Only in this forum....

[Guest JamesBarnes]

I am very pleased to announce that our February issue, celebrating 50 editions of OUT iT Magazine is now online and will be available in a gay venue near you this week

 

We have made some fundamental changes that include moving the guide section to our website and I would be most grateful to hear any feedback you can give about our NEW maps and listings at www.out-in-thailand.com

 

Very many thanks and best wishes,

 

 

[Gaybutton]

Ok, since you asked here's my feedback.  Your maps are still inaccurate and incomplete.

 

Also, if anyone wants to use the maps anyway, how are they supposed to do that if they're not in the magazine?  Are you expecting people to come for a holiday and then spend time on a computer to search your maps?

 

I've been telling you about the faulty maps ever since you first started up your magazine and to this day they're still faulty.  If you cannot, or will not,  provide accurate, up to date maps, then maybe you should consider entirely eliminating the maps from your publication.

[williewillie]

You asked for feedback. Self promotion and hyping rarely the route to success.

[Guest]

Feedback:

 

1 Promoting your magazine here and on other boards IS a good idea.

 

2 Your website says the maps will be updated more frequently now they are on line.   That's a good idea, as long as it happens.   The maps are currently out of date and have some businesses in the wrong locations.  

 

3 I found maps in magazines to be quite useful when visiting various Thai cities for the first time. However, when certain magazines had maps which missed entire streets out, it was very difficult to locate bars that were spread out in Chiang Mai.  Google maps & GPS should be much more useful for that, if the location is correct.   Most visitors will have a smart phone now.

Nevertheless, it's also nice to pick up a print magazine and glance at a map. 

 

Good luck with the magazine.

[ChristianPFC]

First congratulation that your magazine is the only one out of four that is distributed widely and on time in all gay venues I monitor.

 

Maps and updating businesses is a general problem, not only Out in Thailand has outdated (meaning: incorrect, wrong) information.

 

I was going to email you anyway about some mistakes in the maps that immediately sprung to my eyes (because I have been to these places recently) in January 2015 print edition:

 

Bangkok Ramkhamhaeng: See K Dance Club is no more, Singapore Pub changed name to Wave Club about half a year ago and is slightly misplaced in map, Troy sauna is no more, "De Ja Vu" change to "Deja Vu" and is slightly misplaced in map, Crusing sauna is listed but not marked in the map, "IMA Spa Liberty Garden Hotel" might be "9 The Nine Spa" (don't confuse with a place in Sukhumvit with a similar name).

 

A general note on maps: places in Silom area can be found by following the map, but venues in Ramkhamhaeng area or Chiang Mai cannot be found because resolution is insufficient (but low density of the venues does not warrant higher resolution). Addresses in English and Thai would be more helpful (cf. Chiang Mai gay guide, all addresses to print out on 2 A4 pages).

 

I'm sad to see Darika go.

[williewillie]

Just a few errors after all. Anyone wanna bet the errors will still be there in six months?

[Gaybutton]

GPS should be much more useful for that, if the location is correct.

 

I think that would be a very good idea for all the magazines that publish maps.  Include accurate GPS coordinates for the venues listed - with emphasis on accurate.

 

I'll return Mr. Barnes' "best wishes" once he starts taking responsibilty for the accuracy of what he publishes.

[Guest JamesBarnes]

Ok, since you asked here's my feedback.  Your maps are still inaccurate and incomplete.

 

Also, if anyone wants to use the maps anyway, how are they supposed to do that if they're not in the magazine?  Are you expecting people to come for a holiday and then spend time on a computer to search your maps?

 

I've been telling you about the faulty maps ever since you first started up your magazine and to this day they're still faulty.  If you cannot, or will not,  provide accurate, up to date maps, then maybe you should consider entirely eliminating the maps from your publication.

 

Thanks for your interest Gaybutton

 

The world has moved on and most tourists now carry mobile devices that are able to access the information online.

 

Any inaccuraces that anyone lets us know about will be immediately amended.

 

Best wishes,

[Guest JamesBarnes]

Feedback:

 

1 Promoting your magazine here and on other boards IS a good idea.

 

2 Your website says the maps will be updated more frequently now they are on line.   That's a good idea, as long as it happens.   The maps are currently out of date and have some businesses in the wrong locations.  

 

3 I found maps in magazines to be quite useful when visiting various Thai cities for the first time. However, when certain magazines had maps which missed entire streets out, it was very difficult to locate bars that were spread out in Chiang Mai.  Google maps & GPS should be much more useful for that, if the location is correct.   Most visitors will have a smart phone now.

