PeterRS

I cannot speak about today but it used to be the case that most boys working the bars would do both. I wrote on another thread about one I had met in the old Solid bar who spoke good English, was intelligent and looked like 25. When I asked if he was bottom he said both. I took him home and we had a long fascinating chat over drinks before getting down to the business of the evening. Turned out he was 32, straight, married with two kids - and it was virtually the best sex with any bottom I had had in a great many years in Bangkok.

When I first flew into Singapore, Changi did not exist. Aircraft landed at Paya Lebar which is now a military airport I believe. Obviously there was not much vehicular or indeed aircraft traffic at the east end of the island because whenever an aircraft had to taxi, part of a roadway had to be temporary closed. Even Concorde regularly landed there when it was operated jointly by British Airways and Singapore Airlines. Changi was conceived in the mid-1970s. It required a massive new landfill for it sits totally on reclaimed land and the construction of new access roads in addition to the airports first terminal. Lee Kwan Yew had a vision of Singapore as a major air hub at a time when the number of tourists flying to Asia was infinitesimal compared to today. The only guaranteed passengers would be those on the kangaroo route to and from Australia and those on flights already using Paya Lebar. I do not think any other Asian leader at the time would have had either the vision, determination and ability to obtain finance for what many must have viewed as a hugely risky project. Creating the worlds best airport serviced by arguably the worlds best airline remains an extraordinary achievement.

This may have been asked before, but Macaroni used to be the nick here for Shameless Mack. Would Macaroni21 consider enlightening us if he is the very same and much-missed Shameless Mack? Even the photo seems to be the same as before. Re Candle-T I seem to remember reading probably some years ago that this was a legit massage place and there were no extras. If there are HEs, 500 baht as the tip seems on the low side compared to other massage spas. Anyone else able to confirm their HE policy? Fascinating. Thanks for that info, Pong.

That ketamine was used was already widely known through one of the excellent Australian TV documentaries which focussed on a speech given by Craig Challen who accompanied his fellow Australian, the anaesthetist Dr. Richard Harris. I don't think many are aware how much is owed to Dr. Harris. He spent a great deal of time in the cave with the boys, getting to know them and getting them to trust him. As Challen stated, Harris did a fantastic job. The boys had no hesitation in literally putting their lives in his hands as he administered the ketamine to put them to sleep. It was also Dr. Harris who decided on the use of ketamine rather than other more obvious tranquillisers. Ketamine is more regularly used in veterinary surgery and had rarely before been administered to young children, especially children in a very weakened state.. Prior to making that decision, Harris contacted anaesthetist colleagues around the world for their advice. Since the effect of the dosage would wear off some time before the boys were out of the cave, Dr. Harris also had to train some of the other divers on how to assess the condition of each boy and then administer a top-up dosage. Only the Lord knows what would have happened if that top-up dosage had been too little or too much. When we return to this wonderfully uplifting story of great courage, we should never forget that even as the first boy was being evacuated from the cave, not one member of the large rescue team believed all 13 would emerge alive. The rescue was so complex it was assumed that some of the boys would certainly die. One of the crucial American team said the casualties could be as high as 60% - as many as 8 of the group. This information was relayed to the Prime Minister before the go-ahead was given for the rescue to start. Magnificent news (although it took place some weeks ago) that both Harris and Challen were awarded the honour of being the 2019 Australians of the Year.

Rather strange that Solid seems to have been a favourite - it was for me - when there were rarely many customers there. I liked the line up of boys. One especially I took off a couple of times and he was s stunner. On my next visit he had disappeared. The farang co-manager told me he had discovered drugs and so he had to go. I always wondered why it never really became popular. It can't have been the location since Twilight and other bars were close by. Perhaps because most of the guys were twinks. Yet I once chatted to a very handsome guy who spoke very good English. I would have put him as about 25 - a little older than the average of the boys there. When I took him off, it turned out he was 32, married and had two kids. It was some of the best sex I ever had from an off!

I think the small watering hole was run by one of the mamasans from the old Solid Bar which ran for a few years on the corner close to the Mango Tree restaurant. For a while one of his regular boys helped out at that bar but whenever I walked past or stopped by for a drink, there was rarely another customer. How he kept going, goodness only knows! Solid had its attractions and was a fun place for a drink and an off for those who enjoyed it. But it was not an all-out gogo bar and its clientele was small. Another different kind of bar which some may recall was X-treme Bar on the second floor of one of the Twilight shops (was it where Bonny Massage eventually materialized?) X-treme had the usual bunch of gogo boys but it’s main entertainment was provided by real young dancers who gave a great 30 minute show twice a night. No nudity but these boys were cracking dancers, the choreography was good, often titillating and the boys themselves always great fun. It was run by an unusual figure who had either been a member of the clergy of the Church of England or whose work was related to the Church. Always friendly, his young long-haired student boyfriend would sometimes come into the bar. He was a real stunner! With rarely more than a few customers, X-treme can’t gave lasted more than a couple of years. The German across the Soi then employed them for a while before he dropped them and a few ended up in Roxy in Soi 4. The reverend (as many called the X-treme owner) ended up as a consultant at Roxy. I believe he then returned to England. I always wondered if his boyfriend joined him or he stayed behind. If the latter, some farang must have become extremely lucky!

