The Real Thailand

[Guest OutWebmaster]

This post on Out in Thailand website has received a lot of great feedback from readers. 
Who knew that there'd be so many people out there that see a different type of Gay Thailand?

 

"5 Things They Don't Want You to Know About Gay Thailand"

 

 

[fedssocr]

It's a weird diatribe. Not sure what his agenda is exactly.

[Gaybutton]

Not sure what his agenda is exactly.

 

I am.  Seems obvious enough to me.  Don't you just love it when someone decides to pass himself off as the real expert, brushes off opinions expressed on the boards as coming from people who don't really know much of anything, and puts people down because of their age?  Great idea - write an article that's going to alienate a lot of your own readership.

 

There you have it, folks.  Don't come to us "sad, jaded souls and trapped in their misery" anymore - not when you now know just where to find the real, high quality information.

 

Mr. Barnes, would you mind explaining just what qualifies you as more knowledgeable than everyone else?

 

My advice, which I already know will be disregarded and rejected, but I'll give it anyway - next issue, write a retraction and an apology.

[Guest JamesBarnes]

Dear Gaybutton,

 

You are absolutely right... no retraction and no apology.

 

I do not have to explain, to quote you, 'just what qualifies you as more knowledgeable than everyone else?' because I have never claimed that I am- nor would I,

 

You conveniently ignore this from the piece: 'Of course, there are some sober souls whose contributions are valuable...' You will obviously don the cap that best fits you.

 

I am not putting 'people down because of their age' but acknowledging the certain fact that some older sexpats have antiquated and outdated views. Do you deny this?

 

As for my readership, the majority are Thai and I have already received many calls, messages, emails and Facebook postings of support from them and foreigners.

 

Best wishes to you,

[Guest OutWebmaster]

The future of Gay Thailand doesn't depend on the ageing sexpats that are living in the past. 
Nor does Out in Thailand magazine. 
There is a new GayThailand emerging from today's youth with international experience. 
It's happening here, whether or not you embrace the changes.

No one needs to apologize for pointing out the truth.

[Gaybutton]

I am not putting 'people down because of their age' but acknowledging the certain fact that some older sexpats have antiquated and outdated views. Do you deny this?

 

 

Like hell you're not putting people down because of their age.  The way you wrote your garbage, you're damned right I "deny this."

 

According to your "outwebmaster," you're pointing out the truth.  Really?  Your idea of truth is what you simply made up.

 

As far as I'm concerned there are two words that best describe someone who would write that kind of utter insulting nonsense, let alone try to pass it off as truth.  The first word is Horse's.

 

You know what my opinion is.  Don't worry, I won't post anything else on this topic.  I'm too old, jaded, drunk, sad, and miserable to bother.

[kokopelli]

Gotta agree, what a load of shit; whatever respect I had for Out is done and gone.

[Guest JamesBarnes]

Dear Gaybutton,

 

The question you have chosen to ignore is: Do you deny that some sexpats have outdated views?

 

You say of yourself, 'I'm too old, jaded, drunk, sad, and miserable to bother.' As I said in my last response to you, you will don the cap that you think best fits.

 

Best wishes,

[Guest JamesBarnes]

Gotta agree, what a load of shit; whatever respect I had for Out is done and gone.

 

Dear kokopelli,

 

There are 5 main points in this piece that also notes how out of touch many aging sexpats are.

 

1. The overwhelmingly vast majority of young gay Thais are not moneyboys.

 

2. It’s not ‘all about the money’. Random acts of kindness are frequent in Thailand.

 

3. There is far more to Thailand than the commercial sex business.

 

4. ‘Ladyboys’ are not untrustworthy thieves.

 

5. Internet forums are not the fount of all knowledge.

 

What is there to disagree with?

 

Best wishes,

[Guest OutWebmaster]

The article shouldn't concern you at all, GB, unless you are an Ageing Sexpat. 
And if you are, then you have much bigger concerns to worry about, namely:
- advancing age
- diminishing pension 

- E.D.

- exchange rates and the resulting smaller apartment thereof

- less and less Money Boys willing to cater to your myopic version of Thailand's modern Gay reality

- not being found for days, after you collapse in your studio apartment

[Guest LoveThailand]

It is a very nice attempt to give a different perspective of Thailand.

Incessant squabbles about who is and who is not "an expert" on Thailand are just ridiculous.

Readers can make their own opinion about the posts and their content.

