Gaybutton

I second that. Good for you, lvdkeyes! I'll bet those same 'gentlemen' realized they better think twice before ganging up on someone they think to be vulnerable to bullying.

I agree completely with your first post, but I don't understand why you are upset with gay_grampa's question. The question seemed perfectly legitimate to me. He was merely inquiring as to whether anything was discussed in advance. Many people don't realize that it's often a good idea to clarify everything at the outset and gay_grampa had no way of knowing whether you did or not. Meanwhile, I think you were absolutely right to go back and bring this to the owner's attention, especially since you apparently did discuss the arrangements beforehand. That kind of an attitude on a boy's part can ruin the entire evening. I also agree he was foolish to react that way. Unless he is overflowing with customers, he ought to have considered himself lucky to be getting 1500 baht. You called this a "petty event." I don't think it's so petty at all. You spent money in the bar, probably spent money buying the guy the obligatory drink, paid the off fee, paid for a short time room, and gave him 1500 baht. I'm guessing you spent around 2500 baht, maybe even more, by the time you were done and your evening ended up ruined by this boy's ingrate attitude. I don't see your complaint as petty. I think your complaint is completely proper. If that happened to me, I think I would have reacted just as you did.

An interesting point and you're probably right.

That term has been used on this board for years without any negative comment . . . until now, and I'm not the only one around here who uses that term. Some are saying this is not the GB you know. Well, yes it is. I guess it's a side of me some simply were not aware of. I'll explain a little further for those who are so taken aback about my attitude. I don't make fun of suicide in and of itself. I think it's a terrible thing for someone to be driven to do away with himself. But anyone who has been on these boards for an appreciable length of time knows that an unusually large number of farang intentionally jump to their deaths from local tall buildings. It's happened so many times that I coined the term "Flying Farang." Maybe I've become jaded due to so many incidents. For a while it seemed to be at least one a week. This one is yet another one in a long list and yes, it's true that I really don't care. I'm sorry if that bothers some of you or makes you think that the usually sympathetic, ready to try to help, me would feel that way, but I'll bet that you too have things about you that bother others. I truly have no sympathy whatsoever for the Flying Farang. None at all. I do feel sorry for the reasons that brought them to suicide, but I have no sympathy for their method. Don't expect me to be among those who shed any tears for this guy or anyone else who dives out the window.

I don't think so, my friend. I have no apology to make to anyone. If I apologized about my post, that would be pointless because the apology would be a lie. I don't share your opinion on this at all. If and when I make apologies, I make them because I feel that I owe them, and I do make public apologies on this board. But I never make apologies because someone else decides for me that I should. I have absolutely no sympathy for Flying Farang. Not one bit. I've also been writing Flying Farang posts for years. As a matter of fact, I'm the one who coined the term. No one has ever complained before, but now all of a sudden I'm mean spirited and heartless because of this post. If I'm sorry about anything, I'm only sorry that you and alaan feel that way. Besides, I have yet to ever meet anyone who is consistent about everything.

Maybe they show separate 'menus' to Thai customers. I don't go for massages more than once in a blue moon, but I've been to a couple at which the 'menu' includes "suggested" tips. One of those massages was right here in Pattaya - Nobody Massage on Pattaya Nua (North Road). However, these places were still 'up to you' regarding tips despite the suggested amounts. A suggested tip amount is one thing, but if I were to enter a massage and they've put a mandatory tip in writing, right on the menu, I'd turn around and walk out the door.

Yes, that would be a quite safe assumption.

Just so that everyone knows, it is not necessary to post a message telling someone that a PM was sent to him. The recipient of a PM receives an Email automatically generated by the board and also will see the PM pop up next time he logs on to the board.

Of course there has been inflation, but most of the inflation has not affected the things that these boys usually spend their money on. The food they eat still costs essentially the same as it cost way back when. Their room rent costs just about the same. Their clothes cost about the same. The top-ups for their telephones cost the same. Their transportation costs the same.

