My next trip - need some advice

[GoldMember]

Hey everyone, 

 

I just started planning my next summer trip and would like some advice. Considering the great advice I got from people here on my last couple of trips, I immediately decided to consult with you guys once again. 

My trip does not include Thailand this time so I hope it's OK for me to post here. 

 

The inspiration for this summer's trip started only a month after I returned from BKK on Sep 14. I started to read a book called "Nothing to envy" about North Korea. After investigating a little I decided that this summer I will visit there. Once again, I am going alone since my BF is in the Israeli army and they don't like the idea of him travelling to North Korea. This leaves me, once again, alone in Asia. Which is not that bad for me. 

 

I got for this trip 15 days. 5 days of them I'll be in North Korea on a group tour. The question is where to go besides NK. 

 

My sketched plan now is: TLV -> Seoul (4 nights) -> Shanghai (4 nights) -> Beijing (1 night - must be there for my NK visa) -> NK (4 nights) -> Beijing (1 night) -> TLV. 

 

Considering the fact that I like exploring big cities and less into country side, I ask this: 

1. Shanghai vs. Seoul - 4 nights each is a proper distribution of time? 

2. Any general thoughts regarding other or better places to go to?

3. My impression is that Beijing is less interesting than Seoul or Shanghai. Is that correct? 

4.  Any accommodation advice? Gay travel advice? 

 

Thanks in advanced! 

 

 

 

 

[kokopelli]

My only advice is to bring some Bibles with you to N. Korea and share the word of the Lord with them.

[colmx]

i have never been to Korea, but did spend 4 nights in each of Shnaghai and Beijing

 

Gay scene in BJ is better (Destination night club is great), BJ obviously also has summer palace, forbidden City and great wall... so 1 day for each

 

Shanghai for me was much more interesting, loved the mix of old and new there. And the people were less "crude" and more softly spoken...

 

For example

You are unlikely to see as many people spiting on the streets and subways of SH versus the streets of BJ

 

Never spent a night alone in either city... and that was 5 years ago before Grindr et al... So great for pick ups!

[Guest luvthai]

My advice is to avoid North Korea.

[vinapu]

I envy you and can't wait for your North Korean reports.

 

If I was forced to choose between Shanghai, Seoul and Beijing , last one would be my choice, Forbidden City, Temple of Heaven and Great Wall are not to be missed

[Guest droper22]

I've been to all of the 3 cities. Never been to NK and never plan to go. I didn't like Beijing as a city. Very huge in a comunist style city. But it's worthy to visit Forbidden City and Great Wall. Shanghai is more like european city with a few like european districts (i.e French Concession). I like Shanghai.

Seoul is different, modern city, very nice, a lot to see.

Good time over there.

[Guest abang1961]

Like most of the forum users here, I have yet to see NK although I've been SK several times.

If I am asked for my opinion.

 

2 days in Beijing

to see the Forbidden City and Tian An Men Square (1 morning)

to see the Summer Place (1 afternoon)

to see the Great Wall of China (1 morning)

- all these places can be reached by public transport.

 

2 days in Shanghai

to see the pre-Communist (pre-1949) facade - strolling the Bund in the late afternoon..

to see the modern metropolis (in the evening when the lights are up)

to see Yu (pronounced as Yv, yes tongue is v-shaped) Yuan for that Chinese culture

 

If time permits,

take the train to Suzhou (45 mins train from Shanghai), Hangzhou (2 hours away from Shanghai)..

fly to Chengdu for the Pandas....

 

Reminder:

Don't be tempted to buy too many souvenirs..I know they are inexpensive and looks good in your living room/kitchen/bedroom.

[Guest]

I'm sure North Korea would be interesting.

However, I would have problems with the principle of providing foreign currency for one of the most evil regimes currently operating on the planet.

[kokopelli]

However, I would have problems with the principle of providing foreign currency for one of the most evil regimes currently operating on the planet.

Why worry, the North Koreans print more $100 USD notes then the US Treasury.

[fedssocr]

The impression I have from reading a good bit about South Korea lately is that it is not exactly a gay mecca. Lots of homophobia thanks to the strains of Christianity Americans brought there. If you're into the whole Hallyu thing at all though I think it's almost a must-visit. I think 4 days in Seoul is probably not too much time, but in general I am not a big fan of going to too many places in a trip so that is just a personal preference type thing. The country seems to have a lot of nice natural sites as well. I hope to spend some time there in the next couple of years.

[firecat69]

I can't imagine why anyone would want to go to NK. Dirt poor country with a dictator.  Do or say anything they consider wrong, you will be thrown in jail and your country will not be able to help.

 

So many places to visit in the world . NK, Iraq , Syria would never make my list.         

