PeterRS

Agree with z909. Nature Boys is all but dead. You can try walking past and peeking inside. Maybe as the high season is here they could have an extra boy or two. In the same area Super A is pretty sleazy. Not at first look. Its just a narrow bar with dirty sofas on one side and a bunch of seemingly disinterested boys spending their time looking at their phones on the other. 2 or 3 may be making an attempt to shuffle on the stage. But buy them a drink and let your hands wander. Plenty to feel and then see.

Philip lives locally in Bangkok. Another book of interest more to those who have visited Bangkok and think they know it well is Bangkok Found by Alex Kerr. They will soon find they don't know it nearly as well as they thought! Kerr also lives locally and is an accomplished writer. His Lost Japan won that country's highest literary award. He remains the only foreigner ever to have won it. He wanders through many topics that give Thailand its unique 'Thainess'. He also has an interesting view on the sex scene in the city.

Im sure devising polls is far from easy as there will always be someone or some group whose tastes are not catered for. But I wonder why less than 50 have responded to all three of z909s polls. Is this average for gaythailand polls? I ask only because it seems tiny percentage of both membership and readership. So can they be anywhere near an accurate reflection of the views of the forum as a whole? Or just the smallish group of regular posters whose trip reports we all enjoy?

Excellent novel. Equally absorbing is Graham Greene's The Quiet American written almost 30 years earlier. It portrays Vietnam at the end of the dreadful French rule and the start of American influence in the country. Someone mentioned Cocktail Boys about gogo bar life in Thailand. There is little in the story lines we have not read somewhere before. I found it quite boring and did not enjoy it. For anyone interested in Cambodia, Sideshow: Kissinger, Nixon and the Destruction of Cambodia by William Shawcross is utterly absorbing. Shawcross was one of the first journalists to visit the country after the Khmer Rouge were toppled by the Vietnamese. For a personal view on the Khmer Rouge years, The Gate by Francois Bizot is quite short but will have you perplexed and also in tears. https://www.theguardian.com/books/2003/jan/12/biography.highereducation

Too true. Sadly!

Unless my memory is incorrect (perfectly possible) I thought Barbiery only opened in around 1985/6. It was located on the first floor of a building directly opposite Soi Twilight. The original Twilight bar on Soi Twilight was definitely open in 1982. It changed its name and its layout around 2000 to Hotmale. Before then it was much more of a sleaze bar run by two ageing mamasans. Nudity was very common every night. I dont remember any other bar in Soi Twilight but perhaps that is just because Twilight was my regular. For a time Silom Soi 4 had the smaller Apollo Bar on the right near the end with a catwalk down the middle. Like Twilight, the boys danced nude from around 10.00. Apart from the gay Rome dance club where Jupiter 2018 is now located, I do not remember any other bar on that soi. Telephone did not arrive until around 1990. In Patpong 2 there was a host bar above where Screwboy now is but I cannot remember its name.There was also a host bar close to the entrance of the Ambassador Hotel on Sukhumvit. I am sure there were quite a few more. Others have written about the Stockholm sleaze bar near the bottom of now up market Luangsan. InterMustache House was also open around that time but it seemed to cater more for Thais and it was quite a trek to get out fo Sukhumvit Soi 10. I tipped 500 baht in the early 1980s. Cannot recall the off fee. In the 1980s and 1990s until the Asian Economic Crisis the baht was fixed to the US dollar at $1 = 25 baht. I remember the tip remained constant through the early 1990s. Do not recall the off fees. Traffic in the early 1980s was bad. No Skytrain. No subway. No elevated highways. Just buses and tuktuks. Getting a hotel car to to Don Muang for a flight out you had to allow at least 2 hours. Many arriving travellers booked the THAI minibuses instead of buses or a limousine. These seated around 12 and would take you right to your hotel. The problem was that they stopped at the hotels for all the passengers. If you lived in the Surwong, Rose or Montien Hotels, you might have to make 5 or 6 other stops first. Saunas arrived around 1984/5. Volt, Obelisks and later Heaven and a few others attracted a nice young crowd. Then Babylon opened at its old location at the top of Soi Nanta on the corner of Sathorn Soi 1 around 1990. Chakran off Soi Aree arrived later in the 1990s and was initially a great place for farang to meet Thais. Now it seems to be only for Thais and other Asians. I think it was also the first one to have nude nights when they partitioned off the large jacuzzi pool, the showers and the large dark steam room where towels would not be allowed. Do not remember when gay massage spas opened, probably around the same time as Babylon. V Club in its own building on Soi Aree was a favourite because it often had some models as masseurs. Albury arrived in 1996 in its first location on Suk Soi 13. In Babylon there was a room with a largish bed just off the coffee shop where I had several lovely massages with Khun Gung. Interestingly, Babylon had live entertainment with a guitarist or pianist/singer at the week-ends. Seems it took a leaf out of the old Continental Baths in New York where Bette Midler, Barry Manilow and Gloria Gaynor were on the roster of regular entertainers. I am sure there were more around before then. For a year or two there were two in Korea Town on Sukhumvit between around Suk 8 and 10.