The latest article about this appears in today's PATTAYA MAIL: http://www.pattayamail.com/current/news.shtml#hd14

That's pretty much it. None of these boys are working with a stopwatch. Short time essentially means you take the boy to your room, do whatever it is you are going to do, and that's the end of it. The boy is given his "tip," transportation money if your room is not within easy walking distance for him, and see you later.

Damn! Why didn't you post that before I said I wouldn't let anyone put others down for expressing their opinions . . . . . ?

Yes, isn't that terrible? Sorry if I shocked you, but you're entitled to your opinion. Here's mine: We've used that term, flying farang, for years whenever someone decides to take a swan dive from a tall building. Compassion for the guy from me? Good luck with that one. If I'm going to have compassion for someone, it would be the poor guy a 'flying farang' lands on.

Everyone is entitled to his opinion and that certainly includes you. Both your opinion and mine ought to be clear by now. My opinion applies to you just as strongly as anyone's. In your post you wrote that you will no longer comment on this subject. But please do, if you wish. I guarantee I will be just as protective of you if anyone tries to put you down merely because your opinion differs from their own. We're debating the issue itself, not the personalities of those expressing their opinions.

To find out how much to tip bar boys, what exactly would you enter into the search bar? Anything I've tried entering yields over 100 results, many of which don't answer the question or even address it. The search is great if you are looking for something very specific. For general things, it works, but is a pain. How do you know the person who posted the question didn't first try a search, but still couldn't find the information he wanted? If it was me, I would post my question and if somebody doesn't like the idea that I posted my question or tells me my question bores him, that would be his problem, not mine. How long does it take to read somebody's question? How are you going to feel if you post a question and the next thing you know you've got people telling you your question bores them or they start putting you down? Again, I'm sorry, but one thing I will never do is start telling people that they have to do a search before asking their question or start telling people that they're not to post a question that might bore a few people. Part of the point of this board even existing is precisely to be a place where people can post their questions and get good, reliable answers. I don't want anyone made to feel uncomfortable about posting legitimate questions on this board. If I'm going to make anyone feel uncomfortable, it's going to be the people who put down others simply because they dislike the fact that the question has previously been addressed. Don't forget, all of us were newbies once.

We haven't had a good 'Flying Farang' story in ages. Oh well, we've got one now: For photos see: http://www.pattayadailynews.com/shownews.php?IDNEWS=0000010823 -and- http://www.pattayaone.net/news/2009/october/news_29_10_52.shtml The following appears in the PATTAY DAILY NEWS: _____ STRESSED-OUT GERMAN LEAPS TO HIS DEATH IN JOMTIEN Pattaya, October 29, 2009, [PDN] A stressed-out German leapt to his death from a Jomtien hotel early this morning, October 29. The man was apparently deeply concerned over an impending leg amputation, according to hotel staff who tried desperately to prevent him from committing suicide, but to no avail. At 07.30 am, 29 October, Pol.Lt.Col. Dongtan-Pattaya Police Investigator, was informed by Mr. Weera Dumnernpanitch, a security guard manager of a luxury Jomtien Hotel and Spa, Jomtien Beach Road, that a foreign male had apparently gone berserk and flung himself off the balcony of his room, meeting his death on the 5th Floor, despite desperate attempts by staff to talk him out of jumping. Police and paramedics were immediately dispatched to investigate the incident. The body of Jurgen Rudihans, 68, a German national, was found by the rescue team lying in a pool blood, with his smashed watch lying by his side, by the side of the swimming pool on the 5th Floor. His arms and legs were broken. He was wearing a white T-shirt and black shorts. According to Mr. Weera, responding to police questioning, he had been alerted by staff at 6.30 am that Mr. Jurgen’s friend from Room 1715 had called Reception, saying that Mr. Jurgen, from Room 1714, was sitting on his sea-view balcony, evidently distraught, looking as if he was about to leap off. Mr. Weera said he and the staff rushed to Mr. Jurgen’s room, but his door was locked. They then gained entrance through the adjacent Room. 1715 to find Mr. Jurgen crying and saying he wanted to kill himself. The hotel staff then immediately reported the alarming situation to the police. Mr. Weera said he, the staff and Mr Jurgen’s friend were trying their best to calm Mr. Jurgen down, but he told everyone that he had a serious health problem that would necessitate having his leg amputated at the Rama Hospital in Bangkok next month and he would not have any family members, or friends to take care of him. This all occurred over a period of 10 minutes, but at the end of this, he suddenly leapt to his death, impacting on the swimming pool on the hotel’s 5th Floor at approximately 6.40am. The police filed the case and Mr. Jurgen’s body was sent for autopsy and the German Embassy was informed. ____________________ And this, from PATTAYA ONE: _____ German Jumps to his Death from Hi-rise Apartment Block in Jomtien Pattaya, October 29 [PATTAYA ONE NEWS] Early on Thursday Morning, Police and Rescue Workers were called to the Nusa Playa Hotel located on Jomtien Beach following reports of a foreign man who was threatening to jump off a 17th Floor Balcony. Officers arrived but were too late to prevent the man from jumping to his death. Police began their investigation by speaking to Security Staff at the Hotel and a neighbor of the victim who resides in the room. He explained that early on Thursday he was awoken by a commotion inside the room occupied by Mr. Jurgen Rudi Hans Oberhoff aged 68 from Berlin, Germany. Mr. Oberhoff was standing on his balcony and appeared to be preparing to jump. Security and Hotel Staff led by Khun Wira, Deputy Manager of the Complex were called and attempted to reason with him but he kept repeating that he would have to have his leg amputated in the next few days at a Hospital in Bangkok because of a vascular disease known as ASVD and was not prepared to live life as an amputee. Eventually Mr. Oberhoff jumped and landed on the 5th floor next to the Swimming Pool. The German Embassy has been informed as was his Thai Wife; Khun Prakom aged 48 who was not inside the room at the time of the suicide.

