in recent history in which a farang was arrested as a result of taking an under-age boy off from a bar and, as I recall it, there seemed to be more to the story than was published. No matter how many times we post these warnings and news reports, there are still people out there who do their thinking with their crotch instead of their head.

I was not aware of that, but even so I don't understand why the news report would have used a name other than the displayed name, to avoid confusion.

You mean you don't see Pattaya as a "family oriented" city? Well, don't tell the mayor. Wouldn't want to disappoint him . . .

The following appears in the PATTAYA DAILY NEWS: _____ MUCH VAUNTED AIDS VACCINE RESULTS THROWN INTO DOUBT Pattaya, October 20, 2009, [PDN] The results of the world

I agree with that. I also disagree with the cliche that says any publicity is good publicity. Tell that to Richard Nixon. I don't see a problem with having Hitler in wax inside the museum because according to the article he will in an area with other human monsters. What I can't understand is the argument that this billboard is somehow providing a lesson in history or that an objection to it is somehow denying or hiding what Hitler did. Nobody is trying to pretend that Hitler didn't exist or there is nothing to learn from what he did. I'm on the side of the argument that says placing him on this billboard with that sort of caption was a wrong thing thing to do. By the logic being espoused by some on this thread, it would make just as much sense to place an image of Harry Truman or Robert Oppenheimer in downtown Hiroshima, and then say nobody realized that people might be quite upset about it. I don't think the advertisers placed it there with the intent of causing controversy, thus providing them with good negative publicity. I don't think they had any idea that the ad would cause a brouhaha. I think it was a dumb idea and they should have used someone else for their ad. I fail to see that historical lessons or remembering what Hitler did has anything to do with this issue. Again, from among all the historical figures they could have chosen, they had to pick Hitler?

Maybe so. Let's hope it wasn't a robbery.

Be that as it may, you'll have a difficult time getting me to agree that placing an image of him on that kind of billboard is a prudent means of remembering what he did. Besides, unfortunately the memory of what he was responsible for hasn't exactly done much to end genocide, has it? Rwanda, Cambodia, Bosnia, etc. all occurred since Hitler. I'm sorry, but even if the fact they are advertising a wax museum is perfectly clear to anyone looking, I think they should have come up with someone else and they should have known that there was going to be negative reaction to it.

We can start with the fact that they neglected to say what is being advertised.

I don't think it's a question of what they are allowed to do. I think it's a question of what they choose to do, whether they are allowed to or not. I think using an image of Hitler giving the Nazi salute in a billboard ad was not only tasteless, but an extremely stupid thing to do. How well received do you think such an ad would be in the middle of New York City, especially since all the caption says is, "Hitler is not yet dead"? Fountainhall is right. The ad doesn't even mention that it's for this wax museum. Other than making some sort of statement saying, "I have a right to do that," I can't see the point of creating a billboard ad that any fool should have known was bound to upset people. What kind of ad is that? I would have thought the purpose of of these ads is to draw people in, not alienate and anger people. Of all people they could have used in their billboard ad, they pick Hitler? And on top of that have him giving the Nazi salute? Somehow I think those responsible didn't exactly think it through.

Does that depend upon whether a farang or a Thai actually opened the account? RichLB, did you or your boyfriend open your account? If your boyfriend is actually the person who opened the account, then I can understand why the bill would come in Thai. If you opened the account yourself, then based on what lvdkeyes is saying, I would go right back to the office, tell them that you have a farang friend who receives his bill in English, and you want them to arrange that your bills arrive in English from now on. Of course, that will probably require 176 visits to their office before they actually change anything, if you're lucky enough that anything will ever change at all . . .

