Gaybutton

I don't think so. There is a good number of boys using the gay personals sites, but the numbers don't even begin to compare to the numbers of boys that work in the bars.

"Well, they've got their schedule and I've got mine." -George C. Scott, 'Patton'

Any time, old bean, any time . . . I think Jomtien raises the most important issue. What time is dinner, anyhow?

For those who do not know what Saturday is talking about, he was a moderator on the Pattaya Passions board. He has resigned as a moderator on that board. There has been a recent dispute involving the operation of that board. I was a registered member of that board, but I recently canceled my own membership due to the side of the dispute with which I took issue. I am going to try not to say anything more about it with posts other than this one or get into specifics because I do not believe in using one board to vent about another. In Saturday's case he posted his message on the Pattaya Passions board, but the message was deleted without explanation within a few hours. I authorized him to post his message here, if he so chose. If he had not posted here I would not have written this post. But since he has, I feel this post is necessary as far as it goes. Saturday's reference to 'banter' with me has to do with a different mild dispute between Saturday and me on that board. I was threatened by the board owner that he would cancel my posting privileges if I continued to "harass" his moderators. Saturday did not see any of the banter between us as harassment and considered it to be the same as I considered it to be . . . a debate between our opposing positions. However, at least one of my posts ended up deleted by the board owner, telling me I had violated the posting rules. Neither Saturday nor I felt that any posting rules had been violated, but the board owner felt differently. Of course, I kept a copy of the deleted post, but I see no reason, so far, to post it here. That thread has been locked anyway and the issue is old news by now. I really don't want to get into this any further. I am posting this only for the purpose of trying to clarify what has been going on in light of Saturday's post above. Because I don't want to get too deeply into the specifics it still may not be clear to many of you, but I feel that if I go any further with it then this post will come across as an attempt on my part to discredit the Pattaya Passion board. That is not my intent and I have no desire to do that. Quite frankly I don't give a damn one way or the other. If anyone wishes to see what this is all about, then all you need to do is read the Pattaya Passions board and decide for yourself. If you have comments to make about the dispute, please make them on the Pattaya Passions board. I do not want this board to become involved with it and I doubt that Gay Thailand would want to see that happen either. I did, however, feel that Saturday has the right to air his views if that is what he wished to do. Now he has done that. I see no reason for anything more to be said. I also wish to state that if Gay Thailand wishes to remove this thread and/or my post I have no objection.

I also agree. One aspect of it that's on my "I Don't Get It" list is that they are usually there with other men, meaning they are not lesbians. So, what are they doing on the gay beach? Unless they're blind, there's no way they don't realize they're on a gay beach area.

Yes, there are certainly a greater number of gay holiday makers in town. The numbers seem to me to be significantly higher than the last two years, but the numbers are still down from years past. The trouble is that even with a good number of farang in town, I still see a number of bars close to empty. Regarding the bars, I really don't see a significant increase in numbers of boys, but I do see a lot of "new" boys in the various bars I visit. But I don't go to the bars all that often, so I'll defer to the observations of others. Oddly enough, there actually seems to be a lesser number of boys working the beach these days. That's on my "I Don't Get It" list because there are a hell of a lot more gay farang on the beach lately. A good number of of boys are there to be sure, but most are the "regulars" who work the beaches practically every day anyhow. I don't see very many "new" boys working the beaches lately. That's not just the way I see it. Many of my friends are also commenting about the lack of "eye candy." There were boys galore during the low season. Now that high season is here, they just have not been coming to the beach in large numbers. Perhaps at least part of the reason is this stigma among the Thai boys that dark skin is "no good," so many won't go to the beach at all because they don't want any kind of suntan. What can I say? They're so good looking, but they won't go to the beach. So, instead of loads of great looking boys displaying their bods on the beach, you end up seeing a lot more of aging overweight farang in skimpy attire. Murphy's Law strikes again!

If it is possible for a Thai boy to get a college education and possible for you to provide it, I believe it can only benefit his life. It will certainly provide more and better career opportunities. Yes, it is expensive, but if he qualifies there are scholarships available. I believe student loans are also available.

