PeterRS

Sorry to hear you are not well and best wishes for a speedy recovery. I am curious why Singapore guys are abandoning Thailand in favour of Taiwan. What do you think are the reasons for this?

You are "sure", but you are not certain. Its a free magazine. Like you I have no idea how profitable or otherwise the magazine might actually be. Do you really think those ads from bars and saunas bring in much cash? I mentioned another free magazine ThailandOut. I have no idea about its finances. All I know is that it had some inaccurate listings. It also had ads. It cannot have been profitable because the print magazine ended and it became an online publication. Then that died and the publisher fled Thailand. Whether or not the two events are related I don't know. Its immaterial here. There was also another similar free magazine available in many of the gay venues. It too died. I think z909s suggestion was not that anyone become a scout. That takes time and trouble. Being paid for that would be very reasonable. But it only takes a few minutes at most to contact a publisher to point out what is wrong and/or what is missing. That way you provide a service to the rest of the gay community. Not doing so but complaining about it sounds somewhat hollow IMHO.

I am in two minds about maps and listings. On the one hand I get pissed off when one or other (or even both) is wrong. On the other I accept reality. Given that gay venues now open and close with greater frequency than before it must be a huge problem obtaining information and then, worse, keeping it all updated. Years ago there was a rather good gay magazine ThailandOut in English published by a farang in Chiang Mai. Its maps were pretty good but still not fully accurate or fully comprehensive. It did act on comments from readers and obviously tried to update them, but it could never get up to date. I wonder how many posters realise that this site is not just a chat room. It has a great deal of information on its home pages for gay residents and visitors. Much of it is extremely useful. Even so, some listings are considerably out of date. In the Bangkok massage spa section Albury, Aqua and Fan Club are listed. Not sure of the dates but I think all closed about 3 years ago. Under Pattaya bars, Krazy Dragon, Wild West Boys and Yaya are listed. Again, all closed their doors probably at least 2 years ago. I mention this only because the whole business of obtaining information, checking it and getting precise locations must take a great deal of time. This is even more true now that many gay venues in Bangkok are spread quite far from the city centre. Once the basic information has been obtained, how do you keep it up to date? Do the publications have enough cash to pay someone to do that? Unlikely IMHO. Will the venues themselves tell you when they close down? Why should they bother? I havent seen Thaipuan for at least a year. From a quick look online, the basic listings seem pretty good, although oddly there is no listing for Sauna Mania in Bangkok which has been around for years. There is also no listing for the trio of bars close to the Mango Tree - Super A, Golden Cock and Nature Boys. But surely that illustrates how difficult obtaining the information for listings must be especially now when gay venues sit on constantly shining sands.

That is not what i said. The point I was trying to make was really very simple. If you live on the west coast of the US and want a vacation that includes meeting up with other guys whether they are Asian, Latin American or of whatever nationality, it is now easier and faster to fly to South America or Australia than it is to Thailand. So the gay tourist holiday world has grown a lot larger than it was a few decades ago. sglad is absolutely correct in mentioning the arrival in Thailand of many more Chinese and Asians. When compared to the western tourists of yesteryear the problem for the bar owners though is that it seems they go to bars primarily for one drink and to see a show. More than one mamasan has told me that so far they are far less interested in offs. One reason for drinks prices having shot up. The majority find their sex in the saunas, gay massage spas and I assume the apps. But sglad is spot on in his final sentences. The gogo bar business model is outdated and needs to change to survive.

Fair question! As we age and gain greater experience of life and what it offers its only natural our perceptions change. But I honestly do not believe it necessarily follows that our views on nighttime entertainment change, or at least change much. I reckon it is perfectly clear from comments on the various chat forums that my views are quite common. With rare exceptions, what is on offer in the gogo bars is a shadow of what used to be offered. I also reckon your analogy between the bars and a historical monument like Wat Arun is flawed. My appreciation of Wat Arun actually grows each and every time I am fortunate to see it again. Like a Botticelli painting it never fails to fill me with awe. What is offered in the bars has gone in the opposite direction. I know from the views of many recent visiting friends who never knew what they were like decades ago that they agree. I am delighted you had a great time. But isnt it horses for courses again? If the views of the majority seem to be gloom, gloom, gloom, do you not think there might be more that a grain of truth in their views?