The following appears in the PATTAYA DAILY NEWS: for a photo of the billboard, see: http://www.pattayadailynews.com/shownews.php?IDNEWS=0000010718 _____ HITLER BILLBOARD PROVOKES INTERNATIONAL CONDEMNATION Pattaya, October 19, 2009, [PDN] a billboard of Adolf Hitler giving the Nazi salute, erected on Sukhumvit Road to advertise the opening of a new Louis Tussaud‘s Waxworks in Royal Garden Plaza, has provoked international condemnation, especially from the Israeli and German ambassadors to Thailand. Louis Tussaud‘s Waxworks MD publically apologised on Sunday, October 18, for the billboard which shows the German dictator, with the caption ‘‘Hitler is Not Yet Dead‘‘ written in Thai. The billboard, which has been displayed for two weeks on Sukhumvit Road, is among a number of others depicting famous dead people used to advertise the imminent opening of a new branch of Louis Tussaud's Waxworks. The display of Nazi imagery is not illegal in Thailand, nor is it anywhere near as emotive as it is elsewhere; in Germany, for instance, a similar action would have incurred up to a three-year jail sentence. The museum MD, Somporn Naksuetrong, admitted that he had received somewhere in the region of 100 complaints, as well as a protest letter from the Israeli Embassy, which prompted him to cover up the offending image. Two significant individuals had apparently received negative feedback concerning the Hitler billboard, namely the ambassadors of Germany and Israel. Germany’s Ambassador Hanns Schumacher had apparently seen the offending billboard when he visited Pattaya to attend the opening of the Child Protection and Development Centre last weekend. According to the Bangkok Post, Mr. Schumacher told representatives of the Pattaya City Council and the local business community that "this kind of utterly tasteless advertisement would hurt the feelings of many people.” The German Embassy was also reportedly stated as having said "It could also create negative consequences to Pattaya as a popular tourist destination." The Israeli ambassador Itzhak Shoham was even more vociferous saying: "It is totally unacceptable to have such a monster like Adolf Hitler on public display. The Israeli embassy had received many complaints about the Hitler billboard.” According to the Bangkok Post, he further said "The image of Adolf Hitler and the writing underneath are not only offensive to the Holocaust survivors but also to anyone who deplores racist behaviour. They bring a chilling memory of a dictator who systematically murdered in horrific methods 11 million people, men, women and children, during World War II." Pattaya is a resort popular among Israeli tourists and to have seen such an image, Ambassador Itzhak said, would have horrified them. The embassy asked that the offensive billboard be removed immediately. Mr Naksuetrong , Tussaud’s MD apologised for the offensive billboard saying "We weren't showing his image to celebrate him," according to AFP, further saying "We think he is an important historical figure, but in a horrible way. We apologise for causing any offence which was not at all intended. We did not realise it would make people so angry.” "We think of Hitler as an important person, but not in a good way," he said. The Bangkok Post reported Mr Naksuetrong as having said "In the museum we don't show him with other world leaders, we show him in the scary section." The museum, however, is considering replacing Hitler’s wax image with someone less offensive. In addition, by way of an apology, the museum is making a peace offering by giving discounted entry to the museum. Editor’s comment (Pattaya Daily News Editor) It’s not enough for Tussaud’s MD to claim ignorance about the potential effect such an image would have, especially upon tourist sensibilities. It’s high time Thais, including public officials who must also share the blame, consulted international agencies to assess the potential impact of any controversial move, especially in such popular resorts as Pattaya.

Due to Thai libel laws, we really cannot start naming individual bars that may have such a reputation. It's fair game if we are discussing a report that has appeared in the media, but we cannot have conversations appearing here that say this bar or that bar employs under-age boys, even if we know it to be true. That's Thai law.