Sheeeeesh! Until now I thought I had heard everything.

That's the whole point in a nutshell. People allow their ingrained hangups to embarrass them in a country where such hangups do not exist. I realize that it is difficult for some to disregard what they have been taught all their lives, especially when in Thailand for the first time for a one or two week holiday. If they get stares, they're most likely to get them from other farang, not from Thais. For me, it's easy to ignore people like that or even go as far as staring right back or even confronting them. But I do realize that just because I don't have a problem with it doesn't mean that others won't have a problem with it. Still, I have difficulty accepting the idea that some are so self-conscious about it that they would allow even the potential of receiving stares ruin their holiday and cause them to watch everyone else taking boys off, but being too embarrassed to do the same thing themselves. One thing I do know, at least regarding myself; when I am looking toward a farang who has a boy with him, whether walking around Sunee Plaza or anywhere else, or at the beach, I'm not even paying any attention to the farang. I'm checking out the boy.

A close farang friend was fired from his private school teaching position in Pattaya earlier this year, without cause. It was his refusal to fabricate progress, among other similar issues, that caused it. For example, he actually caught, red handed, some Thai teachers at that same school who had made copies of an exam he was about to give, and they provided the students with the answers. And that was just one incident. There were others. He fought back. He sued the school for breach of contract. It took months, but when the case finally appeared in court, the school offered a settlement for less than half of the amount he sought. On the advice of his attorney he accepted the settlement. His attorney told him if he refused the settlement he would still almost certainly win his case, but the school could drag it out for years. If he accepted the settlement the school would have to pay up within 30 days. He chose to accept the settlement. For him it was the principle of the matter, not the money, that was most important to him. He is hoping that the fact that he stood up for his rights, fought back, and won will inspire other honest teachers and make them see that they don't have to feel forced to put up with the dishonesty and intrigue that goes on. The point is that much more than just dealing with students and demands on time are at issue, and you would have to deal with all of it. Horror stories about teaching in Thailand are common. My friend sued and won, which is quite rare to happen in Thailand. He is an excellent, experienced teacher who loves his work and was devoted to it, but after all he went through, he does not wish to be a teacher in Thailand again. He loves teaching and giving it up is difficult for him, but he feels that the peripheral hassles are just not worth it. If anyone wishes to teach in Thailand, I urge you to first talk with people who have done it and make sure you are fully aware and fully understand what you would be stepping into.

I hope you felt more confident once you overcame your anxiety. I don't think it was a lack of confidence in and of itself. The fact that you were in a foreign country, where you neither speak nor understand the language, and being unsure of what to expect in new and unfamiliar surroundings, probably played a part in the cause of your anxiety.

Some may disagree with me, but my advice is to forget all about teaching. If you are considering teaching English on your own, you need a work permit, which won't be easy to get. If you're considering teaching at a school, the school will get you a work permit, but everyone I know who tried it didn't last very long. The salaries are quite low, but the demands on your time are quite high. There are also a great many other problems associated with it. Based on your posts, it does not seem to me that you are going to be in need of supplemental income. $3000 per month is plenty to live quite well here unless you intend to do a lot of high end expensive living. Of course, the more money you have, the merrier, but you don't appear that you'll be in need of it. Given the choice of having to wake up to an alarm clock, spending about 8 hours a day in a school, dealing with kids, parents, and all the associated bullshit, dealing with paperwork, etc, and all for about $700 per month if you're lucky enough to get that much, or waking up whenever you feel like it, doing whatever you please during the day at any time you wish to do it, and maybe heading for the beach instead of a school, I don't think I need to spell out what my choice would be. Again, some will disagree with me, but my advice is if you're going to retire, then retire.

No apology necessary at all. Believe me, if you had spent all the years I've spent on the moderator side of message boards, you would be able to smell these kinds of trolls a mile away too.

