Gaybutton

The bottom line is that it is quite possible to live in Pattaya with a relatively small income and still be able to live nicely. If you prefer Thai food and the countryside, you can live even more inexpensively. You don't have to have big bucks to be able to live decently and enjoy living in Thailand.

"I came for the waters." - Humphrey Bogart, 'Casablanca'

Your comments are very interesting to me. So many of the comments on this thread are all about the farang who are embarrassed. Your post brings up the idea that some of the Thai boys might feel the same embarrassment, even some of the bar boys. I can understand why boys in Pattaya might feel less inhibited than boys in Bangkok might feel. Pattaya is a "different animal." The entire gay area, from Boyztown to Sunee Plaza is primarily gay. While many heterosexual guys and couples are around, I think the gays within that area greatly outnumber them and unless they are blind I think most of the heterosexuals are well aware they are within a primarily gay area. While there are some girlie bars in the Boyztown area, most are on Walking Street and the north area of Pattaya, quite separated from the gay area. There is far less likelihood of encountering intolerant people in the gay area of Pattaya then in Bangkok. For whatever reasons, Pattaya seems to me to be much more gay-friendly than anywhere else in Thailand, which might be the reason your friend had no problem walking hand-in-hand in Pattaya, but it was a different story in Bangkok. Also, Pattaya is a holiday city. The city attracts more farang holiday makers than anything else, while Bangkok is a tremendous city that simply happens to have a few gay areas, but holiday making is not the basic major focus of Bangkok. That too might be a factor that accounts for the difference.

There is one aspect of casual sex that I would consider harmful . . . not getting any.

Windows 7 Complaints Begin Users of the new operating system say the upgrading process is buggy. But once the kinks are worked out, customers are liking Windows 7 a lot more than Vista. By David Goldman, CNNMoney.com staff writer NEW YORK (CNNMoney.com) -- Microsoft launched Windows 7 in late October to much fanfare. But, just like with previous Windows upgrades, complaints about bugs have already started rolling in. A whopping 31% of clients have reported problems with upgrading to Windows 7, according to a recent survey of more than 100,000 customers conducted by consumer helpdesk firm iYogi. "Most of the problems that customers have with Windows 7 have to do with installation, or application and data migration," said Vishal Dhar, co-founder of iYogi. "These are all fixable problems, but they're annoyances and they're time consuming." One common gripe, experienced by 9% of installers, is that the half-hour to an hour-long upgrade process gets to the "62% completed" point and then freezes. It's a problem that Microsoft is aware of, and can be fixed by rebooting the computer, going into advanced settings, and typing in a code that instructs the computer to ignore plug-ins. However, issues didn't stop with the upgrade process. Many users still experienced glitches even after successfully installing Windows 7 on their machines. Most common among those complaints was that basic "applet" programs, like Mail, Movie Maker and Photo Gallery, were missing. That's because Windows 7 deletes those programs and makes users download them from the Windows Live Essential Web site. IYogi said 26% of their customers were confused about that extra step. Others had problems getting their computers to work properly: Eight percent said their DVD drives couldn't be found and 2% couldn't sync their iPhones with Windows 7. One in seven users also complained that the sleek new "Aero" theme doesn't work. The Aero theme enables users to see through a window to view the desktop or other programs that are open behind it. According to iYogi, most of the 14% of users that have problems with Aero don't have the graphics capabilities on their PCs to handle the program. Other common complaints included an inability to view file extensions, too many "mini-dumps" (memory images saved on the computer when it crashes), problems with the "Aero snap" feature, changes to custom icons and problems with the new taskbar. Microsoft, which debuted Windows 7 on Oct. 22, did not return requests for comment. Once the bugs from upgrading have been worked out, users have had a relatively hassle-free experience. And those who bought a new computer with Windows 7 preloaded have seen the fewest issues. "Customers who finally get it up and running love Windows 7," said Dhar. "We haven't had a lot of people calling for usability issues, because it's a much more intuitive interface than Windows XP." That's not to say that Windows 7 is perfect. According to Zeus Kerravala, an analyst at Yankee Group, one of the biggest annoyances with the new operating system is that the "ribbon menus" at the top of programs have been redesigned and must be relearned. In previous Windows versions, the menus remained very consistent (File, Edit, View, Insert, etc.), but in Windows 7, they can be wildly different from application to application. "It took me a long while to figure out how to print," said Kerravala. "Microsoft tried to improve the user interface, but there's a learning curve because it's inconsistent." Microsoft also did away with many favorite applications like Windows Movie Maker, which is particularly surprising given the propensity of cell phone videos and Flip video camera movies. But all of the gripes about Windows 7 pale in comparison to the angry complaints about Microsoft's previous Windows iteration, Windows Vista. That version was an outright disaster after it was released in 2007. Vista was plagued by bugs, software incompatibilities, sluggishness and annoying security alerts. The episode nearly destroyed the tech giant's reputation with consumers. "While there are a few bugs, I haven't seen or heard of any show-stoppers," said Laura DiDio, principal analyst at ITIC. "In fact, just the opposite. Some Vista users can't wait to upgrade. So far, this has been a home run for Microsoft."