An excellent summary by spoon. If the bars are not providing entertainment and instead giving such a negative impression to a relative newcomer, the business model is shot to pieces. It either changes radically or eventually goes the way of the dinosaur.

I honestly do not agree with the rosy tinted spectacle analogy. Entering a gogo bar 15, 25 or even 35 years ago there was a sort of gob smacked disbelief “Wow! Am I really seeing all this?” The quote in Hanans post really does sum it up pretty well. Those bars were tremendous fun. That fun element has all but disappeared and been replaced with routine boredom and boring routines. He could have added that gogo bars are now exclusively for a dwindling band of tourists. Thais used to flock to them. What happened to them? A business model dependant almost exclusively on short term visitors can never survive unless it is constantly reinventing itself. Remember there are not so many posters in this forum. Since they have been making increasingly negative comments about the experience, is it strange that writ large this will also be felt by the much larger group of gay tourists? I had friends here from the USA a few weeks ago. They too were bored. I doubt if that would have been the reaction a few decades back. These guys are not into massages with happy endings. They prefer overnight. They did check the apps but as it was their first visit to Bangkok and they had a lot of sightseeing during the days, they found it not so easy to hook up with guys they thought they would like because it took too long to set up hook ups. They had set aside their evenings for fun. What they found was more than disappointing. Their highlight was Babylon, which they really enjoyed and was inexpensive. Different strokes for different folks. Vinapu's report about his 90 minute massage at Senso for 1,490+1,500 tip to me is outrageous. But he was happy. American tourists can just as easily go to Sydney or Melbourne where they will instantly find many hundreds of cute Asians on the apps most of whom just want to meet up and have no interest in pay for play. Go to South America and they will find vast numbers of smooth slim sexy guys waiting. Most may want a small tip but the sex is usually amazing! If Thailand bar operators continue to concentrate on a dying outmoded model and continuously increasing prices, they are bound to die out. Just look at Sunee Plaza in Pattaya which was thriving 10 years ago but where yet another bar has just announced it is closing. I put its survival as a couple of years at most. The gay world has become global. For those who enjoy Thailand, great. Keep on coming. Unfortunately many who would normally have Thailand top of their list have already voted with their feet.

Thank for the info. Do you know when it reopened?

Wishful thinking I fear. I am not sure how many owners are expats and how many Thai. But never expect any group of Thais or Thai business owners to agree on just about anything! The Titanic may sink but it will be the fault of the iceberg, not the ship and its crew.

Judging from a number pf earlier articles there was definitely a request at the end of each one for readers to leave comments. I think it meant registering first, but people register for most forums if they want to take part. Checking just now I see very few readers bothered to comment. Added to the lack comments I suspect readership hits must also have been low and this prevented Buckbee from generating ad revenue. It pisses me off that some sites like gaypassport.com are able to continue even though it is often massively out of date in terms of its gay Asia listings and yet continues to promote almost exclusively high end hotels. This particular site lists G.O.D. and the original Jupiter as not only being open but having been last reviewed on 23 January 2018. Total lies! Both had been closed for some time by then. Didnt G.O.D. close its doors at least two years ago? I also think updating any blog on a daily basis is probably an impossibility if Buckbee has a regular job. Even Christianpfc who is not in full time employment and whose blog is read and commented on by many often has several days between posts. But still, a sad day for those of us interested in gay happenings and stories about Asia.

Was in Senso twice about three years ago. Way too expensive, Good massages but only so so afters. Maybe if it reduced its prices the masseurs would get more customers.

Whenever I have been to Japan, the Immigration queues for non Japanese on entry have usually been huge. 45-60 minutes was usual a few years ago even tho the Japanese line officials often had no queues at all. Never once did I see anyone from the foreigner line be moved to keep those on the Japanese lines occupied. I wonder how successful facial will be? Some passports last ten years and the photos in them could be a year or so older than that. Over 11 years, a man could have gone bald, men and women have to start wearing spectacles etc.. Quite a number of facial features could have changed as people age. It seems many airports are adopting different systems London has iris recognition. Last time I entered, I was stopped. It didn't recognise my eyes! Taipei uses fingerprints on entry and exit but exit is now automatic with a quick passport scan and fingerprints. No departure cards. Takes 10 seconds or less. Not sure if there is worldwide airport security body. If there is I cant understand why it does not get international airports to standardise their procedures.