Nevertheless, it's also nice to pick up a print magazine and glance at a map. 

 

Good luck with the magazine.

 

 

Thank you z709

[Guest JamesBarnes]

First congratulation that your magazine is the only one out of four that is distributed widely and on time in all gay venues I monitor.

 

Maps and updating businesses is a general problem, not only Out in Thailand has outdated (meaning: incorrect, wrong) information.

 

I was going to email you anyway about some mistakes in the maps that immediately sprung to my eyes (because I have been to these places recently) in January 2015 print edition:

 

Bangkok Ramkhamhaeng: See K Dance Club is no more, Singapore Pub changed name to Wave Club about half a year ago and is slightly misplaced in map, Troy sauna is no more, "De Ja Vu" change to "Deja Vu" and is slightly misplaced in map, Crusing sauna is listed but not marked in the map, "IMA Spa Liberty Garden Hotel" might be "9 The Nine Spa" (don't confuse with a place in Sukhumvit with a similar name).

 

A general note on maps: places in Silom area can be found by following the map, but venues in Ramkhamhaeng area or Chiang Mai cannot be found because resolution is insufficient (but low density of the venues does not warrant higher resolution). Addresses in English and Thai would be more helpful (cf. Chiang Mai gay guide, all addresses to print out on 2 A4 pages).

 

I'm sad to see Darika go.

 

Thanks Christian- we will get those changed asap!

[Guest JamesBarnes]

Please consider this an open invitation to let me know of any inaccuraces so thet we can get it right!

 

Thank you and best wishes,

[Gaybutton]

Please consider this an open invitation to let me know of any inaccuraces so thet we can get it right!

 

Thank you and best wishes,

 

You won't get any from me.  The accuracy of your publication is your responsibility, not ours.  You've been told that before too.  Your response was, and apparently still is, that you rely on your readers to send you the information.  In my opinion that is unprofessional, especially for a profit making publication.

 

You're the one who decided to go into the magazine business.  If you are truly interested in professionalism and accuracy, go out and get the information yourself or open your wallet and pay staff to get it for you.

 

I can't speak for others, but as for me, I'm not here to be a de facto free staff member for you.

[Guest OutWebmaster]

The new maps are a work in progress. They are a living thing, and will get updated as information comes to me.

As anyone can tell, the maps are fed via Google Maps, which are rife with inaccuracies. Addresses and points shown on maps very often point to empty lots or entirely different businesses. Short of visiting every listing personally, I am reliant upon getting information from the business itself, or from website listings. 

Very often, small businesses that have a website, show their location with a hand-drawn map, and it's open to interpretation. I do my best to translate that into a pinpoint on our maps. Many small saunas or pubs don't even have a website, so I get whatever information I can find online. If all I can find is "Sunee Plaza, Pattaya", then I am limited to what I can show online.

 

If the business has a web presence and lists their GPS coordinates, I use those. I don't second guess a business's stated coordinates. If they post them, I post them. And as a few forum posters here have pointed out, they are not always accurate. I will be contacting each business we list (if they provide contact information) and asking for accurate addresses and GPS coordinates. I can only hope that they will participate, but of course it's not 100% likely that all will. 

James Barnes has asked for feedback, and I will see all of it, and take whatever action I can. Asking for feedback is not the same as asking forum readers to 'work for free'. There is no work in offering feedback. This is a forum after all, and feedback is very much what a forum is about. No one is being asked to walk the streets and obtain addresses. However, If you have knowledge about a specific business listing, and choose not to share that information, then everyone loses, not just you.

The maps WILL get better, over time. These are first editions, and map locations will become more accurate. New businesses will be added when I learn of them. Closed businesses will be removed (typically I find information through forums or readers telling us - closed businesses never contact us when they close).

I appreciate your patience. I further appreciate your participation with helping them become more accurate. If you help me locate businesses more accurately, I will thank you, and so will others. If you want to tell us how badly we're doing, I will read that too, but you're not helping anyone, least of all yourself. 

Thanks to those who have already provided information that I can use to update the maps (today, not after 6 months!). Please keep the information coming, or contact me via our website. 

WebMaster, 
Out in Thailand Online

[Guest OutWebmaster]

First congratulation that your magazine is the only one out of four that is distributed widely and on time in all gay venues I monitor.

 

Maps and updating businesses is a general problem, not only Out in Thailand has outdated (meaning: incorrect, wrong) information.