I agree with what has been said above, but the part that's on my "I Don't Get It" list is why any of these businesses object to people parking there in the first place. How is that hurting their business? If it's a public street, they are violating the law when they put up those barriers. And I would not patronize a business that prevents me from being able to park there. What am I supposed to do, park several blocks away and walk back? Not me. Some people say just tell them you want to shop in their store or go into their bar, or whatever it is, and they'll remove the barriers. Fine? Now, unless they have someone stationed outside, how does one go about getting them to remove the barriers? My favorites are the Indian tailors that place barriers in the street in front of their shops. Nobody is shopping there anyway.

Rules? In Pattaya? Surely you jest. I don't blame your friend for refusing to tolerate an arrogant attitude, but he was risking coming out of wherever he was going and finding his bike vandalized. He was lucky. For whatever reasons, many businesses don't want people parking unless they are going to patronize their own business. Unless parking somehow blocks access, I've never understood what the problem is, but that's the way it is. As far as rules go, it is probably best to park where you see other motorbikes parked. If there is a curb, then parking is fair game provided the curb has no striped markings, especially the red and white stripes. The police will leave a ticket and lock up the motorbike and then you have to go to the police station to pay the fine. A major pain-in-the-ass. I am so accustomed to the parking objections that I don't pay attention anymore. To me, arrogant or not, if someone comes out to object to my parking I just move on and find somewhere else to park. To me it's not a battle worth fighting because then I have to spend my time worrying about coming back later and finding my car vandalized, my tires slashed, or even the possibility of being attacked. Those kinds of things do happen, so I don't make an issue of it. I just park somewhere else and then I don't have to worry.

Speaking of ignorant dolts, how about this? And this is just today! Here are links to two versions of the story, both versions with photos: http://www.pattayaone.net/news/2009/december/news_11_12_52.shtml http://www.pattayadailynews.com/shownews.php?IDNEWS=0000011398

Sorry to have replaced the name with asterisks, but posting anyone's real name without their permission is verboten around here.

The following appears in PATTAYA ONE: _____ Suggestions of Major Bar Crackdown by Police Following Meeting with Provincial Police Chief Pattaya, December 10 [PATTAYA ONE NEWS] : On Wednesday Afternoon at the Cesar Palace Hotel in Central Pattaya, Police Major General Tanaert, the Commander of Chonburi Provincial Police, chaired a meeting of over 200 bar owners from around the Pattaya area. The General went through all the laws regarding operating such venues, including opening and closing times, minimum age of employees and patrons and registration papers to be completed for employees by the bar owner. One interesting point coming from the meeting was a statement by the General who warned any bars found to be paying off Police Officers in exchange for any form of protection would be prosecuted and the officers themselves would be removed from the Police. A special task force has now been set up to ensure that rules are adhered to and bar owners now fear a bar crackdown is imminent, which could not come at a worse time with High Season upon us which is a time of year when many bars do their best trade and rely on the relaxed bar trading regulations to ensure they can make the most of this busy period.

