How Thais are showing a gratitude ?

[vinapu]

At times we are  reporting  on the boys requesting more money than offered but certainly reverse situations happen when we tip boy more that he could expect, either because we were happy , we offer parting bonus  or we did not know what rate is.

 

What is boy's reaction in such a case from your experiences.

 

It happened to me quite a few times and other than higher wai  on occasion  I did not notice any big reaction. I wonder if that is cultural norm not to show a gratitude , shrewdness on boy's side / if I don't show I 'm happy next time he gives me even more?  / or something else.

 

I'm curious if that's just my luck  or some cultural norm.

 

And no , we are not talking about 100 baht extra tip  but something substantial  like 1000.

 

To be fair my first ever Thai boy back in 2001 tipped long rate for short time / I did not know difference then, / actually jumped into air , wai me higher than would King and screamed of joy but it was first and last such reaction I saw.  

[firecat69]

Pretty sure it is an individual thing. My favorite in Pattaya this time I gave him 1500 extra our last session as a bonus. He was so appreciative that I hated myself for not giving him more. I went to the ATM later in the days and got some more and called him up and asked him to come over to say good bye. He was at my door in 10 minutes . I gave him the extra and told him I would see him in October.

 

His reaction was all you could want . It really is not that much money for me but for him it means a lot.

 

He was worth every baht and pro-rated over the 10 times I saw him , it amounts to quite an increase in per session cost but I left town feeling really good because I made him so happy.

[a447a]

"I left town feeling really good because I made him so happy"

 

That's what it's really all about. It's a very important part of the overall experience.

[pong]

no/yes, its mostly national-asian. has (IMHO) much more to do with that its looked at as bad habits to show too much of emotion. Also-just money is not the most important thing to buy gratitude-sustained longer commitment to that guy more likely is. In fact many guys may be embarrassed by too large gifts: as its also part of the culture that you have to ''payback'' that sooner or later-putting him in an impossible situation, that he has been bought as a slave. Have had several thankyou's ((appreciation if you talk american) in other ways- much more enjoyable.  Again mostly a case of cultural misunderstandings.

[vinapu]

no/yes, its mostly national-asian. has (IMHO) much more to do with that its looked at as bad habits to show too much of emotion.

this would explain what I observed

[Alexx]

I think from a cultural point of view, there are two aspects.

 

Firstly, like pong wrote, giving someone more than (what they think is) their due means that they might feel indebted to you. I write "might", because it certainly wears off in those people who often receive - or in some cases even demand - gifts.

 

Secondly, a good deed is considered beneficial for the benefactor's karma, so their reward comes automatically and is granted by the universe itself. Compared to that gift of good karma, any form of gratitude shown by the beneficiary would pale anyway, which might explain why it's not seen as all that important.

 

I've often noticed Thais dealing with Thais not showing gratitude when receiving a gift. When they are dealing with foreigners AND know what foreigners expect, it's often different.

[Guest LoveThailand]

Thank you, Pong and Alex for insights.

[TotallyOz]

On expressions, it does vary. I was returning to the USA recently through Atlanta and had a man working in the luggage be my "porter" for helping. He got all my bags for me. When we started to leave customs, they picked me for a through check. This happens to me often.

 

The man stayed with me for over an hour. When the customs guys destroyed my packing, and they did mess things up and just left things on their table, the guy went over to repack everything and zip things up for me.

 

He was so very nice and kind. He was also a bit older than me. So, once through, I gave him a 100 USD tip and he started to cry and hugged me. He was so appreciate. It made his day and he made mine!

 

In Brazil, I always tip big my first day or two at the sauna. The boys hear of this and I always have a slew of boys wanting to spend some time with me in a cabine.

 

In Thailand, I also feel that tipping is good business if you wish to see someone again. I have given OK tips and I have given great tips and they have always seemed appreciated and the guys have always been very sweet. Often, I get a bit more of kiss goodbye as the kiss will say, "goodbye and hello again soon I hope."