I suggest you have made a wise decision. It will be far less expensive on your savings. You will not be tied down to anyone in particular but can still form a longer term relationship if you like. You can also opt for a considerably cheaper studio or small condo unit where you can do your own thing and not be bothered with live in Thai guys wanting their local TV all the time! Have a great stay.

Many thanks for the info. Very interesting. It doesn't seem fair that a business class return London to BKK is 120,000 miles using the CX Asia Miles programme and soon to go up to 130,000. 70K miles for a trans pacific return on a longer route is a huge bargain.

I hope DivineMadman is right about studios available in the Silom/Surwong area. I doubt it but will be happy to be proved wrong. The OPs total monthly preferred budget remember is only about 40,000 baht inclusive of everything. Added to the negative column, I dont think anyone has mentioned medical and personal accident insurance. Since the OP is from the USA, does his insurance cover him in Thailand? Depending ion his age, thats could be another cost factor to put into the mix.

I am genuinely curious. How is it possible to get 40K miles for one return trip. Is your flight from SFO to BKK? Are you getting those miles in Coach or Biz? The basic mileage should be around 8,000-9,000. With 25% biz bonus, that should not be more than about 22,500. Even at 80,000 miles, how does that earn a free biz class ticket? I am obviously flying on the wrong airlines! If you fly Europe to BKK in biz, you get around 6,000 x 2 x 1.25 = 15,000 miles. For a free ticket you need 120,000 to 150,000 miles - i.e.after a minimum 8 return trips.

Stand by for very considerable flight delays during the more than a year this exercise will take. After all, the revised design capacity of the airport is 45 million passengers It was supposed to handle all flights in and out of Bangkok but is now handling 60 million plus. Thank goodness Don Mueang was not scrapped because it is now handling 38 million. Funny thing is. After IATA complained publicly about the asphalt holes at the parking gates these were supposed to have been fixed. Seems either they were not or more have opened up. Also the article says runway surfaces should be replaced every 8-10 years. If I recall correctly, the airport has been open since 2016 and I recall only partial resurfacing since then. Not sure Id be happy landing at BKK now in an A380.

All the points are interesting and thanks guys for making them. I am sure planners in places like LA and San Francisco have been going through the same ones - and lots more. But I still am not convinced! Spoon - you suggest more of the flyers between KL and Singapore are business people. Sorry, that just does not fly with the large number of budget flights and the masses of economy seats on the legacy carriers. Most business people will take biz seats and some Y seats on the legacy carriers where they get a degree of service, I reckon. My guess is that a very large percentage of the travellers are leisure rather than on business. I havent done it but I am 99% certain that leisure passenger traffic between the city pairs I mentioned in my previous post has increased massively since the fast train services started. I know people in London who take the train to Paris for lunch, or a days shopping before coming back in the evening. Before the high speed trains, these people would never consider flying with all the cost and hassle. Even though it might be a little cheaper to fly, on city centre to city centre trains most of the hassle of travelling disappears. Also if you book a month or so ahead on Europes high speed rail system, the fares are very inexpensive. Its the last minute and business travellers who have to travel on certain days who happily pay 4, 5 and 6 times the price. Three years ago I had a first class rail ticket between Munich and Berlin (albeit with a couple of stops) and it cost around €100. Returning to Munich the cheapest budget non stop air ticket would have cost €90 and a full fare last minute economy flight €450! There are plenty of economic arguments about supply resulting in much greater demand. Initial cost is certainly an issue and there is no point starting a high speed rail service unless there would be enough traffic to justify the investment. I fully accept Malaysia is still reeling from the corruption of the last government (and, to be fair, Mahatiir's excesses in the 1990s - e.g. huge F1 race circuit at Subang which F1 has now ditched). But why does the government have to build it? Make it a private enterprise corporation like Hong Kongs extensive MRT system. Last year its profits jumped 64%. The profit - yes, that's profit - was $7 billion US. Of that, only 30% came from its transport operations. The rest from its property portfolio largely as a result of its being granted the land above stations on a long term lease to develop property. Conclusion. High Speed rail would not work on its own. Sweeten the pill for investors, throw in land and property development and let private enterprise build and run the project on a long-term 30 or 50 year lease.