I agree. These holiday makers, regardless of where they come from, are not ignorant dolts without sophistication enough to realize that different countries have different attitudes toward nudity. I fail to see much of an excuse for them not to check. We would know to check. Why don't they? The only answers I can think of are that they don't care about the customs or they truly don't realize that it may be objectionable. Maybe they're ignorant dolts after all.

I don't think so. There is a good number of boys using the gay personals sites, but the numbers don't even begin to compare to the numbers of boys that work in the bars.

"Well, they've got their schedule and I've got mine." -George C. Scott, 'Patton'

Any time, old bean, any time . . . I think Jomtien raises the most important issue. What time is dinner, anyhow?

For those who do not know what Saturday is talking about, he was a moderator on the Pattaya Passions board. He has resigned as a moderator on that board. There has been a recent dispute involving the operation of that board. I was a registered member of that board, but I recently canceled my own membership due to the side of the dispute with which I took issue. I am going to try not to say anything more about it with posts other than this one or get into specifics because I do not believe in using one board to vent about another. In Saturday's case he posted his message on the Pattaya Passions board, but the message was deleted without explanation within a few hours. I authorized him to post his message here, if he so chose. If he had not posted here I would not have written this post. But since he has, I feel this post is necessary as far as it goes. Saturday's reference to 'banter' with me has to do with a different mild dispute between Saturday and me on that board. I was threatened by the board owner that he would cancel my posting privileges if I continued to "harass" his moderators. Saturday did not see any of the banter between us as harassment and considered it to be the same as I considered it to be . . . a debate between our opposing positions. However, at least one of my posts ended up deleted by the board owner, telling me I had violated the posting rules. Neither Saturday nor I felt that any posting rules had been violated, but the board owner felt differently. Of course, I kept a copy of the deleted post, but I see no reason, so far, to post it here. That thread has been locked anyway and the issue is old news by now. I really don't want to get into this any further. I am posting this only for the purpose of trying to clarify what has been going on in light of Saturday's post above. Because I don't want to get too deeply into the specifics it still may not be clear to many of you, but I feel that if I go any further with it then this post will come across as an attempt on my part to discredit the Pattaya Passion board. That is not my intent and I have no desire to do that. Quite frankly I don't give a damn one way or the other. If anyone wishes to see what this is all about, then all you need to do is read the Pattaya Passions board and decide for yourself. If you have comments to make about the dispute, please make them on the Pattaya Passions board. I do not want this board to become involved with it and I doubt that Gay Thailand would want to see that happen either. I did, however, feel that Saturday has the right to air his views if that is what he wished to do. Now he has done that. I see no reason for anything more to be said. I also wish to state that if Gay Thailand wishes to remove this thread and/or my post I have no objection.

I also agree. One aspect of it that's on my "I Don't Get It" list is that they are usually there with other men, meaning they are not lesbians. So, what are they doing on the gay beach? Unless they're blind, there's no way they don't realize they're on a gay beach area.

Yes, there are certainly a greater number of gay holiday makers in town. The numbers seem to me to be significantly higher than the last two years, but the numbers are still down from years past. The trouble is that even with a good number of farang in town, I still see a number of bars close to empty. Regarding the bars, I really don't see a significant increase in numbers of boys, but I do see a lot of "new" boys in the various bars I visit. But I don't go to the bars all that often, so I'll defer to the observations of others. Oddly enough, there actually seems to be a lesser number of boys working the beach these days. That's on my "I Don't Get It" list because there are a hell of a lot more gay farang on the beach lately. A good number of of boys are there to be sure, but most are the "regulars" who work the beaches practically every day anyhow. I don't see very many "new" boys working the beaches lately. That's not just the way I see it. Many of my friends are also commenting about the lack of "eye candy." There were boys galore during the low season. Now that high season is here, they just have not been coming to the beach in large numbers. Perhaps at least part of the reason is this stigma among the Thai boys that dark skin is "no good," so many won't go to the beach at all because they don't want any kind of suntan. What can I say? They're so good looking, but they won't go to the beach. So, instead of loads of great looking boys displaying their bods on the beach, you end up seeing a lot more of aging overweight farang in skimpy attire. Murphy's Law strikes again!