[Guest JamesBarnes]

It is a very nice attempt to give a different perspective of Thailand.

Incessant squabbles about who is and who is not "an expert" on Thailand are just ridiculous.

Readers can make their own opinion about the posts and their content.

 

LoveThailand: The Voice of Reason

 

Best wishes,

[williewillie]

The article shouldn't concern you at all, GB, unless you are an Ageing Sexpat. [/size]And if you are, then you have much bigger concerns to worry about, namely:[/size]- advancing age[/size]- diminishing pension [/size]

- E.D.

- exchange rates and the resulting smaller apartment thereof

- less and less Money Boys willing to cater to your myopic version of Thailand's modern Gay reality

- not being found for days, after you collapse in your studio apartment

I don't think gaybutton is going take the bait and bite.

Personalizing your comments and using two handles comes across as tacky and a desparate attempt for attention.

[Smiles]

It is a very nice attempt to give a different perspective of Thailand.

LoveThailand:  It is far from that (and certainly no Voice of Reason) . . . starting off with that the points made are hardly 'different' whatsoever.

I've heard all these shallow little cliches discussed continually on many a message board for years now, and certainly in the specific context which Mr Barnes addresses them, i.e. that they are all nonsense.

 

Agreed, the list is nonsense, but the list is not new stuff at all . . . but it is cheap journalism: i.e. the fantastical generalization that all (or even most) 'aging sexpats' believe heartily in the efficacy ~ perhaps a creepy deliciousness ~ of the items on 'The List' above.

Utter nonsense, cliched balderdash, factually unproven, shallow extrapolation.

 

I could drag out a dozen or so friends who, like myself, live full time in Thailand and would laugh this so-called 'Breaking News' out of the the nearest coffee shop. 

 

Perhaps a new Editor is needed for this publication.

[Guest JamesBarnes]

Dear Smiles,

 

Thank you for your input.

 

It seems that you agree with the 'truth' contained in the article and can 'drag out' friends who live here full time but it is aimed at newcomers to Thailand and Thais who are sick and tired of the way they are treated by the sexpats.

 

As for breaking news, you are the first to have used that expression.

 

Best wishes,

[Smiles]

 

As for breaking news, you are the first to have used that expression.

 

Thank you so much. Unlike your article and it's List, I try my best to be original.

[kokopelli]

 

The article shouldn't concern you at all, GB, unless you are an Ageing Sexpat. 

And if you are, then you have much bigger concerns to worry about, namely:

- advancing age

- diminishing pension 

- E.D.

- exchange rates and the resulting smaller apartment thereof

- less and less Money Boys willing to cater to your myopic version of Thailand's modern Gay reality

- not being found for days, after you collapse in your studio apartment

 

Just how low can you go? Why don't you take your food fight somewhere else ?

[TotallyOz]

I am getting older every day and I love being a sexpat.  i see no shame in that at all.  I also enjoyed the article and agree with many of the points.   The vast majority of guys in the country are not moneyboys.  Thank goodness for me, some of them are and they are easily available.

 

Now, all we need in this thread to bring it back full force to his last thread is the boss at SGT (Fountainhall) to jump in and tell Firecat he is reinstated and then banned again on his board.   jk Oh, the good ole days.

 

As for OutinThailand, I love what you are trying to do.  At least you are attempting to get information out there.  Keep it up.  Keep trying and keep working hard and you will be successful.

 

As for WillyWilly, it is sad when someone creates two personalities and then talks to themselves isn't it?  I know you know of no one that does that in your little posse.

[Guest Steve1903]

I've been sitting here for about half an hour trying to think how to approach this reply. Honestly, the article is so poor and cliche ridden that it would take too long to take it apart. I'm not a/n (s)expat myself but have spent a bit of time there and happily will be back next week for a short break. I've never read this publication and from the quality of this article it appears I've missed nothing. 

[bkkguy]

The future of Gay Thailand doesn't depend on the ageing sexpats that are living in the past. 

Nor does Out in Thailand magazine. 

 

if that is the case then why do you keep resorting to junk marketing 101 tricks like click-bait teasers for shock-horror revelations and promos for your exclusive articles (whatever James wants to define "exclusive" to mean) in forums like this that are popular with the "ageing sexpats" you claim you don't depend on?

 

and why are most of your distribution points, advertisements and venue listings for places obviously fronts for commercial sex and/or targeted at or popular with the "ageing sexpats" you claim you don't depend on?