 

One guy who worked in a beer bar in Sunnee went with me. He was with me less than 5 min and the chemistry was just not good. So, I gave him a 500 baht goodbye tip. When I returned to that bar, the boys said, "oh Michael. You tipped this boy 500 baht. He must have been really really bad." I laughed as he was and I was not upset with it but they knew for me to tip someone so little that he must have been bad.

 

What is very little money to most of us, is a great deal to a Thai boy and they are often very happy to have money for rent, mama's surgery, or the link. Yes, I know we hear a lot of BS stories but many are also true and the boys have life problems to deal with.

 

Tipping has often gotten me into trouble on the boards as I have been told I tip too much. My response is I always pay the going rate for the area. I'll then tip additionally whatever I feel like doing. My normal response after a short time is, "here is the money for sex.(money handed to boy) Here is some money for taxi. (money handed to boy) Here is money for you to buy a present. (Money handed to boy)." I find that this really does tell them I have given them what was expected and any additional may or may not be given in the future. This has always served me well everything. I do the same for Brazil and the USA and Canada or anywhere I travel and see a money boy.

 

Reactions vary.

[vinapu]

 a good deed is considered beneficial for the benefactor's karma, so their reward comes automatically and is granted by the universe itself. Compared to that gift of good karma, any form of gratitude shown by the beneficiary would pale anyway, which might explain why it's not seen as all that important.

 

I've often noticed Thais dealing with Thais not showing gratitude when receiving a gift. When they are dealing with foreigners AND know what foreigners expect, it's often different.

I'm glad I asked the question and feel much wiser now.

 

Coming from the culture when one is expected to show gratitude even if not really happy with what's received I was puzzled  on few occasion by lack of enthusiasm  from beneficiary boys  side, suspected it may be cultural thing and it seems I was right as per  pongs and Alexx inputs.

 

Got my further confirmation  watching Gthai movie part 2 "Massage Boys" this morning and there's scene when boy receives 6000 baht tip from rich Thai customer and also shows very  restrained reaction ,  smiling only after client left.

 

 / No  I never tipped that much , 3000 is being my absolute maximum for long time but on few occasion doubled requested or bargained tip and did it for a good reason IMHO/

 

I like Michel 's system and will start using it  from now on if need arises - here's your tip and here's your gift from me because you are an angel. Do not count on royalties from me though, Michael.

 

This is better than what I was doing so far as  my system could create unreasonable expectations, now I start understanding why one of my November boys out of blue  demanded 5000 for long time. I tipped his co-worker over the odds few times and possibly he thought  ' here's a sucker ', unfortunately for him to no avail.

[vinapu]

tipping has often gotten me into trouble on the boards as I have been told I tip too much. 

Subject of excessive tips and accusations of spoiling market for others never dries . 

 

In my opinion big tippers are spoiling sex  market no more than Starbucks clients paying 5$  for a coffee are spoiling coffee market for Coffee Time clients paying 1.50 $.

 

So I wouldn't  worry if somebody is throwing mud at you for paying too much , it's friendly way of telling you that sofa-bed you purchased for 1000 could be had for 500 if you tried harder and it's your decision which one will give you better sleep.

[kokopelli]

On expressions, it does vary. I was returning to the USA recently through Atlanta and had a man working in the luggage be my "porter" for helping. He got all my bags for me. When we started to leave customs, they picked me for a through check. This happens to me often.

 

 

 

 

 

If you wish to avoid this hassle apply for Global Entry.  Kind of a messy application process but, if I could mange it, then a snap for you.

Of course there is a chance you could be rejected! Also if you get Global Entry you will also qualify for Trusted Traveler if you don't already have that. This puts you in the fast and easy lane for Security Check with TSA.

[TotallyOz]

If you wish to avoid this hassle apply for Global Entry.  Kind of a messy application process but, if I could mange it, then a snap for you.