If a boy anywhere in Thailand, including Chiang Mai or Bangkok, ever tried to get prices like that out of me, then he first would have to wait several minutes for me to stop laughing. 1000 baht, tops, for short time. 1500 tops, for over night. If a boy ever tries to get me to go beyond that, then he'll quickly find out just how slow business really is.

Including this site. Sorry, but I agree with kcampb49 on this issue. The topic makes it perfectly clear what this thread is about. If some people are bored reading about the same kind of question appearing ad nauseum, the simply don't read the thread or just tolerate the 10 seconds you lose reading a "how much to tip" question. I see no reason why people should be afraid to ask a question on this site, even if the same question has been asked dozens of times. On some boards, the most prolific responses to legitimate questions consist primarily of put-downs and snide remarks. That's not going to happen on this board. "How much to tip" questions are legitimate and I am not going to see our board users become intimidated about asking their questions simply because some board veterans are annoyed or think our board users are under an obligation to spend hours wading through lord-knows-how-many posts to find the answers they seek. Sorry, but my stance is if anyone has a legitimate question, then they should feel perfectly free to ask it and expect knowledgeable people to provide the answers, without having to endure the displeasure of those who find these sorts of posts boring.

I am becoming more and more convinced that resolving immigration woes depends much more upon which officer you're dealing with rather than the actual rules. If there is a problem, I think your chances of resolving them depends on the officer. You'll either be lucky or you won't. This morning I went in to submit my 90-day address report. I was not due to submit it until nearly a month from now, but at the time of the deadline date, according to my GPS, I expect to be hundreds of kilometers from the nearest immigration office. I went in to submit my report today in hopes of not having to interrupt my trip to go way out of my way just to submit an address report. About a year or so ago I went in two weeks early to submit my report and the officer refused to accept it, telling me that I cannot submit my report any sooner than seven days in advance. I expected to hear the same thing this morning and was ready with a great sob story in an attempt to convince the officer to let me submit the report. The officer was not the same officer as the one who had previously rejected me. This officer didn't bat an eye. He hardly gave the deadline date a second glance. He accepted my report, nearly four weeks in advance, without a word and with no problem whatsoever. The only time he spoke at all was when he was pointing out the next due date. Maybe the regulations have changed, but I was in and out within two minutes. Now my next report is due close to the end of January and I can go out into the hinterlands without having that to worry about. My only disappointment was not having the chance to tell the sob story . . .