If it is possible for a Thai boy to get a college education and possible for you to provide it, I believe it can only benefit his life. It will certainly provide more and better career opportunities. Yes, it is expensive, but if he qualifies there are scholarships available. I believe student loans are also available.

Sheeeeesh! Until now I thought I had heard everything.

That's the whole point in a nutshell. People allow their ingrained hangups to embarrass them in a country where such hangups do not exist. I realize that it is difficult for some to disregard what they have been taught all their lives, especially when in Thailand for the first time for a one or two week holiday. If they get stares, they're most likely to get them from other farang, not from Thais. For me, it's easy to ignore people like that or even go as far as staring right back or even confronting them. But I do realize that just because I don't have a problem with it doesn't mean that others won't have a problem with it. Still, I have difficulty accepting the idea that some are so self-conscious about it that they would allow even the potential of receiving stares ruin their holiday and cause them to watch everyone else taking boys off, but being too embarrassed to do the same thing themselves. One thing I do know, at least regarding myself; when I am looking toward a farang who has a boy with him, whether walking around Sunee Plaza or anywhere else, or at the beach, I'm not even paying any attention to the farang. I'm checking out the boy.

A close farang friend was fired from his private school teaching position in Pattaya earlier this year, without cause. It was his refusal to fabricate progress, among other similar issues, that caused it. For example, he actually caught, red handed, some Thai teachers at that same school who had made copies of an exam he was about to give, and they provided the students with the answers. And that was just one incident. There were others. He fought back. He sued the school for breach of contract. It took months, but when the case finally appeared in court, the school offered a settlement for less than half of the amount he sought. On the advice of his attorney he accepted the settlement. His attorney told him if he refused the settlement he would still almost certainly win his case, but the school could drag it out for years. If he accepted the settlement the school would have to pay up within 30 days. He chose to accept the settlement. For him it was the principle of the matter, not the money, that was most important to him. He is hoping that the fact that he stood up for his rights, fought back, and won will inspire other honest teachers and make them see that they don't have to feel forced to put up with the dishonesty and intrigue that goes on. The point is that much more than just dealing with students and demands on time are at issue, and you would have to deal with all of it. Horror stories about teaching in Thailand are common. My friend sued and won, which is quite rare to happen in Thailand. He is an excellent, experienced teacher who loves his work and was devoted to it, but after all he went through, he does not wish to be a teacher in Thailand again. He loves teaching and giving it up is difficult for him, but he feels that the peripheral hassles are just not worth it. If anyone wishes to teach in Thailand, I urge you to first talk with people who have done it and make sure you are fully aware and fully understand what you would be stepping into.

I hope you felt more confident once you overcame your anxiety. I don't think it was a lack of confidence in and of itself. The fact that you were in a foreign country, where you neither speak nor understand the language, and being unsure of what to expect in new and unfamiliar surroundings, probably played a part in the cause of your anxiety.

Some may disagree with me, but my advice is to forget all about teaching. If you are considering teaching English on your own, you need a work permit, which won't be easy to get. If you're considering teaching at a school, the school will get you a work permit, but everyone I know who tried it didn't last very long. The salaries are quite low, but the demands on your time are quite high. There are also a great many other problems associated with it. Based on your posts, it does not seem to me that you are going to be in need of supplemental income. $3000 per month is plenty to live quite well here unless you intend to do a lot of high end expensive living. Of course, the more money you have, the merrier, but you don't appear that you'll be in need of it. Given the choice of having to wake up to an alarm clock, spending about 8 hours a day in a school, dealing with kids, parents, and all the associated bullshit, dealing with paperwork, etc, and all for about $700 per month if you're lucky enough to get that much, or waking up whenever you feel like it, doing whatever you please during the day at any time you wish to do it, and maybe heading for the beach instead of a school, I don't think I need to spell out what my choice would be. Again, some will disagree with me, but my advice is if you're going to retire, then retire.

No apology necessary at all. Believe me, if you had spent all the years I've spent on the moderator side of message boards, you would be able to smell these kinds of trolls a mile away too.