PeterRS

And for those who believe the baloney, I failed to mention the efforts made by Quatar to find a peaceulf solution. https://thepeninsulaqatar.com/article/28/10/2023/qatar-affirms-commitment-to-continuing-diplomatic-efforts-to-endbloodshed-of-palestinians

The fact is you cannot. You misread my post and assumed only the three warring parties would be involved in any peace settlement. Odd how you have forgotten all those countries which have been involved in peace processes in the past - Norway, the Madrid Conference, the Geneva conference, Egypt,Jordan and a host of others. If you seriously think that conflicts are only settled by the particpants, your knoweldge of recent history is remarkably slim. How about Northern ireland. Two bitter Anglo_irish foes brought together by the USA and peace resulted. Emjoy the baloney!

You obviously do`

Some years ago i was thinking that I might consider leaving Bangkok to live in Taipei. Naturally I like Taiwanese. Like Bangkok Guy I also like peace and quiet. What put me off was basically one thing - noise! I could only have afforded an apartment on the outskirts of Taipei and I was concerned at how thick or thin the walls night be. Given that it is prone to earthquakes and typhoons, I assumed pretty thick. But what if neighbours to the right, left and above enjoyed playing mahjong regularly? Since throwing the tiles down on the table is part of the fun, I reckoned it would be all but impossible to keep that noise out of what I planned as a peaceful abode. So I finally ditched the idea.

That is absolute baloney!

Prefectly understood. But if you can show me where I specifically stated that only the USA/Israel and Iran should be involved in working out peace, then I will happily apologise. If you can not do that, perhaps you will have the decency to apologise.

And you canot have it both ways either. Of course I referred merely to three nations involved in a conflict. I did not at any time state that a solution was only up to those three? Or did you have difficulty understanding that? Sorry @reader but the hell is you did!

I notice that Israel is now releasing phone conversations purportedly illustrating the bloodthirstiness of the Palestinian terorists. These may be true verbal captures, in which case they should be condemned in the strongest possible terms. But let's remember that nothing has yet been proved. Use of craftily manufactured "evidence" is regularly used in conflicts and war situations. Can we forget the heartbreaking 1990 appearance of Nayirah who appeared before a US Congressional Committee about the hideous crimes of the Iraqi forces which had invaded Kuwait? The 15-year old refugee testified she had witnessed Iraqi soldiers taking babies out of incubators and the babies left to die. Her descriptions were backed up by the British-based Amnesty International and repeated frequently by US Senators and Congressmen. In a frenzy of PR activity, newspapers recounted tales of incubators being shipped off to Iraq. Variously 12 and up to 22 babies had been left to die on the floors. On September 30, US News & World Report reported that it had received secret US government cables based on eewitness accounts revealing "shocking acts of brutality by the Iraqs against innocent citizens at Kuwaiti hospitals." Kuwait denied access of journalists to the scenes of the deaths. So big did the story become it was one of the platforms for Bush Snr's invasion. Yet it was virtually all lies! On January 6, 1992, The New York Times revealed that the girl in question was not a refugee but the daughter of the Kuwaiti Ambassador to the USA. Her testimony had been written for her by the Citizens for a Free Kuwait PR Campaign. This had been organised on a for-profit basis by the American PR company Hill & Knowlton on behalf of the Kuwaiti government. It had also both coached the girl's testimony in advance and then arranged for it to be filmed and the tape sent to 700 US news media organisations. The Times journalist John MacArthur also revealed that the incubator lies had skewed the American debate as to whether or not to suport military action. Hill & Knowlton aserted it had no reason to doubt the veracity of the testimony, yet it had advised its client that the most effective tool in manipulating public opinion would be to emphasis atrocities. It is estimated to have received US$12 million for its work. Amnesty International later issued a retraction.

I made no such mistake! What i questioned was "Until something can be done about the US/srael/Iran conflict, is there even the remotest chance of peace?" I also clearly stated that Iran has "shown with their actions they are prepared to spread out over the Middle East to take on America and its allies." You put words into my post for at no time did I ever state - or have i ever stated - that a solution lies only in the hands of these three nations. Of course other nations have to be involved.