Unless you are planning to live in a very expensive, high-end residence, I doubt you'll spend that much per month for rent. Depending on where you live, rent for most farang ranges from 12000 to 25000 baht per month. A friend of mine was renting a large two-story house in a quiet security guarded residential neighborhood, 3 bedrooms, two bath, in excellent condition and furnished, with plenty of space and plenty of yard space, and even an adjoining room that was large enough to use as a guest bedroom or large utility room. He was paying 25000 baht per month. Deals like that are readily available. As a matter of fact he just moved away from Pattaya and that house is now available. Another friend recently moved into a beautiful large 2 bedroom, 2 bath apartment, fully furnished, at Jomtien Complex for 25000 baht per month. You would have to use a lot of electricity to receive bills greater than 4000 baht per month. Again, most farang I speak with receive bills that range from 1500 to 3500 baht per month, and it usually depends on how much they use their air conditioning. My friend with that house I mentioned was getting electric bills that averaged 2000 baht. My own electric bills usually range from 2000 to 4000 baht. In the hot months I use my air conditioning and that's when I usually get the bills in the 4000 baht range. Water is very inexpensive and probably won't even be a factor for you. I can't imagine that you will get city water bills that even reach 500 baht per month. Cable TV, depending on the service and selections you want, will probably average around 1500 to 2000 baht per month. Internet service probably will cost between 1000 to 1500 baht per month, depending on the service you get. Telephone. A land line for my ADSL costs me 139 baht per month. Mobile phone, again depending on the service (One-Two-Call seems to be the most popular) is about 3 baht per minute. There is no charge when receiving calls. Food is impossible to predict for you because of such a wide variety of choices and price ranges. In Pattaya, you can literally choose for yourself how much you wish to spend. The average dinner will probably cost you between 250 to 450 baht, depending on what you eat and where you eat. High end restaurants will probably be about double to triple that. If you have drinks and/or wine with your meals, the price goes up. If you have your own place, you might choose to cook at home on a regular basis. You could even hire a cook, if you really want, for about 4000 to 5000 baht per month. Public transportation on the motorcycle taxis and baht buses probably won't cost you more than 200 baht per day, if that much. When you're talking about insurance, you didn't say what kind of insurance. If you mean health insurance, there is a wide variety of companies and plans. The price depends on your age and any pre-existing conditions. Probably the best person for you to contact with regard to medical insurance is Travelerjim. If you're talking about other kinds of insurance, such as car, motorcycle, home-owner's, or whatever, let us know what kind you're looking for. In any case, if you have $5000 to $6000 available each month, I can't imagine that you would have any financial problems and unless you're going to live on the high end every day you probably won't spend near that much per month here.

If you have that amount available to you, then you should be able to live quite well and maintain a lifestyle to which you probably have become accustomed. That's more than enough.

I belong to a religion that teaches when we die, our souls go to a used furniture store in Comus, Maryland.

I agree with that statement The reason I see it as a possible hoax is because, unless I've misunderstood something, this is not his first trip to Thailand, but what is essentially being said, the way I see it, is what I've already said. He'll spend a lot of money traveling here and then sit by himself because people might stare at him or he might be rejected. If that's what he's going to do, then why come here at all? That makes no sense to me, especially when we've told him repeatedly that these boys want to be approached. Anyone with experience here knows that the chances of being rejected by those boys are practically nil. Maybe his fears are genuine. Maybe it is some sort of phobia because in a city like Pattaya that kind of fear is not exactly what I would call rational. However, I've offered some suggestions for him. He's not going to be rejected if he goes to places where the boys will approach him instead of the other way around. It has been suggested he go to Wat Chai after hours. It has been suggested that he simply hand a boy a piece of paper with his name and telephone number written on it. It has been suggested he take a walk around Saranrom Park. Also in Bangkok he can check in to the Malaysia Hotel. Then, all he has to do is sit outside in the Gazebo or walk through the parking area along the hotel sidewalk and he's guaranteed to be approached. He can try Gay Romeo. Silver Daddies, and other personals sites. On Gay Romeo all he has to do is log on and wait a while. Within minutes boys will start contacting him. He won't have to do a thing except sit there and wait. If he tries some of those kinds of suggestions, the kinds that can't possibly involve rejection, and still has problems, then that's where I start feeling truly sympathetic. But if he comes here and won't even try some of those ideas, I would find it difficult to conjure up much sympathy. Again, I've already stated that I accept the possibility that I'm dead wrong about these posts being a hoax. But if they're not, what purpose is served by coming here and then being afraid to do precisely what you came for?

