I have got my retirement

[Guest shamahan]

Just mention this for those  who wonder how recent political events effect this important aspect of staying in Thailand. The answer at the moment: it was easy and essentially nonevent. I got "proof of income"

in US Embassy in BKK and then a letter from a company where I rent my condo ( I do not have a lease yet). That was it.

[ceejay]

Congratulations! Are you planning on staying in Thailand permanently now? I got my retirement extension in January, and have been in England since April sorting things out. But, a week from now, I get on the plane on a one-way ticket to start a new life in Thailand. The start of an awfully big adventure!

[Guest abang1961]

Awesome.. what are the requirements, especially the minimum age and also the minimum sum of money..

Thanks

[Alexx]

Congratulations, shamahan, enjoy your retirement in Thailand!

 

Minimum age = 50

Minimum money = 800,000 baht in the bank, or 65,000 baht monthly income, or a combination of money in the bank and monthly income

[Guest shamahan]

Congratulations! Are you planning on staying in Thailand permanently now? I got my retirement extension in January, and have been in England since April sorting things out. But, a week from now, I get on the plane on a one-way ticket to start a new life in Thailand. The start of an awfully big adventure!

I have not decided yet. If I understand the conditions correctly, I do not need to stay in Thailand permanently. The same day I have got multi entry reentry permit, and it seems that I can go in and out as I please. Moreover, if I do not stay 90 days in Thailand in a row, I do not need to report to immigration. The initial extension of stay is for  15 monthes. At the end of this period I have to be in Thailand to apply for another 12 month extension. Correct me, if I am wrong on any of the points above.

[chillout]

Congratulations, shamahan, enjoy your retirement in Thailand!

 

Minimum age = 50

Minimum money = 800,000 baht in the bank, or 65,000 baht monthly income, or a combination of money in the bank and monthly income

Awesome! Is the approval given only for a particular number of years after which it must be renewed?

[Bob]

No, there's no need really to stay in Thailand for any given length of time; however:

(1) While this isn't currently a problem for you (you have a multi-reentry permit), everybody needs to remember that they need a reentry permit whenever they leave or their retirement visa (one-year extension based on retirement) is null and void upon exiting the country.

(2)  You don't have to do the 90-day report unless you're here 90 days in a row.  For example, if you leave the country every 89 days, you never have to do one.  Every time you re-enter Thailand, you're 90-day time period for address reporting starts anew.  For example, I just got back September 3rd so I'll have to go do my 90-day report by December 3rd (actually, I can do it 15 days before or 7 days after the date).

(3)  You have to renew your retirement visa (or, some would say, obtain a new extension of stay) before it expires.  You can do this up to 30 days prior to the expiration date.

(4)  My only concern (which may not be a real concern for you, I'm not sure) is that I have to show some proof of residency to obtain my one-year extension here in Chiangmai.  I have shown a copy of my lease in the past and that's been sufficient.  Others, I'm told, show a copy of their yellow book (or whatever it is shows they own a condo) or, I've heard, even a recent utility bill showing your name and address.  So, if  a given person is hardly ever here or only stays in hotels when one's here, I'm not sure how one could comply with this requirement (which may vary depending on where one lives in Thailand).  I do note that you said you rent a condo; if so, a copy of a current lease would certainly be sufficient anywhere.  

 

You note that you're initial extension of stay is for 15 months.  I'm guessing that you obtained a Non-Immigrant O which was good for 90 days and at the same time you obtained your one-year extension based on retirement which became effective (started) when your 90-day deal expired.  That's how I did it too in the beginning but annually you'll only get one-year extensions at a time.

 

I'm not sure if I've answered Chillout's question as it seems a bit confusing to me. 

[bkkguy]

(3)  You have to renew your retirement visa (or, some would say, obtain a new extension of stay) before it expires. 

 

I am one of those "some" though I would say you need to obtain an extension of your current permission to stay before it expires

 

I don't have a Retirement Visa (Non-OA), I have a Non-O Visa and it expired 10 years ago and there is no procedure that I know of at an embassy or consulate overseas or at an Immigration Police office in Thailand to renew or extend a visa be it a Non-OA, a Non-O or any other visa class

 

my current permission to stay expires in May 2015 and when I go to the Immigration Police office next May I will fill out a TM7 form  "APPLICATION FOR EXTENSION OF TEMPORARY STAY IN THE KINGDOM" and in the reason for extension I will state "Retirement" and produce the necessary supporting documentation. The officer will then stamp a new permission to stay till May 2016 into my passport

 

I would argue that the distinction between a visa and a permission to stay is important and if people understand the distinction and use the correct terminology then fewer forum threads would descend into confusion and misunderstanding. the same applies to the distinction between a Retirement Visa (Non-OA) and an extension of permission to stay based on retirement using a Non-O visa. others (not necessarily you) claim that this is just being pedantic and it does not matter what you call things - I don't really understand this line of reasoning!