 

I was going to email you anyway about some mistakes in the maps that immediately sprung to my eyes (because I have been to these places recently) in January 2015 print edition:

 

Bangkok Ramkhamhaeng: See K Dance Club is no more, Singapore Pub changed name to Wave Club about half a year ago and is slightly misplaced in map, Troy sauna is no more, "De Ja Vu" change to "Deja Vu" and is slightly misplaced in map, Crusing sauna is listed but not marked in the map, "IMA Spa Liberty Garden Hotel" might be "9 The Nine Spa" (don't confuse with a place in Sukhumvit with a similar name).

 

A general note on maps: places in Silom area can be found by following the map, but venues in Ramkhamhaeng area or Chiang Mai cannot be found because resolution is insufficient (but low density of the venues does not warrant higher resolution). Addresses in English and Thai would be more helpful (cf. Chiang Mai gay guide, all addresses to print out on 2 A4 pages).

 

I'm sad to see Darika go.

Thanks, Christian. 

I appreciate your information about specific map listings. 

As noted, your updates were based on the January printed maps. 

Some of your updates had already been applied to the online maps that launched last week. 

- See K club was not listed on our online maps

- Deja Vu was accurately named and (hopefully) located

- Nine Spa had beed added to our online maps

- as was Cruising Sauna

 

And thanks for the update re: Singapore Pub. It's now been updated to Wave Club.

Also, Troy Sauna was removed.

 

Very helpful. Much appreciated.

 

WebMaster

Out in Thailand Online

[Up2u]

The Out system or methodology is broken, you must have boots on the ground reporting and updates, and not be dependent on kind readers. No maps are better than maps full of inaccuracies. Here is a site that can do it right.

 

http://www.nickysgaypattaya.com/gay-pattaya/sunee-plaza/map-sunee-plaza/

[pong]

Have also sent in some adjustments years ago-they never, other as was promised a few times, appeared on the maps. Most people can accept an outdated thing from maybe 1-2 month ago, but YEARS old (closed since) gives reason to what khun GB shouts out, I guess for Pattaya. After maybe 2-3 times I just give up.

BUT what nicky /Up2u here tells also applies very much to the BKK maps on that nicky-site-also STILL lists massage places closed by now 1 year ago. And nicky seems to delight in reprint+reprint the same old info in its 'weekly'' all the time.

Remember: this was one major reason why those old faithful travelguidebooks have fallen by the wayside.

 Besides that I am constantly annoyed by the advertising boys speak that everything is only the very best, there is no negative whatsoever, -cpome on, any westerner realises this world is not perfect.

[Gaybutton]

 Short of visiting every listing personally, I am reliant upon getting information from the business itself, or from website listings. 

 

I appreciate your patience.

 

Your entire post is my idea of a load of horse hockey.  You've been appreciating our patience since the day you started your magazine.  Visiting every listing personally is exactly what you should be doing or paying someone to do it for you.  You're the one publishing the maps.

 

The rest of your post is nothing but excuses for being unprofessional and failing to take responsibility for what you publish.  Again, if you cannot, or will not, make sure your informantion is accurate, then since you're a profit making enterprise don't publish information you know to be inaccurate.  Who do you think benefits by inaccurate information?

 

You asked for feedback.  Now you've got it.  What were you expecting?

[vinapu]

Gee, what a storm ! Did heat wave already arrived ?

 

You have very engaged readers James.

 

Nothing wrong in asking readers to point some inaccuracies. It's not that OUT maps are pointing Hero to soi Convent and placing Senso in front of Ari BTS.

 

As for professionalism or lack of it comments, don't you guys remember that Titanic was built by professionals ?

[TotallyOz]

Something on the Internet is inaccurate?  Holy Shit.  Let me call the New York Times.

 

Maps are hard and difficult to do in Thailand as businesses come and go VERY fast and it is impossible to keep up with the data. Even if someone visits in Dec, things really change by April.  So, it means almost having an impossible task.  Relying on readers to give input is the best way for them to go.  And, if you value their site, you will contribute and give them better info.  If you don't give a rats ass about their site then take it and shove it and let them do their thing.

 

If they get good detail and don't use it, that is on them and is bad business.  If they take it and make the site better, then it is a valuable commodity for the gay Thailand community. 

 

Does anyone need to be nasty to them just because they don't update their maps.  Holy Shit.  Not me.  I have better things to do with my time.  But, for those of you that don't, enjoy.  

[Guest LoveThailand]

I think Fan Club is closed now.