I tend to agree with kokopelli. The days of Thai boys filling the Bangkok gogo bars will soon be over. IMHO a much better economy in the countryside together with a rapidly changing society will mean an even greater dependence on boys from neighboring countries - legally or not. As we know this process is already well under way. Just changing times.

Sorry duplicate post

I doubt if those of us who visited Bangkok all those years ago are stuck moping around with our memories. We are all a lot older now. Some have settled down with long term partners. We have all changed and our interests re nighttime entertainment have changed/evolved over time. We may also have discovered other countries. The scene may not be as vibrant as Thailand but its there in many countries. I for one take life as it comes. I change. The entertainment scene changes. There is still a great deal to enjoy. Theres no doubt that the rise of the apps is one reason for recent changes in the nighttime scene. But internet hook-ups did not start just with smart phones, grindr, hornet and their like. In the second half of the 1990s there were several internet sites where Thai guys put up the same sort of information found on the apps now. There were also gay dating sites like gay.com. I met many guys from those sites. Chatting took a lot longer but the hook ups when they finally happened seemed at least to me a bit more meaningful. I reckon the decline in the bar and nighttime scene actually started around 2000. Blame the first Thaksin government's Social Order campaigns. I think for the first time the existence of male gogo bars, saunas and massage spas was brought home to the average man in the street, especially in the countryside. This was the first time government Ministers were pictured holding up used condoms and hints given about gay farangs coming for sex tourism. Of course Thais had been enjoying their own much larger underground sex scene for many decades. Farangs filling girlie bars were different. That was OK. But in a very conservative society the thought of their country having a reputation as a sex haven for gays was not welcome. The countrywide popularity ratings of that homophobic Minister rocketed. Interesting I think that in the 80s and 90s Thais always seemed to outnumber farang in the bars. Yet from 2000 the Thais began to disappear. Where they went to and why I never thought about till now. Also that bars rarely seemed to bother changing their business model. Owners failed to realise that the general farang customer was ageing and not being replaced by enough younger ones. The only one making radical change was Twilight which completely changed and became Hotmale. Probably the most popular bar Barbiery moved from its ideal Suriwong location opposite Soi Twilight into larger premises close to Mango Tree. The atmosphere was dead, the mostly twink boys became more manly and customers stayed away in their droves. It quickly died. Even though the gay world has got much bigger over the decades there is still nowhere like Thailand. Long may it continue . And long may we continue to cherish memories of so many wonderful times whenever we experienced them.

I never read The Men of Thailand but I have read lots of posts on various chat rooms about what Bangkok was like in the 'old days'. I also have my own memories of the era. Difficult to know how much views have changed as people have grown older and the spectacles pinker. One thing does seem certain though. The gay bar scene was much more active 20 even 25 years ago. My memories differ a bit from BiggusDikkus. The original Twilight bar was quite dark on entry. It was lorded over by a couple of older trans women who fluttered around behind the long bar. There was also a small guy who always seemed to be rushing around adding extra seats on the large floor area at the weekends when the bar was packed more with Thais than farang or pushing boys to get dressed when they were offed. These are only a small part of my memory. The lasting one is of a large number of amazing boys. Until about 9 pm they would do s rather bored soft shoe shuffle 4 at a time on the tiny stage behind the bar. But one of the mamasans would then bark an order when the short pants would then come off and the boys would dance naked. Many were a bit shy and covered their assets. After each group of four came offstage still naked they would walk round through the customers and stand around one of the mirrored pillars. The best place to sit was at the left side of the bar. Once the order had been given, the 4 boys due onstage would sit crouched behind the bar desperately trying to get themselves even slightly erect. They didn't care that a group of Thais and farang were sitting watching them. Later in the evening there would often be a show (maybe only at weekends - not sure). Two pairs of boys would start on the stage, With a degree of athleticism they would then clamber over on to the top of the bar. Theyd then manoeuvre themselves slowly along the bar and back again. Im sorry BiggusDikkus did not enjoy Twilight then. I loved it same as I loved the better run and more fun Barbiery across the road. Also the various bars like Super Lek and the original Super A near where Mango Tree is located. They were in full swing then. There was a lot of fun there, just as there was in the still young Soi 4 and in the small DJ Station soi. Babylon had opened and offered a myriad of delights . The only problem was having to queue to get in at the weekends. Several other saunas had sprung up along with quite a few gay massage spas. The choice was quite amazing. I agree. I also consider myself so lucky to have enjoyed that era. Bangkok was heaven.

