Racism , Alive & Well in Bangkok

[brall3]

A Black-American buddy told me about the racial discrimination he was experiencing here, especially getting a motor-taxi. I somewhat questioned this until I actually saw it happen. After the clubs closed, I walked with him to Soi Convent. When we approached the motor-taxi area, I lingered behind. To my disbelief and shock, 3 motor-taxi drivers refused to give him a ride! They pointed to the tut-tuts and taxi cabs. He slowly walked off and I approached the area and asked to be taken to the same hotel. Without hesitation I was motioned to get on the motorcycle. When I called to my buddy, the drivers said no and turned their backs to me. My buddy is a bit younger and much smaller in size than I am, so go figure. This happened on two different nights.

 

At three clubs on Soi Twilight, there was a difference in the way we were treated. We entered the clubs separately and sat near each other. Just as he had related to me, every customer in the clubs received more attention from the boys and the entire staff than he did. He even generously tipped the dancers and bought a few drinks for them and himself. I tipped no one and bought only one drink for myself, yet I received a lot more attention from the staff and more boys flirted with me than him. This really blew me away. What the F___ is this all about? I just couldn't believe this was happening in Thailand.

 

In many countries this type of behavior, blatant discrimination, would be unacceptable, if not against the law. Perhaps Thailand does not have laws against racial discrimination. To say the least, I feel bad for my buddy. He is counting the days until he leaves Thailand, and said he will never accept an assignment for Asia again. I can somewhat understand his feelings. I never thought something like this would happen in Thailand. Shame-shame for Thailand.

[NIrishGuy]

You say this like it's news, as you say above racism is unfortunately alive and well in Thailand of that there's no doubt.

[farangyai]

My personal view is that Thailand is among the most racist people I have ever been around. So what you describe is certainly not a surprise or a new observation to me. Hell, they are even racist towards their own countrymen depending on where they are from and the color of their skin so it should not be surprising that an African American would experience racism in the Land of Smiles.

  If I referred to everyone of a different race than me as a foreigner (farang), doesn't that imply racism?

[vinapu]

it was discussion about racism in Thailand while ago on SGT forum, Bucknaway resident contributor there , frequent visitor to LOS and also Black_American waded in  but I don't recall him referring to any drastic incidents like one described above.

 

Not saying that racism is not well and alive in Thailand, probably to the same  extend like everywhere else, try to be white and enter bar in some Caribbean Island , you will see kind of attention your friend received,  speaking from personal experience.

 

If Pattaya farangs  constantly are complaining about influx of Russians everywhere and Arabs invading Sunee Plaza, doesn't that imply racism? 

 

Very interesting article in The Economist from Oct 4-10 about Zambian vice-president / white / . When introduced to G.W Bush as vice -president, George  clearly thought this is a joke.  / page 58 of North -American issue / , is Bush racist too?

[mahjongguy]

In a society where even Thai people with tan skin are treated poorly, this should be no surprise.

 

Still, I have to wonder, is this an early signal of what's to come when Ebola comes to Thailand?

[vinapu]

 

 

Still, I have to wonder, is this an early signal of what's to come when Ebola comes to Thailand?

I think you hit the nail , whole problem may not be race based but product of ebola scare.

[NIrishGuy]

I assure you several of my Thai friends were racist to the bone long before Ebola raised it's ugly head, don't be fooled about that - and when pulled on this there answer more or less is "so what it's only a ( insert whatever race they were slagging off at that particular time as they have a long list  - and I'm probably on that very same list in my absence no doubt when my baht contribution isn't to be taken into consideration)

[Up2u]

Having light skin is admired and envied here. Just look at all the products that advertise lighter skin in the health and beauty sections. My bf just spent 2000 baht on skin lightening pills. He is from Issan but not particularly dark skinned. People in Bangkok often look down on the brown skinned buffaloes from Issan. Boys from Issan are my personal preference.

[vinapu]

 Boys from Issan are my personal preference.

count me in

[williewillie]

When I look at TV in Thailand, all the Thais actors are very light skinned and have farang facial features, eyes and noses.

Beauty in Thailand is white skin.

One African American man I know in Pattaya, insists baht buses don't stop for him because they think he's an Arab. Go figure

[jfarmer017]

Racism is baked into the modern DNA of Thailand. The country changed its name from Siam to Thailand in bit of ethno-nationalist fervor to privilege one ethnic group in the country over others. It is a hierarchical, class-based society where not only entire ethnic groups and races of people are socially ranked but individuals within races as well. Individuality and the celebration of individual differences are not strong characteristics of Thai society. It is a source of pride within Thailand that, unlike all her neighbors, Thailand was never occupied and colonized by a European power. And there is a good deal of ethnic tension between Thais, Burmese, and Khmers. I suspect a number of visitors to Thailand encounter the face-saving, superficial pleasantries of the people and probably mistake this for some kind of enlightened open-mindedness. 

