Gaybutton

I was having a look at Gay Romeo today. The Dynamite go-go bar (Pattayaland, Soi 1) placed an ad stating that they are starting a promotion. From 8:30pm to 10:30pm all drinks are 100 baht. Compared to other bars in Pattayaland, that's a good offer. Nothing was said about their price for drinks after 10:30pm, but it would be nice if some of these bars finally figure out that it they want to attract farang customers, then they need to offer more attractive prices and incentives. The ad also says they are offering other promotions, but nothing was said about what those promotions are.

I haven't been to a karaoke bar in ten years. I don't enjoy them. But based on the two posts above I have a question: Do you have to buy an entire bottle of whiskey in the karaoke bars? Can't you just order individual drinks?

While I am in no way suggesting that anyone on this board is a pedophile or in any way supports pedophiles, I think some people are confusing the way they want things to be or the way they believe things are in Thailand with the actual and practical realities that exist. I won't call it age of consent, but I will call it the 'age of safety.' I would have no objection if the age was changed from 18 to 16. I believe, considering the world as it is today, that age would be appropriate. But until that happens, people better stick to 18+.

Unfortunately I think you are right. I really had thought that since even the FBI was involved this would be one case that is going somewhere. While I still don't understand why the FBI was involved, if indeed it really was, I would have thought they wouldn't bother if there was any reason to believe that nothing substantial would result. Now I'm not so sure. If nothing comes of this case, I believe it will only backfire and actually encourage some bar owners to keep hiring under-age boys and make the Sunee Plaza problems even worse.

Oh well, I thought we did. Actually I made no dispute about the technical legal age of consent at all. I don't know where you're getting that from. What I have been "blithely" trying to say is that no matter what the age of consent is on paper, in reality it doesn't work that way. I can't believe you don't know that. If you are trying to convince people that they are in safe legal territory if they have sex with boys between the ages of 15 and 17, then you are misleading naive people, especially people who are about to make a first trip to Thailand. People need to understand that age of consent or no age of consent, money changing hands or no money changing hands, in Thailand farang are safe only if the boy is 18+ years old. Do you disagree? Does anyone out there disagree? Is there anyone who takes a position that you are not at risk if you engage in sex with boys under 18 years old in Thailand? I will, however, concede one thing: To my knowledge there has only been one arrest ever made of a farang who took an under-age boy off from a bar. I also take a position that in today's world, there is no reason that I would consider valid for the age of consent, both legally and practically, to be 18. In my opinion it ought to be 16.

Free as in the charges have been dropped or free as in he's out on bail? Has anyone who has been to the bars since this incident noticed any changes in regards to under-age boys? Does this arrest mean something for once, or is it just another farce?

Must have evidence? In Thailand???? With a farang bar owner accused of selling under-age sex? Maybe he'll somehow get out of it, but I doubt it even if he has the big bucks. There's already been too much publicity. But let's say he can get out of it. He might have a shot at it if they grant him bail. If they don't then even if proven innocent, by the time the case makes it to court he already will have spent a great deal of time in a Thai prison. It usually takes months, often more than a year, before cases here ever see the first light of day in Thai courts. I think the best he can hope for is getting a reduced sentence if he confesses. No matter what, by now I think, without mentioning the name, you already know at which bar the arrest took place. I also think you are probably also well aware that particular bar does employ under-age boys. No matter what the outcome, I don't think I would want to be in his shoes. There's one way to find out if this incident has frightened the bar owners. Within the next several days I'm going to take a look at some of these bars myself and see if there are obviously under-age boys still working. While I would love not to see under-age boys anymore, my guess is that nothing has really changed at all. We'll soon see.

That's exactly the point. I think you and I agree. What are we arguing about? I know the question asked what the age of consent is. Just last year I learned to read.

Details are on the Gay Ting & Tong Board: http://www.gaytingtong.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=6480

True. I know only the unreal facts. And believe me, the facts I know are unreal! I think you know as well as anyone that a number of bars in Sunee Plaza have under-age boys. What other facts do you need? If the Frenchman who was arrested after having been the target of these investigations turns out to be not guilty, I'll be happy for him, but still there is no denying about the under-age boys working in the bars. I'll take a witch hunt for the people responsible for it, and burning the witches at the stake would probably be more merciful than what they'll face if and when they're finally caught.

With only 3 or 4 people sitting outside watching the screen and so few farang going to the Day-Night area? I hardly think so.

Click the link to read the PATTAYA MAIL article: http://www.pattayamail.com/current/news.shtml#hd17

Maybe someone who thinks the Red-Shirts get hungry . . .