From The Guardian 24 October The pope has accepted the resignation of a Polish bishop whose diocese has been rocked by reports of a gay orgy involving a male sex worker in a priest’s apartment, as well as previous violent incidents involving his clergy. The Vatican did not give a reason why Grzegorz Kaszak was resigning as head of the diocese of Sosnowiec, in south-western Poland. At 59, he is several years shy of the normal retirement age of 75. But his diocese has been in the spotlight after one of his priests was placed under criminal investigation for having allegedly organised an orgy at his apartment in Dąbrowa Górnicza involving a male sex worker. Polish media reported that one of the participants of the sex party collapsed after overdosing on erectile dysfunction pills. A prosecutor said the priest was suspected of “failing to provide assistance to a person whose life is at risk” for having allegedly tried to bar paramedics from entering the apartment. It was not the first incident involving clergy from the diocese to make headlines. In 2010, the then acting rector of the Sosnowiec seminary allegedly got into a scuffle at a gay club, but was allowed to remain in his job for more than a year even after the case was publicised by Polish media. The Holy See finally intervened and dissolved the seminary altogether, according to the PAP news agency. In March 2023, the corpse of a 26-year-old deacon was found with injuries suggesting homicide. Local prosecutors said he had been killed by a 40-year-old priest who then killed himself. In a statement on Tuesday, Kaszak said he had asked the pope to let him resign in a letter dated 29 September. He thanked the priests and nuns of his diocese and asked “everyone to forgive my human limitations”. More at https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/oct/24/pope-accepts-resignation-polish-bishop-grzegorz-kaszak-gay-orgy-scandal-diocese

WIth the greatest respect, what you wrote was "now reader is right, Israel got attacked and has every right to defend itself." And did you not write earlier in the thread "While other countries hit may decide not to retaliate and restrains themselves for world's common good, Israel due to it's small size will have no option than to respond in kind"? Is Gaza not even smaller than Israel? I fully agree that in other posts you have talked about resolution by peaceful means. I think every sane person agrees with that. The problem, as we all know, is that several countries have participated in attempted peace processes that have come to nothing. Both parties in the conflict are as guilty as the other for ensuring this. As this has been going on, Israel has continued a massive expansion of its settlements into what were Arab lands, rockets have continued to be showered down on Israel just as they have from israel to Gaza. In my view - and I know @reader will come back and criticise me for bringing Iran back into the matter(!) - Israel can possibly succeed in wiping out Hamas. That in the view of many will "avenge" the horrific attacks on its people. But we all know that Iran is the backer of Hamas, just as it is the backer of Hezbollah. With no Hamas, Iran will certainly find another proxy to achieve its ghastly ends against Israel. The mullahs in Iran hate America. They have shown with their actions they are prepared to spread out over the Middle East to take on America and its allies. Until something can be done about the US/srael/Iran conflict, is there even the remotest chance of peace?

As you rightly pointed out, hatred of communism resulted in actions by several countries which would no doubt be counted as crimes in normal times. The Cold War split the world into areas of influence with the two main participants, the US and the USSR, desperate to prove to all that its system was the better. Kissinger is greatly admired around the world as one of its greatest statesmen. With the benefit of hindsight, that reputation is unlikely to last much longer than his death, whenever that may occur. In earlier posts, I have mentioned his participation, direct or indirect, the latter through promises of non-intervention, in many wars. He was in Jakarta the day before Indonesia invaded East Timor. He was in Islamabad the day before West Pakistan lauched its murderous war with Bengali East Pakistan. And so on. One of the more recent books about Kissinger is The Blood Telegram: Nixon, Kissinger, and a Forgotten Genocide by Gary Bass. This specifically focuses on the Pakistan war, but it could equally cover other conflicts as other books have done. The New York Times review included the following - "This is a dark and amazing tale, an essential reminder . . . Devastating . . . Shocking . . . Nixon and Kissinger spent the decades after leaving office burnishing their images as great statesmen. This book goes a long way in showing just how undeserved those reputations are." The Washington Post review was as bad - "A profoundly disturbing account of the hitherto hidden role of Richard Nixon and Henry Kissinger in the slaughter of hundreds of thousands . . . Bass has defeated the attempted coverup through laborious culling of relevant sections of the Nixon White House tapes, declassified State Department documents and interviews with former officials, American and Indian, who were involved . . . After reading Bass's account of this shameful episode, one has to . . . conclude that where the Bengalis were concerned, Kissinger and Nixon simply did not give a damn." This is just one book in what is becoming a library of books about Kissinger and his participation in the slaughter of many millions around the world. It would be interesting as a counterpoint to read similar exposes of the evils done by Khrushchev, Kosygin, Brezhnev, Mikoyan, Andropov and their henchmen.