This type of dancing was quite common in My Way decades ago - and boys only wore short pants

I have had drinks and dinner at Vertigo and at the top of a couple of other tall buildings in Bangkok. I simply cannot see their attraction. Bangkok is dead flat. There is virtually nothing of interest to see except lots of lights. Go to the top of Taipei 101, the bar at the top of the Ritz Carlton in Hong Kong or other tall buildings in Tokyo, San Francisco, Rio and many other major cities and you get a fantastic perspective of the city below and the hills on which they are built or which surround them. It is the topography which makes them interesting. Bangkok from above is visually just boring and not worth the price to get up high.

SGT/SGNetwork seems to have disappeared again.

Totally agree with z909. Thailand is mercifully free of graffiti perhaps because the penalties are heavy.

I guess you havent been to shows in some of the bars recently. The Sinatra version of My Way dates back to 1969. John Williams score for the first Star Wars movie in 1977 is only slightly more recent. Yet it is still used as a prelude to some of the shows. Golden oldies perhaps for an audience of not quite so golden oldies?

Ever since SGT was restored on Thailand servers, I bookmarked this URL to gain access - http://sawatdee-gay-thailand.com/forum/ It always worked until a couple of days ago. Now I receive an on screen message - service unavailable. The new URL seems to be https://sawatdeenetwork,com/v4/activity.php

It has been the same with me. Never once negotiated a tip in many years of visiting Thailand. Only once had a boy who wanted more but it was just a try on. But I do agree it spoils the encounter. Re Bangkok I read on another forum here that the special model boys in Moonlight expect between 5,000 and 8,000 baht, that is if they actually agree to go with you. Seems they have the right to choose. Also from what the Chinese ladies are offering in Jupiter 2018 seems the catwalk models there probably expect more than the basic minimum.

I can understand Beijing’s desire to bring itself closer to Taiwan. But a tunnel? And one of that length? With so many non-stop flights between the mainland and Taiwan and so many Taiwanese companies employing tens of millions of mainland Chinese in their factories and businesses, I fail to see any logic. Besides, I trust the engineers have factored in the many earthquakes that hit Taiwan fairly regularly. Some like the one in 1999 are devastating. Taiwan expects a magnitude 7 earthquake or above every 4 or 5 years.

I suggest part of the reason is pure laziness! I immediately add that I only speak a little Thai and constantly kick myself for not learning more. Tones are common in English, it’s just that we use them for emphasis. I have friends who speak very good Thaii - not quite fluent but very close to it. I have an American friend who lives in Shanghai. He learned Mandarin Chinese at a langauge school in Taiwan and now also speaks Shanhainese and Canrtonese fluently. Lest you think they are the same, Mandarin has 4 basic tones whereas Cantonese has 9. Say the word “gow” in Cantonese and amongst others it can mean nine, a dog and a vital part of the male anatomy depending on the tone level you use. I understand British civil servants in Hong Kong pre the handover in 1997 had to take Cantonese courses and speak up to a reasonably decent level!

Judging from past responses, there are a lot of people who will advise you to rent and not to buy. Like ceejay I bought and have made both an exchange gain and will have made a very handsome profit whenever I eventually sell - barring some natural disaster or a property crash. Given the growing number of Chinese buying now in Bangkok I think the latter is unlikely. But it has happened before and could obviously happen again. If ever there is another crash like 1997, selling at the price you want is likely to take a lot of time. I certainly would advise renting for your next few visits, if only to give you time to look more closely at the many different areas of the city. Most would prefer to live in the centre particularly if they plan on regular visits to the gay venues. But obviously that will involve a considerably greater initial financial outlay.

This is from the well-known Siam Legal website - https://www.siam-legal.com/realestate/thailand-property-financing.php. When I purchased, it had all to be in cash. It does seem that there has been a degree of loosing of the regulations since then. Most of the financial institutions in Thailand provide loans for real estate purchases to local Thais and Thai companies based on similar criteria we are used to in our home country.\ However foreigners generally cannot mortgage properties in Thailand. In fact, mortgage lending by local banks to foreigners was virtually unheard of in Thailand. Nonetheless, in recent years we have seen a slight shift in policies to allow foreigners limited access to financing. This was instigated, in part, by the Thai government's eagerness to promote tourism and to encourage economic growth in Thailand

I really wonder if you can get a condo in central Bangkok at your suggested range of US$40-50K. Looking at a couple of property websites, a one-bedroom 25.25 sq m unit at On Nut is selling for 3.44 million baht - $104K. New 30 sq meter apartments much further out on the Skytrain lines are selling for $70K up. 33 sq m on Ruamrudee (off Wireless Road and close to Sukhumvit) has an asking price of 4.5 million baht - $136K. Further out on Ratchadapisek the asking price for 52 sq m is 2.7 million baht - $81K. Older 50 sq meter units in the centre are more likely to go for around 65,000 baht per sq m minimum = almost $100K. Obviously there will be little tucked away sois where you might find even older units closer to your range, but I think it will be difficult. Sorry I have no idea how to go about renting. I do know that in my condo building there are now quite a lot of empty units because renting for many months seems of less interest to owners. It's either airbnb type short term one or two week rentals or a couple of years. As for mortgages, until few years ago foreigners were not permitted to purchase in Thailand using a mortgage. There has been a slight easing of the rules but only by a few financial institutions and I understand the terms and conditions are stricter than in western countries.