[Guest]

The impression I have from reading a good bit about South Korea lately is that it is not exactly a gay mecca. Lots of homophobia thanks to the strains of Christianity Americans brought there. If you're into the whole Hallyu thing at all though I think it's almost a must-visit. I think 4 days in Seoul is probably not too much time, but in general I am not a big fan of going to too many places in a trip so that is just a personal preference type thing. The country seems to have a lot of nice natural sites as well. I hope to spend some time there in the next couple of years.

I agree with your preference for not visiting too many places on one trip. There is a lot to be said for spending long enough somewhere to appreciate the location AND to relax on a holiday, rather than spend too much time travelling.

I hope to spend at least a week or 2 in South Korea sometime. As there is apparently not much of a gay scene, perhaps it would have to be the sandwich in the middle of a longer trip.

[vinapu]

I can't imagine why anyone would want to go to NK. Dirt poor country with a dictator.

to see places very few people were able to visit, that's reason good enough.

 

In dirt poor country even visitor of modest means may feel pampered so there's good feeling factor also.

 

Dictatorships are nasty but also mean that most of those countries are very safe for visitor.

 

Iraq and Syria are war zones - no comparison to North Korea.

 

GoldMember - just go ! 

[williewillie]

I've been to S. Korea, albeit 20 years ago. Some things stood out.

At night, one sees christian crosses lit up everywhere. I was down south in Busan as well as in Seoul.

Seoul felt far more western than other Asian cities. Lots of young US soldiers too.

[Guest]

Dictatorships are nasty but also mean that most of those countries are very safe for visitor.

Vietnam and China are dictatorships, but these countries do allow their citizens considerable freedom and living standards are rising.

 

North Korea has a completely evil leadership. Anyone who crosses them is jailed and tortured. Their people have miserable living standards and are not allowed to travel outside the country. The exception would be when they are sent abroad to work a slaves, for example on construction projects in Qatar. Then the income makes it's way directly back to the North Korea government.

 

There are very few cases where I would not want to visit a country on ethical grounds, however this is one.

[vinapu]

 they are sent abroad to work a slaves, for example on construction projects in Qatar. Then the income makes it's way directly back to the North Korea government.

 

There are very few cases where I would not want to visit a country on ethical grounds, however this is one.

not to dispute your reasons but it's quite possible that when those slaves return home  whatever leftovers they were paid may make them quite affluent in comparison to compatriots deprived that chance.

 

It's often a case with workers from countries with controlled currencies working abroad that pittance they are making makes them rich when it's exchanged on the black market upon return.

 

And yes , according to The Economist which published an article about North's economy few weeks ago, there's black market there

[ChristianPFC]

I wonder if the North Korean workers see any of the money they earn. I guess their government takes it and pays them in NK currency.

 

There must be problems with people disappearing (i.e. they stay and work illegally in that country), however if construction site is far enough out in the desert or run like a prison, it's difficult to escape.

[GoldMember]

There are very few cases where I would not want to visit a country on ethical grounds, however this is one.

You are right. The trip to NK did raise several moral issues: Am I providing them money to sponsor their vicious leader? Am I cooperating with one of the world's most evil regimes? Why do I feel the need to go and see such a bad place when there are so many nice places I haven't seen. I am not sure that I have a good answer to all these questions but I decided to go anyway. In this post you can read some remarks regarding "is travelling to NK ethical". I personally think some of his claims are pure self-rationalization and I don't buy them. I guess I just wanna go there so I decided to disregard the ethical perspective. Just like I do living my normal day to day life in Tel Aviv while 50KM eastwards my government is continuing it's ongoing evil occupation over the Palestinians for almost half a decade. Which in my perspective, my indifference, is much worse than travelling a week in NK. Maybe after my trip I'll have another opinion.

 

 

Gay scene in BJ is better

 

Really?! I was sure Shanghai's gay scene is much better. Some of the websites describe SH gay scene as better than HK's gay scene. 

 

If I was forced to choose between Shanghai, Seoul and Beijing , last one would be my choice, Forbidden City, Temple of Heaven and Great Wall are not to be missed

I am starting to think maybe I should skip Seoul this time and maybe spend some more time in Beijing... Or maybe just dedicate more time to BJ than I intended to. 

 

 

I think 4 days in Seoul is probably not too much time, but in general I am not a big fan of going to too many places in a trip so that is just a personal preference type thing. The country seems to have a lot of nice natural sites as well. I hope to spend some time there in the next couple of years.

This is always a dilemma. Spending more time in each city or spending less time and seeing more. I know most people prefer the former but I am always afraid that I won't have time in the near future doing this kind of long travel distances so I tend to go for the latter. Me and my husband will start a surrogacy procedure soon and expecting to be parents maybe even before next year's summer so that will probably put an end to all my travelling plans for the next few years so I am trying to get the most out of what time there is left for me to travel and have fun  

 

Thanks all for the advice! I am still gathering info and once my itinerary is closed i'll come and ask for more specific advice. 