[williewillie]

Most posters benefit as our pasty white skin is considered beautiful and even old age is

respected. Money is the great equalizer.

[a447a]

"Boys from Issan are my personal preference."

 

Mine, too!

 

I assure you several of my Thai friends were racist to the bone long before Ebola raised it's ugly head, don't be fooled about that - and when pulled on this there answer more or less is "so what it's only a ( insert whatever race they were slagging off at that particular time as they have a long list  - and I'm probably on that very same list in my absence no doubt when my baht contribution isn't to be taken into consideration)

I also get the feeling that all non-Thais are on that list. I am white-skinned and have a bit of money to splash around when I'm there, so perhaps I'm just tolerated because of that. It's hard to know what they are thinking, but I sometimes feel they consider themselves superior. I hope I'm wrong.

[NIrishGuy]

^^^ Nope, I think you're right on the money there A447 in that I believe we're all merely "tolerated" until either the money runs out or our behaviour is deemed to be so "un Thai" ( as if that's something magical that one should ever aspire to somehow anyway!) that they can stand us no more and either leave us sitting alone in bars to be ignored or at worst push us off some balcony somewhere.

 

Thankfully both my money and manners have spared me either of those fates to date but I've no illusions that their love of us and our skin etc IS only skin deep !! - but that's ok as shush but don't tell them but I just might feel exactly the same way in return about them actuslly now and also be playing exactly that same "game" in return that they are to just get what "I" want or need out of them re our "lets all smile at each other and say nothing bad about each other to the others face deal" and as long as we both continue to play our respective parts amicably and with good grace so the game will go on.......until of course one or other of us decide otherwise and then it's all over.

[brall3]

WOW! Thanks to all of you for your down to earth and eye opening replies. Members of the opposite race, seldom see these things unless someone points it out to them or via other forms of communications. I printed out your comments and showed them to my buddy. Neither one of us realized that racism in Thailand is as wide spread and as open as it is.

 

Yes, I have seen the people walking under umbrellas on hot sunny days but I thought that was to stay cool as oppose to getting darker. Life is interesting. In certain parts of the world people flock to bast in the sun because a good tan is a sign of wealth and leisure, yet here in Asia certain groups of people avoid the sun. At the hotel, on sunny days the swimming pool area is packed with non-Asians, and the Asians are at the pool at night or when the weather is cloudy. Thanks to all of you, I now understand why.

 

Like many of you have written, the best sexual encounters I have had, have been with guys from Isan. I always wondered why the guys refer to themselves as "Isan" and never refer to themselves as Thai. Now I have a better understanding of the situation. Again, thanks to all of you for you open and enlightening comments.

[Guest nothin2say]

Racism is alive throughout the world even in countries that has law against it. If it come to non-work related who really thinks about the law ? Two cents from a Asian who travels.

[firecat69]

I personally think everyone has some racism in them.   It 's when and how you control it that makes the difference.

 

I remember my first time in Capetown walking down the street at 8am an realizing I was the only white person on the street.  This went on for many blocks. Sort of gives you perspective on how African Americans feel in a white dominated country..

 

Of course racism is a lot of things besides Color.  Overall the personality traits of Thais are so different then Westerners , I am sure they look at us with first curiosity  and then disdain for some of the things we do so easily that are not acceptable in Thai Culture.

 

But I do not think the average Thai boy that we meet even thinks about that. He is thinking about getting enough money to pay for his room or iPhone.   

 

Different if you talk to people of the Middle Class or higher which many of us hardly ever do.  And this class is a very small % of the Thai population.

[pong]

IMHO Racism is mostly only in that modern western wolrd comdened-not at all in Asia, nor are most of the statements above 100% true.

EWhat is not mentioned may be of small comfort: yes, in the past black GI-men were common in TH, not anymore. What is common now are quite a few blacks from Africa living on very small expense and alas more known for other a bit illegal activities-just witness the scenes around the girlie bars Nana etc. How can those poor motocybous discrinate between all those?

[Alexx]

While I'd agree that many Thais are racist by Western standards, that's nothing that really worries me when having my daily encounters with Thais. There's no Thai equivalent of the Ku Klux Klan, after all. In the West, the pendulum has swung full-circle from one extreme (very rabid and violent forms of open racism) to another extreme (political correctness above all). The current overly PC state of affairs in the West is a consequence of its past - Thais simply lack that background.