Good! This is the kind of witch hunt I'm in favor of. My only objection is that they seem to be singling out foreign bar owners. I don't see that as discriminatory. I see that as a step in the right direction. I believe they will go after Thai scofflaw bar owners too. If they can rid Sunee Plaza of the under-age boys, they will also be ridding Sunee Plaza of the plague of pedophiles that come to Thailand and ruin things for everyone else. I think Sunee Plaza has been dying a slow death because of the under-age boys and pedophiles. Many farang are reluctant to even go to Sunee Plaza for fear of being caught up in this, stigmatized, and fear of taking a boy off who claims he is 18 and can even show ID that he is 18, but it turns out he was under-age anyway. I think most farang customers, the ones who have no intention of taking an under-age boy off for sex, are sick and tired of having to play "Guess His Age" instead of being able to rest assured that the boy of interest is at least 18 years old. The bars that do make sure their boys are 18+ and are not drug users suffer too. Less customers come to Sunee Plaza in the first place and the same fears affect them in the "legitimate" bars. I don't see any reason why people have to be afraid to go to Sunee Plaza and I agree that it's high time something substantial is done so that people can have a good time instead of having to wonder who's watching and if he is falling victim to a boy trying to dupe him about his age. Also, I have yet to meet anyone whose idea of a pleasant evening includes being inside a bar when the police stage a raid. I hope that this kind of move will clean out Sunee Plaza. I also hope the move to legalize prostitution succeeds. And I hope this kind of crackdown affects any bar at which under-age boys are employed regardless of the nationality of the owner. But I still don't understand why the FBI is involved. The fact that the FBI, an American police agency, apparently was involved in the investigation and arrest of a French national operating an illegal bar in Thailand is still on my "I Don't Get It" list.

Hedda has always maintained his anonymity and privacy. Unless Hedda chooses to let people know why he has discontinued posting or why, apparently at his own request, the "Hedda's Hopper" forum has been locked, I have a feeling all anybody is going to be able to do is guess.

I'm trying to prevent these posts from misleading people new to Thailand and getting themselves into trouble. Quoting the law is not much help when in reality it just doesn't work that way. Don't forget that Thailand is a guilty unless proven innocent country. Anyone who gets sexually involved with someone under the age of 18 is placing himself at great risk of arrest, prosecution, and prison time, not to mention the huge cost of getting yourself out of trouble if you can get out of it at all. But if you're arrested you can always start quoting the law to the police. I'm sure they'll listen to you . . . all the way downtown. The bottom line is very simple. Forget about the age of consent laws. It's not going to help you one bit if you are caught engaging in sex with someone under 18 years old. The age of consent laws are fine if it happens to be two young people having sex with each other. But does anyone truly think a Thai judge is going to believe that a 50+ year old farang and a 15, 16, or 17 year old boy were having sex without money or prostitution being involved? Good luck with that one. You'll need it. Another little thing . . . the age of consent laws are not the only laws that apply. Many farang, for example, have been charged with taking a minor without the consent of the parents. That's a serious crime in Thailand too and is viewed by the courts much the same as kidnapping. Fortunately, though, in many cases the charges are dropped if you can come to a suitable financial arrangement with the family that they will accept. Let's see, how much was that fully furnished new house, new car, and water buffalo? And don't forget the large flat screen TV. Do what you want folks, but that's quite a set of risks just so that you can have a real nice cum that lasts a few seconds. Take Viagra first. That way, maybe your cum will last a little longer. It will be a very pleasant memory when you start getting those midnight conjugal visits from some big grotesque oaf you don't want one from. You have no problem if the boy is at least 18 years old. If he is younger than 18 you are placing yourself at risk. Go ahead. Have sex with a 15 year old if you want to. Personally, if you really do I think you're nuts. If you're caught, when you have to face the consequences you can't say I didn't do my best to warn you.

I hope you're not trying to convince people that sex with a 15, 16, or 17 year old is perfectly ok. It isn't. On a technical level you may be right, but on a practical level if a farang gets caught involved sexually with a boy of those ages, he's had it. Do you disagree?

You're right. I misread his post.

Yesterday afternoon I tried Camfrog. I wasn't on there more than 5 minutes when a young gentleman, who just happened to be very much my type, chimed in. His English was good and it turned out he is a massage boy at one of the local gay massage places. It also turns out that he lives only a few minutes from my place. I'll be meeting him early this afternoon. Thank you again, guys, for making it clear how to use Camfrog. Anyone else want to ask me why I love living here so much . . . ?

"Only little people pay taxes." - Leona Helmsley I can think of many adjectives to describe GT, but 'little' wouldn't be one of them. Bars that have free munchies, but not the kind I like. Bars with grumpy customers. Bars that let me come in. "I don't want to belong to any club that will accept me as a member." - Groucho Marx

Don't leave us in suspense. What happened when you pointed out that you received only 30 minutes and you're not going to pay for 90 minutes?

The only safe age of consent for a foreigner is if the boy is 18 years old, or older. The tip amount is your personal choice. If the boy stays with you for only one or two hours, which we refer to as "short time," I recommend giving him 1000 baht as a tip. If he stays overnight with you, which we refer to as "long time," then I recommend 1500 baht as a tip. Some may agree with me. Some may argue that my recommendation is not enough or is too much, but the boys will be happy with those amounts.

I also don't understand why the FBI would have been involved. Without some sort of explanation to make sense of it, that's the latest item on my "I Don't Get It" list. Until now I never knew that my tax dollar was working to help arrest citizens of one country committing crimes in another country, neither of which is the USA. Maybe the USA really does want to become the police of the entire world. There must be some reason why the FBI was involved. I would like to know the reason.

Here's a question for you. On Gay Romeo, and several other personals sites, many of the Thai boys use ZA as a part of their user name. "Pattaya-ZA." What does ZA mean? I can't find the answer to that anywhere.

Now you know what to get me for Christmas. Don't worry, I can wait . . .