What do you think?

[Guest JamesBarnes]

I would be most interested to know what you think

 

http://www.out-in-thailand.com/very-little-pride-in-thailand/

 

Best wishes,

[Gaybutton]

Incredibly enough, for once I agree with your article.

[khaolakguy]

I think that your use of the word "dilettante" to describe the organisers of the successful Phuket Pride events is an inappropriate, inaccurate and insulting use of language.

 

I couldn't credit the article as journalism after I read that.

 

dilettante

ˌdɪlɪˈtanteɪ,-ti/

noun

noun: dilettante; plural noun: dilettantes; plural noun: dilettanti

a person who cultivates an area of interest, such as the arts, without real commitment or knowledge.

[Guest JamesBarnes]

Dear khaolakguy,

 

This was the sense in which I used the term:

 

Word Origin and History for dilettantes

 

dilettante

n.

1733, borrowing of Italian dilettante "lover of music or painting," from dilettare "to delight," from Latin delectare (see delight (n.)). Originally without negative connotation, "devoted amateur," the pejorative sense emerged late 18c. by contrast with professional.

 

 

That is to say that the guys who organise Phuket Pride are unpaid, devoted amateurs.

 

Best wishes,

[khaolakguy]

Yes, but as your quote shows, it was used in a positive sense only in the early 18th century but since the latter part of that century, up to the current day, it has developed a negative and pejorative meaning.

 

Just how old do you think your readers are!

[Guest JamesBarnes]

Very funny!

 

Both senses have legitimate use!!!

[Guest JamesBarnes]

More importantly is the point of :http://www.out-in-thailand.com/very-little-pride-in-thailand/

[Guest JamesBarnes]

Incredibly enough, for once I agree with your article.

 

How can we work together to remedy the situation?

 

Best wishes,

[NIrishGuy]

^ Just print your next article, I'm fairly sure that will reset the status quo :-)

[bkkguy]

More importantly is the point of :http://www.out-in-thailand.com/very-little-pride-in-thailand/

 

and what exactly is your point? what is this "pride" that Thailand "deserves" that you vow to support? because all I see in your article, and in Bangkok/Phuket/Pattaya pride in the last 10 years is an imported superficial commercialisation of "pride" driven by vested interests rather than grassroots support for gay rights and gay issues

 

there is no denying that the Bangkok/Phuket/Pattaya pride groups have raised significant funds for AIDS and other charities, and have garnered much international and local publicity for the "events" but how many local gays do you seriously think find a parade of scantily clad barboys from venues they would never think of visiting are relevant to gaining acceptance of gay lifestyles in Thailand? how many local gays do you think seriously believe it was a "national and international tragedy" when Bangkok Pride was scrapped, Pattaya Pride was re-organised, etc?

 

Bangkok is the "gay capital of Asia" and had a "fabulous gay Pride every year"? take the tourist oriented gay venues, the sexpats and sex tourists out of the equation and what do you really have? if you want to know about the "pride that a country deserves" perhaps you would be better served looking at Taipei and how its gay pride events and gay rights movement has evolved over the past few years, look at the cultural similarities and differences between the two countries and then perhaps you could try a real article asking "why is there so very little Pride in Thailand" from a more considered perspective rather than this shallow attempt!

 

bkkguy

[Gaybutton]

How can we work together to remedy the situation?

 

I've been honest in my opinions about what you present in you magazine.  If you write something I can agree with, I'll say so just as I've done when I disagree.

 

However, when the very rare occasions occur when I can post that I agree with you, I feel like the man whose wife has just died.  The funeral director asked if he would consent to ride to the cemetery in the same car with his mother-in-law.  The man said, "I'll do it, but it will ruin my whole day."

[Guest Prakanong]

but how many local gays do you seriously think find a parade of scantily clad barboys from venues they would never think of visiting are relevant to gaining acceptance of gay lifestyles in Thailand? how many local gays do you think seriously believe it was a "national and international tragedy" when Bangkok Pride was scrapped, Pattaya Pride was re-organised, etc?

 

 

I didn't even know there was a Bangkok Pride Day, Pattaya Pride Day, etc.  I asked my partner and some of our friends and they said they vaguely remember seeing something on the Internet  but didn't really pay much attention to it as they seemed like commercial events organised by businesses that catered to tourists and foreign residents and attended by the employees of those businesses, many of whom were straight men (not that there's a problem with that if they really wanted to be there to show support and not doing it because they are on the payroll).

 

 

Bangkok is the "gay capital of Asia" and had a "fabulous gay Pride every year"? take the tourist oriented gay venues, the sexpats and sex tourists out of the equation and what do you really have? if you want to know about the "pride that a country deserves" perhaps you would be better served looking at Taipei and how its gay pride events and gay rights movement has evolved over the past few years, look at the cultural similarities and differences between the two countries and then perhaps you could try a real article asking "why is there so very little Pride in Thailand" from a more considered perspective rather than this shallow attempt!

 

bkkguy

 

I too had a raised eyebrow when I read that label of Bangkok being the gay capital of Asia.  Firstly, I can't think of a single Asian city that would even come close to being a "gay capital" but I'd agree on Taipei being being the most progressive as far as gay rights and gay acceptance are concerned.  We know at least a dozen gay professionals from all over South East Asia who are bilingual in English and Mandarin who have moved to live and work in Taiwan.  High standard of living - salaries do not quite match Hong Kong and Singapore perhaps but neither do stress levels.  Even draconian Singapore has a more mature attitude towards gay relationships.  When I worked there a few years ago, I was amazed to find so many guys in their 30s and 40s in loving relationships and settled  down together, many of whom have become our friends.  Here in Bangkok, guys in their 40s are still trying to pass off being in their early 20s with cosmetic procedures and what not, hoping to go home  with a 20-year-old on a Saturday night.  The smart ones just work on having a fat wallet instead of plumping their faces with fillers.  I think those who don't venture out of Silom, Patpong, Patong or Pattaya tend to be confuse "commercial gay-sex  capital" with "gay capital".  Even "commercial gay-sex capital" is not strictly correct as many, if not most, of these gay-sex businesses wouldn't turn away female customers.  They are simply businesses seeking to make a profit by providing services to those who need them them and can afford to pay for them.

[Guest Prakanong]

 but how many local gays do you seriously think find a parade of scantily clad barboys from venues they would never think of visiting are relevant to gaining acceptance of gay lifestyles in Thailand? how many local gays do you think seriously believe it was a "national and international tragedy" when Bangkok Pride was scrapped, Pattaya Pride was re-organised, etc?

 

Bangkok is the "gay capital of Asia" and had a "fabulous gay Pride every year"? take the tourist oriented gay venues, the sexpats and sex tourists out of the equation and what do you really have?

 

I just wanted to add that I hope I didn't sound as if I was against these gay parades and trade shows in my above post.  It doesn't matter to me or my friends what westerners, waitstaff and sex workers do in their designated enclaves.  If they're having fun and generating money for the local economy and not preventing other people from enjoying their holiday or earning a living, then I have no problem with it.

[vinapu]

against these gay parades and trade shows 

don't worry, you are not alone, I hate all parades, be it Victory Day, St Claus Day, Pride Day or whatever day.

 

If you gay you need to like men , not necessarily all gay trimmings