Now might not be a very good time to plan railroad travel in Thailand. The following appears in the BANGKOK POST: _____ 4,000 Stranded in Rail Chaos Passengers Furious as Union Calls More Strikes Published: 19/10/2009 More than 4,000 passengers have been stranded at Surat Thani station after drivers of eight South-bound trains walked off the job, aggravating woes from crippling union stoppages. The latest action came as Prime Minister Abhisit Vejjajiva insisted a major overhaul of the State Railway of Thailand (SRT) might be in order and the SRT board said it was planning an urgent meeting in coming days to discuss the problem. Eight long-haul trains from Bangkok to Yala, Trang and Nakhon Si Thammarat ground to a halt unannounced yesterday at Surat Thani station. Confused and angry passengers, including foreign tourists, demanded an explanation only to be told by the station public relations officer that the train drivers had left their posts. The announcement was greeted with boos and jeers. Vans and buses were arranged to take the passengers to their destinations. The station last night announced four Bangkok-bound trains which had been held up on Saturday would continue on their journey. The driver of the Bangkok-Kantang train also walked off the job yesterday at Lamae station in Chumphon, stranding more than 1,000 passengers. There were scenes of chaos as people pushed and shoved to use the toilets. Stranded passengers were not given any food or drink. Three passengers filed complaints with the district police in Surat Thani seeking damages of an unspecified amount from the SRT. Nattaya Winothapan, 68, who was travelling on the Bangkok-Nakhon Si Thammarat train, said the carriages were packed after it picked up passengers abandoned by an express train which stopped running at Lamae station. Her train was then held up at Surat Thani station. "It's the internal squabbling," Ms Nattaya said. "The SRT people should be more considerate with their protest." Angry Yami Culloh, 60, of Yala, said she was appalled by the disruption. "I've had it with the trains. I'll never take the train again," she said. The railway union insisted drivers would stay off the job until the locomotives were safe to drive again. It said the system which applies the brakes automatically in emergencies was faulty in many locomotives. Union leader Sawit Kaeowan yesterday said passenger safety was the top priority and members of the union would not go back to work until the faulty locomotives were fixed. He said the length of the repairs depended on how quickly the spare parts could be delivered. Drivers have handed in leave letters which they hope can save them from disciplinary action. SRT chief engineer Krit Salongchaithawat said 55 mechanics and train drivers at Pak Nam Pho station in Nakhon Sawan and 76 at Hat Yai station had taken leave yesterday. The union said too many train engines were poorly maintained and did not pass inspection but SRT engineers say these claims are false. Meanwhile, Mr Abhisit said the SRT needed an all-round shake-up. A major organisational reform would be put in place if necessary. He said he did not think the strike action was politically motivated. Land Transport Department director-general Chairat Sanguansue and a member of the SRT board, said the board would schedule an urgent meeting to resolve the problem in the next few days. "These workers should think hard about the organisation that feeds them," he said. Wuthichai Kalayanamitr, president of the Transport Company Ltd, said there were enough buses to shuttle passengers stranded by the strike. Transport Minister Sohpon Zarum said he had asked SRT management to meet him and explain the strike action. ____________________ And this, from THE NATION: _____ TRAIN ON STRIKE Suspended train services Published on October 19, 2009 Passengers Threaten to Sue SRT Passengers left stranded in Chumphon yesterday following an abrupt suspension of train services threatened to sue the State Railway of Thailand for compensation. Three of them filed complaints at Lae Mae Police Station after more than 2,000 of them, travelling on Train 167, were left at Lae Mae train station from 3am until 9am, before chartered buses took them further to their destination. But during the six-hour wait they had no assistance or service from local railway workers. The three said they needed police reports to pursue claims for damages from SRT for the delay. The union of the local SRT operation in Chumphon said later that the suspension of service was needed because a safety system called Vigilance installed on many locomotives did not work. Union leader Issara Kerdsodsri accused the SRT management of not caring about passengers, and not heeding requests made two years ago by local railway workers for the Vigilance system and additional equipment. At the Hat Yai railway junction in Songkhla, where the "work suspension" began, many passengers on Train 171 from Bangkok to Narathiwat had to carry their heavy luggage for a long distance to catch another train to continue their journey to the deep South. There was no porter service available to help them because support staff had also "suspended" their service. Prime Minister Abhisit Vejjajiva said the internal conflicts of the SRT should not be allowed to inconvenience commuters and interrupt railway service. On his weekly morning television address, Abhisit said he wondered why railway workers were permitted to take administrative leave at the same time. "The public is calling for reform of the SRT even under normal circumstances. So don't do anything that will be even more detrimental to your organisation. The government is looking into an overall plan regarding the SRT. A revised report will be submitted to the Cabinet in a few weeks. There is a need for a drastic overhaul [of the SRT]," he said. The SRT labour unions' call for a replacement for SRT governor Yutthana Tabjaroen needed to be taken into consideration, and if there was cause, other measures should be adopted instead of such strikes, he said. Quoting Transport Minister Sophon Saram, Abhisit said the SRT would now address the delays and disruptions of freight trains, while passenger trains were top priority to minimise the effects of the labour action. Sawit Kaewwan, head of the confederation of SRT labour unions, called on the ministry and the SRT to jointly solve problems regarding the safety systems of locomotives. Up to 90 per cent of all 196 locomotives were unfit for use due to inadequate maintenance and lack of spare parts and equipment, he said. "In some locomotives, whose windshield wipers are not in use, engineers have to improvise by making makeshift wipers operated by hand," he added. In Trang, two trains were suspended for the first time. Chartered buses were provided for passengers wishing to transfer. Those who bought tickets for trains that have been suspended could get full refunds. For more information, contact SRT's hotline at 1690 round the clock. The SRT in the afternoon announced an indefinite suspension of seven southbound passenger trains because of the ongoing absenteeism of staff. The suspended services were: Bangkok-Sungai Kolok rapid train No 171; Bangkok-Butterworth express train No 35; Bangkok-Sungai Kolok express train No 37; Bangkok-Yala rapid train No 169; Bangkok-Nakhon Si Thammarat rapid train No 173; Bangkok-Kantang rapid train No 167; and Bangkok-Yala express train No 41. Remaining in service were Bangkok-Trang express train No 83 leaving at 5.05pm; Bangkok-Nakhon Si Thammarat express train No 85 departing at 7.30pm; and Bangkok-Surat Thani express train No 39 leaving at 10.50pm. The SRT did not say when train services would be restored.