 

A side note (off topic): Will a more accurate OUT help both visitors and locals? Will one's time spent helping correct errors be more productive than bitching about what seems a rather popular hard copy resource for many?

[Gaybutton]

 

Does anyone need to be nasty to them just because they don't update their maps

 

Yes, and I think the nastiness is perfectly justified.  I see no difficulty in keeping their maps updated and I see no excuse for failing to do it.  That's what they, not us, but they are supposed to be doing.  If these maps are the result of relying on their readers to supply the information, then it's not quite working out, is it?   I could understand if there were just one or two errors, but these maps are a disgrace.

 

I'll say it again:  It's their responsibility.  If they can't keep their maps accurate, then don't publish them.

 

That's my feedback, which they asked for, which they got, and which I fully expect to be ignored.  If they want to continue publishing half-assed information and continue giving excuses for it, that's their affair.

[TotallyOz]

I admit that I do find it amusing that people that state there is no need for nastiness when directed at themselves are OK to direct it at others.  

 

And, I think Gaybutton does a great service to the Gay Thailand community.  Probably more than anyone since GayPattayan (I think that name is right) was around. But, for years I have said that there was no need to be nasty to him because he likes his "Iron Fist" and to shut down conversations and discussions.  People that don't like it can not participate in his board. I know he is OK with that as he has stated that many times.  But, regardless of what he says, his site is a business.  It may not be in the money making business but it is a business and one that many rely on.

 

Likewise, Out in Thailand is a business.  They try to provide a different service. And, when they get things going well and the site is updated, they also will provide a valuable service to Gay Thailand.  They are in the business to make money and thus, they must take their customer base suggestions and do with that as they will.  Gay Button's business is not about money but it is about him having a voice in Gay Thailand and in the Gay Pattaya scene.  When suggestions are given to him by his customer base, he can take that and do with it as he will. 

 

I see no issue or problem with the way either run their business.  I think there is room for both and regardless of GayButton's Iron Fist or the lack of updates on Out in Thailand, I still enjoy looking at and reading both sites.

[Gaybutton]

But, regardless of what he says, his site is a business.  It may not be in the money making business but it is a business and one that many rely on.

 

I don't agree with that at all.  Not only is that beside the entire point of the topic, but just because you've decided to label my board as a business does not make it so.  A business is there to try to monetarily profit.  I don't profit at all.  As a matter of fact, since I'm the one who pays for my board and everything associated with it, not only do I not profit, but I knowingly and voluntarily operate at a loss.  What I do is not a profession, but publication of a profit-making magazine is.

 

If people rely on me, it's because I at least do my damndest to keep my board accurate and up to date.  When I'm wrong I admit it and take responsibility for it whether it's my fault or not.

 

Again, that is beside the point of this topic.  This topic exists because Mr. Barnes asked for feedback about his maps.  I've given my feedback.  Will yours be to heap praise and tell him all about the fabulous job he's doing with his maps?  My opinion about his maps is they are out of date and inaccurate whether they will continue to appear in the magazine or online.  All I see is a bunch of lame excuses as to why that is and I think if he can't take the responsibility to make sure they're up to date and accurate, then he shouldn't be publishing them.

 

None of that has anything to do with me or my board.  If you disagree with my feedback about the maps, then I suggest you post your own.

[Guest]

There has to be a happy medium on customer expectations regarding mapping.  

I expect good initial map accuracy (better than the current level). However keeping fully up to date every single month is perhaps too much.   I don't think many maps manage that, never mind one done by a very small business (as I presume this is).

 

Initial Map Accuracy.

With GPS on phones and cameras, it should be very easy to walk around and log the position of every single gay business in somewhere like Pattaya in just over half a day. Then plot it on google maps, preferably whilst still on the street so it can be checked.  Presumably the magazine would have someone who would eventually visit all the major gay cities in Thailand.

 

Updates.

However, considering constant bar closures, to ensure the business locations are up to date every single month in at least 4 different cities is not practical, unless the publication has a willing person on the ground in each of these cities. Paying people might not be economic, after all this is not The Daily Telegraph. 

I would have no problem accepting a map with a statement on the bottom stating "Last Updated 31 July 2014".

To expect monthly updates is probably too much.

[TotallyOz]

We will agree to disagree with the definition of a business. Facebook did not make profit for many years and operated at a loss. But, like you, they are not a business either.

 

I do no disagree with your feedback of their maps.  I do disagree with the way it was said.  You must be a Yankee.  I am a refined southern gentleman.  We always try to say things in the nicest possible ways.