For a beach vacation the island of Phu Quoc seems to be worth exploring according to a poster on another site. Seems Bangkok Airways also flies there daily. Its very close to Sihanoukville so I guess there may also be a ferry linking them. Maybe an idea to combine the two. http://gaybuttonthai.com/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=9574

I can understand why Thailand hits the top spot. Like ggobkk I am surprised that the numbers in Hong Kong are so high. It doesnt seem like a key gay destination since the number of gay clubs, saunas etc, is not particularly high. Would have been nice to see the figures for Taipei/Taiwan. With a bill re same sex partnerships becoming law by the early summer, quite a thriving local gay scene and big increases in gay tourists, it is a more likely gay destination than Japan. I wonder how many tourists fly in just for the annual Gay Pride week-end when somewhere around 140,000 join the March. Perhaps they just don[t spend as much as n Hong Kong, although how anyone knows how to determine who spends what baffles me. Some photos of the last Gay Pride weekend from the gaybutton site http://gaybuttonthai.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=9355

Once that Indonesia poll is over, I wonder if the dreadful homophobic rhetoric of recent years will cease. When the countrys Defence Minister likens gays to nuclear war thats when I decide never to return.

Ive been twice to Brazil. I got mugged in Rio but I was probably as much to blame as the mugger. It was on a Sunday morning and I was just walking around the very empty centre of the city. All the churches seemed packed to overflowing, fortunately for me. I had just passed one when I heard the sound of someone running towards me from behind. Before I could even turn around a hand was clasped over my face and I felt something pulling on my neck. That was where Id been stupid. All the guidebooks say when you go out take off anything that might be of value including watches and rings. For a couple of decades I had worn a gold chain around my neck. Never removed it even in a sauna because the clasp was tough and difficult to open and close. It was just became part of me. So when I put on a T shirt and shorts I did not even think about it. In any case it was covered completely by the T shirt. The T shirt was thin. I did not realise that part of the chain would glisten under it in the bright sunshine. A guy had noticed it and was trying to rip it off me. As best I could I shouted for help. Some guys who were standing at the doors of the church heard me and came running over. As they got close the thief ran off. As he did so, the chain trickled down my back on to the ground! With only a few words of Portuguese I thanked the guys for their help. It then amazed me that a cop car arrived within only about 30 seconds. With only a sore neck, a ripped T shirt, a slightly damaged neck chain and a loss of dignity i walked off and soon got a cab back to my hotel. The city itself is amazing and well worth a visit. Just leave ALL your valuables in your bnb or hotel safe.

I think his name was John Booth. At one time he had been an English teacher so there was no reason for him to write as he did other than he was having a bit of fun. Sadly he died in very unfortunate circumstances. He had been treated for some form of cancer and thought he was cancer free. Then it returned but he had no cash left for a return to hospital. I seem to recall friends in Bangkok looked after him as best they could and he died in their home.

Incorrect. In the main Priority Lane (whatever the actual title but I believe it is "Premium" or "Priority") the same entrance caters for first and biz class passengers with passes from their airlines, over 70s, APEC Business Travel Card holders, diplomats, air crew, Privilege Pass holders (which I believe means the Thai Elite programme members).

Some airlines have withdrawn their priority service for business class passengers. This is because airlines have to pay for each passenger using those priority entrances. Check directly with a Vietnam Airlines office otherwise you will probably get the runaround with different people saying different things. Seems there is definitely a Fast Track Service within the East Immigration Hall specifically for THAI passengers. This photo was posted on the ThaiViss forum some months ago - As for the names given to the Fast Track lanes, I understood = and asI have seen for some time now - that the other dedicated channel between the east and west Immigration areas uses Priority Lane for both outgoing and incoming flights. But irrespective of name, it will either be Priority, Premium or Fast Track. As with the above question, why don't you just call THAI Airlines and ask them to find out for you. No guarantee, of course, that someone with actual knowledge will answer you. But the ground staff at the entrance to the aircraft as you disembark will.

There seem to be dozens of maps of the arrivals area but none is accurate. Seems to me the Fast Track is closer to D5, so let's just say it is between D4 and D5. Perhaps the easiest way to recognise it is that it is - - between the two main Immigration Halls - very close to the visa on arrival channel, so there will be lots of passengers filling forms close to the Fast Track entrance. However, from what other posters have been writing, it seems there may be another THAI only Fast Track. I have never heard of this or used it. Since THAI issue e-boarding passes, if you do not have a physical ticket perhaps best just to use the general dedicated Fast Track lane. I have never once had to show any physical ticket there - only the Fast Track coupon. Admittedly these are issued by each airline and that is obvious on the coupon. In dozens of arrivals (including on THAI) these have always been handed out on the aircraft and never by the ground staff on arrival. Unless the whole system has changed since my last arrival a couple of weeks ago, there is no notice at the entrance advising that it is not for use by TG passengers. Besides, TG flights do sometimes arrive at the west gates. It's a much longer walk to the East Immigration lines, and I cannot believe THAI passengers have to go all that way for a dedicated THAI biz class channel. But I stand to be corrected on that.