 

similarly re your point 1 - a "retirement" visa does not become "null and void" when you leave the country, it or any other class of visa becomes null and void when you have used all permitted entries into the country or the expiry date has passed. if you have a multi-entry Non-OA Retirement Visa valid till 1 January 2015 and a current permission to stay till 1 December 2015 you don't need a re-entry permit if you plan to exit and return before 1 January 2015 (you will get a new permission to stay of 12 months from date of arrival), you do need a re-entry permit if you plan to exit and return after 1 January  before 1 December 2015 (you will get a permission to stay of 1 December 2015 on arrival), and you do not need a re-entry permit if you plan to exit and return after 1 December 2015 (you will need a new visa). if you have a single entry Non-O visa valid till 1 September 2014 and a current permission to stay till 1 December 2015 you do need a re-entry permit if you plan to exit and return before 1 December 2015 (you will get a permission to stay of 1 December 2015 on arrival), and you do not need a re-entry permit if you plan to exit and return after 1 December 2015 (you will need a new visa).

 

again I would argue that people need to understand how re-entry permits work in relation to visas and permissions to stay. wile I know you where talking about a specific case I think your statement is inherently confusing, and I don't think "everybody needs to remember that they need a reentry permit whenever they leave or their retirement visa (one-year extension based on retirement) is null and void upon exiting the country" really helps people understand how things work

 

from the responses of various posters here and other gay forums I am obviously flogging a dead horse on this but anyone who regularly reads threads in any forum on these issues, particularly including the "Thai visas, residency and work permits" forum on ThaiVisa, will I think quickly agree that correct terminology reduces confusion dramatically

 

bkkguy

 

 

 

[Guest]

Minimum money = 800,000 baht in the bank, or 65,000 baht monthly income, or a combination of money in the bank and monthly income

 

Finding a lump sum of 800,000 is pretty modest for anyone who's been working in any reasonably well paid job.   After all, that's only saving £510 a year for 30 years. 

Moving it all into cash is slightly more inconvenient.  I suppose they would insist this is strictly in cash, rather than stocks & shares or other assets?

[ceejay]

Moving it all into cash is slightly more inconvenient.  I suppose they would insist this is strictly in cash, rather than stocks & shares or other assets?

Yes, it has to be in cash, in a Thai bank and must be in an instant access account. For the first extension, it must have been in the account for at least the 60 days immediately prior to the application. For subsequent extensions, that becomes 90 days.

[Bob]

I would argue that the distinction between a visa and a permission to stay is important and if people understand the distinction and use the correct terminology then fewer forum threads would descend into confusion and misunderstanding. the same applies to the distinction between a Retirement Visa (Non-OA) and an extension of permission to stay based on retirement using a Non-O visa. others (not necessarily you) claim that this is just being pedantic and it does not matter what you call things - I don't really understand this line of reasoning!

 

Correct terminology in some situations is indeed preferred; on the other hand, as long as there is no confusion, insistence on the "expert falang" terminology sometimes baffles me. 

 

Nobody that I know of that has what the experts call a "one-year extension based on retirement" calls it anything other than a retirement visa....and none of us are confused by the terminology.  And I refer to the "expert falang" terminology as it's typically only those "experts" who get their feathers bunched up when another falang doesn't follow the specified words.

 

As I've noted elsewhere, I asked a couple of immigration officers whether my stamp (the one that allows me to stay here for another year) is a "retirement visa" or an "extension of stay."  The first officer responded "same same."  After hearing that, I mentioned that some falang get a bit irritated when other falang refer to it as a "retirement visa" versus an "extension of stay." Both officers chuckled while the second officer said "falang baa" (and he made it clear he wasn't referring to me).   

[Up2u]

I agree with Bob. And Bkkguy is right, a farang should understand his entry visa has been extended to stay for one year for the purpose of retirement but the reality is retirement visa is a well understood terminology when visiting immigration. The immigration staff understand this and even the immigration signage says "retirement visa".