 

It is, however, a complex matter. One might think education has a lot to do with it, but it's often the educated Thais who are the most xenophobic, at least as far as their rhetoric goes. Nationalism that doesn't go hand in hand with racism or xenophobia is rare, the world over.

[NIrishGuy]

@ pong - you ARE joking in your post above I presume about racism not existing in Asia at all, that statement is so ridiculous im not even going to waste time going over it to explain how wrong you aa as I suspect you already fully know that.

 

And as for your "how can one expect those poor motto cycles drivers" to know the difference - as im assuming you're imolyung "cause they all look the same don't they" - which again im not even going to waste time pointing out his vile that is

 

The above intentionally or not is a classic example of a (poor) trolls post and I guess I'm as bad for replying to it but I couldn't let your last comment sit without at least one of us on the board pointing out how wrong it was "for the record" - but again Im guessing you already knew all this anyway and were just looking for a reaction.

[vinapu]

I personally think everyone has some racism in them.   It 's when and how you control it that makes the difference.

 

 

sensible comment by my Indian co-worker whose daughter married happily Mexican guy against both families wishes few years ago:

 

"they were against because they were racists, we were against beacuse we prefer people of our own culture"

 

insert any other nationality / tribe / race and you have the same all over the world

[Guest chiangklang]

A Black-American buddy told me about the racial discrimination he was experiencing here, especially getting a motor-taxi. I somewhat questioned this until I actually saw it happen. After the clubs closed, I walked with him to Soi Convent. When we approached the motor-taxi area, I lingered behind. To my disbelief and shock, 3 motor-taxi drivers refused to give him a ride! They pointed to the tut-tuts and taxi cabs. He slowly walked off and I approached the area and asked to be taken to the same hotel. Without hesitation I was motioned to get on the motorcycle. When I called to my buddy, the drivers said no and turned their backs to me. My buddy is a bit younger and much smaller in size than I am, so go figure. This happened on two different nights.

 

At three clubs on Soi Twilight, there was a difference in the way we were treated. We entered the clubs separately and sat near each other. Just as he had related to me, every customer in the clubs received more attention from the boys and the entire staff than he did. He even generously tipped the dancers and bought a few drinks for them and himself. I tipped no one and bought only one drink for myself, yet I received a lot more attention from the staff and more boys flirted with me than him. This really blew me away. What the F___ is this all about? I just couldn't believe this was happening in Thailand.

 

In many countries this type of behavior, blatant discrimination, would be unacceptable, if not against the law. Perhaps Thailand does not have laws against racial discrimination. To say the least, I feel bad for my buddy. He is counting the days until he leaves Thailand, and said he will never accept an assignment for Asia again. I can somewhat understand his feelings. I never thought something like this would happen in Thailand. Shame-shame for Thailand.

Well I am from Australia, why do I pay more for everything then my Thai boyfriend, I have to site something I want to buy, then send him in to buy it for me, even if they see me with him I am gone.. up the price, what's the difference in that discrimination. Why can I not get access to my house on a government road most times when business have it choked all day unloading sh.t to their small businesses, say something and your visa is on the line..Why does my Thai boyfriend pay less for anything and everything than I do.. This list is endless.. Remember its Thailand.. just shut up.

[Guest nothin2say]

@chiangklang I think it's not just Thailand. Take Cambodia for example as a visitor I pay more to visit places than a local/some road side drink shop they will sell you water at a different price than a local. Or on the other end Singapore, some attractions they have different price for resident and visitors/if you go to their electronics plaza some sellers quotes non locals different price. I don't think any of these countries are trying to be racist but the govt choose to give their own citizens some benefits and the local vendors feels that since you are a tourist you can afford to pay at bit more.

 

I guess each country may have their take in this double pricing thing.

[a447a]

.Why does my Thai boyfriend pay less for anything and everything than I do.. .

Because, as a local, he earns less than you.

[jfarmer017]

Econ 101. As a seller, you are going to ask the highest price you believe you can get. It's only logical to quote a higher price to somebody you believe has a greater ability to pay. It's also good business to be friendlier to locals who are likely to be repeat customers than a foreigner who will probably be a one-off. I loathe haggling so primarily restrict my shopping to places where prices are marked and firm. Considering the significant difference in material prosperity between myself and the average Thai, I am certainly not going to lose any sleep over being gouged to the tune of a few dollars.