Of course there is a chance you could be rejected! Also if you get Global Entry you will also qualify for Trusted Traveler if you don't already have that. This puts you in the fast and easy lane for Security Check with TSA.

Global Entry is great to get through. But, it is always the secondary stop that gets me when they see how many bags I have.

[kokopelli]

Global Entry is great to get through. But, it is always the secondary stop that gets me when they see how many bags I have.

Are you saying you have Global Entry?  Normally after using the Global Entry Kiosk at Immigration , you are given a "slip"  at the kiosk to present to Customs who then waive your through..  What do you bring back from Thailand that invokes such suspicion. A buoy in a bag? 

[Guest joeblo]

 

He was worth every baht and pro-rated over the 10 times I saw him , it amounts to quite an increase in per session cost but I left town feeling really good because I made him so happy.

While your ego may be well fed, it is probably this type of activity that has caused many money-boys to go up on their demands with regard to what they charge.  The market responds to these over the top gifts in a way that is not good for the consumer.

[Guest joeblo]

 

Tipping has often gotten me into trouble on the boards as I have been told I tip too much.

Reactions vary.

Regardless of your attempt to explain your over the top "gifts" it does screw things up for those of us who are not as wealthy.

[TotallyOz]

Regardless of your attempt to explain your over the top "gifts" it does screw things up for those of us who are not as wealthy.

Your opinion only. I have been hiring for many years. 10 years ago in NYC, the average is still about the same as today. 10 years in Thailand and the average paid is about the same. Brazil, more than 10 years and it is about the same in most places or maybe 5 or 10 USD more.

 

I am not sure what kind of job you have, but I would not be working in any job that does not have good pay increases over the years. I think the rates are about the same as they were years ago. That does not change based on a few over the top tippers. In face, it has the opposite effect. It allows those like you who do not wish to tip as much the luxury of having the boys available as they can eat and pay rent. Good for you. Good for me. Good for the boys. No?

[Bob]

Michael, I happen to disagree and agree with Joeblo's comments.

 

On the one hand, I resent the hell out of anybody telling me or anyone else how much I should tip, that I tip too much, or, worst of all, the really lame (my opinion) occasional comment on the boards that "you're ruining it for the rest of us!"  So, in my view, it's none of Joeblo's or anybody else's business as to how much you, me or anyone else tips. I probably tip more than average but that's because I choose to do it and it's nobody else's business.

 

On the other hand, I don't have a habit of dropping information about how much I paid for something, how much I tipped somebody, what 5-star hotel I stayed in, how many gabillion suitcases I have, etc., etc.  Your intent may be purely innocent but providing that kind of information oftentimes doesn't come across very well.  But, as they say, up to you.   

[TotallyOz]

Michael, I happen to disagree and agree with Joeblo's comments.

 

On the one hand, I resent the hell out of anybody telling me or anyone else how much I should tip, that I tip too much, or, worst of all, the really lame (my opinion) occasional comment on the boards that "you're ruining it for the rest of us!"  So, in my view, it's none of Joeblo's or anybody else's business as to how much you, me or anyone else tips. I probably tip more than average but that's because I choose to do it and it's nobody else's business.

 

On the other hand, I don't have a habit of dropping information about how much I paid for something, how much I tipped somebody, what 5-star hotel I stayed in, how many gabillion suitcases I have, etc., etc.  Your intent may be purely innocent but providing that kind of information oftentimes doesn't come across very well.  But, as they say, up to you.

I do know that you are not alone in your opinion. Like you, I just happen to disagree. When I read a travel report, I like to get the details. It is not about how much or how little someone spends, but it does give others a good idea of what someone who wishes to plan a trip that is similar will spend.

 

I don't expect everyone that reads any of my reports to stay in the same hotels, etc. but I do find value in that information. You, being an expat that lives in Thailand, do not find the information relevant for yourself. That is OK. But, for those that might want to make a similar trip, I think some will find the details interesting.