[Bob]

A lot of the disagreement stems from some people's terminology of what a "visa" really is or isn't.  Some say it's permission to enter a country, others say it's both permission to enter and permission to stay, and others say it's simply a permission to stay.  Immigration (or at least the officers I've talked to) think of it as permission to stay or be here.

 

For those who only ascribe to the first definition (a visa is only permission to enter), I obtained years ago a Non-Immigrant O (90-day) visa (and, yes, that's exactly what the stamp is labelled) at immigration here in Thailand after being here for a month on a Tourist Visa issued in the US.  So I'd guess that particular immigration office subscribes to the second or third definition only.

 

I hear tourists all the time say they obtained a "30-day visa" at the airport.  I understand what they are saying and have no need at all to carp at them that "No you don't!  You don't have a visa at all.  What you have is an exemption." 

[Guest shamahan]

 

my current permission to stay expires in May 2015 and when I go to the Immigration Police office next May I will fill out a TM7 form  "APPLICATION FOR EXTENSION OF TEMPORARY STAY IN THE KINGDOM" and in the reason for extension I will state "Retirement" and produce the necessary supporting documentation. The officer will then stamp a new permission to stay till May 2016 into my passport

 

I would argue that the distinction between a visa and a permission to stay is important and if people understand the distinction and use the correct terminology then fewer forum threads would descend into confusion and misunderstanding.

bkkguy

And what is the practical difference? You are on extension to stay ,anyway, and I see no difference.

From practical standpoint, there are some issues and I would like to solicit the opinion of experts.

1. I have a colleague in one of the major Thai Universities whom I visit regularly. He usually pays for my hotel from his research grant.

I told him that I will pay myself next time. I want to be on the safe side but what is really permitted for people on retirement visa in Thailand?

2. Today I opened banking account in Bangkok Bank. I was surprised that the staff seems to be unaware of the Bangkok Bank branch in New York and the corresponding route for the money transfer and they suggested a swift route. I did it in the branch near Alcazar. I know that there is another branch in Northern Pattaya. But what is the procedure? I hope Up2 or other Pattaya expert will comment on that. I started the procedure for the Dollar account too. Is it possible to arrange transfers to Dollar account through the New York branch?

Thanks.

[Guest shamahan]

 

(4)  My only concern (which may not be a real concern for you, I'm not sure) is that I have to show some proof of residency to obtain my one-year extension here in Chiangmai.  I have shown a copy of my lease in the past and that's been sufficient.  Others, I'm told, show a copy of their yellow book (or whatever it is shows they own a condo) or, I've heard, even a recent utility bill showing your name and address.  So, if  a given person is hardly ever here or only stays in hotels when one's here, I'm not sure how one could comply with this requirement (which may vary depending on where one lives in Thailand).  I do note that you said you rent a condo; if so, a copy of a current lease would certainly be sufficient anywhere.  

 

 

 From what I can see on SIAM legal website and what Russians advertise here in Pattaya, there is no legal requirement to show the proof of residency. I talked to German volunteer in Immigration and he told me that at the moment they do require some proof and consequently I produced the letter from the rental company. It is difficult to say what will be required 15 months down the road. The easiest thing would be to purchase a condo. I am not very keen on that, since (unlike what many people think), I consider the current situation in Thailand as highly unstable.

[Guest shamahan]

I initiated the linkage to my CharlesSchwab account but how will I recognize the trial deposits? They will be posted in Thai baht!

[Guest shamahan]

I have another question for Pattaya expats. I noticed that DHL office in Jomtien complex has mailboxes . Does it make sense

to get one,say, for international correspondence?

[Up2u]

I initiated the linkage to my CharlesSchwab account but how will I recognize the trial deposits? They will be posted in Thai baht!

You must contact (call) your Thai bank, and request the deposit amounts in USD. I monitor my Thai bank accounts online. The number for Bangkok Bank is 1333.

[Up2u]

I have another question for Pattaya expats. I noticed that DHL office in Jomtien complex has mailboxes . Does it make sense

to get one,say, for international correspondence?

Talk to people in your building. I don't think DHL is necessary. In my building, I am notified of international mail and I must go to our business office and sign for it.

[Guest shamahan]

Thanks!

[bkkguy]

Both officers chuckled while the second officer said "falang baa" (and he made it clear he wasn't referring to me).   