As do I. Its just that in this case your opinion IMHO is wrong - DEAD wrong!

Suggestions Sofitel So is a lovely hotel but it is not right at the gay area. Great for Babylon but you still have to walk some way to get to Silom and even longer to get to Suriwong. There is an MRT station almost on the doorstep to get you to Silom. But by the time you get down to the platform, get your tickets, wait for a train and then get back up to street level, you will have lost close to 15 minutes, You are better walking. The Sukhothai is a gorgeous hotel, very unlike the chain hotels and with probably the best pool and sun deck in the city. Very popular with richer gay guys from around Asia. Also easy to reach Babylon. But it too means a good walk to Silom and more to Suriwong. Also beware. Its fabulous buffet breakfast costs around US$36. With 6 of you, that's over $210 daily for starters! Only consider if you get a rate that includes breakfast. Your idea of Le Meridien is ideal. Almost right bang in the middle of the action and it should come in around $150. I have stayed several times at The Crowne Plaza. Its an excellent 4 star choice. But in late April even agoda is charging around $170 a night. I cannot think of any 5 star hotel near that area which comes close to $100 a night. If you are prepared to look at one Skytrain stop away or a short 50 baht taxi ride, look at the Courtyard by Marriott off Rajadamri. Its also an excellent 4 star hotel and comes in at just under $100. As for nannies, ask each hotel. I am sure they will know of reputable and reliable nanny service. Flights to Krabi? BKK is easier to get to from the Silom/Suriwong area. If cash is not the primary concern, Bangkok Airways at BKK has its own lounge for all passengers regardless of cabin class. Its simple but provides seating and a calmer area to wait for the flight. The one concern you should have is traffic. If you are departing Bangkok in the morning, no problem with either airport because rush hour traffic is coming in to the city. On the return, the problem at DMK is mostly taxis. The queues tend to be long and a 30 minute wait is pretty usual. If you are flush, order a car from your hotel.

I think your analysis is spot on in most respects. Bangkok is certainly changing and the rate of change seems to be speeding up. As you mentioned earlier, the huge influx of Chinese tourists is helping create this change. But I think it started years earlier. Even as the western tourists continued to come and patronise the gogo bars and other sex venues, younger and richer Singaporeans. Hong Kong guys, Japanese, Taiwanese started to come in greater numbers. They come in small groups of 2 or 4. Many come for long weekends, stay in more upmarket hotels, spend in the malls during the day and go out in the evening. Anyone thinking these tourists who certainly have sex on the agenda but not at the top do not stay in the upmarket hotels should go to the 5 star Sukhothai Hotel on Sathorn during the main holidays like Christmas and Chinese holidays. Check the pool. It is like gay central. So many gay guys. Many in great shape. But these guys mostly dont off boys from the bars. They get sex in the saunas and massage spas. If they visit a gogo bar, its just for a drink and maybe a show. For those who complain about tips becoming too high, a dose of reality is needed. In the early 1980s the average short time tip was 500 baht. That equalled $20. $20 today is 660 baht. So a short time tip has increased by not much more than 100%. How many other services in Thailand over the last 35 years have increased by less than 100%?

Fantastic analyses. Thanks guys. I could never have worked all that out (and I happen to love Rosenkranz and Guildenstern are Dead)! Id like to add one point. I am against barebacking even with PREP. However the Avert statistic is that the % of msm in Bangkok is about 28.6%. In Thailand as a whole it is 9.15%. It does not analyse other cities. My guess is that Pattaya is likely to be around the same as Bangkok with Chiang Mai not far behind. Cannot guess about other cities.

This reminds me of a dreadful shooting in the USA about 25 years ago. A 17 year old Japanese exchange student only two months in the USA was invited to a Halloween party along with the son of the family he was staying with. The boys could not find the correct house. So they approached a house with the intention of asking directions. They rang the bell. There was no answer. They turned around to return to their car when the owner of the house opened the front door holding a rifle. He shouted Freeze. The Japanese boy did not know what he meant and started to move towards him. He was shot dead in cold blood. The killer's defence was that in the near darkness he was scared for his life and fired in self defence. The jury was out for about 3 hours before returning a not guilty verdict. Japan was shocked by both the killing an the acquittal.

And I feel sorry for those who make sweeping assertions based on little evidence.

To protect yourself against a chronic illness that would require medication for life, sorry "pretty good" is not good enough for me. I agree that medical advances are leading to all sorts of new medications to treat a large number of illnesses. But there is absolutely no guarantee that a vaccine against HIV or more effective medications will come on the market in the near or medium term future. Then there is this. Fact - HIV is now one of the fastest mutating viruses. There have been clinical trials of possible vaccines in Thailand and elsewhere. None has been effective. One reason is the fast mutation rate. Who knows when AZT will cease to be effective against new strains? With the mutations who knowns for how much longer PREP will be effective in approx 92% of cases?