I don't regard that statement as defensive! When one poster is repeatedly claimed to have one view that is inaccurate, it becomes incredibly boring. But it does not mean that the other poster has to sit back and accept the criticism. After all, were you dear @vinapu not suggesting the eye for an eye principle on an earlier post?

International relations are rarely simple. The Vietnamese invaded partly to stop incursions and killings on its territory by the Khmer Rouge. Mercifully Vietnam did invade for it finally put a stop to the Pol Pot genocide. But Cambodia pre-Pol Pot was allied to several countries including China and it was to Beijing that Prince Norodom Sihanouk fled after the 1970 coup. Sihanouk backed the Khmer Rouge as did China. And when Sihanouk returned in 1975 it was as the figurehead head of state in the Khmer Rouge government. Although he soon became disillusioned with Pol Pot' regime, China did not. After the Vietnamese invasion, It continued to back the Khmer Rouge, even training its fighters. China and Vietnam were traditional enemies, and partly because of the invasion, the Chinese then invaded Vietnam in February 1979. The China-Vietnam war lasted a mere 4 weeks, ending after it captured a few Vietnamese town on March 6. I remember that so well for I flew from the UK to Hong Kong on March 2. As a result of the war, all flights were denied Vietnam airspace. Those from Bangkok to Hong Kong had to fly down and around, resulting in an additional hour's flying time. Going back to the issue of Thailand welcoming Pol Pot, one reason for this was Kissinger's request to Prime Minister Chatuchai on November 26 1975. Kissinger said that the US would support the Khmer Rouge despite their being "evil". "They are murderous thugs but we won't let that stand in our way. We are prepared to improve relations with them." Sadly, after the humiliation of the war in Vietnam, there was no way the US would wish to be seen encouraging that country. After the Vietnamese invasion, the US slapped even more sanctions on Vietnam and then blocked the IMF from loaning more to the country. To be fair, this US view was echoed by many other countries who also backed the fallen Khmer Cambodia over its Vietnamese invaders throughout the 1980s.

Ariel Sharon who led the 1982 massacre of Palestinians in the Lebanon refugee camps deliberately provoked Palestinians when he became leader of Likud. In 2000 he made a visit to the Muslim Shrine which is one of the key cornerstones of the Israeli Palestinian conflict. He made a lengthy and much publicised visit to the Temple Mount, the site of the Dome of the Rock and the third holiest shrine in Islam, known as the Haram al-Sharif to Muslims. The site is also revered by Jews. It was then situated in Arab East Jerusalem, illegally occupied by Israel since 1967. Had it been a wholly private visit, perhaps it would not have provoked much anger. But he made 100% certain it was publicised days in advance and he was surrounded by a media horde as well as over 100 armed police and even more soldiers protecting him. He knew full well that this would goad Palestinians into a major reaction. And he was right. Following the visit, he stated, "What provocation is there when Jews come to visit this place with a message of peace?" Peace? From an acknowledged warmonger, that was a joke! Re the 1982 massacres, an independent UN commission led by Irish diplomat Sean MacBride concluded that the Israeli Defence Forces bore reponsibility. The commission ruled the killings a form of genocide.

Given that two of the workers did the maintenance on Saturday, I can confirm that both were well into their 50s! In over 20 years I have never seen any young apprentice (unless those over 40ish are considered young) when air conditioning has been serviced.