So will the boys, especially the ones who actually manage to convince their farang that they love only him and remain loyal only to him when he's not in Thailand. Among farang, I think these are the most 'famous last words:' "Not this boy. He's different."

The following appears in THE NATION: _____ New Sex Change Regulations Set to Take Effect October 28, 2009 Areeya Milintanapa, a 26yearold transvestite, had hoped to undergo sexual reassignment surgery at a private clinic in Bangkok next year, but her plans have hit a setback - new regulations by the Medical Council of Thailand. The council moved recently to strictly control sex change operations and require that transgender people consult a psychiatrist, live as a woman for a year and receive hormone therapy before being such an operation is allowed. For Areeya the new rules are an inconvenience. "I have already spent my whole life as a woman - since I was a little boy - and why [do] I have to live as a woman for another year to undergo sex change surgery?" she said. Areeya said she had wanted to be a woman since she was a young boy. She said she had played with dolls like girls did and wore her mother's skirts. "I know myself that I have always been woman not a man." Areeya, who married an American man three years ago, said she started doing research and finding out information on sex change surgery over many years, by consulting transgender people who had undergone sex reassignment operations, before making a decision to undergo the operation herself next year. "This [operation] was going to be a special gift for me to celebrate the New Year," she said. But her plan has been set back a year as the new regulations mean she cannot undergo a sex change without seeing a psychiatrist first. "The council want to make sure that they [transgender people] really want to be a woman and spend the rest of their lives as a woman, forever, not for a second," council president Dr. Somsak Lohlekha said. "Sex reassignment surgery would affect the physical body [of the person undergoing the operation], as well as people's mental health and society around them." The council's new rules will be enforced from November - next week. They will require transgender people to consult psychiatrist to assess people's mental state before they are allowed to get hormone therapy from endocrinologists. After that they have to live as a woman for a year before they can under?go a sex change. Somsak said at least two psychiatrists must give guarantees for transgender people who want to undergo a sex change. Foreigners seeking to have such operations here must get approval from a psychiatrist in their country of origin as well as a psychiatrist in Thailand before undergoing surgery. After the operation, surgeons and physicians must fol?low up on their patient's condition and provide appropriate medical treatment. The new regulations require that surgeons or physicians undertaking the sex change be registered with the Medical Council. They must also treat any complications that occur following surgery. Surgeons who violate the new regulations face warnings or the threat of having their medical license revoked. Dr. Panom Ketman, of the Royal College of Psychiatrists of Thailand, said one year of living as woman should be enough to evaluate if a transgender person is ready for sex change surgery. "During this period, they have more time to ask themselves whether they really want to be a woman or not. If they are absolutely sure, psychiatrists will allow them to undergo such surgery," he said. Dr. Paiboon Jittrapai, of Thailand's Royal College of Surgeons, said the new rules would lift standards for sex change operations. They would also help screen transgender people who really need sex change surgery. He said some patients had committed suicide after a sex change operation as they had later rejected changing sex. "Some transgender people underwent reassignment sur?gery because they wanted to do it for their job, such as per?forming in a cabaret show, not because they want it for their lives." Transgender Women of Thailand chairperson Yollada Suanyot expressed satisfaction with the new regulations but said relevant agencies, such as the Interior, Foreign and Justice ministries, should revise laws to allow transgender people to change their gender title from Mr to Miss. "Basic women's rights are also fundamental needs for transgender people," she said. "We also want the respect in human dignity, the same as anyone else." Areeya said things would be easier if she could change from being a 'Mr.' to a 'Miss', as she could then register a married certificate like other women. "I just want my life to be complete as a woman. Why do I have to go to another country to be allowed to register a marriage certificate with a man who I love? Why can't this country where I was born give it to me?" said a business transgender woman.