[vinapu]

I wonder if the North Korean workers see any of the money they earn. I guess their government takes it and pays them in NK currency.

 

There must be problems with people disappearing (i.e. they stay and work illegally in that country), however if construction site is far enough out in the desert or run like a prison, it's difficult to escape.

that's the problem with North Korea - we don't know anything about them and their life , only what our own capitalistic propaganda tells us.

 

Not trying to whitewash heinous regime and sound as apologetic to red dictatorships , just pointing that we really have very few reliable sources about life there.

 

In my travels I happened to visit China just after it opened in mid-eighties / province of Qinghai was still out of bounds for foreigners 10 months before my arrival / and Iran in 2000, what I saw was completely different of what I expected based on what we were feed at home.

 

Another eye opened was late evening arrival by train to New York in 1988, last thing I expected to see in glorious USA know to me from movies only was sea of derelict of Harlem including fires on the street  in the middle of that fabulous city.

 

This is joy of traveling - eye opening for the wolds charms.

 

GoldMember, just go and behave and you will be fine

[Moses]

Beijing:

Forbidden City + Circus at evening

Great Wall but not the "touristic zoo" at Badalin but original Simatai + Digling imperators underground temple on the way back 

Temple of Heaven + Summer palace

 

Shanghai

TV tower + historical museum in the basement of tower + Oceanarium just 7 min walk

Historical quarter + Yu garden + riverside at sunset-evening

don't forget to ride maglev on the way to or from airport

 

Seoul
Imperator's palace Sejongno + korean historical museum on the square in front of palace, + sunset lazy walk by Insadong arts-shopping street and crazy evening at gay-mecca Itaewon district

[vinapu]

 In this post you can read some remarks regarding "is travelling to NK ethical". 

Thank you for the link. Interesting remarks and observations. Certainly he was not eaten alive while there and so won't be you.

 

Nothing wrong with refraining for travelling here and there for ethical reason but one can't be too sanctimonious about the issue.

 

Many countries have skeletons in the closet and may be boycotted for that reason

[GoldMember]

Plane ticket booked!  

 

So my trip goes like this: 

 

TLV - > Beijing - Landing in Beijing at the 11th of August at 0830 AM. 2 nights. 

Beijing -> Pyongyang - 4 nights 

Pyongyang -> Beijing - Here I'm not sure whether to stay another night in Beijing. 

Beijing -> Shanghai- 3-4 nights 

Shanghai-> Seoul - 3-4 nights 

Seoul -> TLV

 

Now I have 2.5 questions: 

1. Regarding Beijing, I am landing back from NK and have 2 options: the first is to leave straight to Shanghai and the second is to have another night in Beijing (after already spending 48 hours there). The main advantage of the first is that I am already in the airport when returning from NK so maybe going back to the city for 24 hours is a little too much. The second option is nice since all of you said wonderful things regarding Beijing and also I am thinking of maybe taking the Bullet Train to Shanghai since it might be a nice experience so the airport advantage looses it's advantage in this case. Any thoughts? 

2. The weekend - Since one of the 2 weekends will be in NK and will probably not include fun gay stuff, I wanna make the most out of the second weekend. I have two options: the first is to spend Friday eve in Shanghai and Saturday eve in Seoul that way I taste them both on the weekend. This leaves Seoul with only 3 nights. The second is to leave Shanghai Friday morning and spend the entire weekend in Seoul. I read in some sites that say that Shanghai's gay scene (parties, saunas etc.) is really developed and that it is really worth exploring. Any experience regarding any of them? 

2.5 Over planning - Should I just not think about any of these issues and decide while I travel? 

 

Thanks again, wrote all the recommendations regarding sites to visit. 

 

Now I just have to wait 4 mounts....

[vinapu]

 

2.5 Over planning - Should I just not think about any of these issues and decide while I travel? 

 

 

 

Now I just have to wait 4 months....

yes, overplanning adds unnecessary stress to holidays since one watches his watch way too often missing all those cuties passing by 

 

you wait for your trip and we for your reports

[Guest]

That's a punishing schedule.

Although you arrive in Beijing at 8:00 am, your body clock is going to tell you it's time to sleep.
So 2 nights in Beijing really means only one and a bit days. Anyhow, I hope you enjoy it !

 

I'm also guilty of over planning, or more specifically, procrastination over minor points like comparing 2 different hotels or something like that.   I must correct this habit. 

 

[Guest Goldenboy]

Have been Seoul a few times.

 

Gay centre is itawean near the U.S. base. Plenty of clubs and bars on what is known as homo hill.

Itawean also a good place to go for the traditional saunas as opposed to gay saunas for that experience - they have seen a naked foreigner there so u don't feel like a freak show.

Hamilton hotel a modest 3 star is in the thick of it and is popular with gays and has its own traditional sauna underneath. Sometimes gay pool parties.