 

the officers on the front information desk at the Immigration Division 1 office in Bangkok have a "falang baa" attitude as well - they tend to ignore falung that ask for non-existant forms to extend their retirement visa, instead they check what you need from your passport and give you the correct form

 

And Bkkguy is right, a farang should understand his entry visa has been extended to stay for one year

 

you are not supporting my argument here but you may be supporting Bob's - my statement above was a visa cannot be extended or renewed, but there is obviously no confusion in your mind and everybody understands you

 

A lot of the disagreement stems from some people's terminology of what a "visa" really is or isn't.  Some say it's permission to enter a country, others say it's both permission to enter and permission to stay, and others say it's simply a permission to stay.  Immigration (or at least the officers I've talked to) think of it as permission to stay or be here.

 

A man who buys a gun to protect his family sees it as a weapon for self defense, a bank robber or soldier with a gun sees it differently but this does not cause them to confuse a gun with something else. Similarly consular officials at embassies, Immigration Police at border checkpoints and Immigration Police at Immigration offices all deal with visas in different ways for different reasons but they don't have a problem differentiating between a visa and a permission to stay stamp and I don't really see why it is so difficult for some falung, particularly retired falung on discussion forums, to come to grips with this!

 

"I am going to do my retirement extension" is no more difficult to say then "I am going to renew my retirement visa" yet it seems to be anathema to some people, almost on principle

 

bkkguy

[Alexx]

I initiated the linkage to my CharlesSchwab account but how will I recognize the trial deposits? They will be posted in Thai baht!

You can set up SMS notifications for incoming wire transfers (these include ACH transfers via Bangkok Bank NYC); the SMS messages you'll receive will show both the USD and the THB amount. If you cannot get that set up before the verification deposits arrive, you can call Bangkok Bank's call center instead to get them to tell you the USD amounts.

[bkkguy]

A lot of the disagreement stems from some people's terminology of what a "visa" really is or isn't.  Some say it's permission to enter a country, others say it's both permission to enter and permission to stay, and others say it's simply a permission to stay.  Immigration (or at least the officers I've talked to) think of it as permission to stay or be here.

 

I forgot to say in my post above that your basic assumption here is flawed - once again the disagreement stems from the fact that "some people" don't understand what a visa really is and how the system works!

 

for Thailand a visa is neither a permission to enter the country, a permission to stay in the country, or a combination of both!

 

the rules and regulations governing the issue of visas at embassies and consulates outside of Thailand, and the enforcement of those rules and regulations, is the responsibility of the Foreign Ministry. The rules and regulations governing entry to the country, permission to stay and the issue of visas inside Thailand, and the enforcement of those rules and regulations, is the responsibility of the Interior Ministry via the Immigration Police.

 

this is an import distinction because Immigration Police at a border entry checkpoint can grant or refuse entry to the country and/or grant a standard or shorter permission to stay based on their assessment of the circumstances surrounding your current entry into the country - the visa you may or may not have in your passport is just one of the pieces of information used to make that decision

 

simply put a visa is a confirmation of your stated reason for being in the country, the number of times you can attempt to enter the country using the visa, and the last day on which you can attempt to enter the country using the visa

 

again people will accuse me of just being pedantic but anyone who has followed immigration issues here over the last few years will know that the two departments are rarely consistent with their policies or their enforcement and while most "legitimate" tourists and retirees are not usually affected many seduced by the dark side of borderline or blatant workarounds of policies and enforcement get burnt regularly

 

and I think you need to expand the selection of Immigration Police that you talk to or perhaps try asking different questions!

 

bkkguy

[Up2u]

..........

 

 

you are not supporting my argument here but you may be supporting Bob's - my statement above was a visa cannot be extended or renewed, but there is obviously no confusion in your mind and everybody understands you........

 

 

 

Well, I thought I was, now I don't know. My original entry tourist visa was converted to a Non-immigrant O which has been extended for the purpose of retirement(for many years). My friend's original entry visa, non-immigrant OA, has been extended for the purpose of retirement for several years now.

When I go to immigration and my documents are first screened, I confirm the question I am here for my retirement visa, at no time is the word retirement extension used by staff until the words "extended" are stamped in my passport. That said, people should understand that they are not getting a visa when they renew but a one year extension.

[Guest shamahan]

I am currently staying in a condo in Central Pattaya and I really like the location. Unfortunately, it is pricey: I pay for studio 30000baht per month. I consider to relocate in the area of Jomtien. In particular, I checked Jomtien complex and I can get for the same amount two bedroom appartment. It is also quite lovely currently over there with all bars etc. Two things bother me somewhat: noise and security concerns. It looks like bulglary in Jomtien complex is not out of question. I would appreciate comments on this location. I would be willing to look at other options and advice in this respect highly appreciated.