Oh I understood perfectly well! But sarcasm in relation to the present situation in Israel/Gaza is more than a mere waste of words! Constant repetition of my being anti-American is equally so.

Now THAT I can understand 🤣

What on God's good earth has that to do with the Israeli Palestinian conflict? You do bring up some weird analogies. As for the Marshall Plan you have clearly forgotten or chosen to forget earlier posts I made on that subject in other threads. On April 20, 2020, in response to one of your threads Cambodia, Vietnam Take Different Paths in which once again you allege that I am anti-American, I wrote the following in response to one of your posts - QUOTE Reader, you make very good points. I am not anti American. But America has made more than its fair share of foreign relations mistakes, just as Britain, France, Belgium, the Netherlands, Russia, China and other countries have done over the centuries. But you do twist facts. Yes, under the lend lease program America helped the United Kingdom in World War 2 before Germay declared War on it. Yet the same program provided arms and materiel to the USSR. Roosevelt made it very clear it was in America's interest to do so. Similarly with the Marshall Plan, a truly visionary program that rebuilt western Europe in record time. Again, though, this was primarily in the US interests. America was desperate that the advance of the communist Soviet Union stopped at the soon to be East German border. Without the Marshall Plan, so ravaged was western Europe that the Soviet Union would quickly have been at the Atlantic shoreline. UNQUOTE I could have added that General De Gaulle had stated on the record he would permit such an advance if the strongly anti-colonial USA did not permit the French to resume colonisation of Indo-China! If you choose to believe that the Marshall Plan caused Europe not to recover from the ravages of WWII, that is your problem, not mine.

Worthy try, I suppose. But given that she is over 50 and he is probably 60 or so . . .

Keep going, @spoon. You'll get it right eventually, I'm sure.

I guess I respected my parents but by the time I got to university all I wanted was to get away from the nest and live my own life elsewhere. I never regarded them as my responsibility, perhaps because by the time they got into their 70s I had moved 9,000 kms away.

He fled to Thailand after the Vietnamese invasion which liberated the country after Pol Pot's genocide. Thais have traditionally hated the Vietnamese and seen the country as an enemy. Military commanders had seen Pol Pot as a buffer between the two states. That they should indirectly have condoned Pol Pot's actions is utterly shameful.

Why on earth would I wish to do that? I am based in Thailand not another country. Besides, I have a pretty good idea about the principles of western logic. I studied Greek at school and have a reasonable grasp of Aristotle's theory.

The spin doctors on both sides will be working overtime. Getting away with it is a different matter if you massacre tens of thousands and more Palestinians just because you want their elected leaders out. And let's not forget. Who insisted that the Palestinians have elections? Filled with his fanciful and ultimately idiotic, hugely expensive for the US taxpayer and ultimately doomed notion that he could bring democracy to a part of the world that had all but never known it, George Bush Jnr. took his crusade to Palestine. He wanted an alternative to Arafat and thought (never bothered to check, though) that most Palestinians agreed. When Mahmoud Abbas succeeded Arafat on his death, Bush pressed even harder for elections. The Israelis did not agree for their government knew there was more than a good chance that Hamas would win. Bush continued his crusade in a meeting with Abbas in Washington on January 2006. He was certain Fatah would win. Bush even pressured Abbas to shift power away from the Palestinian President's office to the Prime Minister's. I have no idea what idiots were staffing the US State Department's Middle East department at the time, but everyone apart from Israel got it hopelessly wrong. As did Abbas. With egg all over his face and in an attempt to spin the result, Bush worked hard to get the international community to confirm the elections were rigged and called for new ones! It all backfired spectacularly. He even had Secretary of State Condoleeza Rice promise Abbas US$86.4 million in aid specifically to bolster forces under his direct control. Whereas Hamas' traditional source of funds from the USA then started to dry up, it turned to Iran. Congress was unhappy and cut the amount to $59 million. Bush then got on to his assumed allies in Egypt, Saudia Arabia, Jordan and the UAE to make up the difference. Anti Hamas actions by the US continued for years. Yet again cavalier US actions and the seemingly inbuilt belief that it knows better have regrettably returned to bite it and its allies.