 

Since I have been posting on this board, I have tried my best not to give details of how much I pay or tip for boys services. I do however give hotels, restaurants, bar fees, etc. You may find all of that info useless. I am not offended by anyone who finds it useless. However, I know there are some that find the information relevant to them. And, regardless of how it may come across, I keep posting and contributing.

[vinapu]

While your ego may be well fed, it is probably this type of activity that has caused many money-boys to go up on their demands with regard to what they charge.  The market responds to these over the top gifts in a way that is not good for the consumer.

Boys as self -employed professionals have the same right like everybody else to charge whatever market will bear. Without upping prices they may not actually have an idea as of what they possibly can charge.

 

Prices  too low for any goods will empty shelves as goods are available for everybody, imagine bar with off fee of 50 baht and tip expected   of 100. First client to enter would off everybody for an orgy and you will be left drinking alone with designated ugly mamasan on duty.

 

Prices  to high - everybody will start looking for an alternative and will  realize that wanking to free copy of Desire magazine is quite pleasurable / this is what a bit upset mamasan at Hotmale told me when I told him I will not be offing anybody that day /

 

As for massaging ego  - no price is too low if done skillfully so why boy should be not compensated for lying how handsome we are and how big our dick is.

 

If we one feels  better by bargaining price  down why to deny other guy pleasure of feeling better   by throwing some money away?

 

In great scheme of things market price will stay where is supposed to be and neither cheap charlies nor fools parting with money will distort it much.

[Bob]

As a matter of fairness, Michael, there was nothing in my post that expressly or impliedly suggested that the information is "useless."  But perhaps I could re-phrase part of what I said by simply noting that my favorite wealthy friends are those who don't feel the need to continually remind me of their status. 

[vinapu]

Regardless of your attempt to explain your over the top "gifts" it does screw things up for those of us who are not as wealthy.

Rich people sleep in Conrad or Dusit Thani, poor ones in Niagara or Malaysia and as long as there are alternatives we all can have good vacations.

 

Wealthy people with their Rolexes are not screwing price of fakes in Patpong market, those are two separate markets.

 

How many of those complaining about high prices in soi Twilight are actually walking 10 minutes to take advantage of much cheaper alternatives in soi 6 where Golden Cock is?

[TotallyOz]

I could re-phrase part of what I said by simply noting that my favorite wealthy friends are those who don't feel the need to continually remind me of their status.

LOL If your friends don't travel with 15 bags perhaps you are hanging out with the wrong wealthy friends.

[vinapu]

 but I would not be working in any job that does not have good pay increases over the years.

many , many people all over the world are working in industries where pay did not increase ether nominal or by purchasing power.

 

With time progressing it looks that top earners are grabbing bigger and  bigger share of pie, lucky those in that position. 

 

If CEO is making say 100 times of lower clerk's salary and 20 years  ago  ratio was 25-1 does anybody really believe that today's CEO is 4 times smarter or is working 4 times as hard as his  predecessor 20 years ago.

 

This is my general comment and not directed at you Michael or anybody else for that matter.

[vinapu]

LOL If your friends don't travel with 15 bags perhaps you are hanging out with the wrong wealthy friends.

lady begging on street in front of our office had 8 bags with her this morning. I don't think it makes her wealthy or even middle class

[TotallyOz]

vinapu, I agree with your comments. The sad thing is that while the boys wages are not going in the money boy venues, their cost of living still increases. Rents have gone up. Food has gone up. Taxes have gone up. It takes more to pull yourself out of poverty than it did for me. I grew up very poor and knew that the only way out of poverty was an education. I was lucky that I was able to pick a good school, get scholarships and work 60 hours a week to pay for school to help me in my future. I don't know many who can do that these days. Esp. in the USA.

 

But, even in Thailand, if you look at the boys in the bars, they are not going to get rich off of their jobs. They may make better if they are offed multiple times per week but heck, if a boy makes 15k per month and then pays all his expenses, he is left with very little.