Several people who have stayed at Club OneSeven have told me that's the place to stay when in Phuket. Personally, that would be my first choice if I were going to Phuket.

Part of the problem was Sukhumvit Highway. Heading south, the turn to Central Road (Pattaya Klang) was blocked off by the police, so most people trying to get into town were all using the turn at Pattaya Tai. There are two turning lanes there, but you know how the Thais drive. They created their own third and fourth turning lanes, which resulted in two of the through-traffic lanes being completely blocked off. That had traffic backed up all from Pattaya Tai to North road (Pattaya Nua). Of course, no police were anywhere to be seen, so no one was out there doing anything about the chaos. What normally is a ten minute drive for me took more than thirty minutes.

The following appears in the BANGKOK POST: _____ WOULD YOU LIKE TO DRIVE THIS? Why Our Trains are Falling Apart Senior Rail Maintenance Technicians Say the Rampant Use of 'Copy' Parts will Lead to More Disasters Published: 25/10/2009 Patching up emergency brakes with cheap copy parts, running infeasible repair schedules and borrowing parts from one train to keep another in service are all part of daily life for train maintenance workers on Thailand's troubled rail system. While a State Railway of Thailand (SRT) fact-finding panel was quick to find human error was the cause of the Oct 5 derailment at Khao Tao, Hua Hin, which left seven dead and 88 injured, it is the country's ageing train network that is drawing just as many questions and fuelling the powerful railway workers' union stoppage campaign. Senior maintenance technicians with more than 20 years' experience claim the system is plagued by a shortage of proper spare parts. They said experienced technicians were trying to meet unrealistic demands to keep decrepit trains in service. The SRT has 209 locomotives to pull passenger and cargo cars with three major suppliers; General Electric, Alsthom and Hitachi. The locomotives have a brake system linked to a driver alert system, or vigilance system, which employs what drivers call a dead man's brake. The system is designed to keep drivers alert _ they must push a button every two minutes otherwise the emergency brake will stop the train as a safety measure. If the driver suffers a heart attack or passes out, as happened in the Khao Tao tragedy where the emergency brake did not engage, it can be a lifesaver for passengers. Technicians said replacement parts for the brake system should be genuine, but they claim some parts used for repairs are cheaper locally-manufactured ones they described as ''copy parts''. One of the technicians learned while participating in a 2004 SRT probe into problems with replacement distributor valves that they were using copy parts. He said the part was a crucial component of the brake system as it helped distribute air which is used to activate the brake after being compressed. However, SRT engineers told the inquiry panel copy parts were often used as replacements for the originals, and no one was punished accountable. ''What we learned later was that they often failed to function,'' the technician said. ''Their quality couldn't compare to the original ones.'' The technician said the use of copy parts across the entire maintenance system was common. The technician said original parts were more expensive. Another technician agreed that only genuine parts should be used to do maintenance and repair work on the dead man's brakes. But as they do not have access to genuine parts, they are forced to strip parts from one train to ensure another is kept on the tracks. Many of the copy parts are rubber rings which are less durable than the genuine parts, he said. A document from the SRT's procurement unit dated Dec 2004, shows that 240 rings for the dead man's brake systems were ordered from a local firm at a cost of 57,000 baht. One of the technicians also said their work had been compromised by SRT management pressuring them to get trains back in service as quickly as possible as there was a shortage of locomotives to meet the demands of the system. Each day, about 150 locomotives are needed to run the service. But according to the most recent records, records show in 2007 there were 74 locomotives under repair with 138 ready for service. This equated to about 65% of service availability. The technician said the more pressure that is placed on them to keep trains in service, the more maintenance work is hampered as they cannot properly complete repairs. ''We normally have a list of at least 12 items regarding safety to be checked before allowing the train to be in service, but I have to say that sometimes we can approve none of these, including the vigilance system,'' the source said. ''We don't have enough trains to service. So we have tried to keep the trains [we have] in service and safety issues have become a secondary priority as a result.'' He said the Khao Tao train tragedy highlighted the