My two cents worth is that you have no chance of living in Bangkok in the area you want and with two houseboy sex workers on anything like the budget you are suggesting. First, Thailand Elite makes absolutely no financial sense if you wish to save cash - assuming you are eligible for the normal over 50 retirement visa. If not, you are stuck with a huge up front payment and maybe a large sum stuck in a bank account whilst you are here. You are also paying the government for 5 years when you only plan to use 2. You are therefore effectively throwing $10,000 down the drain! Second, finding a 2 bedroom apartment at 25,000 in that area is pretty much pie in the sky. Central rents have been rising considerably over the last few years. You will get a 1 bedroom for that but will have to move outwards to get the 2 bedroom. Don't even bother looking at Lumpini. Those apartments are mostly more expensive! You have to move outwards. There are places in the MBK area and a little north nearer Phayathai which are worth exploring for cheaper near Central rents. Depending on your contract, renting long term can sometimes mean paying condo management fees. If so these can add between 2,000 and 3,000 a month. I see another poster estimated utilities and internet at about 2,000-3,000 a month. That's an underestimate for a 2 bedroom place. Assuming you need air con in two bedrooms per night plus some late afternoon, your need to estimate at least 5,000-6,000. Taxis may be cheap in Bangkok but unless you are prepared to go on buses, regular trips using taxis, Skytrain and subway can eat up a couple of thousand a month, especially if there is more than one of you. You will also need to pay for at least local TV in the boys room. I have yet to meet a Thai boy who is not hooked to the Thai soap operas. If you want international news and movie channels, thats even more expensive. And as others have said, two boys on a full time basis who both have to work to clean the apartment and service your regular needs, you will be looking not just at a salary but paying their mobile phone bills, trips to see mama and the buffalo and so on. If they are good looking and could have a chance of a reasonable number of offs at a bar, 15,000 each per month is a minimum. Then there is their food and drink. You will certainly end up having to pay at least some of that. The do you tip them at the end of the two years? Im sure they will expect a large one. End result, with the best will in the world, if you can get all that for less than $3,000 per month my guess is you will be very lucky.

I fear z909 is never going to accumulate enough flights and miles apart perhaps from one from London to Jersey. When these schemes were first introduced (by an American airline, I believe) there was basically two classes of service in that country - coach and first and a very limited number of different fares. They were primarily a means to get customers to keep rebooking the same airline. For some years those who travelled a lot did gain a lots of miles. There were even websites devoted to mileage junkies. Up would pop a special fare for a round trip from Denver taking in Seattle, San Francisco, Colorado Springs, Los Angeles and back to Denver. These last minute cheap specials could generate as much as 10,000 mlles in the space of a day for those mad enough to take them. Now economy is split into something like 15 basic classes. Fly on the cheapest fare? Forget miles. Fly on a mid-price fare and you'll probably get half miles. Only the top payers get the full 100%. Since the difference between the lowest and the top fare can be well over 150%, who in their right mind will cough up so much for so few miles. Unless they are business travellers whose travel is paid by their companies. Now even business flyers are getting miles according to the price they pay - not the fact they are sitting in business class. A few years ago a Bangkok to Singapore business class ticket could be achieved after about 7 return flights. Now think more like 12. Maybe the best way to accumulate miles is to get a credit card attached to a mileage programme and keep using only it. In the US, you can get up to about 100,000 miles just for spend around $2,000 on the card in the first three months. AFIK that is not available elsewhere. The most I have seen is a sign up bonus of about 6,000 miles. Use that card for all your purchases, though, and you could well end up with an economy ticket to somewhere within a year. But watch your chosen airline's profitability. A friend of mine in Oz had accumulated 370,000 miles on Ansett. When it suddenly went bust, he lost the lot.