 

bkkguy

[Guest]

Carry on the good work publishing your magazine.  However, this particular article isn't one of the better pieces of work.

 

The opening & closing paragraphs are a negative and unjustified attack on older residents in Thailand.  What utter rubbish.  No wonder you're attracting criticism. Not only is the article unfair, it is also insulting to what I presume is one of your core groups of readers. Possibly not a good decision.  

 

Section 1 states what is obvious to most people.

 

Sections 2~5 raise some good points.

[colmx]

 

- not being found for days, after you collapse in your studio apartment

 

Hmm

Let me get this straight

1. OIT owner/webmaster shows off his "new" maps on a gay froum

2. OIT owner/webmaster is criticisied for having poor and out dated information on his maps on said forum

3. OIT owner/webmaster receives good informatio on what to update from the knowledgeable members of the forum

4. OIT owner/webmaster takes offence at criticism and posts a scathing post about the members of forums in general on his magazine

5. OIT owner/webmaster posts disgusting remarks inferring that member of this board will be found days after dying - implying that nobdy gives a shit about them

 

Charming!

I am glad that its quite difficult to find OIT in the places that I normally hang out

Could it be that the 100 copies of the magazine that are printed and distributed per month are all in the hands of their imaginary Thai middle class gay readers?

[fedssocr]

The arguments are essentially straw-men. I admit that I don't read every post or thread on every message board, but the article is such a caricature as to be divorced from reality. I've never read anything here or elsewhere denying the existence of non-moneyboy middle class (or other class) Thais. In fact I'm sure I've seen that discussed in many places for years...talking about the clubs and bars that cater to Thais who mostly go out in groups for example. 

 

All of the insults and putdowns just come across mean-spirited and don't do anything to further any discussion. It paints with such a broad brush that's almost meaningless.

[firecat69]

if that is the case then why do you keep resorting to junk marketing 101 tricks like click-bait teasers for shock-horror revelations and promos for your exclusive articles (whatever James wants to define "exclusive" to mean) in forums like this that are popular with the "ageing sexpats" you claim you don't depend on?

 

and why are most of your distribution points, advertisements and venue listings for places obviously fronts for commercial sex and/or targeted at or popular with the "ageing sexpats" you claim you don't depend on?

 

bkkguy

My favorite post in this thread and exactly on point.  Why the OP posts this article here in a place full of aging ex pats who don't get it. (according to him).  I'm pretty sure Thailand is way behind most of the Western World in its acceptance of gays. Did I miss it or did Thailand make it legal for gays to marry?

 

Wonder how far you can go in a Company in Thailand if you are Out.  Wonder how accepting Thais in the Upper Class of Thailand are towards Gay Rights?

 

Not to say I don't agree with some of the overall points and frankly BKK is a different world then say Pattaya .  Certainly in BKK I would guess the overwhelming majority of gays are not in the Sex Trade in anyway and would not be seen on or anywhere close to Soi Twilight.  

 

On Gayromeo, Jack'd , Grindr and Hornet etc ,  you will be hard pressed to find anyone in Pattaya that is not motivated by money either overtly or by suggestion.

 

In BKK those same sites have a much smaller % of members who are interested in remuneration for sex.

 

So IMHO this was the wrong place for the OP to post the article because many find it insulting . But if he really believes everything he wrote then he should not be plying his wares in all the businesses  that definitely are the complete opposite of what he says Gays represent in Thailand.

[farangyai]

I think all of the common sense points in the article could have been made without resorting to targetting the mystery expats.  It left me with a view of the writer as a bit uncouth and having some of the same cynical flavor as those expats he accuses, targets or describes. I don't know the reasoning behind the writer's approach.  Was it to try to distinguish between the mystery expats and the new fabs for his desired Thai readers?  Was it to blow off steam after being targetted by the mystery expats? Was it a clumsy attempt to contrast between old and new for literary excitement and journalistic sensationalism to get someone to read the articles?

  Whatever the reason, I think all would have been better served for the author to have taken the high road and not stooped to the level of throwing mud at others and then doing it again in this forum.

  Contrary to what the writer thinks, there are many forum readers that have a much more balanced view of Thailand, it's people and it's customs than they let on. They have pictures to post, stories to tell, advice to give, experiences to share that provide enjoyable reading. The nattering nabobs of negativism just talk louder or use bigger font. So my suggestion to the magazine writer/editor is to be above the fray, not part of it.