True, but there are dozens of departing flights in the evenings and many passengers with luggage have to take taxis. These are the taxis which then go into the queue to take arrival passengers into the city. Frankly I have never seen any difference in the queues on a Friday night compared to others. But there are usually queues. As others suggest, forget the costly fast track arrivals service. As a biz class passenger the only benefit it will give you is the buggy from the airport gate to Immigration. But once through, you will spend longer waiting for your bag. So it's a waste. Just remember that the Fast Track Priority Immigration has its own special entrance close to the main west side Immigration area.

You are assuming that your flight will arrive on time. Having frequently arrived close to that hour, I would not bet the bank on it. Lots of arriving aircraft and often delays prior to landing. That usually uses the East gates but I have frequently seen Thai aircraft at the west, especially if it is an A380. There is no Thai dedicated terminal. About 3 gates are pretty near Immigration but Thai does not use them. If you really want to get to Screwboys, book the fast track service. If you happen to be over 70 or are travelling biz class, you will have automatic access to fast track with no need to pay. But that will not help much with the transfer to the city. With lots of arrivals the chances are you will have to wait at least 20 minutes for a taxi.

Last point on the A340. List price when it was withdrawn from the market was approximately $250 million. According to the website Aircraft Value News, there are so many now out of service that the value of the first model - the A340-300 - is virtually only for scrap. THAI purchased the -500 and -600 models. But according to the same website, the value of an A350-500 has plummeted by 90% over the last 10 years. http://www.aircraftvaluenews.com/aircraft/airbus-a340-300/

According to various websites, THAI purchased 10 A340s. All were retired between 2012 and 2015. One was sold to the Royal Tai Air Force. The other nine remain stored somewhere! Therefore unsold! Currently it still operates 8 747-400s with an average age of 19.4 years, Whilst that is not 'old' for a 747, their maintenance costs must be higher than they used to be. Anyone who has been on one of those planes will know that they are also in desperate need of refurbishment. Like many of the older 777s, business class has the recliner seats that most airlines got rid of some years ago. If you cannot offer flat beds, you will inevitably suffer lower passenger numbers, especially when THAI's prices are generally higher.

Corruption must inevitably have been involved in the purchase of the A340s, as with many other types of aircraft. THAI operated part of that fleet on the non-stop routes to LAX and JFK which THAI eventually suspended. Even so, lots of other airlines purchased it because at the time of its introduction ETOPS was extremely limited for twin engine planes. According to wikipedia 377 models of the aircraft were sold and 60 remain in service. THAI needed a minimum of 4 aircraft on each route because only 4-engine aircraft were authorised to operate most long haul routes, especially over oceans. That they were unprofitable for THAI was only partly a result of fuel burn. THAI simply could not sell enough seats - and it had designated a lot of these seats as business class at premium price. It was unfortunate for Airbus and the airlines that the Extended Range Operation Procedures were changed not many years after its introduction. From that time the ETOPS range for twin engine jets was extended from 1 hour up to 3 hours thus rendering the twin engine A330s, 777s and later the 787s and A350s not just possible but quite a bit cheaper to operate for ultra long hails. By the time THAI wanted to sell its A340s, the price of second hand models had plummeted.

Flights had to be diverted but only because Pakistan closed its airspace. India did not. For a few hours it closed some airports in the far north of the country. This might have had an effect on overflights - in case they got into difficulties and had to land. But Mumbai was never closed. As has been pointed out, it's perfectly easy to overfly China. Routes obviously have to be negotiated and flight times arranged to coordinate with those of airlines flying to Europe out of China, Hong Kong, Japan, Korea and even Taiwan. In an emergency situation, I am certain this can be done quickly. But is is certainly not free, as one poster has suggested. Airspace over any country belongs to that country. Fly over it and you have to pay for the right. 4 years ago each aircraft overflying the USA had to pay a fee of US$56.86 per 100 miles. Also, for airlines flying from airports east of Bangkok, overflying China is a considerably shorter route to Europe. As for aircraft not having enough fuel, that is extremely unlikely. All long-distance airliners have plenty of room in their tanks for a couple of hours extra flying time. To my mind, THAI was remembering the situation of the MAS 777 when the captain chose to overfly Ukraine when other airlines all took a slightly more northerly route. That resulted in a missile bringing down the 777. With the Indian and Pakistani air force having dogfights in the region, there was a very real reason for avoiding the Kashmir region.

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