I can agree with that part. If you're telling the truth, then I'm glad you're trying to do something about it. Out of curiosity, how old are you? What have you been doing for sex and boyfriends all this time if you can't handle any rejection or even the thought of it? I don't like getting rejected either. I don't know anyone who enjoys being rejected. But there are so many willing boys here that I don't really care whether I get rejected or not. If one boy rejects me, so what? There are plenty of others who won't. If you go to the right places, a fear of rejection shouldn't even be a factor. The boys will approach you. You can be the one who does the rejecting. If you don't believe me, go to Saranrom Park in Bangkok around 10:00pm some time. It will take about two minutes for you to find out what I mean. I'm not trying to ridicule you, but I do find it very difficult to believe your story. If you're really telling the truth and these posts are not a hoax, then I hope your psychologist can get you past your fears. But for you to say that thousands share the extent of your fear of rejection, even in Thailand, is only an assumption on your part. I'm also not over confident. I am well aware that any time I approach someone new, the possibility of rejection is there. When I do get rejected my ego isn't bruised and, as I said, I know there are plenty more who won't reject me. And I damned sure don't let a fear of rejection stop me from at least trying. "The trick, William Potter, is not minding that it hurts." - Peter O'Toole, 'Lawrence of Arabia'

Quite frankly, this set of posts, on this thread and the "Walk of Shame" thread, is so ludicrous that I'm half convinced that they're not for real and someone is pulling our legs. That's just my feeling, of course, and I could be wrong, but it is becoming quite difficult to accept the idea that grown men, especially gay men who come to Thailand, are too embarrassed to be seen with a bar boy and/or are so riddled with a lack of self confidence and fear of rejection that they're too awkward to even be able to approach a boy. Maybe it's just me, but I don't buy it.

I simply walk up and say hello. I've done that many times and have never been rejected. As a matter of fact the boys I've approached that way have always been delighted that someone wants them. If he is with friends, they are always happy for the boy. Don't forget, that same boy just spent his all of his working hours hoping that a farang will take him off. And after he eats, don't be surprised if he heads for an Internet shop in hopes that someone left a message for him on Gay Romeo. Get on Gay Romeo about 10:00pm, Thailand time. Pay attention to how many boys are currently online. Then get on again at about 1:30am and you'll probably see a lot more boys online. They just got off from work, were not taken off, and now they're hoping to reel someone in via Gay Romeo. You guys have to get over this shyness routine. In Pattaya there is no need for it and by being so shy you're ruining your own holiday. No offense intended, but some of these shyness posts are coming across, at least to me, like a 14 year old kid who is scared to ask a girl for a date. You're adults aren't you? Why the same fears that you would expect from an awkward kid who is frightened to even speak to a girl? Get over it. Don't you understand? These boys want to be approached. That's why they're working in the bars. Every last one of them "want to have farang." You're acting as if you're expecting to receive some kind of a humiliating rejection, when what you're actually going to get is a boy who is very happy to go with you.

If anyone truly does have a problem about walking with a boy, then to me the solution is very simple. Have the boy meet you at your hotel. If necessary give him money for a motorcycle taxi. Don't worry. He'll show up. He wants his tip.

It is? What's the hard part?

Did you send him back because you did not realize he was a lady-boy and you don't like lady-boys or did you send him back because you would have been embarrassed? There's a difference. Lady-boys do not tend to look butch, so if that is really what happened, then that was an unusual circumstance.

You'll find the story and photos at: http://www.pattayadailynews.com/shownews.php?IDNEWS=0000011323