maintenance problems. He would not say whether the derailed train had gone through the 12 safety checks, but said the system clearly had a problem. The driver of the train involved in the disaster, Roengsak Panthep, testified to the fact-finding panel, which signed off on its report four days after the accident, that the dead man's brake system was not working. This was also confirmed by his technician Bowornrat Suatim. It was found the train sped up beyond its 90 kilometres per hour limit and derailed. The panel, however, did not comment on this in its conclusion, leading to accusations by the union of unfair treatment of workers. According to the check on his work schedule, Mr Roengsak had only one day off in the month of September. The SRT has 3,600 staff working on trains, 780 short of the ideal manning levels, the union said. There are 1,143 technicians also short of adequate staff levels. ''We wonder whether it is fair to blame everything on us,'' the source said. ''We have seen the flaws in the work, but this is just beyond our capacity to fix them. ''It's about the organisation's policy making and management that needs serious consideration now.'' SRT management could not be contacted for comment. ____________________ And this, from THE NATION: _____ TRAIN SUSPENSION Court Orders Workers Not to Obstruct Train Services Published on October 25, 2009 The Songkhla Provincial Court has issued a temporary injunction prohibiting the SRT Labour Union from obstructing train services. After hearing a lawsuit filed by State Railway of Thailand, court officials yesterday posted at the Hat Yai train garage a notice of temporary injunction issued by the Songkhla Provincial Court. The notice prohibits seven defendants - the SRT Labour Union and six leading members - from obstructing the train services. SRT Governor Yuthana Thapcharoen yesterday said train services would continue from Songkhla's Hat Yai train station to the three southernmost provinces from today. Eight more southern trains - four rapid and express trains from Bangkok - were resumed yesterday in addition to the previously resumed six routes on Friday. However, passengers to the three southern border provinces could not reach their destinations as all local trains to these and other southern provinces were stopped for repairs. The SRT governor yesterday said that long-haul train passing through Hat Yai would continue to Narathiwat's Sungai Kolok district while local routes would also run from Hat Yai to Sungai Kolok today. He explained that the locomotives retrieved from the union had to be checked first while security agencies were preparing for resumption of services. He added that night-time train services would remain suspended as a safety measure due to unrest in the region. Yuthana also admitted that, in order to prevent the labour union at Hat Yai from seizing any more locomotives, the SRT administration had ordered train services to be stopped at Surat Thani on October 16. This reportedly led to a train leaving passengers at Chumphon's Lamae district. He said the passengers reached their destinations via other transport means. Wirun Sakaekhum, president of the SRT Labour Union's Hat Yai branch, said yesterday that he would join SRT mechanics and engineers to inspect the repairing process of 15 locomotives in the Hat Yai garage, because if more locomotives were fixed, they might be able to resume services on more local routes. Thanongsak Pongprasert, director of the SRT's southern office, said that all railway officials were ready to resume train services to the three southernmost provinces as soon as armoured locomotives were delivered, checked and deemed ready for services. Previously there were 13 armoured locomotives for use in the southernmost provinces, but there were only five such locomotives currently at Hat Yai train station and most were in need of repairs, Thanongsak said. The union had asked for delivery of the parts to fix these five armoured locomotives while they waited for the delivery of the other eight armoured locomotives. He said that as SRT mechanics also brought some parts, including the vigilance systems for the armoured locomotives, some of the train services to the southernmost provinces should be resumed in a couple of days. Meanwhile, a poll by Hat Yai University on 1,098 local residents on October 22-23 found that 54.8 per cent of the people disagreed with the union's train service suspension while 38.1 per cent thought otherwise. About 39 per cent believed the move was for public safety, 29.1 per cent said it was the union's unhappiness with the SRT governor's work and 28.9 per cent said the union wanted pay hike and welfare. About one-third urged both sides to negotiate for a solution while 29.6 per cent wanted train officials to be disciplined and 19.9 per cent called for reform of the SRT. About 66 per cent said the SRT governor should take responsibility for the Hua Hin train derailment, while 36.6 per cent wanted the agency reformed for better safety.