Whether any bar does or not, the issue for you, as a farang, is whether you take an under-age boy off. Don't. Check his ID card to make sure he is at least 18 years old, and make sure the ID card you're checking is actually his own and not one he borrowed.

The following appears in PATTAYA ONE: for photos, see: http://www.pattayaone.net/news/2009/october/news_17_10_52_2.shtml Note: The article refers to the bar as Y2K. If this was about 2 years ago, that would be correct. The bar changed names and became Look Bar. It recently changed names again and now is the Playboy Bar. _____ Underage Employees and Drug Users Found in Sunee Plaza Boy Bar Police Raid Pattaya, October 17 [PATTAYA ONE NEWS] : In the early hours of Saturday Morning, Police Lieutenant Colonel Sutum conducted a raid on the Y2K Go-Go Bar located in Soi Sunee Plaza following allegations the venue was employing underage boys. The raid took place and a total of 9 employees were found to be under the age of 18 and 12 employees failed drug tests. The manager of the venue, Khun Sutin aged 40, was also arrested and everyone was taken back to Pattaya Police Station for processing. A report of the raid has been sent to the Banglamung District Licensing Unit for their consideration.

Being that the bars do not disclose their financial information to me, I don't know. However, based on the fact that you don't exactly need to make reservations in any of them lately, if it were me I would find something else in which to invest.

I don't think any of those would stand a chance, but you never know for sure unless you try. But I would never invest in any of those unless I could easily afford to lose every baht. Hairy Thai guys with beards? Are there any?

This evening I did some checking of my own. Apparently two gay-hating farang started bad-mouthing the boys at one of the open air bars, calling them all kinds of nasty names until the boys had enough of it and chased after them. Some boys from other bars joined in the chase and caught the two farang near the entrance of the complex. They didn't really hurt the two farang, but did enough to humiliate them and probably caused some hind end bruising. Needless to say, the two farang have not been seen around Jomtien Complex since that night.

Silverdaddies is good and yes, there are young guys who are truly into old guys, fat guys, hairy guys, bearded guys, combinations of those, etc, and it's not always about money. If that young man was reading that magazine, I'll bet anything he would have responded favorably if you had approached him. He may have been a money boy, but he also may not have been. Considering the variety of magazines he could have been looking at, I think you missed the boat by not at least giving him a smile and seeing how he would respond. I learned a long time ago not to let shyness or fear of rejection get the better of me. What's the worst that could happen? If he tells you to get lost, your feelings will be hurt, yes, but he might be responsive too. I look at it the same way I look at fishing. Every so often you reel one in. Once I overcame my fear of rejection, I ended up meeting many who turned out to be great. As crazy as this may seem, I am successful much more often than not and I'll repeat that it isn't always about money. I've met some who refused to accept money when I offered it. The proof is saunas such as Babylon in Bangkok or Sansuk in Pattaya. There certainly is no money being exchanged in those places. If you see that same young man again, simply say hello and take it from there. You just might be pleasantly surprised.

Thailand is waiving those fees in an effort to get tourists to come back. The tourism industry is in serious trouble. There is even some talk about possibly extending the waiver beyond March 10.

If it still exists, I've seen a Pack and Ship place on Sukhumvit, on the west side (the beach side) between Pattaya Tai and Pattaya Klang. Also, you can buy boxes at UPS outlets. The nearest to you is on Second Road, right near the Boyztown area. You can also ask at grocery stores and large hardware stores, such as HomeWorks and Big-C. THey might give boxes to you.

There will be plenty! One time I was in Phuket at Christmas and the hotel had a Christmas beach party and actually had a Santa Claus parachute in! In Pattaya there will be all kinds of bar, disco, and karaoke parties. Many restaurants will put on Christmas dinners. Be careful about which hotel you stay in if you are going to be here for Christmas. If your hotel is going to have a Christmas party or Christmas buffet, they are very likely to make it mandatory for their guests. In other words, you will be charged for it whether you attend or not. That is a standard practice in Thailand, so you might want to check in advance about that with the hotel where you will stay.

If nobody is able to respond, ask Monty. I'll be he knows.