Im not trying to flame anyone or put anyojne on the spot. Assume it is just my ignorance and I seek clarification. I understand the issue of intermediate stations. The Tokyo/Osaka shinkansen line has several although the fastest just speed through most of the them without stopping. I also appreciate that the last Malaysian government was as rotten as they come and rail projects which require acquisition of large tracts of land are a real corruption target. What I don't understand though is the economics. Fact is KL to Singapore is the busiest international route in the world in terms of number of flights - 30,000 plus per year. 4 million passengers use those flights. Typical flight time with taxing and delays is 65 minutes - pretty near my guess above. The basic budget air return fare between the cities may be cheap at present but there is a wide range of prices and not everyone pays the lowest fare. With the price of oil now 40% more than a year or so ago, they are bound to go up. And certainly further up over the course of time. I see from the internet the plan was to have a high speed rail with a city centre to city centre time of just 90 minutes. That represents a huge time saving over a flight. Add in a premium business class as on European trains, plus property development rights at the stations at each each end and en route (like Hong Kongs MRT), commercial outlets and so on. and surely there must be a way of paying for the vast initial development plus the running costs if the investment is spread over a 25-30 year period. I know I am making huge guesses. But there seems as little reason to fly between KL and Singapore as there is between London and Paris or Berlin and Hamburg or Madrid and Seville. All those European routes are served by lots of high speed trains. https://www.bbc.com/news/business-44000000

Why is it a good thing that KL to Singapore is cancelled but you lament Bangkok to Chiang Mai not happening? KL to SIngapore is just 350 kms. Tokyo to Osaka is 500 kms. Most shinkansen trains between the Japanese cities take between 2 1/2 and 3 hours and there are at least 6 every hour. If I took it, total journey from office/hotel/home to office/hotel/home time would probably be not much more than 4 to 4 1/2 hours. How long does it you take to fly from KL to Singapore? 30 minutes to Sentral, 30 minutes waiting for and taking the train, minimum 60 minutes for queueing, check in, security and immigration, 15 minutes at the gate, 15 minutes to board, 15 minutes to taxi, 40 minutes flight, 15 minutes to taxi, a few minutes to SIngapores very fast immigration, 15 minutes to get your bag, 20 plus minutes in to the city. Total time around 4 hours 15 minutes. A fast train averaging just 150 kms per hour (pretty slow these days) would cut the total journey time by perhaps an hour or more. Each could carry 1,000 passengers or perhaps 6 planeloads. Run 4 per hour during most of the day and you can reduce the number of short haul small jets on the route by between 150 and 200. It would cut carbon emissions considerably. Additionally, with agreement between the countries, more time can be save with immigration formalities carried out on the train as it is on the fast Helsinki/St, Petersburg train, for example, Obviously there would have to be some flights for connecting passengers in both cities. But I fail to see any argument that fails to justify a high speed train on this route. apart from one put forward by Tony Fernandez who is no doubt lobbying extremely hard to prevent it!

It still beats me why Happy Boys closed, unless it was just a lack of customers or perhaps its location outside the Plaza itself. Fun was mentioned earlier. If you liked twinks, it was a place to go where the boys would happily interact and it was not difficult just to have an enjoyable time or a bit more if you wanted to go upstairs. They even had a mezzanine where you could get to know one or more boys more personally. Drinks were extremely reasonable. I would frequently visit and take friends and we would not only buy lots of drinks we would tip quite handsomely because we were having such a good time . And then all of a sudden it was no longer there. Sad.

I live in an area which has around ten standard (non-sex non-happy ending) massage places all within about a 100 yard radius. It also has three hotels. I pass by probably around 4 or 5 times a week. Rarely do I see even foot massages being given. The masseurs and masseuses are sitting outside chatting and shouting "Massageee". I suppose there must be massages being given at some times of the day, but I cannot imagine they result in much more than a pretty basic income.

Quick question. Are the items on sale at Changi really cheaper than in town? I realise that heavy tax items like booze, cigarettes and perfumes normally are (or should be), but then doesnt it depend where you shop in town? When I pass through airports in Asia, most of the time I find prices are actually more expensive than in-town. And the reason is the huge retail space rental charges and sales commissions the airports impose. An example is perfume/colognes etc. Go to the high volume in-town discount perfume stores like Sasa and you can obtain most of the items cheaper than at the airport. At one of the regions main cities I can still buy brand name champagne in-town quite a bit cheaper than at its major airport! Aesthetically, though, I do find Changi a remarkable airport. I would rather spend a delay there than at any other airport I have been through!